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09:00 < bsm117532> Aside from NOINPUT and decrementing nLocktimes, are there any other ideas floating around for Eltoo-like functionality?
09:01 < bsm117532> (re: bitcoin-dev post from Tom Trevethan about ECDSA statechains -- I think a very interesting addition to Lightning network infrastructure)
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10:19 < cdecker> bsm117532: eltoo doesn't really rely on decrementing timelocks (that was my prior proposal called duplex micropayment channels)
10:19 < cdecker> There are quite a number of proposals that would benefit from noinput, statechains is just one of them
10:20 < cdecker> It's really useful to defer committing to fees for example
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10:48 < bsm117532> I know. What's the holdup with NOINPUT/ANYPREVOUT? 
10:48 < bsm117532> cdecker: yeah reading that paper of yours now...
10:49 < cdecker> Basically review bandwidth, since everybody is concentrating on taproot + schnorr atm
10:49 < bsm117532> cdecker: would you say Tom's (decrementing timelocks) is identical to yours? Are there any differences?
10:55 < cdecker> Haven't had time to dig into his proposal yet, so dunno :-)
10:59 <+roasbeef> bsm117532: there's this: https://stanford2017.scalingbitcoin.org/files/Day1/SB2017_script_2_0.pdf uses checksigfromstack
10:59 <+roasbeef> personally i don't find statechains all that interesting since they're custodial, lot of hoops to jump through just to end up being or interacting with a custodian at the end of the day 
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11:03 < bsm117532> roasbeef: I don't find it terribly different than a Lightning node TBH, which temporarily has "custody" of an interesting preimage. I think the two approaches are complementary. As pointed out by Shinobi, a statechain can allow fast liquidity rearrangement for LN nodes, without compromising the security of endpoints sending/receiving.
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11:14 <+roasbeef> bsm117532: LN isn't custodial, it's super diff
11:14 <+roasbeef> to my understanding a state chin operator can collude w/ other parties to steal funds 
11:15 < bsm117532> Correct. If I want to choose that trust assumption to add liquidity to my LN channels, why not, if it doesn't harm others in the network?
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12:31 <+roasbeef> bsm117532: yeh you can totally go that route if you want, but it's a very diff security model 
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 26 00:00:34 2020