--- Log opened Sun Nov 01 00:00:04 2020 00:13 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 00:32 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev 00:50 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 01:01 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 01:00 -!- riclas [~riclas@188.37.7.77] has joined #lightning-dev 01:23 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 01:33 -!- per_ [~per@gateway/tor-sasl/wsm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnianqbqwfffpdxd] has quit [Quit: 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#lightning-dev 06:00 -!- __gotcha1 [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:02 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 07:02 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 07:03 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:06 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:08 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:13 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:18 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:24 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 07:24 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:29 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29 -!- __gotcha1 [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 07:29 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31 -!- __gotcha1 is now known as __gotcha 07:32 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:33 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:36 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 07:38 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 07:39 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48 < fiatjaf> why can't pre-pay fees be all paid by the payment initiator to all nodes in the route regardless of success or failure? 07:48 < fiatjaf> (in the context of "402 for lightning itself") 07:49 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-118.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lightning-dev 08:09 -!- wullon587 [~wullon@241.243.86.88.rdns.comcable.net] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] 08:12 -!- th0th1 [~th0th@gateway/tor-sasl/th0th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16 < harding> fiatjaf: because payments in LN are routed P2P from each hop to the next, so the first hop can steal all the payments for the subsequent hops. A way around that is ZmnSCPxj's nested tunneled incremental fees, but the concern there is that it might add too much delay in network round trips, see https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2020-October/002811.html 08:42 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-099-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:52 -!- nobody123 [~nobody123@tmo-081-179.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lightning-dev 09:02 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 09:03 < fiatjaf> that is a very interesting idea 09:03 < fiatjaf> I'm fascinated 09:05 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:06 -!- mrostecki [~mrostecki@gateway/tor-sasl/mrostecki] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:11 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 09:17 -!- Pavlenex [~Thunderbi@141.98.103.251] has joined #lightning-dev 09:24 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