--- Log opened Mon Feb 10 00:00:08 2020
--- Day changed Mon Feb 10 2020
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 10 15:51:13 2020
--- Log opened Mon Feb 10 15:51:13 2020
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16:43 < rusty> m-schmook just added a test PR to c-lightning which demonstrates the "channel-stuck" draining issue we discussed at last meeting.
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16:43 < rusty> Off the top of my head, I'm tempted to add a rule that if I'm the funder I'll always insist I have the amount required for the fees involved in adding one more HTLC, so we never get into this state.
16:44 < zmnscpxj> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/3498
16:44 < rusty> Of course, fees could go up, but that's life.
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16:44 < rusty> zmnscpxj: thoughts on the mitigation?  Since we're due to release, I'd prefer something simple and this seems minimal
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16:45 < zmnscpxj> does it not just move the problem one level out?
16:45 < zmnscpxj> something like, it effectively just moves the reserve?
16:46 < rusty> zmnscpxj: yes, but the problem here is that we can't take fees from the reserve, since peer will refuse that.  So we do need a slightly higher "effective reserve" for ourselves, if we're funder.
16:47 < zmnscpxj> so a soft limit that protects the "reserve" hard limit? seems to work, with naive analysis
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16:47 < rusty> zmnscpxj: yeah... Maybe I'll do 1.5x current fees for a bit of buffer though.
16:47  * rusty starts coding...
16:47 < zmnscpxj> have no idea how to implement it though, peer_htlcs.c is scary territory
16:49 < rusty> zmnscpxj: it's actually up to the channeld in this case.  full_channel.c has the checks
16:49 < zmnscpxj> ah
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16:50 < zmnscpxj> Deserves a "OpTech Make Me Famous" once we have a fix IMO
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16:51 < rusty> zmnscpxj: :-D
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17:48 < fiatjaf> what error should I return so wallets will stop trying the payment but channels won't be closed?
17:48 < zmnscpxj> ....error?
17:48 < zmnscpxj> at what level are you talking about?
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17:49 < zmnscpxj> if it is channel-level onion handling of incoming HTLCs, maybe some kind of error with a PERM bit set
17:51 < zmnscpxj> `permanent_channel_failure` for example
17:51 < zmnscpxj> "The channel from the processing node is unable to handle any HTLCs."
17:51 < zmnscpxj> Or are you talking about some other error?
17:51 < fiatjaf> no, I'm talking about onion-level
17:53 < zmnscpxj> you could do `permanent_channel_failure`, or if your node does not want to *ever* forward, use `permanent_node_failure` (though you might never receive any funds from the source if you do that...)
17:53 < zmnscpxj> What are you trying to do?
17:53 < fiatjaf> I've tried incorrect_or_unknown_payment_details and another one that had the PERM bits
17:53 < fiatjaf> BLW retries them all
17:53 < fiatjaf> I'll try that one you said
17:53 < zmnscpxj> Ah
17:54 < zmnscpxj> What *are* you trying to do?
17:54 < zmnscpxj> prevent from being routed to? prevent receiving funds ever?
17:54 < fiatjaf> I'm trying to do custom magic stuff with htlc_accepted
17:54 < fiatjaf> I just want to fail one payment
17:54 < fiatjaf> I'm creating an invoice with a fake private channel hint
17:54 < zmnscpxj> so some kind of censorship attempt?
17:54 < fiatjaf> and handling it at my main node
17:55 < zmnscpxj> hmmmmmm
17:55 < fiatjaf> I make an API call that may fail and if it succeeds I fulfill the HTLC, otherwise I must fail it so the payer keeps his money
17:55 < zmnscpxj> If BLW is still trying despite a PERM bit being sent then it is a bug in BLW I would say
17:55 < zmnscpxj> PERM means permanent error, never gonna happen, do not try again....
17:56 < zmnscpxj> always gonna give you up, always gonna let you down, always gonna run around and hurt you
17:56 < fiatjaf> but if I manually try that same payment again it should try again, right?
17:56 < zmnscpxj> yes
17:56 < fiatjaf> ok
17:57 < fiatjaf> my custom pay logic I use in lntxbot also retries it, but it's a bug. that reminds me I must switch to using c-lightning's pay directly.
17:58 < zmnscpxj> yes, we respect `PERM` at the indicated payee
17:58 < zmnscpxj> you *are* emulating the PERM error at the payee and not the server that you put in the routehint right?
17:59 < fiatjaf> oh, right
17:59 < fiatjaf> that would be my next question
17:59 < fiatjaf> how?
17:59 < fiatjaf> I only have one server
17:59 < zmnscpxj> how did you sign the invoice? Presumably you have access to the privkeys for that?
