--- Day changed Thu Mar 15 2018
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00:04 < Veggen> go isn't hard to grasp, actually. I don't know it either, but once you have dabbled in a couple of computer languages, one more is just fine.
00:07 < camulos> Can I close a channel that has "pending_htlcs"? I am trying to close this channel: https://testnet.blockchain.info/tx/872850568bdb518dc16204a1b8c6e536a6e8530f0087a31b8bff19086496284b
00:07 < camulos> I can find it back under "lncli listchannels", and no results for "lncli pendingchannels"
00:08 < camulos> lncli closechannel --funding_txid="872850568bdb518dc16204a1b8c6e536a6e8530f0087a31b8bff19086496284b"
00:08 < camulos> [lncli] rpc error: code = Unknown desc = channel with chan_id=4b2896640819ff8b1ba387000f53e8a636e5c6b8a10462c18d51db8b56502887 not found
00:08 < Veggen> camulos: is it active?
00:08 < Veggen> if not, you need to add --force 
00:09 < camulos> i do see 4 pending htlcs for the same amount
00:09 <@mlz> you can use 'lncli closeallchannels'
00:10 < camulos> -- force worked, thanks
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00:20 <@mlz> it seems that channel was closed by the other side 
00:37 < CubicEarths> mlz: Do you ever sleep ? :)
00:38 <@mlz> haha going to sleep now 
00:38 <@mlz> night
00:39 < CubicEarths> night
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01:33 < Veggen> htrm. I have a channelpoint 2fa77baf80380b4c4d0ddee3e7a59ce7ae7af8423066dd718bd33986772bb605:0 - in eternal pending state.
01:34 < Veggen> but I can't find theTX on any block explorer?
01:34 <@roasbeef> Veggen: pending open or close?
01:35 <@roasbeef> or force close
01:35 <@roasbeef> is it that fee one?
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02:08 < Veggen> roasbeef: fee one was wrong. It had a fee.
02:08 < Veggen> pending open.
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02:09 < Veggen> roasbeef: I have 6 incoming pending opens from same node. Checked a few channel ponts/TXes and they are not in block explorer.
02:09 <@roasbeef> could be the other node just never broadcasted them?
02:10 <@roasbeef> if it doesn't confirm for a while, we'll forgot it if nothing was pushed to us 
02:10 < Veggen> could be.
02:11 < Veggen> I guess that's the most likely explanation.
02:12 < Veggen> will they eventually disappear? 
02:12 <@roasbeef> yeh     
02:14 < Veggen> 10 hours ago for one of them.
02:14 < Veggen> I have restarted node, they are still there.
02:15 < Veggen> I guess they aren't really of consequence for anything.
02:18 < Veggen> except they can be sort of DoS? it'll fill up pending channel tables...
02:18 < Veggen> (and has no cost)
02:27 <@roasbeef> we limit the number of pending channels per node 
02:27 <@roasbeef> well pending unconfirmed at least 
02:27 <@roasbeef> we also have a min channel size
02:28 < Veggen> ok...what's the limit?
02:32 < Veggen> I have 6 pending, with no funding TX seen, from the same node :)
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06:23 < stevenroose> I seem to always get this error when connecting to certain nodes: [ERR] CMGR: Can't accept connection: chacha20poly1305: message authentication failed
06:24 < stevenroose> F.e. StarBlocks, or 0217b14d070b7d250c647269eede72a5b9b55597569aa4e91b03b030c445b7bd70@46.22.98.150:9735
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06:28 < stevenroose> (Still not sure if it's related, since I get the message also at random moments..)
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06:52 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/vxLAQ
06:52 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 68f842d Olaoluwa Osuntokun: chains: add genesis hashes for BTC and LTC mainnet
06:52 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 8f4a8fc Olaoluwa Osuntokun: chains: add DNS seeds for mainnet BTC and LTC
06:52 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 3bf6626 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: chains: add net params for TBC and LTC main net
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06:57 < Veggen> woa?
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07:02 < Veggen> Someone mentioned mainnet.
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07:05 <@mlz> haha
07:06 <@mlz> historic moment
07:06 <@mlz> :D     
07:08 < Veggen> the SSD for my future mainnet node actually arrives today.
07:09 < Veggen> Gonna configure server this evening. And start syncing bitcoind :)
07:09 < Veggen> but not sure it'll run on mainnet immediately. Probably use it as testnet node a bit first.
07:10 < Veggen> went for a dedicated server. Easier to run a secure node that way.
