--- Day changed Tue Feb 06 2018 00:01 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aedijhhoyodqthwo] has joined #lnd 00:09 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@gateway/tor-sasl/lnostdal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11 -!- Mark__ [5bd4cf04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.207.4] has joined #lnd 00:18 -!- richard87 [~richard87@237.92-221-98.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21 -!- richard87 [~richard87@237.92-221-98.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lnd 00:24 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:26 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lnd 00:41 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:8ceb:50f:b693:e557] has joined #lnd 00:51 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lnd 00:54 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Quit: dionysus69] 01:01 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #lnd 01:02 -!- Pioklo_ [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has joined #lnd 01:03 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 01:07 -!- bryan_w [~is@2600:2108:9:8a90:5a69:d114:68b8:dae2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has joined #lnd 01:09 < ChunkyPuffs> Hey guys 01:10 < ChunkyPuffs> how do coins get out of lightning network? 01:10 < ChunkyPuffs> You dissolve your payment channel right? 01:10 < ChunkyPuffs> Do you only get as many coins to spend as that initial opening of a payment channel? 01:10 < ChunkyPuffs> Or can I add in more later without having to commit another on chain transaction to open a payment channel? 01:11 < ChunkyPuffs> Say I have 1 bitcoin, I'm testing out lightning. Great, I open a payment channel. Now I can use that 1 bitcoin. But how do I use more than one bitcoin, should I decide to add more later? 01:12 < Veggen> you probably open another channel. 01:13 < Veggen> and please remember, if you receive lightning ransactions, it will fill up your balance again. 01:14 < Veggen> there won't really be that much need for closing a channel, unless you need liquidity outside lightning. 01:15 < zyp> a payment channel consists of one transaction that creates a multisig output and one transaction that divides that output between the two participants in the channel 01:15 < ChunkyPuffs> Right. But I still need to open a new channel for every time I want to add more satoshis into my balance? 01:15 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: colatkinson] 01:15 < ChunkyPuffs> My friend just brought it up, how you get bitcoin in and out of lightning, and I knew the in part, just not the out. 01:15 < Veggen> you close a channel. 01:15 < ChunkyPuffs> And then I thought "how do I get more in.." 01:16 < ChunkyPuffs> like, if I'm getting paid on a regular basis, I don't want to commit more expensive on-chain payments for opening up a new channel, each time my wage comes in. 01:16 < Veggen> for now, you'd open a new channel. 01:16 < zyp> the first transaction is broadcast and mined to open the channel, the second transaction is kept unpublished and updated every time you transact over the channel, to redistribute the balance 01:16 < ChunkyPuffs> How many confirmations are required to open the payment channel? 01:16 < zyp> to get the funds out, you publish the final version of the second transaction 01:17 < Veggen> it will anyhow have to be a new on-chain transaction, and a new channel (preferably a different place in network) increases your chance in future to find a good path to pay. 01:17 < ChunkyPuffs> I imagine an hour waiting for 6 is a bit much for people. 01:17 < Veggen> I believe you can immediately (after one confirmation) can use it to pay, but it won't be used for routing before 6. 01:18 < zyp> I'm not sure what the spec states, but the testnet nodes seem to require 2-3 blocks to consider a channel open 01:18 < zyp> it seems to vary between implementations 01:18 < ChunkyPuffs> If a node decides to run off, what happens? 01:18 < ChunkyPuffs> you get the funds, right? 01:18 < Veggen> yah. 01:18 < ChunkyPuffs> Not just YOUR funds, the funds you had in the payment channel, but extraneous funds, of some sort, correct? 01:18 < ChunkyPuffs> Andreas implied something of this sort. 01:18 < zyp> if your counterparty runs off, you can do an unilateral close by publishing the latest transaction you've got 01:19 < zyp> no, you only get your funds 01:19 < ChunkyPuffs> Can I think of the whole thing as a smart contract? 01:19 < Veggen> zyp: If he tries to run off with an old balance, you can claim his funds too, no? 01:19 < zyp> Veggen, yes, but that's a different situation 01:20 < ChunkyPuffs> So, a node operator stakes his bitcoin. His bitcoin are locked? 01:20 < ChunkyPuffs> He can't run off with that bitcoin, on chain? 01:20 < Veggen> ...or enabled. 01:20 < Veggen> no, he'd have to close the channel. 01:20 < zyp> Veggen, that's the same thing, basically 01:21 < ChunkyPuffs> And what if you're not around for a day, whilst he closes the channel? 01:21 < ChunkyPuffs> closing channels requires two people or something? 01:21 < zyp> no 01:21 < zyp> but you get your part 01:21 < ChunkyPuffs> hence multi-sig 01:21 < ChunkyPuffs> right, so your balance is always preserved when making autopilot connections? 01:21 < ChunkyPuffs> All of this is handled behind the scenes? 01:21 < zyp> when you open a channel, you put funds into a multisig output, you hold one key to it, the counterparty holds one key to it 01:22 -!- diackca [~smuxi@41-184-172-161.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, but the traditional model is that you open up individual channels with organizations, which is not how this is going to be used. 01:22 < zyp> but at the same time, you both also sign a transaction spending this output, dividing it between you according to your current balance 01:22 < Veggen> He can try to broadcast an old balance. if he does, he'l not be able to claim his payout for a long time, making long time for you to claim yours - and his - funds. 01:22 < zyp> every time you transact over the channel, you both sign a new transaction reflecting the updated balance, and invalidate the previous one 01:22 < ChunkyPuffs> Instead autopilot is running, and you're telling me that a balance for you is kept on every connection that is made, and the channels you connect to never have access to your coins because of this? 01:23 < Veggen> And there will be third-party watchers you can use if you are not running a 24/7 node (or if you want extra secuity in case your node goes down) 01:23 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, that's the part andreas was talking about 01:23 < Veggen> ChunkyPuff: All your counterparty can try to do, is publish an old balance. 01:24 < Veggen> if you have a channel where you only pay and never receive, you're completely safe. 01:24 < ChunkyPuffs> Just to help me visualize this myself. Can you tell me if I'm correct in the analogy that you own a share in a node's staked bitcoin the moment autopilot connects to it? 01:24 < zyp> autopilot is not really relevant here 01:24 < ChunkyPuffs> like virtualizing private keys or something 01:24 < ChunkyPuffs> like, you are assigned a private key to a portion of a node's bitcoin when a payment channel is opened? 