17:59 < fiatjaf> a c-lightning with the htlc_accepted plugin
17:59 < fiatjaf> I create fake privkeys
18:00 < zmnscpxj> then you wrap the failure with the fake privkey, and pass it on to the "real" node....
18:00 < fiatjaf> no
18:00 < fiatjaf> the privkeys are not used
18:00 < fiatjaf> I just handle the htlc at my c-lightning node
18:00 < fiatjaf> and resolve or fail it there
18:00 < zmnscpxj> As far as the payer is concerned, the payee is the one that signed the invoice.
18:01 < fiatjaf> the fake route hint is there just to add proper fees to the payment
18:01 < fiatjaf> yes
18:01 < zmnscpxj> so it will not consider that as the "real" payee if it did not sign the invoice.
18:01 < fiatjaf> I sign the invoice with the fake privkeys
18:01 < zmnscpxj> though if it is a permanent error the payer should still fail, and try to find an alternate route, which it will be unable to since it is a faked keypair
18:01 < zmnscpxj> and not keep repeating on you either
18:02 < zmnscpxj> but no, you cannot send `incorrect_or_unknown_payment_details` in that case, since your C-lightning node is pretending to be a node *before* the payee
18:02 < fiatjaf> 'pay' gives me "Ran out of routes to try after 1 attempt: see paystatus"
18:02 < zmnscpxj> Yes, that is what should happen
18:02 < zmnscpxj> because `pay` will think "oh this routehint failed, we cannot use this routehint, do we have other routehints, or is the payee on the map?"
18:03 < zmnscpxj> and then it realizes there *are* no more routehints and the payee (being a fresh keypair) is not on the map.
18:04 < zmnscpxj> But if you want to send `incorrect_or_unknown_payment_details` we would need to expand C-Lightning `htlc_accepted` hook to allow a faked wrapped onion failure
18:04 < fiatjaf> no
18:04 < zmnscpxj> because that can only come from the payee, and your C-Lightning node is not emulating the payee, it is emulating the node *before* the payee
18:04 < fiatjaf> I'm happy to send permanent_channel_failure
18:05 < zmnscpxj> so you have to wrap it using the fresh keypair
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18:05 < zmnscpxj> Well, then that should work
18:05 < fiatjaf> thank you
18:05 < zmnscpxj> modulo implementations that do not pay attention to the actual failure code .........
18:06 < zmnscpxj> You also make a fresh short-channel-id right?
18:06 < fiatjaf> yes
18:07 < zmnscpxj> should work fine then
18:07 < fiatjaf> a different short_channel_id for each call
18:07 < zmnscpxj> ok
18:07 < fiatjaf> what do you mean by modulo implementations
18:07 < zmnscpxj> "except for implementations"
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18:09 < fiatjaf> oh, right
18:09 < fiatjaf> hahah
18:10 < zmnscpxj> If you want one invoice == one attempt, you would have to retain the payment hash that already failed the API call and have the `htlc_accepted` always fail it forever
18:10 < zmnscpxj> Then maybe the payer implementation will get the hint and stop retrying at some point.....
18:12 < fiatjaf> https://github.com/btcontract/lnwallet/blob/7a0ae8e36322b91f872a09bb1aba080f3ab3f2e7/app/src/main/java/com/lightning/walletapp/ln/PaymentInfo.scala#L132-L135
18:12 < fiatjaf> apparently permanent_channel_failure will work
18:13 < zmnscpxj> Is that BLW?
18:13 < fiatjaf> it will retry without the failing channel
18:13 < fiatjaf> yes
18:13 < fiatjaf> but will find no more routes
18:13 < zmnscpxj> So why would BLW still retry after that?
18:13 < fiatjaf> so I guess maybe my problem was that I was returning an invalid error that could only be returned by the final payee
18:14 < zmnscpxj> ah, possibly
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18:36 < rusty> Yes, only final node can return that,otherwise it's invaliud.
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18:51 < rusty> Hmm, slight mis-diagnosis for https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/3498.  The non-funder *is* allowed to add an HTLC even if it pushed the funder into their reserve, but most implementations won't.
18:52 < rusty> And I'm not sure what would happen with other implementations if we let c-lightning do it.
18:54 < zmnscpxj> seems better to avoid the state still
18:54 < zmnscpxj> also we probably have to do something about push_msat as well
18:54 < rusty> zmnscpxj: yeah, push_msat was always a bad idea, but meh.
18:54 < rusty> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/3500
19:08 < rusty> Hmm, I have coded up the alternative (let a single HTLC through as non-funder even if it dips into funder reserves).  But I'm not sure if it will break lnd or eclair; needs discussion at next mtg I think.
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19:20 < rusty> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/3501
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