--- Day changed Tue Aug 29 2017
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00:25 < lndbot3> <justin> I'll paste an invoice in a bit when near a computer
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02:21 < johanth> thorie: here's a pay req if you still need: yqn8yuxz9efcdugqeefme347abwj4eicinm3ba7tfwtz51snyach41nwb5bwwuy911bpiq74ocoohtqdo5fhcp6g98qy76eidxxxp5ewyyyyyyyyyyn739yndu1o
02:21 < johanth> Emcy_: currently the channel initiator pays the fees
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02:51 < horlicks_> What's a reasonable amount of RAM I'd need to run lnd+neutrino?
02:58 < johanth> 1 GB should be enough I think
02:59 < johanth> you might be able to run it with just 512 MB also, but I haven't tried that
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03:36 < alt0id> hey anyone really good at ecdsa? im trying to figure out how https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_Digital_Signature_Algorithm
03:37 < alt0id> where is the r and s in the transaction script?
03:37 < alt0id> how do i get the z
03:40 < johanth> take a look at signature here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_Digital_Signature_Algorithm
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03:40 < johanth> basically the signature contains the r and s concatenated
03:41 < cdecker> roasbeef, sorry for the delay. I was unaware seashells.io was ephemeral as well, so here's two new logs (including the messages sent): https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f34534f3e4c619a69d1c60f30eb8c62c and https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7f2ea780af0d8029a0f658e4f8c87ec7
03:41 < cdecker> The first one is c-lightning -> lnd and the second one is lnd -> c-lightning
03:45 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] halseth opened pull request #296: Update docker readme. (master...docker-readme-fix) https://git.io/v5nJt
03:46 < alt0id> johanth: can you pls take a moment? https://blockchain.info/tx/77e744f09156eaa54e0c0727c96ca6bdd3be95dcf6d22c0ddce177d896b82e2a so this is a random tx that i found, can you exactly tell me which part of that signature is the r and s part?
03:47 < alt0id> and how can i find out how to make the z out of that transaction?
03:50 < johanth> well, the signature will be part of the input script, you would need to parse it to tell exactly
03:50 < johanth> not sure what z you are referring to?
03:51 < alt0id> johanth: the hash thats parsed into the s
03:51 < johanth> ah, the hash used to create the signature?
03:51 < alt0id> yes     
03:53 < johanth> I think this might be a good source: https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-guide#signature-hash-types
03:53 < johanth> tldr: it depends on the sighash flag
03:56 < alt0id> johanth: so SIGHASH_ALL is the oldschool one? how does the data look like when im crafting a tx?
03:57 < johanth> I believe that's the standard, yeah
03:58 < alt0id> so when im also crafting the z for the sign, do i make a different hash for the inputs and outputs and sign them individually, or do i just concatinate the input and output part and then hash it?
03:58 < johanth> you basically add a set of of outputs and inputs to create a transaction, and then the sighash flag will determine what parts of the tx needs to be signed in order to spend it
03:58 < alt0id> johanth: can you like make a python example of it that works?
03:59 < alt0id> johanth: i mean
04:00 < alt0id> where you have the inputs like:
04:00 < johanth> I am by no means an expert on the nitty gritty details :) you can use any bitcoin library to create a tx, and then get the hash
04:00 < johanth> you can look at the source code if you want to know how it is done
04:05 < alt0id> johanth: https://pastebin.com/C71QLQMV
04:05 < alt0id> johanth: my coding skills are rotting by the day, my c++/c is nonexistant these days
04:14 < johanth> here's a go snippet that finds the R and S: https://pastebin.com/LwWZdefS
04:14 < johanth> outputs:
04:14 < johanth> R 37529858402740532905256810728982326125756949640914966723007997153518862732308
04:14 < johanth> S 31453762524592275271294807852577831198801871064394345605709548107545616003670
04:17 < alt0id> o man
04:17 < alt0id> thanks
04:17 < johanth> I think the hash you list is the txid, not the z you were talking about earlier
04:18 < johanth> take a look at these two: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/54688/is-the-bitcoin-transaction-id-also-the-hash-of-things-to-sign-for-the-signatur
04:18 < johanth> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3374/how-to-redeem-a-basic-tx
04:20 < johanth> btw, outputting R and S as hex reveals that the signature contains them:
04:20 < johanth> R 52f925a837fed0208555c2848cda8403cc3227307148bc2a1e6cd628c5f40c14
04:20 < johanth> S 458a32de2f4e8465878036cdbdafb3f83082057529045d7e8bc408b7643b3256
04:20 < johanth> you should be able to see those strings in there :)
04:37 < alt0id> johanth: whats the full script from that go snipper?