07:10 <@mlz> Veggen, you can always run it on mainnet and tell people to connect to it
07:11 <@mlz> i have a LND node on mainnet since January 17, still going strong, that's how good LND is 
07:11 < Veggen> https://medium.com/@stadicus/perfect-low-cost-%EF%B8%8Flightning%EF%B8%8F-node-4c2f42a4ff7b
07:11 <@mlz> it has never crashed
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07:12 < Veggen> I am a sucker for small and silent hardware :)
07:12 < Veggen> got something to do with the WAF, though. I keep getting "Can that one not be turned off?"-questions if it makes noise.
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07:16 <@mlz> lol     
07:16 <@mlz> put it outside lol
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08:04 <@mlz> guys it's time :D
08:04 <@mlz> https://twitter.com/lightning/status/974299189076148224
08:08 < tumi> \m/     
08:08 < grubles> woot
08:10 <@mlz> grubles, i've been reading your tweets lol 
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08:16 < Veggen> can you run neutrino on mainnet until my full node is synced, and then switch to bitcoind?
08:17 < Veggen> you can switch seamlessly, without losing anything, right?
08:19 < Veggen> roasbeef, does this mean that breaking changes without migration path is a thing of the past?
08:22 < Veggen> and, another Q: Running on mainnet, I'd obviously only like to open channels to nodes being updated, so that they don't just go close the channel...
08:23 < Veggen> disable autoconnect for now, and just build a manual net to known "good" nodes?
08:26 < Veggen> autopilot, I mean.
08:26 < douglas_> cccccchucrkbnrnfbduklhbjflgrulljkcuvikluvbdb
08:27 <@roasbeef> dat otp? ;) 
08:27 <@roasbeef> Veggen: yeh i'd wait a bit and let all the other nodes on mainnet downgrade 
08:27 <@roasbeef> also need to check if the mainnet DNS seed is lively
08:27 < Veggen> ..upgrade, I hope.
08:28 < Veggen> roasbeef: My mainnet node disk is at the post office in this moment.
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08:28 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] stevenroose opened pull request #844: rpc: Streamline RPC messages (master...cleanrpc) https://git.io/vxtY8
08:29 < Veggen> gonna pick it up on my way home, then configure it and sync full node. Will take some time before I am up to speed there anyways :)
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08:32 < Veggen> didn't feel like running with real coins in the cloud or in a shared box with other services, so I build a dedicated node.
08:33 < stevenroose> Veggen: core or btcd?
08:33 < Veggen> core, I think.
08:34 < stevenroose> (if btcd, I want to advise you to enable the indices before running it :D activating the indices after being synced is a big pain in the neck)
08:34 < stevenroose> [INF] INDX: Indexed 1 block in the last 10.97s (770 transactions, height 341511, 2015-02-01 18:02:00 +0100 CET)
08:35 < stevenroose> (Mainly CPU constraint though, which a custom box prob won't have; this one's in a VPS)
08:35 < Veggen> steven: Not gonna be that powerful box.
08:35 < Veggen> Went with a https://medium.com/@stadicus/perfect-low-cost-️lightning️-node-4c2f42a4ff7b
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08:48 < timothy> hi, I think you have some problem with node.lightning.directory :)
08:51 < lndbot> <justin> 2018-03-15 15:50:45.894 [ERR] DISC: Unable to query bootstrapper BOLT-0010 DNS Seed: [[nodes.lightning.directory soa.nodes.lightning.directory]]: dns: domain must be fully qualified  ?
08:51 < timothy> infact lnd doesn't start on tor anymore :)
08:52 < Veggen> homewards. Time to go start that mainnet node build :)
08:53 <@roasbeef> justin__: yeh need to poke the DNS seed, maybe after a nap :p
08:53 <@roasbeef> i kinda want to let people downgrade all their old nodes first 
08:53 <@roasbeef> since most people were running pretty old versions 
08:53 <@roasbeef> timothy: doesn't start?
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08:54 < timothy> tor.socks=9050
08:54 < timothy> tor.dns=node.lightning.directory
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08:54 < timothy> I have the usual setup
08:54 <@mlz> roasbeef, you and the whole Lightning Labs team haven't had any sleep? 
08:54 < timothy> unable to start wallet: Post http://localhost:8332: dial tcp: lookup localhost on 127.0.0.1:53: no such host
08:54 < timothy> unable to create chain control: Post http://localhost:8332: dial tcp: lookup localhost on 127.0.0.1:53: no such host
08:54 < timothy> Post http://localhost:8332: dial tcp: lookup localhost on 127.0.0.1:53: no such host
08:54 < lndbot> <conner> mlz, like 20 mins lol
08:54 < timothy> maybe due to broken dns
08:55 <@mlz> conner, aww.. you guys should sleep, we'll be ok here
08:55 < lndbot> <conner> no one wants to join on litecoin? :)
08:55 <@mlz> not rn lol
08:55 <@roasbeef> timothy: which commit are you running? 