01:25 < ChunkyPuffs> You own a chunk of that bitcoin, via concensus, via the network rules 01:25 < zyp> that sounds wrong 01:25 < ChunkyPuffs> I just have a hard time visualizing how you objectively own that bitcoin, without someone being able to run off with it. 01:25 < dionysus69> hey all 01:25 < ChunkyPuffs> Since I'm stuck in the days of owning your own private key 01:25 -!- drrty [~newuser@209.205.124.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25 < dionysus69> I did lncli create and created a wallet 01:25 < Veggen> not a nodes. Rather, you and the channel partner(node) decides to dedicate an amount each to a separate address on the network. That address is the channel. 01:25 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, you always own your own private key 01:26 < dionysus69> then I started lnd and did lncli unlock 01:26 < dionysus69> but I am getting this error 01:26 < dionysus69> unable to start wallet: status code: 401, response: "" 01:26 < ChunkyPuffs> I know. lightning has nothing to do with private keys, it's all about using someone else's bitcoin. 01:26 < dionysus69> unable to create chain control: status code: 401, response: "" 01:26 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, no 01:26 -!- berndj [~berndj@mail.azna.co.za] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:26 -!- drrty [~drrty@209.205.124.54] has joined #lnd 01:26 < ChunkyPuffs> Well, the multisig gives you access to your bitcoin virtually, through the payment channel, I get that. 01:27 < Veggen> Chunky: think of a lightning channel as an unsubmitted transaction with two outputs. yours and your channel partners. 01:27 < ChunkyPuffs> And I just have a hard time visualizing how your ownership is preserved as you make connections behind the scenes. 01:27 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, okay, let's make an example 01:27 < Veggen> now, you can update that transaction, but it has to be signed by both keys. 01:27 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, let's say I open a channel to you, funding it with 100 mBTC 01:28 < ChunkyPuffs> but that would never happen, would it? 01:28 < ChunkyPuffs> Like, that requires an on-chain transaction. 01:28 < zyp> what happens now is that I fund a multisig output, which I hold one key to, you hold one key to it 01:28 < ChunkyPuffs> I want to make a payment to starbucks, mcdonalds, you, andreas antonopolous. How do I do this without opening 4 payment channels? 01:29 < zyp> but before I publish that transaction onchain, we both sign a new transaction that spends that output, giving 100 mBTC to me and 0 mBTC to you 01:29 < zyp> you're getting ahead of yourself 01:29 < ChunkyPuffs> I get that contract. 01:29 < ChunkyPuffs> I just don't get how it's preserved in THAT scenario 01:29 < Veggen> ChunkyPuff: a transaction can pass multiple channels. 01:29 < ChunkyPuffs> Where there's 4 people I want to spend money on, and I only have 1 payment channel, and my bitcoin is running through tons of nodes, and the ownership of the bitcoin is preserved. 01:30 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30 < dionysus69> so does anyone know a potential reason behind unable to start wallet: status code: 401, response: "" ? 01:31 < ChunkyPuffs> I get it on the individual level. I just don't understand how autopilot works, or how I can 'pass multiple channels', etc. 01:31 < zyp> autopilot doesn't have anything to do with it, you're asking about transaction routing now 01:31 < ChunkyPuffs> So what does autopilot do? 01:31 < Veggen> ChunkyPuff: this is a series of "I will pay you, if..." promises. This ends with your channel partner promising, cryptographically, to forward verything to the end (because he again has got those promises from the next channel).. 01:31 < ChunkyPuffs> finds the cheapest node with which to open a payment channel to? 01:31 < zyp> it automates the opening of channels to other nodes 01:31 < ChunkyPuffs> But won't the user only ever have to open one channel in their lifetime? 01:32 < ChunkyPuffs> Or minimal channels. 01:32 < zyp> yes 01:32 < ChunkyPuffs> So what use is finding one cheap node if a cheaper one pops up in the future? 01:32 < zyp> you can ignore the autopilot functionality completely 01:32 < zyp> it's not relevant to the normal working of LN 01:32 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, I assumed wrongly that autopilot was a continual process, continually finding the cheapest. 01:33 < ChunkyPuffs> Okay, so then, starting to make tons more sense. You only ever connect to one node for all activity in one payment channel. 01:33 < zyp> regarding transaction routing, it works like Veggen said 01:34 < zyp> when you route a transaction, you can only receive your payment on one channel if you can cryptographically prove that you've sent it on another channel 01:35 < ChunkyPuffs> Say I run a node, I have 10 bitcoin. I put 10 bitcoin in. Someone comes along and wants to push 5 bitcoin through my node on a payment channel. 01:36 < ChunkyPuffs> I want to get my 10 bitcoin out. But this fucker is simply storing his bitcoins on lightning network, using my node. How do I get my 10 bitcoins back out. 01:36 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 01:37 < zyp> "storing his bitcoins on lightning network, using my node" doesn't really make sense 01:37 < ChunkyPuffs> Yeah no, I mean 01:37 < ChunkyPuffs> Or, more, how and when am I able to take my 10 bitcoins back out. 01:37 < ChunkyPuffs> If someone is using half of my node's available btc. 01:37 < zyp> nobody is using your btc 01:38 < ChunkyPuffs> so what is the point of staking as a node? 01:38 < ChunkyPuffs> collateral? 01:39 < ChunkyPuffs> Thanks so much for explaining this, by the way. 01:39 < ChunkyPuffs> I want to set up my own node, but not before I truly fully understand it. 01:39 < ChunkyPuffs> I've been wanting to do it since the count was 200. 01:39 < ChunkyPuffs> I've got the chain synced, and I want those stickers lol. 01:40 -!- whphhg_ [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has joined #lnd 01:40 -!- whphhg [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41 -!- whphhg_ is now known as whphhg 01:41 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, so you are staking BTC in order to preserve the amount, in case you run off, that btc can be given out? 01:41 < dionysus69> ok I have a problem, lnd can't find bitcoin.conf under ~/.bitcoin/testnet3/bitcoin.conf 01:42 < dionysus69> does it look for it in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf? 01:42 < zyp> you are not "staking" BTC, you are allocating it to channel capacity 01:43 < zyp> let's get back to my example, I open a channel to you, with 100 mBTC capacity 01:43 < zyp> now I have put 100 mBTC into this channel 01:43 < zyp> and the current balance of the channel is reflected by an unpublished transaction that pays 100 mBTC back to me, 0 mBTC to you 01:44 < zyp> since the balance is 0 on your side of the channel, currently you can't send me anything over this channel, but I can send you up to 100 mBTC 01:45 < zyp> now, let's say I pay you 10 mBTC for something 01:45 < zyp> to do that, we construct and sign a new transaction that sends 90 mBTC to me, 10 mBTC to you 01:47 < zyp> now, if you want your 10 mBTC out, you can close the channel by publishing this transaction 01:47 < zyp> which means that of the 100 mBTC I originally put in, I get back the 90 mBTC I haven't spent, you get the 10 mBTC I paid you 01:48 < ChunkyPuffs> Right you update the contract..? 