--- Day changed Fri Jul 27 2018 00:01 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:15 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 00:15 -!- froyer [~froyer@pa49-195-117-109.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 00:19 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:22 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 00:33 -!- froyer [~froyer@pa49-195-117-109.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 00:50 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A6701.versanet.de] has joined #lightning-dev 00:50 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A6701.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 00:50 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 00:51 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 01:09 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:13 -!- polydin [~delphi@2602:306:b8b6:b970:18b3:4dc2:268f:c5cc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:20 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 02:04 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 02:37 -!- go1111111 [go1111111@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/go1111111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 03:02 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-077-212-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:02 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-181-127-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 03:15 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 03:33 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 03:38 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:58 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined #lightning-dev 03:58 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:17 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 04:41 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 04:48 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:52 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined #lightning-dev 04:54 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 04:59 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:00 -!- jtimon [~quassel@213.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 05:02 < ghost43> re bolt-10; what are the addresses of the dns seeds? is there only a single seed "lseed.bitcoinstats.com." ? 05:09 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A6701.versanet.de] has joined #lightning-dev 05:09 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A6701.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 05:09 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 05:13 -!- volition_ [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 05:15 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #lightning-dev 05:22 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 05:23 -!- volition_ [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:26 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Client Quit] 05:28 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 05:39 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:40 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 05:47 -!- volition_ [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 05:48 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:01 -!- volition_ [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 06:05 -!- Jbaczuk [~Jbaczuk@c-24-11-32-193.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 06:05 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 06:11 < e4xit> Reading the chat logs from yesterday, am I correct in understanding that if my LND node gets corrupted I would potentially lose the funds I had in open channels even if I have made proper backups? I though we were all time-locked in here? 06:11 <+roasbeef> e4xit: this is that there's state 06:11 <+roasbeef> thing is* 06:12 <+roasbeef> you need the channel state as well in order to recover a portion of the funds 06:12 <+roasbeef> with lnd your on chian seed will let you get those funds, but then you'll need a static description of the channel to actually recover the funds that you had in channels 06:15 < Jbaczuk> roasbeef: does it not refund the original owner when the channel expires? 06:16 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:19 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 06:20 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 06:23 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:23 < e4xit> @roasbeef ok I get that, but as Jbaczuk says I thought that you would just submit the final state that you have to close the tx. Other party would not be able to show that you signed a miore recent transaction (as your node was offline and you didn't, this is akin to trying to forge a new tx), so I don't quite see why state can't be stored and backed up periodically? 06:25 <+roasbeef> the issue with the current design is to ensure that you always have the latest state 06:25 <+roasbeef> Jbaczuk: channels don't expire anymore 06:26 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 06:26 < e4xit> Is that a protocol level change or implementation decision? 06:26 < e4xit> the expiry 06:27 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:28 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:30 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:31 <+roasbeef> protocol level i guess, this way you don't ever have to close a cahnnel 06:35 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #lightning-dev 06:36 < e4xit> OK. So lets say I have 1 BTC in my LND wallet and 5 nice autopilot channels open, using a total of 0.5 of the 1 BTC, is there no way I can externally backup the wallet with 100% guarantee so as to not lose my balance in case of say, a power surge in a storm which toasts my motheboard (but not my backup NAS behind surge protector)? 06:37 <+roasbeef> you can if you're careful as in back up and continue to use them, tehre's a very reliable way to simply be able to reclaim those channels 06:38 < e4xit> ok cool. so will a regular backup of .lnd folder allow me to do that 06:39 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@94.140.116.240] has quit [K-Lined] 06:48 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 06:49 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:52 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 07:02 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has joined #lightning-dev 07:06 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:12 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 07:19 -!