--- Log opened Fri Oct 09 00:00:41 2020
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05:21 < sword_smith> A couple of big companies are looking into the possibility of non-custodial lightning channels. Where these companies handle Bitcoin Lightning channels on behalf of users without having constant access to the users' secret keys. I don't think it can be done, though, as the Lightning node needs contant access to the secret keys in case it needs to take action when A) receiving funds B) 
05:22 < sword_smith> confiscating other party's funds in case the channel was closed with an old state C) passing on payments, or D) close a channel collaboratively if this is requested by the other party.
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06:47 < michaelfolkson> B) is the third party watchtower use case which can definitely be done non-custodial (see work by Eye of Satoshi and others)
06:49 < michaelfolkson> There has also been work done on selective permissions (eg macaroons on lnd) which would let a third party do certain things without being able to steal all the funds in the channel
06:50 < michaelfolkson> D) perhaps seems like a good candidate for something like macaroons.
06:52 < michaelfolkson> Remember there are 6 secret/private keys involved in Lightning. Some that need to be hot, others that can be cold. You could give one of these secret/private keys to a third party but not others
06:52 < michaelfolkson> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/lightning-conference/2019/2019-10-19-chris-stewart-private-key-management/
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08:25 < ariard> sword_smith: what does these companies exactly promise to their users? It's technically possible to isolate the channel key from the LN node in an external signer owned by the user, but you still need the company to honestly report you chain monitoring
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08:25 < ariard> sword_smith: otherwise the company which might also your counterparty can still incoming payment from you by not claiming onchain when required
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 10 00:00:42 2020