01:48 < ChunkyPuffs> I like to think about this as a contract 01:49 < zyp> the basic security of LN is based on the fact that either party can close a channel to take their share of the balance at any time, without cooperation of the other participant 01:49 < ChunkyPuffs> okay, but what's the incentive for a node to have a large capacity? 01:49 < ChunkyPuffs> If capacity is a goal 01:50 < zyp> well, I can't pay you 150 mBTC over this channel 01:51 < zyp> I wouldn't say capacity is a goal, capacity is the means to achieve the goal of sending the payment you want 01:53 < ChunkyPuffs> I'm talking more about larger hubs. 01:53 < ChunkyPuffs> like, an exchange running a node 01:53 < zyp> the main incentive for opening a channel is so that you can send payments through it, and the more capacity you give it, the larger transactions you can put into it 01:53 < ChunkyPuffs> what's the incentive of even implementing a large capacity for a large org? 01:53 < ChunkyPuffs> I thought this was all about fees and profi 01:53 < ChunkyPuffs> profit* 01:53 < zyp> you should stop focusing on hubs, the point is not to be able to make hubs 01:54 < ChunkyPuffs> No, I'm glad about that, I just interpreted it wrongly. 01:54 < ChunkyPuffs> Especially with how Andreas puts it. 01:55 < ChunkyPuffs> He mentions how larger orgs would probably become hubs, unless unable to legally comply because of the onion routing obscuring origin and recipient. 01:55 < ChunkyPuffs> And how you should run a node to earn fees. And he explicitly calls capacity staking. 01:55 -!- LN-Hero [c4345418@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.52.84.24] has joined #lnd 01:56 < LN-Hero> Hey, if anyone needs some help setting up a LND node, please see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLWkOqo0Tak 01:56 < ChunkyPuffs> Staking, or capacity, I thought, offered collateral in the case of a malicious node.. 01:56 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl10-85-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lnd 01:57 < zyp> sort of 01:57 < ChunkyPuffs> LN-Hero, legendary, you really are a hero. 01:57 < LN-Hero> :P 01:57 < ChunkyPuffs> I've been looking for a linux tutorial for ages, I fucking love you. 01:58 < LN-Hero> Great! Let me know if it works for you. I've never used Ubuntu before so it's a start-from-scratch tutorial 01:58 < ChunkyPuffs> Are you sure you're not Frankie Boyle? 01:58 < LN-Hero> haha, pretty sure ;) 01:59 < ChunkyPuffs> Rather uncanny 01:59 < ChunkyPuffs> He was on Max Keiser's show lmao 01:59 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, as for the incentive of opening channels, I take a pretty simple view to it 01:59 < ChunkyPuffs> Frankie Boyle is definitely Satoshi. 01:59 < LN-Hero> If he was Satoshi then I think we're all in a lot of trouble. Goodness knows what Frankie Boyle would do with that fortune....:) 02:00 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, when you want to make a payment, you first check if you already have a viable route to make this payment through existing channels, if you don't, you'll open a new channel directly to the recipient with enough capacity to make the payment 02:00 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:01 < ChunkyPuffs> He would definitely create a communist paradise. 02:01 < ChunkyPuffs> Whatever that is. 02:02 < ChunkyPuffs> zyp, so how exactly does the user experience look to be panning out if you have to be making so many individual channel openings with arbitrary amounts of bitcoin? 02:02 < ChunkyPuffs> In that scenario, opening a channel is doubly costly as making a normal bitcoin transaction. 02:02 < ChunkyPuffs> It only makes sense if you only ever have to open one channel. 02:02 < ChunkyPuffs> Opening a channel for a one time payment is doubly costly as a regular bitcoin transaction, I mean. 02:03 < zyp> only if you count closing it again as well 02:03 < ChunkyPuffs> Well I don't see it as valid at all. 02:03 < ChunkyPuffs> That is not the user experience I had in mind. 02:04 < ChunkyPuffs> I can't have to open a payment channel to mcdonalds, subway, burger king, and five guys. That's just silly. 02:04 < zyp> I haven't argued for doing that either 02:04 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lnd 02:04 < cjd[m]1> probably what will happen in practice is the major exchanges will become major hubs which everyone will have an open channel to all of the time 02:04 < cjd[m]1> and they'll have channels between eachother 02:04 < cjd[m]1> and for a small fee, they'll forward your payment for you 02:04 < cjd[m]1> a.k.a. banks 02:05 < cjd[m]1> except unlike banks, they can't just invent fractional reserve money 02:05 < rabidus> you are not forced to do so 02:05 < ChunkyPuffs> They won't be able to legally comply, with onion routing though. 02:05 < cjd[m]1> Depends on what jurisdiction they're located in :) 02:05 < ChunkyPuffs> I guess you're pretty right about that. 02:05 < ChunkyPuffs> I guess Omise will forward my payments then. 02:06 < cjd[m]1> Internet + National Law => Lol 02:06 < ChunkyPuffs> I don't have enough money to know what that means. 02:07 < ChunkyPuffs> What is this freedom you speak of? 02:07 < zyp> cjd[m]1, I view that as natural growth as well 02:07 < cjd[m]1> yup 02:07 < ChunkyPuffs> Thanks though zyp. 02:08 < ChunkyPuffs> I'm always amazed when random talking human beings exist in magical internet chatrooms and just give you an answer, despite having probably said the same thing 20 times prior. 02:08 < zyp> when you withdraw from an exchange, the exchange is now the part that wants to send you money, and thereby has to open a channel to you if there's not already a route to you 02:09 < ChunkyPuffs> Do you think they'll charge extraneous fees for that, like they already do on top of chain fees? 02:09 < ChunkyPuffs> or will it be so cheap for them to do this, that the fees will also lower on the exchange end? 02:09 < zyp> and once you have withdrawn in that way, you now have an open channel towards the exchange which you can route outbound payments through 02:10 < ChunkyPuffs> I have kept in mind that the on-chain fees will lower due to a lack of mempool congestion, since most micro transactions will be done on LN 02:10 < ChunkyPuffs> Oh.. 02:10 < ChunkyPuffs> oh my 02:10 < ChunkyPuffs> I always understood that it was going to be 6 degrees of separation, with regards to that 02:10 < cjd[m]1> Oh, btw, cross-chain atomic swaps: in development ? 02:11 < cjd[m]1> possible ? 