--- Log opened Tue Dec 04 00:00:42 2018
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01:12 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] nayuta-gondo opened pull request #523: BOLT 4: fix the index of `ek`. (master...pr/20181204-ek_k) https://git.io/fpiPm
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16:09 < niftynei> rusty: re  using sha256(revocation_basepoints) for the channel_id, commitment_signed2/funding_signed2 messages are no longer trivially correlated between funding txn revisions
16:12 < niftynei> i don't think it matters
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16:25 < niftynei> it kind of has a nice property in that splicing/dual funding doesn't update the channel_id
16:27 < niftynei> changing out the funding tx *will* affect the `short_channel_id` tho
16:29 <+roasbeef> how could it not change the channel_id? it's derived from teh fudngin outpoint
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16:44 < niftynei> yeah that's current state. i'm referring to strawman idea to use a sha of both sides' revocation points instead 
16:44 < niftynei> it's at the end here https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2018-December/001709.html
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16:47 < niftynei> tl;dr in the rbf case for dual funding, there's ambiguity as to what funding txn to use for the channel_id 
16:55 <+roasbeef> the one that confirms? 
16:55 <+roasbeef> unless you mean the temp chan id? 
16:58 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] niftynei opened pull request #524: WIP: dual funding first draft (master...dual-funding) https://git.io/fpXOm
17:00 < niftynei> well if you're rbf-ing the last funding txn that you broadcast hasn't confirmed so you're re-negotiating a new funding txn
17:00 < niftynei> what do you use in the `channel_id` fields for the renegotiation? the broadcast funding txn or the one you're currently composing?
17:01 <+roasbeef> use the set of outputs created, something derived from teh multi-sig keys 
17:02 <+roasbeef> a ton of complexity tehre can be sidestepped just by doing a set of incrementing fee levels up front (so fixed amount), then if that fails fall back to attempting to anchor the tx down with cpfp 
17:02 <+roasbeef> agreee on the min, max and step interval, done 
17:05 < niftynei> you still have to signal that you're rbf-ing, so the other side can rev their version  of the funding tx
17:06 < niftynei> plus if the fee swing has enough heft to it, then your steps aren't gonna save you
17:06 < niftynei> even then, you still have to re-exchange commitment txs
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17:10 <+roasbeef> niftynei: yeh the fallback is to anchor down the transaction, you only need a single temp channel id, the one that was created by the initiator 
17:10 <+roasbeef> you do all this up front, then just wait 
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17:12 < niftynei> hmm.. as proposed, the opening node could set themselves up for cpfp instead of using the rbf mechanism
17:13 < niftynei> provided it's not dusty, you'll have a change output
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17:14 < niftynei> rbf *is* 'chain space' nicer
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17:23 < rusty> roasbeef: sure, I originally wanted to limit RBF so it was basically the same tx with one output less (ie. you couldn't add new inputs or outputs: if the fee increase is greater than your original contribution to the channel, It Was Never Meant To Be.
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17:24 < rusty> If people are happy with that, it's at least simple.  We still have the thing where our channel_id would change every time we RBF, unless we extend the temporary_channel_id through the entire process, which sucks for all the "can't trust the temporary_channel_id" reasons.
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20:03 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] nayuta-gondo opened pull request #525: BOLT 5: fix a note of `Unilateral Close Handling`. (master...pr/20181205-resolved) https://git.io/fpXc2
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23:09 -!- chenpo [~chenpo@111-251-64-89.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
--- Log closed Wed Dec 05 00:00:43 2018