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[~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:39 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@5.8.16.238] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 12:47 -!- sstone [~sstone@185.186.24.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:53 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:55 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 12:55 < cdecker> Meeting soon ^^ 12:58 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 12:59 -!- Stepan_ [5271629d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.113.98.157] has joined #lightning-dev 13:02 -!- Stepan_ [5271629d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.113.98.157] has quit [Client Quit] 13:02 -!- hiroki_ [d295ffa9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.149.255.169] has joined #lightning-dev 13:02 < cdecker> #startmeeting 13:02 < lightningbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 10 20:02:38 2019 UTC. The chair is cdecker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:02 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 13:02 -!- mode/#lightning-dev [+o rusty] by ChanServ 13:03 < kanzure> hi 13:03 -!- rusty changed the topic of #lightning-dev to: Bitcoin Lightning Network Development: Be Excellent To Each Other! Logging at http://gnusha.org/lightning-dev/ Next Meeting: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/projects/1 13:03 -!- t-bast [~t-bast@2a01:e34:ec2c:260:284e:8072:8bfb:27a4] has joined #lightning-dev 13:03 < cdecker> Ping rusty BlueMatt roasbeef bitconner sstone araspitzu niftynei kanzure Chris_Stewart_5 13:03 -!- mode/#lightning-dev [-o rusty] by rusty 13:03 < lndbot> Will be in and out, only have my phone. Suspect roasbeef is still in transit 13:04 < sstone> hi everyone! 13:04 < t-bast> hi guys! 13:04 < cdecker> #link https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/projects/1 13:04 < cdecker> Hi everyone :-) 13:04 < cdecker> conner: still travelling from coredev? 13:05 < cdecker> #topic Resuming video-chat spec meetings in parallel to the IRC meetings 13:05 < lndbot> cdecker, something like that, don’t leave till mañana 13:05 < cdecker> Before we begin I wanted to bring this up 13:07 < cdecker> During CoreDev, we were talking about how abysmal the bandwidth for actual discussions is on IRC, so we thought it might be nice to resume the video calls, that could be life-streamed in order not to exclude people, and still use the IRC channel as a sort of log and for people not on the call to pitch in 13:07 < kanzure> NACK 13:07 < cdecker> Just wanted to put that out there and see what the general feeling was 13:08 < t-bast> I think it would be more productive than IRC 13:08 < rusty> I prefer video for chit-chat and throwing ideas around, but I like IRC for the actual logging decisions. 13:09 < cdecker> Ok, reasonable. However our actual decisionmaking became really slow once we moved to IRC, since we get hung up in misunderstandings and discussions 13:09 < sstone> I think our hangout meetings were significantly more efficient 13:09 < t-bast> then maybe we should use video outside of the IRC meetings more often to make progress before the IRC logging decisions are taken 13:09 < cdecker> If we had people actually contribute, and discuss topics on the list / tracker, yes, we could just nod off stuff on IRC 13:09 -!- sfhi [~sfhi@178.255.154.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10 < cdecker> Anyway, don't want to bog down the meeting with this discussion at the start, just thought I'd throw it out there, and we can discuss outside the meeting 13:10 < cdecker> Let's get to ACK stuff ^^ 13:10 < rusty> Yeah, maybe a pre-meeting, or post? 13:10 < lndbot> Sgtm. I wouldn’t mind going back to video if we also log to irc during 13:11 < lndbot> Tho the transparency of irc is nice for others 13:11 < cdecker> #topic bolt04: Variable `hop_payload` for the sphinx onion #619 13:11 < cdecker> #link https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/619 13:12 < cdecker> This is the 3rd attempt at getting larger payloads into the spec, with #593 we had fixed size frames, with #603 we had explicit enumeration of frame counts, and with #619 we now have everything variable 13:12 < lndbot> Did we figure out what the max path length with this proposal would be? 13:12 < cdecker> After implementing it I quite like #619, it breaks with the 20 hop limit, but that's ok I guess 13:13 < t-bast> after implementation I find it very flexible too 13:13 < lndbot> Did some mental maths and came up with 23-24 13:13 < t-bast> yeah I think it was around 25 13:13 < lndbot> Which I think is fine 13:13 < lndbot> Think it depends on whether the final node can drop the hmac 13:13 < cdecker> conner: so with legacy payload we had 12 bytes of padding, that means we now can salvage those (240 bytes in total), divide that by 53 and we get 4 additional hops 13:14 < cdecker> Assuming (wrongly) we'd still use the legacy payload 13:14 < t-bast> this proposal completely gets rid of any kind of padding so it feels like we're close to optimal in terms of what data we're able to put in the onion 13:14 < cdecker> The new format allows us to better compress some numbers (cltv and msatoshi) but add the TLV overhead 13:14 < cdecker> Notice that I actually have TLV types defined in the PR (stolen from #603) 13:15 < cdecker> Damn, and I just noticed I have typos in the PR (thanks t-bast for the review) 13:15 < rusty> I dislike including hmac in the length, which would seem the easiest way to drop the final zero HMAC. 13:16 < cdecker> rusty: this proposal doesn't include the HMAC in the length 13:16 < lndbot> I like the general direction of this, but idk how many people have been able to look at it since Friday 13:16 < cdecker> it's varint(len), len x bytes, 32 bytes hmac 13:16 < rusty> cdecker: yes, but t-bast I think suggested it. 13:16 < cdecker> Oh, ok 13:16 < t-bast> yes but I said it wasn't a good idea afterwards :) 13:16 < rusty> t-bast: OK :) 13:16 < t-bast> in the same comment I believe, in an edit 13:16 < cdecker> I think it's not worth adding the HMAC to the payload itself 13:16 < t-bast> yeah me neither 13:17 < cdecker> btw, with this construction we can use the 32 bytes at the end as well 13:17 < lndbot> At one point we discussed being able to drop the hmac for the final hop. Is that included in this or are there any attractive ways to do so? 13:17 < rusty> t-bast: OK. Re: your TLV formatting suggestion, they are not a varint, so that's confusing. They're explicitly 'integer' from a previous spec which defined that to be "an integer field of 0 to 8 bytes in length". 13:17 < cdecker> If we do so, the last "HMAC" which is never used hangs over the end of the packet and will be shifted in as part of the fillers, which is totally ok 13:18 < cdecker> conner: see my comment above 13:18 < rusty> cdecker: what's our termination condition then? 13:18 < t-bast> rusty: hum ok I think I got it 13:18 < cdecker> We add an explicit flag in the onion :-) 13:18 < lndbot> cdecker, gotcha makes sense 13:19 < rusty> t-bast: BTW niftynei had a script PR which parsed TLVs, which will need to coordinate with exact format. 13:19 < lndbot> We could signal the final hop via a short_chan_id of 0 13:19 < cdecker> It's a TLV value with 1-byte type and 1-byte length of 0, meaning we now signal in 2 bytes that the node is the final node 13:19 < cdecker> conner: I prefer explicit signal in this case, it's 8 bytes shorter 13:19 < t-bast> rusty: got it, I understand what you meant. I'll have a look at niftynei's PR 13:20 < cdecker> Ok, seems I need to go back and fix some typos, but the general idea is ok? 13:20 < lndbot> cdecker: I like that 13:20 < cdecker> (We could still accept and merge after typo fixes) 13:20 < lndbot> And that would also mean “I haz no hmac”? 13:21 < rusty> cdecker / conner: Agreed skipping that final hmac is attractive, and a terminator TLV seems like the most attractive. 