08:56 < timothy> 0.4.0-alpha build from github
08:56 < timothy> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases/tag/v0.4-beta
08:56 <@roasbeef> hmmm, not sure why your node is trying to query localhost for the DNS server 
08:56 <@roasbeef> well do you have the socks proxy active timothy ?
08:57 <@roasbeef> have you seen https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/configuring_tor.md?
08:57 < timothy> roasbeef: if I start my old modded version it works
08:58 <@roasbeef> well wouldn't work with the hold one, as DNS has changed 
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08:58 <@roasbeef> unless you hard some hard coded stuff in your moded version 
09:00 < timothy> roasbeef: ok, I fixed it by putting 127.0.0.1       localhost in my /etc/hosts
09:00 <@roasbeef> nice, will make an issue to note
09:01 < timothy> since on archlinux /etc/hosts doesn't cointain localhost by default anymore https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/hosts?h=packages/filesystem 
09:02 <@roasbeef> ahh i see
09:02 < timothy> maybe using 127.0.0.1 instead of localhost is better
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09:08 < naribia> is it possible to close channels, and then turn off the node and retrieve the funds later?
09:09 < lightningbot1> <conner> naribia, if you have to force close, probably not
09:09 < lightningbot1> <conner> better to leave it online
09:10 < naribia> "closeallchannels" is not a force close right?
09:10 < lightningbot1> <conner> check the “-h”
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09:11 < naribia> I see, inactive channels will be force closed
09:11 < ChunkyPuffs> Guys, why was the release described as "Big day for bitcoin, Lightning goes live on mainnet!" on twitter?
09:11 < lndbot> <dlog> Hi guys, just updated and when starting lnd the version I see is "Version 0.4.0-alpha"
09:11 < lightningbot1> <conner> it will prompt you by default, passing `--force` will skip confirmation
09:12 < naribia> right, gotcha
09:12 < ChunkyPuffs> "Live on mainnet" is dead wrong, and it's going to drive fake, unnecessary hype.
09:12 < ChunkyPuffs> Whyyyy
09:12 <@roasbeef> huh?
09:12 <@roasbeef> we've done the least hyping of the tech out of anyone as we're on the ground floor actually building it
09:12 < ChunkyPuffs> The lightning twitter is acting as if lightning is released. As if it wasn't live on main-net before, and that work is done.
09:13 <@roasbeef> the existing delpoyment was mostly people hacking other implementations to go on mainnet 
09:13 < ChunkyPuffs> like, there is no such thing as "going live on main-net"
09:13 <@roasbeef> lnd now has a mainnet arg
09:13 < ChunkyPuffs> And that's how litecoin announcet it.
09:13 < ChunkyPuffs> But the lightning twitter simply says "Big day for bitcoin, Lightning goes live on mainnet! "
09:13 <@roasbeef> i have no control over what litecoin does...
09:14 < ChunkyPuffs> Do you judge the beta to be free of money loss?
09:14 <@roasbeef> minimized, there are always unknown bugs 
09:14 < ChunkyPuffs> Is that situation now impossible? Because if not, don't you think "Lightning goes live on mainnet" is a bit misleading for normies?
09:14 <@roasbeef> we still recommend smaller amounts from the on set
09:15 < ChunkyPuffs> Would you trust lightning more than ERC20? Lmao.
09:15 <@roasbeef> how can anyone say what's impossible w.r.t to a program?
09:15 <@roasbeef> lolol
09:15 <@roasbeef> idk how that compares
09:15 < ChunkyPuffs> This is going to crush ETH isn't it?
09:15 <@roasbeef> did you read the blog post or the release notes ChunkyPuffs ?
09:15 < ChunkyPuffs> Not yet.
09:15 < lndbot> <alexbosworth> “Big day for bitcoin, Lightning goes live on mainnet! :zap:” is from the @lightning account, tweets don’t convey nuance very well you can read the details inside to see the current state
09:15 < lndbot> <alexbosworth> Lightning account - weird Slack replace
09:15 < ChunkyPuffs> I don't care that extraneous details were provided, of course I'll read it, and not assume, but normies won't.
09:15 <@roasbeef> not sure how this is related to eth
09:16 < ChunkyPuffs> Well, smart contracts, or something like them is definitely possible on Lightning.
09:16 <@roasbeef> wouldn't call release nodes or the actual announcement extraneous
09:16 <@roasbeef> sure we have a bunch of contracts that we think are cool and will eventually build out 
09:16 < ChunkyPuffs> The implementation of smart contracts into the base layer is completely and utterly superfluous, and only increases your attack surface, and ability to spam the network, right?