02:11 < ChunkyPuffs> But you're saying, that because exchanges, and others, will have to open payments *to you*, you'll almost instantly have access to the world. 02:11 < ChunkyPuffs> And maybe even coinbase in the end, the entrance point for crypto. 02:12 < zyp> yes 02:12 < ChunkyPuffs> So the first thing you ever do is open a payment channel with which to receive your bitcoins anyway, which is never closed. 02:12 < ChunkyPuffs> What I now would kill to understand, is how the relaying of a transaction would work. 02:12 < cjd[m]1> is there any documentation on the way lightning will achieve cross-chain swaps ? 02:12 -!- berndj [~berndj@mail.azna.co.za] has joined #lnd 02:14 < ChunkyPuffs> Charlie Lee has done stuff on it 02:14 < zyp> ChunkyPuffs, okay, let's go back to my earlier example, where I have open a channel to you, with 90 mBTC on my side and 10 mBTC on your side 02:14 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, but can I change it a bit? I have payment channels with all of my friends, lets say. 02:15 < ChunkyPuffs> But a friend of a friend does not have a direct payment channel with another friend, but they both have me in common. 02:15 < cjd[m]1> ChunkyPuffs: this is an excellent description of how the underlying protocol should work: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-building-a-bidirectional-payment-channel-1464710791/ 02:15 < zyp> yes, let's say you also have open a payment channel to a friend, let's say you have used it a bit already so the balance there is 50/50 02:15 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16 < zyp> and now I want to pay your friend 25 mBTC 02:16 < ChunkyPuffs> but you have no payment channel to him? 02:16 < zyp> correct 02:16 < ChunkyPuffs> just to me 02:16 < zyp> now, to route this transaction, you want a fee of 1 mBTC 02:16 < zyp> so I'll pay you 26 mBTC if you pay him 25 mBTC 02:17 -!- MaxSan [~user@91.207.102.163] has joined #lnd 02:17 < ChunkyPuffs> Nice. 02:17 < ChunkyPuffs> but this is all facilitated automatically? 02:17 < ChunkyPuffs> Like, how do you do this without my consent? 02:18 < ChunkyPuffs> Surely it can't be conditional? I didn't think that was how it worked. 02:18 < ChunkyPuffs> I thought you could magically route payments through anyone running a light node. 02:18 < zyp> now, I'm uncertain of the exact sequence here, but we generate a new balance transaction for our channel, now saying 64/36, and you also update the balance with your friend to say 25/75 02:19 < ChunkyPuffs> Wow.. okay, so you just update the balance sheets 02:19 < zyp> and the contracts involved are constructed so that you can't claim the 26 mBTC from me before you have provably paid the 25 mBTC to your friend 02:19 < ChunkyPuffs> That's crazy 02:20 < zyp> now, your channel balances changed from 50 to 25 on one channel and from 10 to 36 on the other channel 02:20 < ChunkyPuffs> Do you think there's going to be much of an opportunity to make real profit running a node? 02:20 < zyp> in sum they went up by the 1 mBTC you claimed in fees 02:20 < zyp> probably not 02:20 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@122x212x155x26.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lnd 02:20 < ChunkyPuffs> It's just going to be completely evenly distributed? 02:20 < zyp> I imagine competition will turn the fees into a race to the bottom 02:21 < ChunkyPuffs> you can't have altruistic nodes though. 02:21 < ChunkyPuffs> Forever. 02:21 < ChunkyPuffs> And you can imagine the demand for LN will be incredible. 02:21 < cjd[m]1> I expect that the profit made from running the node will be related to the amount of capital which you need in order to maintain the channels 02:21 < zyp> consider that if everybody has some channels each, there will be a lot of parallel routes between you and whoever you want to make a payment to 02:21 < zyp> and you're free to pick the cheapest route 02:21 < cjd[m]1> but there is going to be some serious liquidity crunch once everyone is trying to setup channels 02:21 < ChunkyPuffs> Right but you're making the payment sound manual. 02:21 < ChunkyPuffs> And that couldn't last 02:21 < cjd[m]1> so there will be some kind of a borrowing market for btc (I expect) 02:21 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl10-85-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:22 < ChunkyPuffs> Cheapest, longest route. 02:22 < cjd[m]1> routing algorithms which find cheapest routes are really old technology :) 02:22 < ChunkyPuffs> Gotta wait for someone to relay the money, right? 02:22 < zyp> picking the cheapest route already happens automatically 02:22 < zyp> so does forwarding payments 02:22 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@122x212x155x26.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22 < ChunkyPuffs> But forwarding payments = waiting for someone to click a tick sign, right? 02:22 < zyp> no 02:22 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@122x212x155x26.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lnd 02:22 < zyp> it happens all automatically 02:23 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, awesome. 02:23 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@122x212x155x26.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:23 < ChunkyPuffs> Now I just want a dns system. 02:23 < cjd[m]1> zyp: do you happen to know if cross-chain atomic swaps are going to be possible ? 02:23 < ChunkyPuffs> so I can send a payment to zyp.btc 02:23 < zyp> you just configure your node how much you want to claim in fees, it'll forward anything that pays the fee 02:24 < zyp> cjd[m]1, I though that had already been demonstrated 02:24 < ChunkyPuffs> You think all of this will be implemented in zap? 02:24 < ChunkyPuffs> Including the payment relays? 02:24 < ChunkyPuffs> I've been slaving away on the command line, will I even need to? 02:24 < zyp> relaying payments is already implemented in lnd, it's below what zap does 02:25 < cjd[m]1> zyp: excellent, do you know if there is any good documentation around which explains the exact dance which you have to do in order to make the cross-chain swap ? 02:25 < zyp> cjd[m]1, I have no idea 02:25 < cjd[m]1> ok 02:25 < cjd[m]1> I'll just ask Aaron van Wirdum, haven't talked to him in a while :) 02:25 < ChunkyPuffs> Right, thank you so much mr magical talking being that answers my questions unconditionally. 02:26 < ChunkyPuffs> I'm gonna nap. 02:26 < ChunkyPuffs> I'll set up a node when I wake. 02:26 < dionysus69> I have cookie based rpcauth authentication 02:26 < zyp> cjd[m]1, I assume the atomic mechanism is the same as the one used for forwarding payments 02:26 < dionysus69> but lnd doesn't look for in ~/.bitcoin/testnet3/bitcoin.conf 02:27 < dionysus69> where does the bitcoin.conf need to be located? 02:27 < dionysus69> I tried looking at the source but the path is still unclear 02:27 < dionysus69> so basically I cannot let lnd authentication with rpcuser rpcpass, how do I make it use cookie instead? 02:34 < cjd[m]1> Aaron confirmed, exact same trick 02:34 < zyp> makes sense 02:38 -!