--- Day changed Mon Jan 22 2018 00:08 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 00:11 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 00:12 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:17 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 00:18 -!- Linox [5ee132d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.225.50.214] has joined #lightning-dev 00:19 -!- Linox is now known as Guest18623 00:19 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 00:33 -!- daouzo23 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #lightning-dev 00:39 -!- athator [~mhluc@2.29.103.208] has joined #lightning-dev 00:42 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 00:45 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 00:48 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has joined #lightning-dev 00:50 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:50 < xocite> Hi. Please reroute me if the wrong place to ask. I've configured a Lightning Node to connect to mainnet using c-lightning. What are the usual methods to confirm it's operational and visible from outside without opening a channel? 00:51 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 00:58 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 01:00 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 01:00 < fronti> this will be the same methods like in the testnet.. port reachable from outside? 01:04 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 01:14 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@240f:d:e193:1:81ec:aa09:8b76:4491] has joined #lightning-dev 01:16 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 01:17 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 01:21 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 01:23 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33 -!- DanielMycelium [~kvirc@91.114.24.1] has joined #lightning-dev 01:40 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:41 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 01:47 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49 -!- alfa [uid11513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwcfdbhltqiasmlh] has joined #lightning-dev 01:55 -!- g00ner [5afe158b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.254.21.139] has joined #lightning-dev 01:55 -!- g00ner [5afe158b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.254.21.139] has quit [Client Quit] 02:12 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:e86f:b3:87c3:276d] has joined #lightning-dev 02:19 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@079-170-138-254-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43 -!- sapakus [49567e8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.86.126.141] has joined #lightning-dev 03:02 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 03:25 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 03:34 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@240f:d:e193:1:81ec:aa09:8b76:4491] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:50 < xocite> fronti: thanks. Looking at the logs while using netcat confirms that the port is open when pinging the IPv4 address. However, I don't see lightning_gossip listening via netstat on IPv4 so how could this be happening? It is listening on IPv6, however. 03:51 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@KD111103034253.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 03:52 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 03:53 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@KD111103034253.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58 -!- alfa [uid11513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwcfdbhltqiasmlh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:17 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:21 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:30 -!- suppu [cb81fcf6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.129.252.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 04:33 -!- Guest18623 [5ee132d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.225.50.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:50 -!- pj_ [7e4b79fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.126.75.121.252] has joined #lightning-dev 04:50 -!- pj_ [7e4b79fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.126.75.121.252] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker closed pull request #340: BOLT 3: note that key derivation test vectors apply to HTLC keys too. (master...bolt3-note-tests-apply-to-htlckey) https://git.io/vb9e5 04:59 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker closed pull request #350: BOLT 7: timestamp must be a UNIX timestamp. (master...timestamp-is-unix-time) https://git.io/vNIcR 05:01 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker closed pull request #357: transactions: fix broken anchor links (master...broken-links) https://git.io/vNWlM 05:02 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker closed pull request #359: Make links to BOLTs relative (master...201801_trivial_fixes) https://git.io/vN4nh 05:39 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 05:41 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 05:48 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 05:50 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 06:08 -!- sstone 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[49567e8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.86.126.