09:17 < ChunkyPuffs> If it can all be accomplished on a second layer, doesn't that just make ETH an exploitable network with no benefit?
09:19 <@roasbeef> ppl seems to like ETH as they can issue tokens (securities) 
09:20 < ChunkyPuffs> ooh, fiat on blockchain
09:20 < ChunkyPuffs> Trust on blockchain, sounds great.
09:21 <@roasbeef> not saying i'm a fan of it lol
09:21 < ChunkyPuffs> I know, I just find it seriously worrying that people buy into it, because everything Jamie Dimon said about Bitcoin is true on ETH.
09:21 -!- foxit_ [0ca6f739@gateway/web/freenode/ip.12.166.247.57] has joined #lnd     
09:21 <@roasbeef>  /shrug
09:21 <@roasbeef> markets are cray
09:21 < ChunkyPuffs> If anything, I guess it means there's plenty of projects to back that can make me money still, if ETH is still #2.
09:23 -!- Bezpol [1f01ae86@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.1.174.134] has joined #lnd     
09:23 < naribia> sometimes I don't fully understand the hate on eth from btc folks, you can do an awfully lot more with the EVM
09:23 < Bezpol> Hello girls and boys.
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09:24 < zib> How long is the inactive timeout?
09:24 < marijnfs> wauw a beta release, congrats guys
09:24 < zib> If one side is not responding and i want to close
09:24 < moriarty> marijnfs++
09:24 <@roasbeef> zib: depends on the channel 
09:24 < zib> roasbeef: hmm ok
09:25 <@roasbeef> naribia: ain't no hate here 
09:25 <@roasbeef> zib: you can see in listchannels
09:25 <@roasbeef> it'll show the csv delay 
09:25 < zib> roasbeef: ah csv delay. Ok thx
09:27 < ChunkyPuffs> naribia, You can also do a lot more on the EVM on Ethereum Classic, I at the very least don't think ETH deserves #2.
09:27 < ChunkyPuffs> I don't hate it tho
09:28 < ChunkyPuffs> If you're talking about features, and correct implementation, ETC does it better. What now? The name service stuff on eth is just silly.
09:28 < Bezpol> Can I use beta release in livenet without changes in code ? Congratulation by the wy.
09:28 <@roasbeef> ChunkyPuffs: kinda off topic... ;)
09:29 < lndbot> <justin> how's compat with c-lightning lol?
09:29 <@roasbeef> unchanged? 
09:29 <@roasbeef> or better even with that uint64 fixed
09:29 < lndbot> <justin> ah nvm all good
09:30 < lndbot> <justin> opened a channel and got no response, and nothing in pendingchannels, 0 balance
09:30 < lndbot> <justin> just took a while
09:31 <@roasbeef> if your node was still syncing with other nodes can be de-prioritzed at times 
09:31 <@roasbeef> bbl     
09:32 < Bezpol> roasbeef: Can I use beta in livenet without changes in code only by arguments in lnd.config ?
09:36 < timothy> Bezpol: bitcoin.mainnet=1
09:37 < skace> roasbeef: if you make a typo in lnd.conf (like an extra lien at the end of the file with a random word) instead of erroring with that line being invalid, i simplky get "loadConfig: either bitcoin.active or litecoin.active must be set to 1 (true)"
09:37 < Bezpol> Is it enough ? Nothing more ?
09:38 < timothy> Bezpol: nothing more
09:38 < Bezpol> Ok. I will check. Thank you.
09:39 <@roasbeef> skace: yeh it's an issue with the config parser, there's an issue on the gh tracking this 
09:39 < skace> np     
09:41 <@mlz> Bezpol, make sure you have bitcoind fully synced with mainnet blockchain
09:41 < Bezpol> I have.
09:42 < Bezpol> It will be nice moment for my and my friends.
09:44 <@roasbeef> bbl     
09:45 < skace> roasbeef: pm
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09:56 < naribia> ChunkyPuffs: how is ethclassic's EVM better ?
09:56 < naribia> sorry not lnd related 
09:56 < ChunkyPuffs> It works, for one.
09:57 < ChunkyPuffs> I mean, by virtue of its valuation, it's cheaper.
09:58 < stevenroose> Veggen: has an 8-core CPU though. My VPS has 2 tiny cores :p but 4 GiB of RAM
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10:01 <@mlz> "Note that this release is intended for developers of future Lightning applications (Lapps) along with technical users and prospective routing node operators. In this early phase of Lightning, we’re focused on providing the software infrastructure (such as lnd!) necessary to bootstrap the network and serve as a platform for future applications, services, and businesses. As this is the first mainnet release of lnd, we recommend that users experiment wit
10:01 <@mlz> h only small amounts (#craefulgang #craefulgang #craefulgang)!"
