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[Read error: No route to host] 03:22 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 03:22 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 03:22 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 03:34 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 03:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 03:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 03:47 -!- Paul__ [b84b73fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.115.252] has joined #lightning-dev 03:48 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 03:49 -!- Paul__ [b84b73fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.115.252] has left #lightning-dev [] 03:50 -!- PaulTroon [b84b73fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.115.252] has joined #lightning-dev 03:53 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54 < PaulTroon> Can anyone point me to more discussion of the idea rusty mentioned in his LN summit for using a "primitive schnorr" technique to create a signature for a batch of channel_update messages? 03:54 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:05 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 04:05 -!- PaulTroon [b84b73fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.115.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:08 < gertjaap> it seems to make sense to me that features inherent to the BOLT protocol are not feature flags. Why should they? If you don't support BOLT-style channels, you are not compatible anyway. There's no need to indicate that in feature flags? 04:09 < gertjaap> what does wonder me is, will all new protocol changes from here on in be part of feature flags? 04:10 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 04:10 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 04:10 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:10 < gertjaap> Like if something changes in 1.1 or 2.0 version of the spec? Given there's no "versioning" in the init message, i guess that everything has to go in flags 04:15 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:20 < gertjaap> roasbeef: with "forward htlcs" in your last suggestion, i guess it's just the onion traffic? given that for actually routing there'd have to be a lit node that is connected to one of the other nodes with a channel. 04:21 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:24 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 04:25 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:29 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 04:30 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:30 < ysangkok> gertjaap: but they BOLT's are pluggable, and there is even a chain_hash 04:32 < ysangkok> i always thought there would come a feature flag that turns off BOLT-2 and BOLT-3 and then enables BOLT-9000 and BOLT-9001 which would do channels for some alternative coin that is not compatible with bitcoin scripting 04:33 < ysangkok> i guess some confusion stems from lightning.network not being totally clear about what is meant to be supported. 04:33 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34 < ysangkok> README.md links to lightning.network and lightning.network contains vague stuff like "By using real Bitcoin/blockchain transactions and using its native smart-contract scripting language" 04:34 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 04:34 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 04:34 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:34 < ysangkok> i guess it would say Bitcoin script if it was only supposed to be Bitcoin script, it's less complicated that 'native smart-contract scripting language' 04:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 04:38 < ysangkok> gertjaap: what i am trying to say, is that "inherent to the BOLT protocol" does not compute with me, because many coins will never be able to apply all BOLTs. currently, afaik, all BOLTs are assumed to be supported , but it doesn't have to be like that 04:38 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 04:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 04:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:40 < ysangkok> but i remember reading somewhere that something should not be standardized before there are two implementations? don't remember where i saw that 04:42 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:46 < gertjaap> ysangkok: i think that's an entirely different discussion. useful, surely, but not what i'm aiming at. the current situation is that there's a couple implementations that follow this standard. if you want to join in with those, it doesn't make sense to not support any of their actual features? 04:46 < gertjaap> i.e. the features described in BOLT-2 and -3 are not optional. so there are no, and should be no, feature flags 04:47 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined #lightning-dev 04:49 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 04:49 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 04:52 < ysangkok> they are not optional, but they could be. i am arguing that either they should be optional, or it should be stated somewhere that lightning-rfc only supports Bitcoin script (as used in Core) supporting coins 04:52 < ysangkok> neither is currently the case 04:57 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:57 < gertjaap> well, implicitly it is the case from the other BOLTs specifying how transactions and signatures are made. it uses constructs only available to bitcoin script 05:01 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 05:03 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 05:07 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 05:17 -!- Schmeckle [~Schmeckle@gateway/tor-sasl/schmeckle] has joined #lightning-dev 05:18 < Schmeckle> World first ERC20 to Lightning atomic swap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLlFegcEZ8Y using now open sourced COMIT protocol: https://github.com/comit-network/comit-rs 05:55 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 05:56 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 06:00 < buZz> pretty shitty :P 06:02 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@cpe-107-9-138-59.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 06:02 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03 -!- shesek [~shesek@141.226.218.112] has joined 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[~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 11:37 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Client Quit] 11:37 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 11:37 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 11:41 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 11:42 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 11:42 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 11:47 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 12:02 <+roasbeef> gertjaap: i don't think that's true, for example lets say ppl come up with a new chanenl type and add it to the spec, you'd then add a feature bit global so ppl can find you and make that channel, also local so when you connect out to you can say if you require that new channel type or not 12:03 <+roasbeef> gertjaap: yeh realized a bit after I sent that that there'd need to be _some_ sort of bridge, i wonder if a proxy of sorts could be added to brdige the two commitment styles, it would maybe need access to lit's keys to do the mapping properly 12:15 <+roasbeef> for example, let's say 2-of-2 ecdsa is added as a channel type, you'd signal that on the global level so other nodes can find you, then require the local feature bit to to force that node makes those more private channels w/ you 12:19 < gertjaap> Yeah I can see how “extra” features can be added and advertised. So that’s definitely a route to take for different channels and including stuff like DLCs. But interacting with BOLT clients only makes sense if we at least support the same basic features. 12:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 12:37 <+roasbeef> gertjaap: yes of course, would be the same with any other protocol right? For example, TLS 1.3 and the Noise protocol can't interact if they don't support the same state machine, message formats, crypto, etc, but if there's a bridge they can speak to each other. So TLS 1.3 would signal a special cipher suite that's just actually noise, the proxy would be modified to parse the client hello, etc 12:42 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 12:46 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 12:47 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 12:49 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 12:53 <+roasbeef> gertjaap: but yeh at this stage minimal amount of work would be being able to utilize the existing gossip network to find other nodes that you identify as yours by their feature bits, so helps out with discovery in taht they can calso use the existing DNS seeds 12:55 < gertjaap> That should be fairly easy, I guess. Aligning the channel related stuff will be a headache for sure. 12:59 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:02 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 13:02 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 13:02 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:07 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Client Quit] 13:07 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 13:12 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:13 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:16 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:16 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:20 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 13:22 -!- vtnerd 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[~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:34 <+roasbeef> gertjaap: yeh that would def be more involved, tho there's a path using some new API's lnd will expose soonish, so you'll be able do things like tell lnd to hold onto a specific payment hash (not settle it), then insert the payment hash over RPC 15:35 <+roasbeef> so this makes the proxy simpler, as it just cares about payment hashes and preimages, example is: lnd gets htlcs, notify over RPC, you take that get lit to forward it along the rest of the path, along the reverse direction, you insert the preimage into lnd 15:35 <+roasbeef> so it's a proxy that doesn't require aligning channel stuff, since ofc the htlc is king for end to end payments 15:36 -!- bitcoinjunior [~bitcoinju@87.101.92.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined 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[~shesek@141.226.218.112] has quit [Changing host] 23:38 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 23:42 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has quit [Client Quit] 23:42 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.254.132.98] has joined #lightning-dev 23:47 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has joined #lightning-dev 23:51 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51 -!- thomasanderson [~thomasand@2605:a601:b021:f00:d943:c0b9:80e8:b3e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 23:55 -!- bitcoinsushi [~bitcoinju@87.101.92.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] --- Log closed Thu Dec 13 00:00:50 2018