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:16 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has joined #lightning-dev 09:17 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:19 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:46 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lightning-dev 10:08 -!- bobby77564 [2d3f1d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.63.29.96] has joined #lightning-dev 10:09 < bobby77564> Here's a few cryptocurrencies I invested in that made me $265,000 with a small investment https://tinyurl.com/yad8khq9 10:10 -!- athator1 [~mhluc@213.152.161.35] has joined #lightning-dev 10:12 -!- athator [~mhluc@2.29.103.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17 -!- BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt 10:17 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@mail.bluematt.me] has quit [Changing host] 10:17 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has joined #lightning-dev 10:17 -!- alfa [uid11513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zswmtkueoeybrkok] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:20 -!- athator1 [~mhluc@213.152.161.35] has left #lightning-dev [] 10:21 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31 -!- bobby77564 [2d3f1d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.63.29.96] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:33 -!- freerk [5882797d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.130.121.125] has joined #lightning-dev 10:42 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:57 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:59 -!- jb55 [~jb55@d108-172-210-7.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01 -!- jb55 [~jb55@d108-172-210-7.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:05 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:06 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 11:11 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vNVTS 11:11 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- lightning-rfc/master b547854 Rusty Russell: BOLT 11: require valid UTF-8, provide example.... 11:11 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- lightning-rfc/master f360cff Rusty Russell: BOLT 11: spell out byte limit on `d` field, and note vagueness of `h`.... 11:11 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- lightning-rfc/master 7a7db36 Rusty Russell: BOLT 11: make example separate, not re-use existing.... 11:13 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:14 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] cdecker pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vNVkR 11:14 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- lightning-rfc/master 46c454c Pierre-Marie Padiou: clarify that nodes may support early mutual close 11:16 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:18 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:19 < ianthius> Do any of the three implementations allow the creation of unbalanced channels yet? E.g. if a store wants to start accepting LN transactions they will need people to either spend money on the lighthing network to get a channel with ability to be paid.. or they will need to have people open direct channels with them, correct? 11:25 -!- ianthius [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33 -!- ianthius [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has joined #lightning-dev 11:33 -!- ianthius [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has left #lightning-dev [] 11:34 -!- ianthius [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has joined #lightning-dev 11:34 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:35 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has joined #lightning-dev 11:36 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has joined #lightning-dev 11:38 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39 < lxer> ianthius: I think that opening a channel means creating a balance between 2 users. so I dont see what a unbalanced channel means 11:40 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 11:41 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42 < lxer> What is the format for the data in a QRcode? is this correct: lightning:lntb1u1pdxv0pxpp5k3jrf525rq...etc 11:42 < waxwing> i was wondering about that too; if "unbalanced channel" means channel has most of the balance on one side, then unbalanced channel creation is the default way it works right now (for all impl? i think) 11:43 < waxwing> lxer, that's a payment request for testnet i believe; see https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/master/11-payment-encoding.md 11:43 < waxwing> is "payment request" and "invoice" the same thing? i believe so 11:44 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:46 < AndyS2> I read somewhere that channels are funded by one person by default. If that person starts paying the person he opened a channel with instantly, it can instantly become as balanced as the creator wants, though. Let's say I want a pizza. Instead of creating a channel with 5000 BTC in it, I create one with 10000 BTC in it, and transfer 5000 to the pizza place after channel creation. 50/50 channel ... 11:47 < AndyS2> ... right there. 11:48 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:52 -!- capa66 [capa66@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/capa66] has joined #lightning-dev 11:52 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:57 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:58 < waxwing> yes sure. but ianthius question was "do impls. allow creation of unbalanced channels" which i couldn't parse, seemed the opposite way round. 