10:01 <@mlz> :thumbsup:
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10:08 < Veggen> nuts. I'm an amateur.
10:08 < Veggen> forgot cable for harddisk.
10:09 < lndbot> <justin> someone pay this testnet invoice pls
10:09 < lndbot> <justin> lntb2u1pd242qlpp5kf28qvnqch4em2qsvk0n79s8mlx4jsqaj3h5jxtl335e59ctmdvsdqqcqzys4ca6flq4642s5qy05gpk4n265qcjvpsj6wvddd8pednkvevtd97nt7grsla9mj66qsk634q2l6h38se9zdf3fn5uz42ntr7txrqw9ssqx5kwtw
10:10 <@aakselrod> justin: i'm trying, it's hanging
10:11 <@aakselrod> looks like it's resyncing the graph though, i just restarted my node
10:12 < Veggen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3mb4Rd5VVC/
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10:16 < ChunkyPuffs> roasbeef, do you think Litecoin will pioneer LND first? Or do you think progress is going to be equal and bilateral?
10:16 < ChunkyPuffs> Unlike segwit
10:17 < Veggen> justin, it won't pay.
10:18 < lndbot> <justin> hmm this node also has like 3 pending channels with htlc which never confirmed lol
10:18 < lndbot> <justin> started from scratch on master too
10:20 < Veggen> I didn't, I upgraded. but I were very recently started from scratch...
10:23 <@aakselrod> justin: looks like it came back with insufficient fee, trying again
10:24 <@aakselrod> nope, still failing
10:25 <@aakselrod> but failed way faster this time, after my graph synchronized :P
10:25  * aakselrod has 4 active channels
10:28 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] wilmerpaulino opened pull request #846: multi: support multi-hop payments over private channels (master...private-channel-routing) https://git.io/vxtiD
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10:33 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] stevenroose opened pull request #847: rpc: Fix typo in OpenChannelRequest (master...typo-funding) https://git.io/vxtPG
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11:00 < lndbot> <justin> getting mainnet rich here
11:00 < lndbot> <justin> "day_fee_sum": "1",     "week_fee_sum": "1",     "month_fee_sum": "1"
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11:04 < lndbot> <jimmymow> time to retire
11:09 < lndbot> <justin> income went up 100%
11:10 < lndbot> <justin> amazing
11:10 < lndbot> <justin> "day_fee_sum": "2", those returns
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11:10 < moriarty> justin, 1 satoshi? nice
11:11 <@mlz> lol     
11:11 < lndbot> <justin> 2
11:11 < moriarty> oh sorry, 2 satoshi
11:11 <@aakselrod> the method a developer used to DOUBLE HIS INCOME IN JUST MINUTES will shock you!
11:11 <@mlz> justin, get your lambo first :D
11:11 < lndbot> <justin> the goals always been more bitcoin, achievement get, no lambos
11:12 <@mlz> oh that's right, you can always rent a lambo ... lol
11:13 -!- webworker01 [47b94a33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.185.74.51] has joined #lnd     
11:13 < webworker01> Congrats lightning labs!
11:14 < moriarty> ^     
11:15 < webworker01> PS my test node i was asking about yesterday was mainnet :D
11:16 < webworker01> worked pretty good so far.. i hope upgrading with these latest few commits going isn't a big deal
11:22 < lndbot> <justin> fwdinghisgtory pretty cool
11:23 < moriarty> justin, is this yours? :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiV6ITr6jlc
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11:38 < webworker01> Trying to compile from source the latest version, I deleted channel.db 
11:38 < webworker01> but lnd won't start for me
11:39 -!- timothy [~tredaelli@redhat/timothy] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]     
11:40 < webworker01> what files should i keep if i already had a wallet? wallet.db and my .conf file should do it right?
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11:44 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] MDrollette opened pull request #849: discovery: format log message with Errorf (master...missing-log-format) https://git.io/vxtQk
11:48 < webworker01> ah nevermind, i figured it out
11:48 <@aakselrod> webworker01: no, you need to start fresh. wallet and channeldb both have breaking changes in the past few days.
11:49 < webworker01> i don't need to hack up the chainparams file anymore :)
11:49 <@aakselrod> aye, mainnet support is now included :P
11:49 < webworker01> luckily my wallet.db was created in the past 2 days
11:50 < webworker01> waiting til today would have saved me a couple days of smashing my head on my desk lol
11:50 < webworker01> great work guys bbl
11:51 <@aakselrod> \m/     
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12:01 < meshcollider> Woo congrats on the release \o/
12:02 <@aakselrod> \m/     
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12:03 < qxt> so whats this I hear about lnd beta? For reals?