- conundrum_ [~conundrum@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 02:38 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: colatkinson] 02:43 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.46.10.61] has joined #lnd 02:43 -!- conundrum_ [~conundrum@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 02:46 -!- nimbosa [8269ceb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.105.206.185] has joined #lnd 03:11 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aedijhhoyodqthwo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:15 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has joined #lnd 03:20 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lnd 03:20 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27 -!- HuLsH [4f656366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.101.99.102] has joined #lnd 03:27 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.46.10.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:28 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.170.143] has joined #lnd 03:29 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lnd 03:31 -!- whphhg [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32 -!- whphhg [~whphhg@unaffiliated/whphhg] has joined #lnd 03:33 -!- LN-Hero [c4345418@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.52.84.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:34 -!- HuLsH [4f656366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.101.99.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39 < dionysus69> getting this error on compile 03:39 < dionysus69> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/890567951b82a73681e2658f86a900b7 03:39 < dionysus69> c-lightning 03:40 -!- wxss [~user@80.179.42.10.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lnd 03:42 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 03:49 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@190.140.125.142] has joined #lnd 03:57 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@190.140.125.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05 < waxwing> roasbeef, i can see why you are choosing AEZ (arb length and AE) but i worry about it being too new/not widely used? 04:06 < waxwing> slides 16-18 here for algo - simples! http://www.nuee.nagoya-u.ac.jp/labs/tiwata/diac2016/slides/diac2016_20_Phillip.pdf 04:08 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lnd 04:11 < dionysus69> why does lncli need to create a wallet? 04:11 < dionysus69> I thought lnd was just using bitcoin wallet 04:16 < Sentineo> it was not 04:16 < Sentineo> it uses bitcoind as the backend to interface with the blockchain 04:16 < Sentineo> it would not be a good idea to have the wallet there imho 04:16 < waxwing> or btcd 04:16 -!- flvr [b03b04f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.59.4.241] has joined #lnd 04:17 < dionysus69> so what does the lnd wallet keep? 04:17 < Sentineo> lnd is to interface with the lightning network 04:17 < dionysus69> and which file is wallet file out of these 04:17 < dionysus69> admin.macaroon data lnd.conf logs readonly.macaroon tls.cert tls.key 04:17 < Sentineo> so it needs bitcoind/btcd for on chain stuff only 04:17 < dionysus69> yes I am using bitcoind for backend 04:20 < Sentineo> there is a wallet.dat file under lnd in: .lnd/data/bitcoin/testnet 04:25 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:25 < Mark__> lnd contains a bitcoin wallet 04:25 < Mark__> it has to fund the initial tx when creating a channel 04:26 < Mark__> and that happens on-chain 04:29 < waxwing> roasbeef, further to the above, did you look at OCB? 04:40 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@wnavab-n2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lnd 04:44 < dionysus69> and is LND wallet copy of the bitcoind wallet? how do btc funds get there though? 04:46 < zyp> bitcoind doesn't even need to run with a wallet 04:47 < zyp> lnd's wallet is completely independent 04:47 < zyp> lnd only relies on bitcoind to verify transactions 04:48 < Sentineo> dionysus69: you send them there 04:48 < Sentineo> as would for any other wallet 04:48 < dionysus69> wait 04:48 < Sentineo> just look at lnd as another bitcoin wallet, that has a layer 2 functionality added 04:48 < dionysus69> I thought the only transaction you would make was while opening and closing channel 04:49 < dionysus69> so additional transaction is needed to send funds to lnd wallet? 04:49 < zyp> dionysus69, that assumes you already have funds in the wallet 04:49 < dionysus69> aha 04:49 < dionysus69> I see 04:49 < dionysus69> lnd can only handle segwit transactions right? 04:49 < Sentineo> yes 04:49 < dionysus69> kk cool 04:49 < dionysus69> it's syncing atm 04:49 < dionysus69> taking long :S lol 04:49 < Sentineo> as you need segwit for lightning to work 04:50 < dionysus69> btw, can you recommend a nice starting place? 04:50 < dionysus69> how to open channel close, how can I act as a node, and how can I monitor if someone's tx passed through me 04:50 < dionysus69> basically I want to become LN literate, what's the best online resource for that 04:52 < Sentineo> not sure if and how you can do the "tx passes through me" thing ... 04:52 < Sentineo> I was playing with eclair ang Lightning - guis to get a better understanding 04:52 < Sentineo> cli only after that 04:53 < Sentineo> so maybe choose that aproach first 04:53 < Veggen> also, read logs. 04:53 < Sentineo> yep 04:54 < Sentineo> I run lnd manualy then I see all logs nicely, starting Lighning just after that (so it does not spin up its own lnd instance) 04:54 < Veggen> I keep all my logs. Not sure why LND purges after 3 per def :) 04:55 < Veggen> I rsync them into another directory so that they are not deleted. Because I want to go back and read what has happened. See who and how has transmitted through me. If everything went well, what kind of errors can happoen. Etc. 04:57 < dionysus69> thx btw 04:58 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.170.143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.170.143] has joined #lnd 05:00 < Sentineo> ok so seeing who routes through you is possible in the logs than 05:00 < Sentineo> Veggen: how does such a log entry look like? 05:04 < Veggen> I usuaully start searching for "AddH" :) 05:05 < dionysus69> 3 per def? what did mean ? 05:06 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has joined #lnd 05:10 < Veggen> Sentineo: Do some payments, read the logs :) 05:15 < dionysus69> which address types should I use? 05:15 < dionysus69> p2wkh, np2wkh, p2pkh 05:21 < Sentineo> I used np2wkh 05:27 < dionysus69> kk :) 05:29 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:30 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@190.140.125.142] has joined #lnd 05:38 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has joined #lnd 05:38 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lnd 05:50 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 06:04 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@wnavab-n2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05 -!- sovjet [~sovjet@193.189.166.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has joined #lnd 06:27 -!