04:39 < johanth> ?     
04:39 < alt0id> https://pastebin.com/LwWZdefS
04:39 < alt0id> i cant seem to compile it
04:54 < johanth> what's the error?
04:54 < johanth> you will need to import btcec
04:55 < alt0id> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2376/ecdsa-r-s-encoding-as-a-signature
04:55 < alt0id> found it
04:55 < alt0id> how valid is this thread these days?
04:56 < alt0id> even found the way how z is made
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04:57 < johanth> nice!
04:57 < johanth> probably still valid :)
04:58 < johanth> things tend not to change in incompatible ways in bitcoin :P
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06:04 < alt0id> johanth: you still there? can we try to compile that code you got there? https://pastebin.com/LwWZdefS
06:05 < johanth> yep, what's the problem? :)
06:05 < alt0id> ok so i cant seem to compile that thing there
06:06 < alt0id> johanth: do you have a go and ready version of that in python?
06:06 < johanth> no, I'm not much of a python coder :P
06:07 < alt0id> johanth: am i missing something with that go thing? can i just plop that into a .go file and then compile it?
06:08 < johanth> heh, no
06:08 < johanth> I can create a runnable version for you
06:08 < alt0id> PLS     
06:11 < johanth> try this: https://pastebin.com/y0c4W2mM
06:12 < johanth> you must first download btcd: https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd
06:13 < johanth> then you can run the file (let's say it's called sign.go) by go run sign.go
06:13 < alt0id> johanth: do you maybe know how to stich up a sig with new r's and s's?
06:14 < Emcy_> when i just tried to make a payment to "starblocks" with a LN payment it failed with route not found. I dont have anny channels open, i assumed it would offer to open one automatically?
06:15 < Emcy_> this is with eclair wallet testnet also
06:38 < thorie> johanth: i got a payment_error "UnknownNextPeer" - https://pastebin.com/Zf0ta3rp
06:39 < Emcy_> can 2 eclair wallets open a channel yet?
06:42 < johanth> alt0id: you can use btcec.Signature{R: <r>, S: <s>} or something like that
06:42 < johanth> Emcy_: if you are using lnd then we don't expect it to be compatible with eclair (which startblocks is using) yet
06:43 < johanth> eclair should be able to open channels to eclair ofc :P
06:43 < johanth> thorie: You need a channel open. Can you do lncli listchannels?
06:44 < Emcy_> interoperability is real close right? After all lightning is well specced and standardised
06:45 < thorie> johanth: https://pastebin.com/YhNfR2fT
06:45 < johanth> yeah, you can see status here: https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/index.html :)
06:46 < thorie> i opened a channel wth faucet.lightning.community
06:46 < johanth> thorie: good!
06:46 < johanth> looks fine
06:46 < johanth> where is the pay req coming from
06:46 < johanth> ?     
06:46 < thorie> so why do i get UnknownNextPeer?
06:47 < thorie> the pay req is the one you gave me above :)
06:47 < thorie> ~4 hours ago
06:47 < johanth> oh, haha
06:47 < johanth> might be outdated
06:47 < johanth> I'll get you a new one
06:47 < thorie> cool
06:47 < johanth> my node was not running
06:49 < johanth> try this one yqn8yuxz9efcdugqeefme347abwj4eicinm3ba7tfwtz51snyach5tkf4pirbhypcueirnuif85wqyshocz3rbtm45gm7na7aefcn5msyyyyyyyyyynprnhcdgby
06:52 < thorie> i think same issue
06:52 < thorie> 2017-08-29 06:48:27.151 [INF] DISC: Broadcasting batch of 1 new announcements
06:52 < thorie> 2017-08-29 06:50:47.217 [ERR] CRTR: Attempt to send payment c545d36a40f00d64d1520a7529f74702dc832f92062b
06:52 < thorie> d6ccbe8b1dc20ac16d76 failed: UnknownNextPeer
06:52 < Emcy_> how exactly do you open a channel between 2 eclair wallets
06:53 < thorie> johanth: do i need to open some ports on my firewall to make it work?