13:21 < cdecker> Right 13:21 < lndbot> :tada: 13:21 < t-bast> ACK on the general idea 13:21 < cdecker> Nice :-) 13:21 < cdecker> t-bast: were you able to reproduce the onion test vector on your end? 13:22 < t-bast> yes I tested it on friday and it worked like a charm 13:22 < rusty> cdecker: Ack. Unf we need to add terminator, otehrwise I would say include it now and fix up typos later. Oh well :( 13:22 < cdecker> Awesome 13:22 < cdecker> Ok, so vote on accepting #619, me fixing typos and adding the terminator, and then merging? @all 13:22 < lndbot> Would be good to run these ideas by roasbeef as well before pulling the trigger 13:23 < cdecker> Right, will wait for an ACK on the PR (would like to get these merged, and not postponing 2 more weeks) 13:23 < t-bast> agreed :) 13:23 < rusty> Ack. 13:24 < cdecker> (Also I noticed that the code cleans up nicely with this variable payload stuff ^^) 13:24 < t-bast> action item on conner to tie roasbeef to his chair and make him look at the PR this week? 13:24 -!- YSqTU2XbB [~smuxi@134.28.68.51.rdns.lunanode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24 < lndbot> Y’all seem trigger happy today lol 13:24 < t-bast> haha 13:24 < cdecker> #action cdecker to fix typos in PR #619 and add the route termination TLV value to spec 13:24 < lndbot> But yes we’ll look at it 13:24 < cdecker> #action conner to ask roasbeef for an ACK on the PR 13:25 < cdecker> #agreed cdecker good to merge #619 once fixes are in and roasbeef ACKd 13:25 < cdecker> Sounds good? 13:25 < t-bast> sgtm 13:25 < lndbot> Yep will ping him 13:26 < cdecker> ok, I also closed #593 to reduce clutter 13:26 < rusty> Shall we move to #607, which I must say is the MOST FLAWLESS PR EVER. 13:26 < cdecker> Sure 13:26 < cdecker> #topic BOLT01: TLV proposal #607 13:26 < t-bast> TLV? never heard about those 13:26 < cdecker> #link https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/607 13:27 < rusty> I want to thank conner for sitting down with me and thrashing this out. We ended up with something we're happy is flexible and yet tightly specified. 13:27 < cdecker> Shall I ask the dreaded question? 13:27 < lndbot> Yeah pretty happy with how this turned out! 13:28 < cdecker> What about the "it's ok to be odd" rule? 13:28 < t-bast> heh 13:28 < rusty> cdecker: yeah, we kept it. It's redundant, but it's nice to have a backup. 13:28 < lndbot> t-bast had a good q on if we should move it to it’s own bolt 13:28 < cdecker> +1 on giving it its own bolt 13:28 < lndbot> Rationale that there we could also define common encodings that are used, and which other bolts can reference 13:29 < t-bast> +1 for its own bolt to group "known" specified TLV types as well 13:29 < lndbot> If a bolt needs a more nuanced encoding, it can be done inline 13:29 < rusty> That's kind of waht bolt1 is... 13:30 < rusty> t-bast: I'm not sure, though, since each type only makes sense in context. Grouping them together loses that. 13:30 < lndbot> I think the idea is that we shouldn’t have to define a uint32 encoding everywhere 13:30 < rusty> Not sure we have common types except for the "0-8 byte integer" type. 13:30 < lndbot> Or perhaps a compressed uint32 encoding 13:31 < t-bast> rusty: there are some common types that will end up being redefined all the time, like a node_id, an amount_msat, etc, don't you think? 13:31 < cdecker> The separation of bolts is rather chaotic tbh, the message format is in bolt 02, while 01 is the initial handshake and other control messages 13:31 < cdecker> t-bast: that's more of a type, rather than an instance in a field though isn't it? 13:31 < rusty> cdecker: ? Message format is in 01... 13:32 < cdecker> Oh, right, got confused with the framing in bolt 02 13:32 < rusty> I did have an old PR which replaced the '8:' etc in the spec with type names, which were defined in 01. Might drag that out, but it's a format thing, rather than something code. 13:32 < cdecker> Still, 01 now has top-level message format, some messages and the sub-message level TLV field format 13:33 -!- drc_ [4620002f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.32.0.47] has joined #lightning-dev 13:33 < cdecker> Anyhow, we can reorg later 13:33 < cdecker> Let's talk about the TLV proposal as is 13:33 < rusty> Agreed, reeorg is a formatting change we can have someone propose and implement later. 13:34 < lndbot> Personally, I prefer having standalone bolts that clearly delineate what is encapsulated, rather than needing to search through multiple. Yes, TLV format, any qualms? 