--- Day changed Tue Apr 03 2018 00:07 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19 -!- JackH [~laptop@212.78.169.180] has joined #lightning-dev 00:35 -!- Dev91 [~quassel@203.86.206.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:39 -!- moneyball [~moneyball@c-73-223-73-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:43 -!- m8tion [~user@197.224.83.222] has joined #lightning-dev 00:52 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 00:57 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dranoqbbkhttkglc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:58 -!- jojeyh [~delphi@47.150.225.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:00 -!- tryphe_ is now known as tryphe 01:05 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 01:11 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@92-111-70-106.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 01:15 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 01:31 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 01:33 -!- Dev91 [~quassel@203.86.206.137] has joined #lightning-dev 01:34 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Client Quit] 01:35 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:29 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@37.58.58.232] has joined #lightning-dev 02:34 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@37.58.58.232] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC4608C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lightning-dev 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC4608C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 02:45 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xndqewvdsjzjiphb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:22 -!- jojeyh [~delphi@47.150.225.231] has joined #lightning-dev 03:39 < jojeyh> lets say it ended up that lightning just became just a few main hubs serving channels, with onion routing would that central hub still not be able to know that the path including only a hop through it? 03:40 < jojeyh> *able to know it is the only hop along path from sender to receiver? 03:42 -!- m8tion [~user@197.224.83.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:04 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@c-24-61-245-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 04:16 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 04:24 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 04:27 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:29 < AndyS2> jojeyh: AFAIK it can only know the previous and the next hop, and the amount. it cannot know if the previous hop was the original sender, or if the next one is the recipient. I am unsure if the routing algorithms proposed leak additional info. 04:30 < jojeyh> AndyS2, yeah i'm lookin through the spec right meow 04:30 < jojeyh> if it were the case and there was no leakage that would be fucking amazing 04:31 < jojeyh> cuz even if a central server was handling a shitload of lightning channels anybody sniffing the traffic couldn't figure a thing out 04:31 < AndyS2> I guess that's the point of using onion routing. And it's the reason why lightning might reduce the anonymity problem for bitcoin. 04:32 < AndyS2> if there was a few main hubs serving channels, they kinda could know if it's for them if the routing algorithm needs to know all their channels, because then the hub knows they are the sender/recipient for all people with just one channel ;) 04:33 < AndyS2> sorry, wrote that in a confusing way. what I wanted to say was that if you only got a single channel to a hub and no other channels, it's obvious that you aren't relaying funds for someone else 04:34 < jojeyh> how could an attacker know that you only have one channel open? 04:36 < AndyS2> if you want routing to work, usable channels should probably be known by everybody. I mean, the hub might want to pay someone, too. 04:36 < AndyS2> I'm not a lightning developer, just interested in the tech, btw 04:40 -!- JackH [~laptop@212.78.169.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:44 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@178.197.231.184] has joined #lightning-dev 04:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 04:48 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 05:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 05:10 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 05:13 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@35.0.120.60] has joined #lightning-dev 05:13 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 05:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@178.197.231.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@178.197.231.184] has joined #lightning-dev 05:19 -!- tryphe_ [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:21 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@c-24-61-245-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:33 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW 05:35 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 05:43 -!- shesek` [~shesek@bzq-84-110-232-235.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:46 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@35.0.120.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@35.0.120.60] has joined #lightning-dev 05:58 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 06:12 < CubicEarths> Home many hops deep do nodes pull channel information from other nodes? I am curious why nodes don't all see the same picture of the network. 06:16 -!- MaxSan1 [~user@86.105.9.67] has joined #lightning-dev 06:18 -!- MaxSan [~user@91.207.102.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19 -!- nickler [~nickler@185.12.46.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21 -!- nickler [~nickler@185.12.46.130] has joined #lightning-dev 06:24 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31 -!- moneyball [~moneyball@c-73-223-73-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 06:43 -!- jojeyh [~delphi@47.150.225.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 06:52 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #lightning-dev 07:01 -!- moneyball [~moneyball@c-73-223-73-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@37.58.58.232] has joined #lightning-dev 07:12 -!