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12:41 < BlueMatt> may be of interest to this channel, but one issue with not having a CSV of 1 on all the commitment tx outputs is that you may have to re-query for blocks from electrum-style servers. eg if you see a commitment tx, now you have to re-query the electrum server for the same block to see htlc txn which spend the same...if every output was csv 1, we may be able to avoid that entirely.
12:41 < BlueMatt> cc ariard 
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12:46 < BlueMatt> (I dont know the specific electrum protocol so it may not be an issue for them, but its easy to imagine a block query protocol that it would be)
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13:15 < ghost43> BlueMatt: could you expand on that a bit? what exactly do you imagine is being queried from an electrum server and when?
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13:20 < BlueMatt> eg if you're sending a block filtering server (eg electrum server) a list of things that you want to be notified in the form "I want to see any txn that spend output X" then you may miss HTLC transactions in the same block (ie, you would send the channel-opening tx X to the server, which would send you the confirmed commitment tx, but not the HTLC txn that spend said commitment tx). Obviously you could imagine a smarter server that can 
13:20 < BlueMatt> include the htlc txn, but in a naive world it would take two queries to the server.
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13:22 < ghost43> ah ok, I see. I guess it's a valid point, although I don't think in itself it would be a strong justification for adding a CSV delay :P
13:25 < ghost43> the actual electrum protocol is unfortunately a lot less efficient than that atm, so it is unaffected. typically you do  hash(scriptPubKey)->history lookups, where the history is a list of (txid, block_height). then you do txid->rawtx requests, and (txid,height)->merkle_proof requests. to figure out if an outpoint is spent, you inspect all the txns in the history of hash(scriptPubKey)
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13:25 < BlueMatt> yea, no, I agree, its not a strong reason, I only mention it because there's been back and forth on the issue a few times, so one more interesting tidbit
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 16 00:00:52 2020