13:34 < t-bast> sounds good, I can draft a more detailed explanation (with examples) to explain why I think it might make sense to group some types together and we'll see if people agree with that 13:34 < t-bast> TLV format sgtm 13:34 < cdecker> Nice touch with the monotonically increasing type, but how about having multiple fields of the same type? 13:34 < t-bast> we said it could be encompassed by the type itself 13:35 < rusty> My only proviso is that it goes a little meta with the varbytes comment. We don't have a good place in the spec for "advice to spec writers" though. Again, maybe a new bolt... 13:35 < cdecker> Ok, so we allow nested arrays for example 13:35 < t-bast> cdecker: exactly 13:35 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35 < cdecker> ok 13:36 < rusty> cdecker: disallowed. We discussed it, but all existing examples were kind of destroyed by the order being required by the formatting (eg. bolt11 has dup 'f' fields, but order matters). 13:36 < lndbot> rusty, yeah I was looking at that too. Indeed the suggestion should be more general: don’t encode a single variable length field within a record 13:36 < rusty> lndbot: you mean no *redundant* length prefixes inside a TLV, right? 13:37 < lndbot> rusty: yes 13:38 < rusty> Yeah, we def. need a BOLT-BOLT.md Advice To Young Authors for this kind of stuff. 13:38 < rusty> But, again, formatting... Content is good. 13:38 < cdecker> Ok, seems rusty and conner like the proposal, how about t-bast and sstone? 13:39 < t-bast> I like it 13:39 < t-bast> I approved it on github a few days ago already 13:39 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 13:39 < sstone> I like it too. Was just thinking that when you define an "array" subtype you'll have to specify ordering rules too 13:39 < cdecker> Ok, so everybody agrees on accepting PR #607? 13:39 -!- michaels_ [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40 < rusty> sstone: true, our work is never done :) 13:40 < lndbot> sstone, is that not true either way? 13:40 < cdecker> What does "done" mean, rusty? 13:40 < cdecker> ;-) 13:40 < sstone> conner: yes 13:40 < rusty> cdecker: very meta. In this case I meant we will have to consider that when we define our first such field. 13:41 < lndbot> Okay, so soft ack on this? 13:41 < lndbot> Seems like there isn’t anything substantial to discuss? 13:41 < cdecker> SGTM 13:41 < t-bast> sgtm 13:41 < rusty> Why soft? I think it's good to go. 13:42 < sstone> sgtm 13:42 < cdecker> I think this is actually more than soft 13:42 -!- itsiku [~itsiku@abelohost-34.207.207.185.dedicated-ip.abelons.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:42 < cdecker> #agreed Merge #607 13:42 < cdecker> Congrats conner ^^ 13:42 < t-bast> congrats! 13:42 * rusty applauds 13:42 < lndbot> Woo!!! 13:42 < lndbot> I can push some slight touch ups before or after, either way is fine with me :) 13:43 < cdecker> Any preference for next issue to discuss? 13:43 < rusty> Let's merge as is for the record, then add typo fixes? 13:43 < t-bast> cdecker: range queries? 13:43 < lndbot> Thank you to everyone for the feedback and discussion :D 13:43 < cdecker> t-bast: number? 13:43 < t-bast> #557 13:44 < t-bast> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/557 13:44 < cdecker> #topic BOLT7: extend channel range queries with optional fields #557 13:44 < cdecker> #link https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/557 13:44 < sstone> yes please since we agree on TLV it is now implementable too :) 13:45 < cdecker> This is even older than my multi-frame PR :-) 13:45 < rusty> Sorry, I've been slack. I *will* implement the new TLV version before next meeting, sorry. 13:45 < sstone> I think the only nitpick left was the choice if CRC for the checksum (Adler32 vs CRC32) ? 13:46 < lndbot> proposal looks pretty good to me, still some typos but not critical 13:46 < rusty> (Somewhere just out of reach the c-lightning 0.7.1-rc1 is screaming at me for saying that) 13:46 -!- drbrule [~user@cpe-24-193-246-88.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:47 < rusty> sstone: crc has the advantage that it *will* catch single bit changes, such as a single flag. 13:47 < cdecker> So most people seem to be fine with the proposal 13:47 < cdecker> Do we have 2 independent implementations though? 