- flvr [b03b04f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.59.4.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:30 -!- Osso [~osso@2600:1700:37a0:1068::2] has joined #lnd 06:32 < bjh4> Why would the active flag change to "false" for an open channel? 06:33 < zyp> you're not connected to the remote node 06:35 -!- bryan_w [~is@2600:2108:9:8a90:5a69:d114:68b8:dae2] has joined #lnd 07:09 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #lnd 07:30 -!- LN-Hero [c4345409@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.52.84.9] has joined #lnd 07:38 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #lnd 07:46 < lio17> lnd and the lnd APIs are pretty awesome! ^5 :) 07:47 < lio17> great to work with <3 07:53 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has joined #lnd 08:19 -!- HuLsH [4f656366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.101.99.102] has joined #lnd 08:21 -!- HuLsH [4f656366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.101.99.102] has left #lnd [] 08:29 < Osso> my lnd is stuck in a futex(0x1520310, FUTEX_WAIT, 0, NULL 08:32 -!- booyah_ is now known as booyah 08:36 -!- bryan_w [~is@2600:2108:9:8a90:5a69:d114:68b8:dae2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:49 -!- LN-Hero [c4345409@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.52.84.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:54 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 08:56 -!- sovjet [~sovjet@user182.c2.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lnd 08:59 < Veggen> Hmm. To claim funds in force-closed channels, you'll need a node with a channel.db to watch it...if you wanted to upgrade, without losing these coins, couldn't you... 08:59 < Veggen> 1) Copy binaries and set ned $GOCODE/$PATH etc. 08:59 < Veggen> 2) Copy .lnd 08:59 < Veggen> 3) Run the copied binaries to the copy of .lnd? 09:00 < Veggen> ...and even, perhaps, keep wallet.db the same so that they actually eventually show up to use for your new channel.db, in your upgraded version? 09:01 < Veggen> yah, gonna try that. 09:05 -!- sangaman [uid279916@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aweplfoawsahwxgi] has quit [] 09:05 -!- sangaman [uid279916@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebojobqshvszxome] has joined #lnd 09:20 < Veggen> ok, my copy works...now to update original, and try run it in parallell with new channel.db :) 09:24 -!- iv4n2 [~iv4n@1.47.11.76] has joined #lnd 09:25 -!- tmus [~tmus@194.177.231.78] has joined #lnd 09:27 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.170.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:31 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:05 -!- sovjet [~sovjet@user182.c2.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:05 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has joined #lnd 10:08 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 10:09 -!- tmus [~tmus@194.177.231.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11 -!- iv4n2 [~iv4n@1.47.11.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28 < Osso> nvm it wasn't stuck it's just that lncli getinfo is not working 10:29 < Osso> lncli walletbalance works 10:35 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:3d27:764c:77d4:39c1] has joined #lnd 10:36 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:54 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:3d27:764c:77d4:39c1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:06 -!- nimbosa [8269ceb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.105.206.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11 -!- ch_ [a5786d9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.120.109.155] has joined #lnd 11:11 -!- ch_ [a5786d9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.165.120.109.155] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12 < blademccool> are nodes.lightning.directory and soa.nodes.lightning.directory busted? 11:13 < blademccool> i mean, i'm gonna open a channel to endurance anyway to bootstrap but noted errors on startup right now with fresh install 11:15 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has joined #lnd 11:18 -!- Soopaman [~soopaman@198.16.243.66] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:3d27:764c:77d4:39c1] has joined #lnd 11:39 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.11.76] has joined #lnd 11:56 < Veggen> endurance gives me an error, now: 11:56 < Veggen> vegard@engen-btc:~$ lncli openchannel 03933884aaf1d6b108397e5efe5c86bcf2d8ca8d2f700eda99db9214fc2712b134 10000000 11:56 < Veggen> [lncli] rpc error: code = Unknown desc = unable to find peer nodeID(03933884aaf1d6b108397e5efe5c86bcf2d8ca8d2f700eda99db9214fc2712b134), peerID(0) 11:56 < Veggen> v 11:57 < Veggen> (and I have connected to it (you can see peerID(0)) 12:02 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has joined #lnd 12:03 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:3d27:764c:77d4:39c1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:c532:83e9:f0e3:5] has joined #lnd 12:35 -!- tenev [~tenev@89.205.125.246] has joined #lnd 12:42 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:1c7e:e41e:918d:f972] has joined #lnd 12:43 -!- kunla [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:c532:83e9:f0e3:5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tteedxvlnbciitsy] has joined #lnd 12:56 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:1c7e:e41e:918d:f972] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:b4c3:49f:80d6:4f40] has joined #lnd 13:05 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@2001:8a0:4113:9a01:b4c3:49f:80d6:4f40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:23 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:24 -!- bitconto [~bitconto@179.43.151.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@moraine-229.dynamic.rpi.edu] has joined #lnd 13:28 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lnd 13:48 -!- Osso [~osso@2600:1700:37a0:1068::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lnd 14:08 -!- Pavle [~pavle_@unaffiliated/pavle/x-4679000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lnd 14:29 < cryptodechange> Is there a way to spend an unconfirmed balance (cpfp) 14:29 < cryptodechange> ? 14:30 < zyp> I don't think so, IIRC you can only spend confirmed UTXOs 14:34 < cryptodechange> I might put up my mainnet LND wallet up for someone to find a way to recover the £30 of BTC 14:34 < cryptodechange> Whoever manages it can keep it, as long as they tell me what I did wrong haha 14:36 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@2a01:c23:c022:e400:eb39:8238:c76b:4cbc] has joined #lnd 14:38 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@moraine-229.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: colatkinson] 14:59 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tteedxvlnbciitsy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:59 -!- tenev [~tenev@89.205.125.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@2a01:c23:c022:e400:eb39:8238:c76b:4cbc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:06 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@2a01:c23:c022:e400:eb39:8238:c76b:4cbc] has joined #lnd 15:11 -!