- bageljams [59ee9afb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.238.154.251] has joined #lightning-dev 07:20 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~mdunn@38.126.31.226] has joined #lightning-dev 07:26 < Jbaczuk> roasbeef: if they never expire, do you have to manually close the channel to put the final state on the blockchain? can either party close the channel? i'm sorry if there are docs on this i can read up 07:27 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 07:33 -!- Jbaczuk_ [~Jbaczuk@ec2-52-43-23-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:34 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 07:35 -!- Jbaczuk [~Jbaczuk@c-24-11-32-193.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 07:39 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:40 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~mdunn@38.126.31.226] has quit [] 07:40 -!- mdunn [~mdunn@38.126.31.226] has joined #lightning-dev 07:40 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 07:43 <+roasbeef> Jbaczuk_: yes you or the other party can close at anytime 07:53 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 07:55 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 08:08 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:12 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@jupiter.osmus.org] has joined #lightning-dev 08:12 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@jupiter.osmus.org] has quit [Changing host] 08:12 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has joined #lightning-dev 08:14 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: ok, cool. so you could close the channel with the private key, right? Why do you need to know the state? 08:14 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: is that just to know what coins you can claim? 08:15 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: i'm sure i'm oversimplifying 08:20 -!- marcinja_ [~marcin@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 08:21 <+roasbeef> Jbaczuk_: well you need the script in order to spend it, or you need the items required to reconstruct the proof 08:21 <+roasbeef> that's the main thing, the svript has a ton of other things, some which you contorl or can generate yourself, others than you just need to write down 08:33 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: if anyone can close the channel, what stops someone from closing it in favor of themselves even if they have spent coins offchain? 08:33 <+roasbeef> well they can only close to the "best" state 08:34 <+roasbeef> either they will be punished (lose all their money in the channel), or you can just play the best state (like eltoo) 08:34 <+roasbeef> basically there's a way to invalidate prior states 08:39 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 08:43 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 08:48 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 08:48 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:50 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #lightning-dev 08:57 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:10 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:16 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 09:21 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has joined #lightning-dev 09:21 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: oh i see that must be in the script i assume 09:23 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@136.52.18.22] has joined #lightning-dev 09:23 -!- savil[m]2 [savilmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rhajeqmfmgutpydc] has joined #lightning-dev 09:30 <+roasbeef> Jbaczuk_: yeh once you start doing script hash stuff, you need the script, and maybe also the privatekey or w/e 09:30 <+roasbeef> so things are more stateful now, but the upside is that we can do a lot of more fancy stuff 09:31 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@136.52.18.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32 < Jbaczuk_> roasbeef: right that makes perfect sense now, thanks! 09:32 <+roasbeef> np :0 09:32 <+roasbeef> :)* 09:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A1C67.versanet.de] has joined #lightning-dev 09:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A1C67.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 09:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 09:43 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:53 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 10:03 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has joined #lightning-dev 10:05 -!- xchuck00 [~xchuck00@unaffiliated/xchuck00] has quit [] 10:08 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:10 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has joined #lightning-dev 10:41 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:f04a:567d:e2f9:37e] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:44 < ghost43> I'm querying r1.lseed.bitcoinstats.com. for SRV records and the nodes I am getting are mainnet ones. How do I get testnet nodes? What is the correct realm byte? Are there other dns seeds? 10:44 < ghost43> I see it always returns 25 records and ignores the "n" key btw. so I'm guessing it ignore "r" too 10:47 -!- Jbaczuk_ [~Jbaczuk@ec2-52-43-23-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:50 -!- xchuck00 [~xchuck00@unaffiliated/xchuck00] has joined #lightning-dev 10:51 -!- Jbaczuk [~Jbaczuk@ec2-52-43-23-161.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 11:13 <+roasbeef> ghost43: nodes.lightning.directory is one 11:13 <+roasbeef> and test.nodes.lightning.directory 11:15 < ghost43> roasbeef: is the latter for testnet and the former for mainnet? do I still need to specify the "r" key? 11:16 < ghost43> thanks btw :) 11:21 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 11:26 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:32 -!- mdunn is now known as michaelsdunn1 11:35 -!- froyer [~froyer@126.121.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined 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