13:47 < rusty> sstone: but OTOH I'm pretty sure that we can trivially ensure lack of collisions w/ Adler by tweaking timestamps. 13:48 < cdecker> Let's not be "clever" in even more places 13:48 < lndbot> Idt there are two impls 13:48 < sstone> rusty: I don;t mind switching to CRC32 13:48 < cdecker> Ok, so I think we can't really merge, but we can collect ACKs 13:48 -!- itsiku [~itsiku@abelohost-34.207.207.185.dedicated-ip.abelons.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:49 < rusty> sstone: I already implemented Adler so I don't really mind. We use crc32 in our codebase as well, so . 13:49 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50 < lndbot> CRC32 sgtm 13:50 < sstone> CRC32 it is then 13:50 * cdecker abstains from having an opinion in this case 13:50 < rusty> gcc has a crc32 primitive, *sometimes* it seems. OK. 13:50 < cdecker> So, with CRC32, everybody is fine with the proposal? 13:51 < t-bast> sgtm 13:51 < rusty> Yes, ack! 13:51 < cdecker> Conner? 13:51 < lndbot> Can probably get an impl of timestamp querying in the near future 13:51 < lndbot> But yeah, o/w happy with the proposal 13:52 < rusty> BTW, c-lightning 0.7.1 will no longer ask all nodes for the gossip firehose, assuming my PR gets through review :) 13:52 < cdecker> #agreed Merge #557 once we have a second implementation 13:52 < cdecker> Nice ^^ 13:52 < cdecker> Making progress 13:52 < t-bast> awesome 13:52 < lndbot> rusty: that would be awesome 13:53 < lndbot> Might even make sense to disallow historical gossip filters... 13:53 -!- laptop500 [~laptop@host86-128-184-5.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:53 < cdecker> Ok, moving on 13:53 < t-bast> A small proposal we wanted to discuss is #596. We've got many people asking for the ability of opening bigger channels so it might be the right time to discuss this? 13:54 < rusty> Was seriously tempted to make gossip-extensions a required feature, but there's really v. little work to support the old ones. 13:54 < cdecker> #topic Single-option large channel proposal #596 13:54 < cdecker> #link https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/596 13:54 < cdecker> Great, thanks t-bast, was about to ask for the next most urgent proposal 13:54 < t-bast> ;) 13:55 < t-bast> maybe we need to add some signaling on the biggest channel size we accept (not in the PR)? I don't know if there's a field already indicating that somewhere. 13:56 < cdecker> Looks like the only issue is that some higher bits were chosen, rather than starting from 0 13:56 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:56 < t-bast> I think the bits choice was made to play nicely with the feature bit unification (which we could discuss as well) 13:56 < cdecker> Dunno, if we need yet more signalling (explicit size limits) 13:57 < cdecker> The 2^24 limit was chosen mainly to avoid having people put their life-savings in there 13:57 < cdecker> I don't think an upper limit should be forced by the fundee 13:57 < cdecker> If it has a lower preference it can always start rejecting HTLCs 13:58 < t-bast> yeah that makes sense 13:58 < sstone> cdecker: agreed 13:58 < rusty> This takes us back to "what's happening with features?" I think. Weird he put it in as "wumborama" which is a channel option, instead of i_wumbo_you_wumbo which is the node option. 13:58 < lndbot> I’m fine with the feature bits not intersecting so we can keep the option to unify feature bits later 13:59 < cdecker> Oh, you're right, it should be a node feature, not a channel feature 13:59 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 13:59 < rusty> cdecker: people want a node option to say "I support large channels!". We may not need a channel feature, sure. 13:59 < t-bast> rusty: doesn't that proposal replace previous wumbo bits (I might be lacking some context on the previous wumbo stuff)? 