--- Log opened Wed Jun 24 00:00:12 2020 --- Day changed Wed Jun 24 2020 00:00 -!- riclas [~riclas@77.7.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lightning-dev 00:18 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lightning-dev 00:19 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 00:31 -!- Pavlenex [~Thunderbi@94.46.175.111] has joined #lightning-dev 00:48 -!- t-bast [~t-bast@ec2-35-180-216-238.eu-west-3.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 00:49 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 00:50 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@c-67-180-60-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lightning-dev 00:54 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@xdsl-188-154-186-21.adslplus.ch] has joined #lightning-dev 01:00 -!- Pavlenex [~Thunderbi@94.46.175.111] has quit [Quit: Pavlenex] 01:04 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfmoajjozryzvnor] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:15 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 01:30 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@xdsl-188-154-186-21.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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AFAICT it only seems to work for the naive attack: Alice restored an old database, Alice and Bob exchange commit heights (ctns), they both realise Alice is claiming to be behind, and Bob can either close with latest of risk closing with an older state. However, what if Bob is waiting for Alice to send channel_reestablish first? in that case, Bob could privately deduce that Alice is claiming 08:27 < ghost43> to be behind, and then Bob could send channel_reestablish with an even older ctn! hence Bob can try to trick Alice into force-closing with her old state, and then punish Alice. 08:29 -!- t-bast [~t-bast@ec2-35-180-216-238.eu-west-3.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:29 < ghost43> or am I missing something? basically to maximise money, a greedy implementation would always want to have the other party send channel_reestablish first, and then if it's older than expected, send back even older ctns 08:30 < ghost43> BOLT-02 says "option_data_loss_protect was added to allow a node [...] to detect that it's fallen-behind" 08:31 < ghost43> but the whole point is that it cannot reliably detect that it is fallen-behind. data_loss_protect is useful if it knows for a *fact* that it has fallen behind, because then it won't force-close itself; but it is not useful for detection 08:37 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37 < ghost43> please tell me if all this is obvious -- but even if so, should it not be at least mentioned in the BOLT? 08:40 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #lightning-dev 08:44 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild 08:54 < ThomasV> f01b14c312b84973de2c6761208e06449074a17c94044e10f871daf86adf37f2 /opt/electrum/contrib/build-linux/sdist/../../../dist/Electrum-4.0.0b0.tar.gz 08:55 < ThomasV> oops wrong channel 09:08 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:08 < ThomasV> dff0c5bb46ec6a9a93d94a154eca395db3d8da966db9e1a11caa35126f6d1b65 /opt/electrum/contrib/build-linux/appimage/../../../dist/electrum-4.0.0b0-x86_64.AppImage 09:16 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-8-246.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-8-246.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:19 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #lightning-dev 09:38 < ghost43> would it be reasonably to e.g. wait to receive channel_reestablish before sending it if it is you who initiated the transport connection? 09:45 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vioaxpoabkcdzydg] has joined #lightning-dev 10:10 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #lightning-dev 10:35 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:44 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@xdsl-188-154-186-21.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:47 -!- jellybois [~jello@52.255.157.34] has joined #lightning-dev 10:49 -!- Cloudflare [~Cloudflar@unaffiliated/cloudflare] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53 -!- Cloudflare [~Cloudflar@unaffiliated/cloudflare] has joined #lightning-dev 10:54 -!- jb55 [~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55] has quit [Quit: jb55] 11:02 < ja> how could that be reasonable? the spec doesn't specify who is to send it first, so if you take that arbitrary stance, and your counterparty has taken the opposite arbitrary stance, it wouldn't work 11:02 < ja> wouldn't it make sense to have the standard specify who is to send channel_reestablish first? 11:07 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 11:20 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- Sajesajama [Salsa@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/sajesajama] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 12:36 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] 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