12:03 <@aakselrod> yes, 100% genuine verified truth
12:03 < qxt> gratz roasbeef 
12:03 < qxt> shits getting real now
12:05 < qxt> Might wanna change the header of this # from 0.3-alpha is the latest release to "beta!"
12:09 -!- aakselrod changed the topic of #lnd to: lnd - the Lightning Network Daemon (https://lightning.engineering/) - v0.4-beta is the latest release - https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd - Go 1.10 is the recommended version - https://faucet.lightning.community/ - http://dev.lightning.community/
12:09 <@aakselrod> good point :> thanks
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12:22 -github-onion:#lnd- [lightning-onion] jimpo opened pull request #22: Replay log (master...replay-log) https://git.io/vxtFo
12:25 < qxt> Thinking about using core instead of btcd. zmq in now enabled by default I hear in 0.16. That mean I can just use it "out of the box" ?
12:28 <@aakselrod> if you're using a precompiled version, should be able to (but you do have to enable it in bitcoin.conf)
12:28 <@aakselrod> if not, make sure you build it with zmq enabled
12:32 < qxt> aakselrod, any shortcut that gives me lazy points I will use. Precompiled sounds good.
12:36 < meshcollider> core is much faster for IBD and stuff
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12:59 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] bretton opened pull request #850: fixing version to beta  (master...master) https://git.io/vxtxp
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13:21 < Bezpol_> must I delete old data after update to beta version
13:25 <@aakselrod> Bezpol_: yes, there's no upgrade path
13:26 < Bezpol_> OK. Thank you.
13:35 < naribia> I have some question regarding the configuration
13:35 < naribia> can all parameters given to lnd, be put in the lnd.conf file?
13:36 < lndbot> <justin> gimme all that off chain monies!
13:39 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Perdouille opened pull request #851: Fixing a small typo on INSTALL.md (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vxqfK
13:39 <@aakselrod> naribia: yes, pretty much
13:44 < lndbot> <justin> Fee limits for paying invoices much needed. Can't do automatic refunds to pay external invoices automatically without it as it's too dangerous :P #craefulgang
13:44 < lndbot> <justin> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/714 +1
13:53 < naribia> aakselrod: so, for a parameter that does not have an assignment, but is a flag, such as --autopilot.active, does it appear as "autopilot.active" in a single line of the lnd.conf ?
13:54 <@aakselrod> naribia: `autopilot.active=1`
13:54 < naribia> ah     
13:54 < naribia> ok     
13:55 < naribia> how can you comment out a config file?
13:55 < naribia> i mean, lines in the config file
13:56 <@aakselrod> use ; at the start of the file
13:56 < naribia> ah ok
13:56 <@aakselrod> like asm source and ini files :P
13:56 < naribia> is there a name for this syntax ?
13:56 <@aakselrod> yeah lnd.conf is actually in ini format :P
13:57 < naribia> oh ok, yeah I know it's used a lot, so I should be familiar with it lol
13:57 < naribia> aakselrod: thanks
13:57 <@aakselrod> np     
13:58 <@aakselrod> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/config.go#L311 <-- `IniParse` :)
13:59 < naribia> ah ok
14:07 < naribia> the default amount for autopilot allocation is 0.6% (double checking I'm reading it right) ?
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14:08 <@aakselrod> no, 60%
14:08 <@aakselrod> the range is 0-1
14:08 < naribia> I figured, the wording might need to get changed then
14:08 <@aakselrod> yeah, would help to clarify that
14:08 < naribia> it says "The percentage of total funds..."
14:09 < webworker01> https://github.com/MeshCollider/lnd/blob/master/sample-lnd.conf#L259
14:09 < webworker01> oops
14:09 < naribia> ah ok, it is clear in the sample conf
14:09 < naribia> not in -h though
14:09 < webworker01> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/sample-lnd.conf#L261
14:09 < webworker01> sorry stupid autocomplete
14:10 < webworker01> is there a way to "addnode" in the config file?
14:11 < webworker01> The auto-discovery doesn't seem to be working for me 
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14:14 <@aakselrod> webworker01: not really, but if you do it once over RPC and let it sync the graph, you shouldn't have that problem any more
14:14 <@aakselrod> (and DNS seed will be launched... soon-ish?)
14:14 < webworker01> hmm.. seems like when i restart lnd i have to re-connect nodes :(
14:15 < webworker01> i must've mucked something up 
14:15 <@aakselrod> do you have an open channel?