- tiagotrs 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closed the connection] 08:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@37.58.58.232] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 08:33 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:36 -!- shesek` [~shesek@141.226.148.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@178.197.231.184] has quit [] 09:00 -!- Murch [~murch@96.74.120.81] has joined #lightning-dev 09:09 -!- grubles_ [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #lightning-dev 09:14 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC47D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lightning-dev 09:14 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC47D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 09:14 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 09:19 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@35.0.120.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@92-111-70-106.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41 -!- grubles_ [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has joined #lightning-dev 09:49 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #lightning-dev 09:49 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC47D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lightning-dev 09:49 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC47D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 09:49 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 10:17 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@35.0.120.60] has joined #lightning-dev 10:25 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 10:29 -!- jtimon [~quassel@142.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 10:42 < chujev> 2018-04-03 19:40:25.177 [INF] HSWC: Sent -225 satoshis received 0 satoshis in the last 10 seconds (1.8446744073709553e+18 tx/sec) 10:43 < chujev> interesting 10:54 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjgappmzmasxmdjx] has joined #lightning-dev 10:57 -!- 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ZZZzzz…] 18:08 -!- DrFeelGood [~DrFeelGoo@204.44.121.194] has joined #lightning-dev 18:11 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 18:15 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:17 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:26 -!- dafunkizdiz [~dafunkizd@157.130.186.54] has quit [Quit: probably someone interrupted me] 18:50 -!- Murch [~murch@96.74.120.81] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 18:59 -!- almkglor [9258463b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.88.70.59] has joined #lightning-dev 19:00 < almkglor> @jojeyh HTLC's have a timeout, each HTLC on the route has a successively lower timeout 19:01 < almkglor> you could in theory guess/statisticize how large the timeout is, to gauge your distance from payee 19:01 < almkglor> (there's talk about shadow routes to reduce the timeout information though) 19:03 < almkglor> but in practice payers will want a maximum timeout because in case channels shut down that's the worst case your money is locked up 19:03 < almkglor> the maximum timeout limits the practical shadow route and means the intermediate hop can now gauge distance to payer 19:06 < almkglor> in less clear words: without a shadow route a hop node has a good chance of guessing distance from destination but not distance from payer 19:07 < almkglor> with a shadow route and with a maximum timeout limit with known default/common setting, a hope node can get a little bit of information about distance from payee and distance from payer 19:07 < almkglor> s/hope/hop/ 19:07 < almkglor> hopefully the combined information is too mixed up for the hop node to make a good guess at either distance. 19:12 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@162-17-147-37-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 20:00 -!- lndbot2 [~lndbot@138.197.213.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00 -!- lndbot [~lndbot@138.197.213.35] has joined #lightning-dev 20:00 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@c-24-61-245-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:10 -!- almkglor [9258463b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.88.70.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36 -!- nitramiz [~nitramiz@162-17-147-37-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kclxifocnqirjgsj] has joined #lightning-dev 20:52 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58 -!- dafunkizdiz [~dafunkizd@174.127.143.202] has joined #lightning-dev 21:04 -!- dafunkiz_ [~dafunkizd@174.127.143.202] has joined #lightning-dev 21:05 -!- dafunkizdiz [~dafunkizd@174.127.143.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:14 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:24 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 21:29 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:45 -!- ze00000 [9b628401@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.98.132.1] has joined #lightning-dev 21:45 -!- ze00000 [9b628401@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.98.132.1] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 22:17 -!- go1111111 [go1111111@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/go1111111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dryrtgqlathlsbdz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:52 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmaaoiirbvkwzcuj] has joined #lightning-dev 22:54 -!- _Sam-- [greybits@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sam--/x-37783179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-52-42-179-84.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-52-42-179-84.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 23:24 -!- dafunkiz_ [~dafunkizd@174.127.143.202] has quit [Quit: probably someone interrupted me] 23:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 23:26 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26 -!- aj [aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 23:29 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:35 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 23:36 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 23:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]