11:59 -!- aproc [~aproc@2605:6000:e503:8300:440d:4050:fcb1:1eb0] has joined #lightning-dev 12:02 -!- aproc [~aproc@2605:6000:e503:8300:440d:4050:fcb1:1eb0] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:04 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 12:08 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:13 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:14 -!- jb55 [~jb55@d108-172-210-7.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:16 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 12:18 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 12:18 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 12:19 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.162.218] has joined #lightning-dev 12:20 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 12:30 -!- fixone [5669c0b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.105.192.177] has joined #lightning-dev 12:31 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:36 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:39 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.162.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40 < fixone> is the "connected": false in getpeers impeding the operation of a channel that is in "CHANNELD_NORMAL" state? 12:41 < fixone> and if it does, what's the recommended way to connect it? restart lightningd? 12:46 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:51 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55 < ianthius> waxwing: yes, i worded it poorly. What I am wondering is essentially this: the implementation we have setup today makes it difficult to open a webstore that accepts lightning funds. Because, either the customer needs to open a channel directly to you, OR the store needs to have opened channels previously and paid funds OUT to then have available channel space to recieve payments from people who 12:55 < ianthius> don't have a channel directly with them. 12:57 < ianthius> lxer: currently channel creation has all the balance on the creators side. 12:58 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogwamnltuwbbzzoq] has joined #lightning-dev 12:58 < ianthius> e.g if blockstream hadn't had folks open channels with their node they wouldn't have been able to accept all those payments.. 12:58 < waxwing> ah ok ianthius, i get what you mean. i'm still wrapping my head around this stuff; perhaps there is some other mechanism one could use, don't know. 12:59 < fixone> ianthius: as long as both you (the store) and the user have each a channel opened and the two are routable (there's a path from the user to the store through nodes with enough balance), there's no need to have a direct connection 12:59 < fixone> just to exist a path between the two, that's my understanding 12:59 < ianthius> fixone: that is not true 13:00 < ianthius> all channels currently (to my understading) are created with the balance on the side of the opener 13:00 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:00 < fixone> when they are created, yes; but then the restriction that I stated (about enough balance) does not hold 13:01 < fixone> after they are created and there's a bit of movement 13:02 < fixone> the whole point being that one can find a path from the user through the store such that the amount to be paid by the user is, in each node in the path, "available" 13:02 -!- ianthius_ [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has joined #lightning-dev 13:02 < fixone> but immediately after opening it (and waiting the 2 conf), the balance is one the channel opener 13:03 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:03 < ianthius_> guys, i dropped out 13:03 -!- vigorousbearhunt [~vigorousb@gateway/tor-sasl/vigorousbearhunt] has joined #lightning-dev 13:03 < ianthius_> please repost if possible. 13:03 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 13:03 < fixone> i think that the logging at https://botbot.me/freenode/lightning-dev/ is accurate 13:05 < Deelight> you can push some funds to the other side of the channel when you create it 13:05 -!- ianthius [~ianthius@unaffiliated/ianthius] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08 < ianthius_> Deelight: push funds to the other side? you mean sending the satoshis to another node? in return for what? 13:08 -!- ianthius_ is now known as ianthius 13:10 < fixone> if you fund a channel, it doesn't mean that the funds are gone, just that they are locked in the channel and can only be spent on the channel 13:10 < fixone> so you can pre-fund 1-2 channels with well connected nodes 13:10 < ianthius> fixone: i think we are talking pas each other. 13:11 < ianthius> let me describe a scenario. you want to start a cofee shop called FOOSPRESSO. you open said shop and connect a daemon to your POS 13:11 < fixone> and when you go to the store hope that there's a route from you (through the well connected nodes and possible other hops) to the store 13:12 < ianthius> the consumer side of this ISN'T what I am talking about 13:13 < fixone> you as FOOSPRESSO only have to fund (minimally as you'll mostly receive) a couple of channels (with well connected nodes) 13:13 < ianthius> now the foospresso node is running. If has open channles, but all the channels are FULL and cannot accept payments 13:13 -!- onryo [~Onryoghos@unaffiliated/onryo] has joined #lightning-dev 13:14 < ianthius> you need to pay money elsewhere prior to being able to recieve payments for your coffee 13:14 < ianthius> OR you can, as blockstream did, request that people open channels WITH you and then you have avaialable channels balances to recieve payments. 