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11:50 < afdudley> You want to use a custom client for sure.
11:52 < afdudley> something like pbkdf2 can be used to generate the pre-images
11:53 < afdudley> and you can enumerate the salt, I think. this is really off the cuff though.
11:53 < afdudley> Ylbam: see above.
11:53 < Ylbam> will have a look, ty
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14:03 < roasbeef> Ylbam: no need to reveal the identity of the players, can either use a circular route that encodes additional information in the un used hops, or just do a readnevous protocol by encoding the embedded route in the e2e payload
14:04 < roasbeef> circular route is possible as is, and at most gives the player something ~500 bytes to encode game related info
14:05 < roasbeef> only so much you can do game-wise with the current base HTLC's though, either need basically a two-path circuit for one half, and a regular payment circuit for the other half to make it proper trustless
14:05 < Ylbam> @roasbeef: you mean hiding the pubkey used for payouts?
14:05 < roasbeef> gimmie just EC addition and the gates swing open to cool stuff you can do...
14:05 < roasbeef> yeh, why do you need ot know their identity?
14:06 < Ylbam> don't want to, but at the moment payment requests include the recipient pubkey
14:07 < roasbeef> well you don't even neccerisly need invoices at all
14:07 < roasbeef> the circular route thing I discribed above lets players do a round of the game at their discretion
14:07 < Ylbam> I thought that preimage was required in some way
14:08 < Ylbam> not sure to understand how it works, is there some docs I could read somewhere?
14:08 < roasbeef> player can derive depnding on what the game looks like
14:08 < roasbeef> hmm dunno if there's anythign written up
14:09 < Ylbam> ok     
14:09 < roasbeef> but the player basically creates a route, that drops off at the proprietor, if the player wins the proprietor is to "inject" additional funds to the next hop in accordance to what the per-hop payload says
14:09 < roasbeef> if win, then payload goes back to player and they claim with a particular pre-image
14:09 < roasbeef> if not, then proprietor takes funds
14:10 < roasbeef> this is purely within the network
14:10 < Ylbam> interesting
14:10 < roasbeef> sphinx payloads are _always_ 20 hops, but player can encode w/e other data taking up some of the pyaloads for each hop by just using the proprietor's public key for the other hops so they can decode it
14:12 < Ylbam> I'm not very familiar with sphinx, is it already used in lnd ?
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14:15 <@roasbeef> Ylbam: yeh, the RPC level hooks to do fancier tricks like this arne't yet in tho
14:15 <@roasbeef> actually there's a pending PR for sendroute I havn'et got around to reviewing
14:15 <@roasbeef> will let you manually construct routes ont he client side
14:15 < Ylbam> ok     
14:15 <@roasbeef> so can do things like this
14:15 <@roasbeef> one minor modificatino would be to include the currentyl undefiend bytes in the payload when processing/decoding
14:16 <@roasbeef> atm they're just discarded
14:16 < Ylbam> I still have a lot of things to learn apparently ;)
14:16 <@roasbeef> hehe
14:16 <@roasbeef> the recent global backwards incompatible change finally started to populate the payloads
14:16 <@roasbeef> have some follow up work locally related to fees, but traveling atm and not able to code much
14:17 < Ylbam> and @roasbeef replicants are not available yet ;)
14:18 <@roasbeef> but yeh with that API, you won't need to create an invoice neccerilsy to pay soeone
14:18 <@roasbeef> er receive an invoice
14:18 <@roasbeef> or just do extra-protocol stuff like the games
14:18 <@roasbeef> global feature vectors can be used to denote if a node understands what you're trying to do or not
14:19 <@roasbeef> then other versioning/paramter stuff in the per-hop payloads
14:19 <@roasbeef> with that API, doing things like atomic multi-participant payments is possible too
14:20 <@roasbeef> peeps basically get together, plan out route, then along the way payees "inject" funds into the route to satisfy all the forwarding constraints and fees
14:20 < Ylbam> Is it described somewhere in details?
14:22 <@roasbeef> hmm don't think so
14:22 <@roasbeef> we've talked about starting to maintain a wiki with stuff like this
14:23 < Ylbam> Yep would be good idea, I need to read things 20 times, before starting to understand and memorize them ;)
14:23 <@roasbeef> will prob end up on the rfc repo, and i'll set up a redirect from lightning.wiki
14:23 < Ylbam> sounds like some kind of LN 2.0 ;)
14:24 <@roasbeef> heh, this is all possible w/ the current version
14:24 <@roasbeef> wait till you see what'll go into 1.1 ;)
14:24 <@roasbeef> or w/e we call it
14:25 < Ylbam> waiting impatiently ;)
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15:45 < whythat> Hi there! I finally finished my bachelor's thesis and have a few months of FOSS-time:). So where's most of the work concentrated?
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20:31 < mol> whythat, wat
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