06:53 < thorie> i have testnet 18333 open
06:54 < johanth> no, you shouldn't have to if you are already connected to some nodes
06:54 < thorie> ok     
06:54 < johanth> can you generate a pay req for me, and I'll pay you?
06:54 < thorie> yes     
06:54 < thorie> how do i generate one :)
06:55 < johanth> Emcy_: this room is for lnd, I haven't played around with eclair, so I don't know :)
06:58 < Emcy_> youre right sorry
07:00 < cdecker> Emcy_, eclair devs are on #lightning-dev and we have interop discussions there ^^
07:01 < thorie> i don't know how to generate a pay req
07:01 < thorie> is this what you need? "identity_pubkey": "0396a1e7d641f691385dab35867491a9e630610f1c962d522050c35aea18ead7c0",
07:02 < johanth> my node was out of date, can you try paying to that invoice again? :)
07:02 < thorie> wait i figured it out
07:02 < thorie> yqmkd36se85jnqn7ic4ac7rti8udyaexd1mn4wtykdbii4oa7mmhybzabmgj698dd9rhfnpckypjjxgistdsrzn6nkhehsrks7ecdjfnyyyyyyyyyyngfwqwu4gy
07:02 < thorie> sure, i'll try yours too
07:02 < thorie> can you try mine
07:03 < johanth> hm, I'm also getting UnknownNextPeer
07:03 < johanth> might be there's no path between us in the graph
07:04 < johanth> you can try " lncli describegraph --render" and check if your node is connected to the rest of the graph
07:05 < thorie> i ran queryroutes to your destination and it seems to have a path
07:06 < thorie> https://pastebin.com/z5Ex6PB6
07:07 < johanth> interesting, then there's something else that's wrong
07:08 < thorie> http://imgur.com/a/VUGTB
07:08 < thorie> looks connected to me
07:09 < johanth> yep, something else is off
07:11 < thorie> can we try to open a channel between us, rather than route it?
07:12 < johanth> can you try paying one her: https://ln-articles.herokuapp.com
07:12 < johanth> yeah, we can also try that :)
07:12 < thorie> i don't have any testnet coins
07:12 < thorie> my walletbalance is 0
07:12 < johanth> but you have a channel to the faucet?
07:12 < johanth> lncli channelbalance
07:12 < thorie> yeah i do
07:13 < thorie> channelbalance is  "balance": "100000"
07:14 < johanth> should be enough to try to pay the above website :)
07:15 < thorie> even if i have no money i can pay?
07:16 < thorie> same error: unknwon next peer
07:17 < johanth> I can open a channel to you
07:17 < johanth> what's your pubkey?
07:18 < johanth> and ip
07:18 < thorie> 0396a1e7d641f691385dab35867491a9e630610f1c962d522050c35aea18ead7c0@71.19.150.176
07:20 < johanth> I'll open one
07:21 < thorie> ok     
07:22 < Emcy_> any plans to abstract away the need to handle a peers ip address to open a channel.
07:23 < Emcy_> You could use the pubkey in a key:value pair in a DHT would do it
07:23 < johanth> unable to connect to you thorie
07:23 < johanth> not sure why
07:23 < thorie> that's why i thought it was my firewall
07:24 < johanth> maybe my channels are inactive :P
07:24 < johanth> I'll open a new one to the faucet
07:24 < thorie> yeah maybe same here
07:35 < alt0id> johanth: hey
07:35 < alt0id> can we back up a bit on the z question
07:35 < alt0id> so is the z = unsigned transaction double hash?
07:51 < Emcy_> doesnt lnd/the other implementations have good hole punching yet?