- kunla1 [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 15:24 -!- iv4n [~iv4n@1.47.11.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:52 -!- marijnfs_ [~smuxi@2a01:c23:c022:e400:eb39:8238:c76b:4cbc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:8ceb:50f:b693:e557] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07 -!- dimsumcode__ [~dimsumcod@pool-96-241-129-137.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10 < asoltys> hi does anyone have any code examples of using macaroons with the streaming calls from the javascript rpc library like subscribeInvoices() or sendPayment()? 16:10 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mmlxsliyftdjjrfw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13 -!- georgeangel[m] [georgeange@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lbnsyqjaujgvitws] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:13 -!- shem[m] [shemmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ivvoaxnvgtfhjijc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13 -!- pierce [x43matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uappmclglsuziipw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hjglzupbodrctybt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14 -!- cjd[m]1 [cdelisle1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vpekqzzhdnbcjsyr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14 -!- rrol[m] [rrolmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nmthbqogdpmcghis] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:28 < blademccool> is there a good resource to read and learn more about macaroons? i know nothing beyond --no-macaroons heh 16:29 <@roasbeef> blademccool: realized I forgot to restart he DNS server, it's back up now 16:29 <@roasbeef> blademccool: http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/05/16/macaroons-are-better-than-cookies/ 16:30 <@roasbeef> asoltys: if you look at our desktop application you can see where we provide macaroons 16:30 <@roasbeef> Veggen: if you're not connecvted, you'll get that error, or it's possible they're dorpping the connection for ever eason 16:31 <@roasbeef> waxwing: yeh it's new-ish, but also it seems that Tor may pick it up themselves in the next version to stop a tagging attack 16:32 <@roasbeef> it also may very well win the CAESAR competition 16:32 <@roasbeef> another downside is that it isn't suuuper straight forward to implement from scratch 16:33 <@roasbeef> soz youre messing got lost in all the csrollback lol 16:33 <@roasbeef> isn't OCB patented? 16:45 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jqbtnizlnvbjkmcz] has joined #lnd 16:48 <@roasbeef> (also replied on the issue directly) 16:49 -!- wxss [~user@80.179.42.10.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52 -!- Pioklo_ [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53 -!- cjd[m] [cdelisle1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ltpjzldifadrdnws] has joined #lnd 16:53 -!- pierce [x43matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fhbqqlbwndjfuehm] has joined #lnd 16:53 -!- georgeangel[m] [georgeange@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdlxjzkmryoprohg] has joined #lnd 16:53 -!- rrol[m] [rrolmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-emfsxnttqlbrrnhc] has joined #lnd 16:53 -!- shem[m] [shemmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gpimxteultarlqqu] has joined #lnd 16:53 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ecfizruvdcehlsxs] has joined #lnd 17:00 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lnd 17:00 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #lnd 17:11 <@roasbeef> waxwing: also we're *kinda* going to use bip49, but would kinda of prefer to just use p2wkh change addresses 17:12 <@roasbeef> then we'll have something similar, but a p2wsh branch 17:18 <@roasbeef> actually, I just realized bip84 is a thing: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0084.mediawiki 17:19 <@roasbeef> also gonna remove p2pkh all together 17:19 <@roasbeef> it's legacy at this point 17:19 < mlz> :thumbsup: 17:23 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27 < asoltys> roasbeef: thanks, found it 17:41 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAvHJ 17:41 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 72a5bc8 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: build: update glide to point to new optimized sphinx version... 17:47 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 18:01 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 18:01 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 18:04 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 18:06 -github-neutrino:#lnd- [neutrino] Roasbeef pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAvQo 18:06 -github-neutrino:#lnd- neutrino/master 9836294 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: neutrino: add godoc strings for config arguments 18:06 -github-neutrino:#lnd- neutrino/master d8e8de8 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: test: restore tests to passing status after SendTransaction change... 18:07 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 18:18 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 18:21 <@roasbeef> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/737 18:22 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23 <@roasbeef> ^ adds docs for tor outbound and also stream isloation 18:27 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 18:27 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 18:33 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54 -!- georgeangel[m] [georgeange@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdlxjzkmryoprohg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55 -!- pierce [x43matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fhbqqlbwndjfuehm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55 -!- rrol[m] [rrolmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-emfsxnttqlbrrnhc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jqbtnizlnvbjkmcz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55 -!- cjd[m] [cdelisle1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ltpjzldifadrdnws] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ecfizruvdcehlsxs] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55 -!- shem[m] [shemmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gpimxteultarlqqu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:01 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 19:06 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 19:06 -!- bryan_w [~is@2600:2108:9:8a90:5a69:d114:68b8:dae2] has joined #lnd 19:11 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAvFI 19:11 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master a93736d practicalswift: multi: comprehensive typo fixes across all packages 19:12 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAvFY 19:12 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master bbc2ecd Alex Bosworth: routing: typo fix... 19:13 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAvFZ 19:13 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 8543497 Daniel McNally: multi: fixing it's/its typos in comments 19:22 -!