14:00 < t-bast> in the PR it looks like only a global (node) flag is defined so it should be ok, isn't it? 14:00 < rusty> t-bast: but there were two sets of wumbo bits: 14/15 for "this node can wumbo with you" and 16/17 for "this channel has wumbo" 14:00 < rusty> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/issues/605 14:01 < cdecker> Also shouldn't we communicate this in the `init` message, not the `channel_open`, or am I misreading this? 14:01 < rusty> Those numbers were only a suggestion anyway, but this seems to be 14/15? 14:01 < lndbot> +1 for local and global signaling 14:01 < t-bast> yeah I might be misreading but it seems like nothing is needed in the `channel_open` is it? 14:02 -!- joost_ [~joost@ip51cf95f6.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 14:02 < t-bast> to use rusty's issue naming only bits 14/15 should be needed right? 14:02 < rusty> t-bast: as long as we decide to reflect local (aka "node" features) into node_announcement, yes. 14:02 < cdecker> Yep, I think we need a feature bit defined, and have that in the `init` and the `node_announcement`, to signal to peers on connection and to signal potential peers in gossip 14:03 < lndbot> Plus private nodes wouldn’t be able to make big channels if we only signaled global 14:03 < t-bast> rusty: I thought that would be the case, is there a reason *not* to do it? 14:04 < rusty> t-bast: we don't today. But it became clear that people want to announce what features their node supports without requiring a connect, so hence https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/571 says that we should reflect node features in node_announcement. 14:05 < rusty> (Previously the thinking was that if you're not a direct peer, you don't need to know this stuff) 14:05 < t-bast> ok, thanks for the explanation 14:06 < rusty> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/571/commits/14ced3b6c33961f1adc3699994c21a4abc4958f8 14:06 < rusty> I think we should talk through 571, TBH. I know we're over-time already though :( 14:06 < rusty> They're quite nicely separate commits: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/571/commits 14:07 < cdecker> Ok, seems we are indeed out of time 14:07 < t-bast> I think that we agree on the need for large channels, but the discussion revolves more around 571 atm 14:07 -!- joost_ [~joost@ip51cf95f6.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07 < cdecker> Shall we defer #571 and move discussion to ML and tracker? 14:07 < t-bast> maybe update feature bit unification and large channels proposal before next meeting and discuss them on github? 14:07 < rusty> cdecker: reluctantly agree. I'll stay on for a bit to give an overview and answer qs though 14:07 < rusty> t-bast: ack 14:07 < cdecker> Ok, any objections to deferring? 14:08 < t-bast> nope, sgtm 14:08 < sstone> no 14:08 < t-bast> we already made some nice progress today 14:08 < cdecker> Sorry about that, would have liked to get it through 14:08 < cdecker> #agreed Defer PR #571 to the ML and tracker, to be decided during the next meeting 14:09 < lndbot> defer sgtm 14:09 < cdecker> #topic Chit-chat and announcements 14:09 < cdecker> Ok, let's finish up with announcements, anybody brought something for show-and-tell? 14:09 < cdecker> :-) 14:10 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:10 < t-bast> I brought a trampoline proposal that will be ripe when variable-length onion is merged :D 14:10 < cdecker> c-lightning will soon release 0.7.1, containing performance improvements, bug fixes and extending some of the plugin API 14:10 < cdecker> Yep, trampoline is very interesting as well 14:10 < rusty> 0.7.1-rc1 this week. For sure... Main improvement people care about (other than bugfixes) is that if our gossip is current, we only ask 2 peers for the last 24 hours, 8 peers for current gossip, and any other peers for no gossip at all. 14:11 < cdecker> And Stepan has sent an e-mail for spontaneous payments based on the onion shared secret 14:11 < rusty> If we find our gossip isn't current, we ask two random peers for complete gossip though, so not perfect. 