07:51 < Emcy_> that is going to be very important for preventing too much centralisation
07:52 < Emcy_> it will suck balls if the only reason people connect to a few huge hubs instead of each other is they cant get an open port :/
07:56 < johanth> it will be worked on later on :)
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08:19 < Emcy_> ok     
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08:51 < alt0id> johanth: hmmm, reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_Digital_Signature_Algorithm again
08:51 < alt0id> how do i calculate s^-1 mod n
08:51 < alt0id> the inverse
08:52 < alt0id> hmmm, it would be interesting to find out how to get public k also
08:52 < alt0id> from a signature
08:52 < molz> 1/s mod n ?
08:53 < alt0id> molz: does that honestly work? isnt there a problem with running into floating point problems?
08:53 < molz> no idea
08:55 < johanth> https://sourcegraph.com/github.com/btcsuite/btcd@3cb87afa2fc078efc2b12d16458cce15daab311c/-/blob/btcec/signature.go#L425-426
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09:10 < Emcy_> can someone show me what a channel open txn looks like in a blockexplorer
09:10 < Emcy_> im having trouble finding mine
09:11 < aakselrod> it goes to a segwit address... you don't really see the script until it's redeemed, like p2sh
09:16 < Emcy_> i just want to see what it looks like overall
09:17 < aakselrod> you can do a `lncli listchannels` or `lncli pendingchannels` to see the txids
09:17 < Emcy_> right
09:17 < aakselrod> i don't have a constantly-running lnd right now since i'm moving so i can't show you one of mine, or i would :(
09:18 < Emcy_> no worry
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11:29 <@roasbeef> alt0id: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_multiplicative_inverse
11:30 <@roasbeef> Emcy_: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/185
11:31 <@roasbeef> UnknownNextPeer is an in-protocol routing error, doesn't indicate any larger issues, in that case the "gateway" peer for your target peer was prob offline
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13:38 < alt0id> roasbeef: so 5^-1 mod 11 == 6?
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14:40 -github-neutrino:#lnd- [neutrino] aakselrod pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5cEO
14:40 -github-neutrino:#lnd- neutrino/master 3c5b675 Alex: blockmanager: fix panic when inv received and syncPeer is nil
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15:22 -github-neutrino:#lnd- [neutrino] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5c2K
15:22 -github-neutrino:#lnd- neutrino/master 786bf19 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: build: update btcd commit in glide files to latest version...
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15:24 < light1> Hey, i have a question about how much data every party must store in 2way payment channel?
15:24 < light1> as i can see one needs to store ALL pre images to prevent a cheat
15:24 < light1> each pre image is 16 bytes
15:25 < light1> so 1M requests back and forth would be 16 Mb from each side to store
15:25 < light1> or is there any way to store just last, up to date pre-image that would penalize any previous state cheat?
15:26 -github-neutrino:#lnd- [neutrino] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5caL
15:26 -github-neutrino:#lnd- neutrino/master 69a3bce Olaoluwa Osuntokun: build: update glide to point to latest btcwallet
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15:34 <@roasbeef> light1: don't need to store all the pre-images (if you mean revocations?), there's a technique we use to make that storage have space complexity of logn where n is the number of states
15:38 < light1> yeah, revocations. I haven't looked into your implementation yet. Can you in short explain how much i would store for 1M requests?
15:39 < light1> i.e. 1m states
15:39 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5cVC
15:39 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master af52aa8 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: build: update glide commit hash to latest btcd+neutrino...
15:40 <@roasbeef> you'd need 20 or so hashes in this revocation tree, 6 or so keys, the payment hashes involved in the HTLC's, and some constants that are used within the scripts (CLTV, CSV, etc)
15:44 <@roasbeef> you can actually store the 20-byte intermediate of the payment hashes
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15:45 < light1> sounds interesting, is there specific page with docs? Also, do you have any implementation in JS?
15:46 <@roasbeef> no js impl, though chjj has started one
15:46 <@roasbeef> light1: check out https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc for our specs
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16:22 <@roasbeef> kek: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/264#discussion_r135936457
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17:25 < thorie> anyone want to help me try a payment with lnd?
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18:05 < Emcy> >justice transactions
18:05 < Emcy> fuk yeah
18:06 < Emcy> ill take you to bitcourt then your coins go to bitjail in my wallet
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