--- Log opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:11 2021 00:00 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lightning-dev 00:01 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:16 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@2601:645:c200:14:91a5:d8cb:fe32:d136] has joined #lightning-dev 01:11 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 01:24 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:50 -!- eric [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 01:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 02:18 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@2601:645:c200:14:91a5:d8cb:fe32:d136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:30 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 02:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:34 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 02:35 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 02:36 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lightning-dev 02:36 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:46 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 02:53 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 02:55 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 03:02 -!- xwvvvvwx [xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02 -!- xwvvvvwx [xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx] has joined #lightning-dev 03:05 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 03:11 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 03:25 -!- xwvvvvwx [xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in] 03:27 -!- xwvvvvwx [xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx] has joined #lightning-dev 03:36 -!- __gotcha1 [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 03:40 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40 -!- __gotcha1 is now known as __gotcha 03:42 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@240e:3b3:30b1:5c50:846:ae39:949c:397f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@103.135.251.204] has joined #lightning-dev 03:49 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:10 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lightning-dev 04:24 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 04:31 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #lightning-dev 04:34 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-2-121.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lightning-dev 04:35 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #lightning-dev 04:39 -!- da39a3ee5e6b4b0d [~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:255c:18d1:c1a9:13be:6f9e] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:40 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lightning-dev 05:20 -!- da39a3ee5e6b4b0d [~da39a3ee5@mx-ll-171.5.28-247.dynamic.3bb.co.th] has joined #lightning-dev 05:25 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 05:28 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:36 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 05:37 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@103.135.251.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@103.135.251.204] has joined #lightning-dev 05:37 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 05:39 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:41 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52 < cdecker> It 05:52 < cdecker> 's a simple anti DoS mechanism: you want to publish your channel, show us that it cost you something. 05:53 < cdecker> You don't want to share that info, that's fine, but your channels will not get gossiped about and you'll have to add info to the invoices (routehints) which can be obfuscated 06:52 -!- fiatjaf2 [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a8b:8a99:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:52 -!- da39a3ee5e6b4b0d [~da39a3ee5@mx-ll-171.5.28-247.dynamic.3bb.co.th] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 06:54 -!- fiatjaf2 [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a8b:8a99:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #lightning-dev 07:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@164.90.217.137] has joined #lightning-dev 07:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@164.90.217.137] has quit [Changing host] 07:18 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 08:08 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-177-034-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:10 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@103.135.251.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@2601:645:c200:14:91a5:d8cb:fe32:d136] has joined #lightning-dev 08:52 -!- jb55 [~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52 -!- zmnscpxj__ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59 -!- laptop_ [~laptop@ppp-2-121.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lightning-dev 09:01 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-2-121.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:04 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:07 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 09:09 -!- jb55 [~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55] has joined #lightning-dev 09:09 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lightning-dev 09:14 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev 09:22 -!- laptop_ [~laptop@ppp-2-121.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:32 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:36 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 09:39 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev 09:55 < stiell> Wouldn't it be enough to only let your immediate peers check that? 09:56 < stiell> I.e. each node checks the UTXO of all public channels of each peer. 09:59 < stiell> If it's enough to let immediate peers check the channels, I'm thinking it might be possible to even not reveal all UTXOs to peers, by using some interactive zero-knowledge proof. 10:23 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-076-026-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 10:30 -!- DeadWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 10:54 -!- guest01230123 [3ef80191@62.248.1.145] has joined #lightning-dev 10:56 -!- guest01230123 [3ef80191@62.248.1.145] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06 < ja> stiell: but if alice pays charlie using the intermediary bob, how can alice know that bob is not lying about having a channel with charlie? and when downloading the channel graph, nodes could just feed you an infinite amount of data, if you can't verify it, how can you trust they're not making it up on the spot to annoy you? 11:07 < ja> stiell: regarding ZK proofs, that would necessitate adding new cryptographic assumptions, right? it would be a whole other ballgame, may as well start using 2p-ecdsa and other fancy stuff then 11:08 < stiell> ja: In the simplest case I imagine Alice checking that all of Bob's channels correspond to a valid UTXO. So in that scenario nothing would change. 11:09 < ariard> ja: have a look on nickler's https://github.com/jonasnick/taproot-ringsig, it might be a first building block towards unique ownership proofs 11:09 < stiell> ja: From my understanding, interactive ZK proofs are quite simple and don't rely on any advanced cryptographic assumptions. 11:12 < stiell> (but they may be inefficient, at least in their naive form) 11:15 < ja> oh, i am out of my depth :O sorry. thanks for the link ariard, i will read it now 11:45 -!- vtnerd [~vtnerd@50-81-138-206.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:31 -!- proofofkeags [~proofofke@174-29-3-187.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:31 -!- proofofkeags_ [~proofofke@174-29-3-187.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:31 -!- proofofkeags_ [~proofofke@174-29-3-187.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56 -!- DeadWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57 -!- vtnerd [~vtnerd@50-81-138-206.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lightning-dev 13:00 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 13:31 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev 14:13 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 14:24 -!- asoltys [~root@s207-81-214-2.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev 14:37 -!- asoltys [~root@s207-81-214-2.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:45 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 14:47 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@2601:645:c200:14:91a5:d8cb:fe32:d136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:02 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 15:06 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:13 -!- DeadWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 15:21 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 15:25 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:28 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 16:08 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25 -!- TheGWJW [~AGWJW@pool-96-255-230-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35 -!- da39a3ee5e6b4b0d [~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:255c:18d1:c1a9:13be:6f9e] has joined #lightning-dev 16:37 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@2601:645:c200:14:91a5:d8cb:fe32:d136] has joined #lightning-dev 16:58 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 17:01 < stiell> Maybe the hardest problem is that the anonymity set of UTXO-to-channel associations is limited to channels that have approximately the same size, open around the same time, *and* close around the same time. 17:20 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:29 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 17:30 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 18:01 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev 18:30 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in] 18:44 -!- DeadWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45 -!- DeadWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 18:45 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 20:08 -!- madatun_1 [~madatun_3@103.135.251.204] has joined #lightning-dev 20:47 -!- bitromortac_ [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has joined #lightning-dev 20:51 -!- bitromortac [~admin@gateway/tor-sasl/bitromortac] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@80.174.218.168.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lightning-dev 21:31 -!- da39a3ee5e6b4b0d [~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:255c:18d1:c1a9:13be:6f9e] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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