14:11 < cdecker> Talking to conner last week, we think it might work nicely, but needs tagged hashes so we don't lose flexibility for other uses 14:12 < t-bast> nice gossip improvements on c-lightning! we also briefly discussed exploring minisketch during coredev, hopefully in a few weeks/months we'll have more to share 14:12 < lndbot> I have something, if it's ok to interject from a non-contributing dev. 14:12 < cdecker> Sure Rob 14:12 < lndbot> A researcher working at University of Edinburgh’s Blockchain Technology Lab (funded by IOHK, which contributes to Cardano) is about to publish a paper entitled “A Composable Security Treatment of the Lightning Network”. It should be completed and submitted by the end of the week. 14:13 < cdecker> Nice, looking forward to it 14:13 < t-bast> that's great! 14:13 * rusty misread that as "Compostable"... I hope not! 14:13 < cdecker> Seems we all have more than enough on our plates for the next days, let's get to it :-) 14:13 < t-bast> you should definitely send something to the mailing list once the paper is out, a lot of people will be interested 14:13 < cdecker> #endmeeting 14:13 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Mon Jun 10 21:13:53 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 14:13 < lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-06-10-20.02.html 14:13 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-06-10-20.02.txt 14:13 < lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-06-10-20.02.log.html 14:13 < lndbot> I can email each of you a preprint if you would like. 14:14 < t-bast> rob: would love to -> bastien@acinq.fr 14:14 < cdecker> I'll wait for the public release, since I won't get to read it before that anyway :-) 14:16 < lndbot> Hi all, one quick comment: 4 weeks ago we briefly discussed https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/608. Today the question came to me what the use is of the `htlc_msat` field in the `incorrect_or_unknown_payment_details` failure. I detailed it in the pr. If anyone knows what I am overseeing there, please tell me 14:17 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lightning-dev 14:17 < t-bast> joost: I'll have a look at it tomorrow and will answer on github 14:17 < t-bast> thanks all, great progress today 14:18 -!- t-bast [~t-bast@2a01:e34:ec2c:260:284e:8072:8bfb:27a4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18 < lndbot> :thumbsup_all: 14:22 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 14:24 -!- hiroki_ [d295ffa9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.149.255.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:26 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:30 -!- booyah_ is now known as booyah 14:30 < rusty> Updated comment on https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/571 to describe it properly, with examples. 14:31 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:33 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:33 < lndbot> It seems like there should be some commentary on the intended behavior of the sender in response to these errors 14:38 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 14:44 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:50 -!- sstone [~sstone@185.186.24.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:52 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 14:52 -!- drc_ [4620002f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.32.0.47] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:53 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 14:57 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:58 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:59 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 15:01 -!- while123 [~while@74.215.209.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01 -!- while123 [~while@74.215.209.126] has joined #lightning-dev 15:02 -!- renlord 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[~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29 -!- ulrichard [~richi@dzcpe6300borminfo01-e0.static-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #lightning-dev 22:47 -!- lxer [~lx@ip5f5bd680.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:59 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@unaffiliated/bralyclow] has joined #lightning-dev 23:49 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] --- Log closed Tue Jun 11 00:00:38 2019