14:15 <@aakselrod> it should attempt to reconnect to any nodes with which you have an open channel
14:15 < webworker01> yes i have 3 channels so far
14:15 <@aakselrod> also
14:16 <@aakselrod> `lncli connect -perm` will make your node autoreconnect to peers to which you connect manually
14:16 <@aakselrod> but     
14:16 < webworker01> ooh     
14:16 <@aakselrod> it should definitely be trying to connect to peers with which you have open channels
14:16 < Veggen> well. Full node is syncing.
14:16 <@aakselrod> if they were initially outbound connections, anyway
14:16 < webworker01> yes it reconnects the one with open channels
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14:17 <@aakselrod> ok great
14:17 < webworker01> i just had manually connected to like 30 peers 
14:17 <@aakselrod> lol     
14:17 < webworker01> and restarted lnd and it was back to 3
14:17 < webworker01> :D     
14:17 < Veggen> was gonna do this anyhow today...but beta got here a bit before expected :)
14:17 <@aakselrod> yeah, you can connect -perm for peers you want to keep connections to
14:17 < webworker01> that's gold thank u
14:18 <@aakselrod> Veggen: that's way better than the "omg when beta?" everyone else has been doing :P
14:18 < Veggen> aakselrod: have been trying to be patient :)
14:19 <@aakselrod> :>     
14:19 < Veggen> realize that I can test just as well on testnet until beta.
14:19 < Veggen> not that sucker for stickers :)
14:20 <@mlz> well Veggen i offered to help you get on mainnet but you didn't like :P
14:20 <@aakselrod> i want some stickers, still catching up my rpi-based full node :P had it off for about a month
14:21 < webworker01> i just wanted my name to show up on the explorer
14:21 < webworker01> that's worth more than stickers :D
14:23 < Veggen> mlz: oh, my hardware was not ready  before now anyhow.
14:23 <@mlz> webworker01, what's your name on the explorer?
14:23 < Veggen> aakselrod: I have https://medium.com/@stadicus/perfect-low-cost-%EF%B8%8Flightning%EF%B8%8F-node-4c2f42a4ff7b
14:24 < webworker01> mlz : same name :D
14:24 < webworker01> or maybe i switched to webworker.sh
14:24 < naribia> is dep a new thing?
14:25 <@aakselrod> Veggen: i'm a little apprehensive about odroids because they're more closed than the rpi, but yeah
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14:25 <@aakselrod> i have some rpis sitting around, and i'm targeting them with what i'm building anyway, so it's not too bad
14:26 < webworker01> naribia i think it's the new way, i had some old instructions that used the other thing but latest instructions say dep
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14:26 < naribia> lol whatever that is
14:26 < naribia> projects use so many tools nowadays
14:27 <@aakselrod> naribia: dep is the official golang tool, glide is a third-party vendoring tool... dep matured later than glide
14:28 <@aakselrod> Veggen: i also like the built-in wifi of rpi3, because i would like to start building incentivized meshnet stuf
14:28 <@aakselrod> f     
14:28 <@aakselrod> on top of lightning
14:28 < CubicEarths> " Instead, we'll enter an exponential backoff phase in order to mitigate unnecessary flapping. "  - What a great line :)
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14:28 < Veggen> aakselrod:oh, this will just be a permanently connected, personal lightning node for now.
14:29 < Veggen> might build things on top of it in time.
14:30 < webworker01> aakselrod : I don't think the -perm flag is working
14:31 < naribia> are there any planned breaking changes coming up soon ?
14:31 <@aakselrod> naribia: i don't believe so
14:32 < naribia> vroom vroom
14:32 < Veggen> is it expected that from now on, we'll handle migrations seamlessly, no?
14:32 <@aakselrod> webworker01: what are you seeing?
14:32 <@aakselrod> Veggen: from now on, we will do our absolute best to provide upgrade paths
14:33 < webworker01> aakselrod: it takes the flag and connects as usual, but restart lnd and no reconnect except for open channels
14:34 < webworker01> i'm just gonna script it for now so i can move on
14:34 <@aakselrod> ok     
14:34 <@aakselrod> you really don't need connections to nodes with which you don't have channels... only increases your update traffic :P
14:34 < naribia> uuh     
14:34 <@aakselrod> but it *should* work
14:34 < naribia> what is ZMQ socket ?
14:34 < naribia> apparently it's needed for bitcoind rpc connection
14:34 <@aakselrod> naribia: ZMQ socket is how lnd subscribes to notifications from bitcoind
14:35 <@aakselrod> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md
14:35 <@aakselrod> this describes the required configuration
14:36 < naribia> oooh
14:36 < naribia> thanks a lot
14:39 < naribia> which is better, using lnd with bitcoind or btcd ? (opinion)
14:40 < webworker01> aakselrod: i was hoping that being connected to more peers would make the autopilot work more better :D
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14:43 < naribia> are there some mainnet explorers?