13:19 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 13:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25 < fixone> the answer has to be somewhere in https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/master/07-routing-gossip.md 13:26 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26 < EvanR> ianthius: it seems to me the merchant has the good side of this. end users will probably be more likely to tie up their own funds calling out to retailers 13:26 < vigorousbearhunt> Guys as I am getting more familiar with the idea of LN, I find harder and harder how realistically the topology will end up decentralized. 13:28 < vigorousbearhunt> Also, is it true that LND is more realiable than c-lightning? 13:28 < EvanR> ianthius: then e.g. customer has a channel to overstock or walmart.com, they in term have a channel to a third party where they send their money, and if the coffee shop has a channel to that third party, suddenly whoever is at walmart can buy coffee 13:28 < EvanR> even if they dont set up a channel with that shop. though they could and make it even easier 13:30 -!- Deelight_ [~Deelight@75.68.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:30 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:30 -!- Deelight [~Deelight@75.68.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:31 < EvanR> a simplistic third party here could be a payroll company, this payroll company gets payments from walmart, overstock, and the coffee shop. which in turn pay employees, and the cycle is complete 13:31 < EvanR> for large payments, you could go on chain, but the fees :( 13:33 -!- Doombatz [~dummy@209.35.78.83.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #lightning-dev 13:34 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:34 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35 < fronti> as you can only found a channel with 2^24 sat large payments (more than that) should be onchain not could.. or did i have an error in my interpretation 13:41 < EvanR> oh really 13:41 < EvanR> seems low 13:42 -!- afilini_ [~textual@2-229-240-7.ip199.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 13:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 13:45 < EvanR> so the hypothetical payroll company would have to renegotiate the myriad of channels to actually make the payments, to get the money out of lightning 13:47 -!- fixone [5669c0b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.105.192.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 13:51 < fronti> did not get it. a payroll company normaly pays a lot of people at one day. this can easy done onchain with a tx with many outputs.. but i guess i did not well understand your idea 13:52 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:00 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has joined #lightning-dev 14:06 < EvanR> no that makes sense 14:06 < EvanR> but in order to do that, all channels will need to be destroyed momentarily to get access to the BTC 14:08 -!- jb55 [~jb55@216-71-192-56.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:08 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lightning-dev 14:09 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 15:39 -!- Deelight_ [~Deelight@75.68.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:59 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:59 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03 -!- lowpro [040ff533@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.15.245.51] has joined #lightning-dev 16:03 -!- wxss [~user@185.145.66.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:17 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has joined #lightning-dev 16:22 -!- crabel [4989e145@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.137.225.69] has joined #lightning-dev 16:23 < crabel> Has anyone had problems getting lightningd to pass the checks? Mine fails on the test_balance 16:28 -!- knocte [knocte@booster.qnetp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has quit [] 16:32 -!- DimSum [60f18189@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.129.137] has joined #lightning-dev 16:34 -!- DimSum [60f18189@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.241.129.137] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@9.sub-174-216-27.myvzw.com] has joined #lightning-dev 16:47 -!- lxer [~lx@ip5f5bf6f0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 16:53 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@9.sub-174-216-27.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55 -!- knocte [knocte@booster.qnetp.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:56 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58 < waxwing> does the spec allow for negative routing fees? 17:03 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2601:600:d:e75f:5d56:95d9:11a3:b60f] has joined #lightning-dev 17:05 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:600d:c4d0:c156:a8d1] has joined #lightning-dev 17:05 -!- Deelight [~Deelight@75.68.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:05 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:600d:c4d0:c156:a8d1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:600d:c4d0:c156:a8d1] has joined #lightning-dev 17:07 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:600d:c4d0:c156:a8d1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2601:600:d:e75f:5d56:95d9:11a3:b60f] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:2114:927c:eb0e:bc70] has joined #lightning-dev 17:21 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:2114:927c:eb0e:bc70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:31 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:40 -!