- Styils [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 19:25 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAvbR 19:29 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 1afadf4 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: htlcswitch: properly rename struct in tests 19:30 -!- meteo [~meteo@52.201.229.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30 < blademccool> is there somethin about having a bunch of open channels (60+ actively to peers) that takes a ton of memory? or perhaps something else is going on. 19:30 < blademccool> a ton of memory being 2.5gb+ 19:33 -!- tuxx_ [~tuxx@bdn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33 <@roasbeef> blademccool: what commit are you on? a goroutine leak was fixed recently 19:33 <@roasbeef> also there's a big GC optimization PR taht's about to go in 19:36 < blademccool> hrm not sure, i merged latest master with my changes earlier today. i'll update again and see 19:37 < blademccool> i'm not sure how to check what commit i pulled in, but 72a5bc8648e14648d78978f8a5956c196318c313 is the newest not-mine one in my git log 19:37 < blademccool> oh i didnt do any glide updating .. not sure whats involved there 19:37 < blademccool> delete vendor then glide install? 19:37 -!- meteo [~meteo@52.201.229.182] has joined #lnd 19:38 -!- meteo [~meteo@52.201.229.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38 <@roasbeef> usually just glide install is enough 19:39 < blademccool> gotcha 19:52 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@2604:2000:e080:d400:154f:cc75:ac4c:781e] has joined #lnd 19:57 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58 -!- Styils [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 19:58 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lnd 19:59 < danrobinson> hey roasbeef 19:59 <@roasbeef> wazzaaahhh 20:03 < danrobinson> jimpo got me hooked on lnd 20:05 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05 < jimpo> /_ 20:05 < jimpo> / 20:06 <@roasbeef> ayyeee 20:06 <@roasbeef> lnd is doing. 20:07 <@roasbeef> htlcswitch persistenev 20:07 <@roasbeef> wallet seed + key derivation 20:07 <@roasbeef> the final frontier 20:07 <@roasbeef> also gotta look into that dust related bug 20:07 <@roasbeef> persistence 20:08 <@roasbeef> oh, also auto onion servivce 20:08 <@roasbeef> the trifecta 20:08 <@roasbeef> ideally all routing nodes are an onion service 20:08 <@roasbeef> v3 20:10 -!- test [7c41e252@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.65.226.82] has joined #lnd 20:10 -!- test [7c41e252@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.65.226.82] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13 < jimpo> onion service? 20:13 < jimpo> oh, the Tor onion service thing 20:14 < jimpo> is meshcollider still on that? 20:18 <@roasbeef> that was merged in 20:18 <@roasbeef> i have a PR to add neutrino support and docs: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/737 20:18 <@roasbeef> crypt-iq is working on auto onion service 20:18 <@roasbeef> so if you set the flag, and it detects tor runnin glocally, it'll create an hsdir over the control port and advertise your onion addr 20:18 <@roasbeef> for v2 only 20:19 <@roasbeef> unfortuantley the last release of tor didn't add support for v3 over the control port 20:19 <@roasbeef> v3 is waaaay better 20:19 <@roasbeef> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmsFxBEN3fc 20:19 <@roasbeef> actually uses real crypto (no rsa, no sha1) 20:20 <@roasbeef> distributed randomness generator to stop camping attacks 20:23 <@roasbeef> then 0.4.1 20:23 <@roasbeef> reproducible builds (chainaic like) 20:23 <@roasbeef> https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/648.pdf 20:37 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 17 new commits to master: https://git.io/vAvxa 20:37 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 0d7b8be Olaoluwa Osuntokun: lnwire: add new Sig type to handle conversion to/from btcec.Signature... 20:37 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 4dd108c Olaoluwa Osuntokun: lnwire: replace usage of btcec.Signature with the new lnwire.Sig type 20:37 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master aa2e91f Olaoluwa Osuntokun: lnwire: replace instances of *btcec.PublicKey with [33]byte in ann messages... 20:59 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@2604:2000:e080:d400:154f:cc75:ac4c:781e] has quit [Quit: danrobinson] 21:12 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@190.140.125.142] has quit [] 21:16 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lnd 21:56 -!- rrol[m] [rrolmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kyoecxinvusskcbj] has joined #lnd 22:16 < mlz> roasbeef, do we need to close out all channels for these updates? 22:18 -!- cjd[m] [cdelisle1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-thuxcpkwewyhdejb] has joined #lnd 22:20 -!- georgeangel[m] [georgeange@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-faekecbgylomhrbj] has joined #lnd 22:23 -!- shem[m] [shemmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-veevvcetxgbwtnxt] has joined #lnd 22:23 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fhkvxdlyyvfzkagr] has joined #lnd 22:26 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-swjingryjasdynyy] has joined #lnd 22:26 -!- pierce [x43matrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lxewjvbrknsligtw] has joined #lnd 22:32 -!- Dru0 [2e4c532e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.76.83.46] has joined #lnd 22:37 -!- dervish [6dca0272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.202.2.114] has joined #lnd 22:38 < dervish> Hello! I need help. I want to connect to bitcoin testnet using neutrino.active=1 what should I place to neutrino.connect= 22:40 < mlz> faucet.lightning.community 22:40 < mlz> but i'm not sure if it works 22:40 < mlz> dervish, here's the guide: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md#running-lnd-in-light-client-mode 22:43 < dervish> thanx. i'll try 22:50 -!- daouzo23 [~daraki235@81-223-13-90.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #lnd 23:03 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has joined #lnd 23:09 -!- bryan_w [~is@2600:2108:9:8a90:5a69:d114:68b8:dae2] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:15 -!- Graylan [uid277037@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehxbeuqsppynkzqe] has joined #lnd 23:20 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has joined #lnd 23:30 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #lnd 23:32 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34 -!- meteo [~meteo@52.201.229.182] has joined #lnd 23:45 -!- creslin [~textual@deposing-waterfront.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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