- dimsumcode [~dimsumcod@pool-96-241-129-137.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:42 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:43 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:43 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:43 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lightning-dev 17:43 -!- dmar198 [~holoirc@cpe-76-181-129-176.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 17:58 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 18:02 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 18:03 -!- Deelight [~Deelight@75.68.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 18:24 -!- jigawatt [2f2ae8cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.42.232.204] has joined #lightning-dev 18:25 -!- r0m1_ [bab7912a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.183.145.42] has joined #lightning-dev 18:26 -!- r0m1_ [bab7912a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.183.145.42] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left #lightning-dev [] 18:36 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:4c36:c323:9033:7974] has joined #lightning-dev 18:43 -!- pierce [x43matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jodkikiwgdozezbg] has joined #lightning-dev 18:45 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:100f:b021:6082:4c36:c323:9033:7974] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52 -!- dmar198 [~holoirc@cpe-76-181-129-176.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dmar198] 18:52 -!- HoloIRCUser6 [~holoirc@cpe-76-181-129-176.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 19:00 -!- B0g4r7 [nobody@208.76.201.166] has joined #lightning-dev 19:07 <+roasbeef> waxwing: yes and no... 19:07 <+roasbeef> most interpret as a unsigned, easy to flip and interpret as a signed 19:11 -!- vigorousbearhunt [~vigorousb@gateway/tor-sasl/vigorousbearhunt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 19:21 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 19:21 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has joined #lightning-dev 19:23 -!- xocite [local@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xocite] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24 -!- quantomworks [ac491d06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.73.29.6] has joined #lightning-dev 19:24 < quantomworks> So 19:24 < quantomworks> This lightning thing is cool 19:24 < quantomworks> How do I make it so that I can be a wallet provider 19:24 < quantomworks> or rather 19:25 < quantomworks> Just let other users host nodes in an application I make them but host the blockchain on my server 19:26 < quantomworks> ....wait maybe I should look up h ow to host the blockchain remotely first 19:32 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38 < quantomworks> mmm so forums dating dec 2016 say such methods are impossible though i havent checked stackoverflow yet 19:39 <+roasbeef> quantomworks: can't really parse your Q 19:41 < quantomworks> roasbeef: I guess my question is I want to make a litecore-wallet-service, but with the option to host a litecore node (and wallet I guess) on multiple client's machines. Is this possible? 19:42 < quantomworks> lightning node* 19:42 < quantomworks> (Also I suppose *lightcore-wallet-service*) 19:42 < quantomworks> https://github.com/bitpay/bitcore-wallet-service 19:44 < quantomworks> I am following this guide you all wrote to set up a node. I am wanting to expand on this https://medium.com/@dougvk/run-your-own-mainnet-lightning-node-2d2eab628a8b 19:47 -!- lowpro [040ff533@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.15.245.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 20:03 < quantomworks> I mean, I know it isnt fully ready yet being you have the chance to lose your coins and all, but I think it would be great to test and id warn users about if theyre willing to do so 20:07 < mlz> can we trust some stranger's docker with real bitcoin? 20:16 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 20:21 <+roasbeef> quantomworks: dunno who wrote that, but, what do you mean by "host a litecore node on multiple client's machines"? 20:21 <+roasbeef> mlz: well you acn look at what images, etc it's pulling down 20:31 -!- eihli [~eihli@c-73-241-104-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 21:10 < meshcollider> jimpo: is anyone working on implementing BIPs 158&157 in bitcoin core? 21:15 <+roasbeef> meshcollider: i think jimpo's twin might be 21:15 <+roasbeef> there's some work being done to overhaul in te indexing in bitcoind a bit 21:16 < ianthius> if i try and make a payment and one of my channels can't cover it can another one of my channels add funds if it also routes to the destination? 21:16 <+roasbeef> it should 21:16 < ianthius> rad 21:16 <+roasbeef> dpened on impl details tho 21:17 < ianthius> is it in the spec? 21:17 <+roasbeef> really an implementation detail, but there's some advisory sections 21:18 < ianthius> IMO, shouldn't be an implementation detail. This should be spec'd behavior because it's a feature and it's super useful and prudent. 21:19 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-60-77.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lightning-dev 21:19 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-60-77.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:19 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 21:19 <+roasbeef> well it isn't really directly p2p related...it's like all policy really 21:19 < mlz> LND does this 21:19 <+roasbeef> it's something you *expect* an impl to do 21:19 <+roasbeef> fwiw the spec doesn't really talk about outbound channel selection when routing, etc 21:19 <+roasbeef> as it's assumed to be mostly node policy 21:19 < ianthius> i see, the spec is more about the standard for what the NETWORK does, not the features of the client.. i'll read up on the spec. 21:21 < ianthius> you would think it would need to be in the spec, because in order for that to work properly both sending and recieving nodes would need to know to expect multipl payments to satisfy an invoice... 21:36 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:1012:b013:3519:50da:64a7:8211:9bc8] has joined #lightning-dev 21:39 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@240f:d:e193:1:c4b7:1761:a810:71cc] has joined #lightning-dev 21:40 -!- onryo [~Onryoghos@unaffiliated/onryo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has joined #lightning-dev 22:01 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:1012:b013:3519:50da:64a7:8211:9bc8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07 < quantomworks> +roasbeef: I mean how do I give users their own lightning wallet address? 22:08 <+roasbeef> there's really no such thhing as a "lightning wallet address" 22:10 < quantomworks> Huh? Is it just nodes then? https://lightning.network I watched this seminar but maybe I dont get it 22:10 < quantomworks> I am trying to get as many people as possible to use lightning without having to have them go through all the command line steps 22:10 < quantomworks> a program for every day users 22:11 < quantomworks> even site integration to where people can visit a site and give a few satshoshis vs giving ads 22:11 < quantomworks> or being displayed rather 22:11 < quantomworks> +roasbeef ^ 22:13 < quantomworks> But I want them to host as much of it (or all of it if possible) so it isnt centralized 22:17 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:21 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has joined #lightning-dev 22:26 < shesek> is there a standardized content-type for bolt11 payment requests? 22:29 < shesek> also, any thoughts on fetching payment requests via QR urls, à la bip 72's "r" argument? 22:30 <+roasbeef> there's an issue somewhere in the repo bringing that up 22:30 <+roasbeef> but once you start fetching from random urls, that's a pretty big privacy leak 22:31 * roasbeef looks up bip72 22:31 <+roasbeef> oh that bip 70 extension? 22:31 < shesek> right 22:31 < shesek> uri extension for the payment protocol 22:33 < shesek> I was thinking about generating payment requests that are compatible with both lightning and legacy wallets. if lightning accepted a URL embedded in ?r= and has a standardized content type, the server could reply based on the Accept header, with either a traditional bip70 request or a bolt11 one 22:35 < shesek> agreed regarding the privacy leak, and there's also a potential security issue here. but that be remedied by committing to the hash of the payment request in the URI, so that the trust is still anchored to the QR 22:35 < shesek> (the security issue could be, that is. not much to do about the privacy leak :( ) 22:45 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48 -!- AndBobsY_ [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 22:48 -!- AndBobsY_ [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48 -!- AndBobsY_ [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 22:51 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51 -!- AndBobsY_ [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has joined #lightning-dev 22:53 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 23:03 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:1012:b013:3519:e0ff:26ae:c8e1:f782] has joined #lightning-dev 23:06 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 23:07 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:10 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@240f:d:e193:1:c4b7:1761:a810:71cc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:1012:b013:3519:e0ff:26ae:c8e1:f782] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@KD111103034253.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 23:14 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@KD111103034253.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15 -!- Doombatz [~dummy@209.35.78.83.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [] 23:26 -!- AndBobsYourUncle [AndBobsYou@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/andbobsyouruncle] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:33 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@2600:1012:b013:3519:91b2:f398:a78e:cf23] has joined #lightning-dev 23:33 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36 -!- bajohns [bajohns@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/bajohns] has joined #lightning-dev 23:51 -!- daouzo23 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #lightning-dev 23:51 -!- daouzo231 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #lightning-dev 23:51 -!- daouzo231 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51 -!- daouzo23 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59 < quantomworks> heres a random music link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt5OJnwynGs