14:44 < webworker01> https://rompert.com/recksplorer/
14:44 < webworker01> does btcd have the same api as bitcoind ? 
14:45 < webworker01> i'm using bitcoind for something else as well so i just stuck with that
14:47 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] jasondavies opened pull request #852: s/bitciond/bitcoind (master...fix-typo) https://git.io/vxqqM
14:48 < naribia> webworker01: btcd has some extra stuff utizling websockets
14:50 < webworker01> i see
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15:00 <@mlz> the reason we use btcd because it supports Neutrino
15:00 <@mlz> but once roasbeef's BIP gets merged into core, then probably we won't use btcd anymore 
15:00 <@mlz> right, alex? 
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15:15 <@aakselrod> mlz: we're not planning on moving away from btcd, just getting all the stuff merged into mainline and going back to btcsuite rather than the roasbeef fork :P
15:15 <@aakselrod> and no, btcd has a quite different api from bitcoind
15:15 <@mlz> aakselrod, ah i see.. thanks for the clarification :)
15:16 <@mlz> aakselrod, it'll be great if eventually btcd gets optimized to be faster at syncing 
15:19 <@aakselrod> yeah, i'm sure it will eventually :)
15:20 < stevenroose> What's a good segwit-enabled testnet block explorer?
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17:02 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] MeshCollider closed pull request #852: s/bitciond/bitcoind (master...fix-typo) https://git.io/vxqqM
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17:21 < btchacker> lol shit software. easily hacked
17:22 < btchacker> l2program slut
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17:25 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] jcsmesquita opened pull request #853: Fix go bin path in INSTALL.md (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vxq4a
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18:23 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] cfromknecht opened pull request #855: discovery/gossiper: use Errorf instead of Error in log stmnt (master...discovery-log-format-fix) https://git.io/vxqEq
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18:33 <@roasbeef> justin: def agreed on fee limits, we'll likey start to cllect some stuff like that as well as bug fixes for a patch release soon 
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19:19 < jimpo> roasbeef: What is an example use can for the BIP 158 extended filter type?
19:19 <@roasbeef> "i need this pubkey when it's revealed to do something on a related contract" 
19:20 <@roasbeef> "when this merkle root is published i need it to act on another contract" 
19:20 <@roasbeef> the xtended had txid in the psat
19:20 <@roasbeef> but we put it into the regular instead 
19:20 <@roasbeef> as fwiw bip37 also added the sig script to the filter in the past 
19:20 <@roasbeef> just seems generally useful for more involved multi-step contracts 
19:21 <@roasbeef> or for like analysis or something "lemmie know all txns that involved this particular witness script" 
19:22 <@roasbeef> the regular filter is like core wallet scannig stuff (with a bit more added things) 
19:22 <@roasbeef> extended is meant to be for more complex contracts
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19:25 < jimpo> Hmm, in the case that you want to scan for txs that use a particular witness script, you would know the witness script hash presumably
19:25 < jimpo> Except in a world with MAST
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19:34 <@roasbeef> jimpo: depends
19:34 <@roasbeef> imo we should't think we can plan for all possible use cases and just implement those instead 
19:34 <@roasbeef> that assumes devs are like omniscient and have thought of all the cool ideas 
19:34 <@roasbeef> even with stuff like scriptless scripts, it's cool and all, but how bout dem op codes
19:35 <@roasbeef> also it doesn't help as far as anonymity unless *all* constracts are using them 
19:35 <@roasbeef> but ofc there're limitations and in some cases people may not care about blending in 
19:36 <@roasbeef> i'm more on the side of "implement with generic functionality in mind" 
19:36 <@roasbeef> rather than "think of everything we think people might want to do, and implement and optimize for that specific state"
19:37 <@roasbeef> imo the first one is more in the spirit of "permissionless innovation"
19:37 <@roasbeef> and less paternilistic 
19:37 <@roasbeef> devs gonna devs, give them the tools to make decisions that are right for them 
19:37 < jimpo> You might want to join the discussion with sipa right now in bitcoin-core-dev
19:38 < jimpo> He's arguing against doing extended filter until someone actually needs it
19:38 <@roasbeef> how does he know anyone doens't need it? :)
19:38 <@roasbeef> we can't try to think of all possible use cases in advance 
19:38 <@roasbeef> there's an element of hubris there imo
19:38 < jimpo> Yeah, I of course hear that and tried to state that position
19:39 <@roasbeef> yeh it's a philosphical thing 
19:39 < jimpo> the counterargument is that it's easier to add filter types than remove them from the protocol
19:39 <@roasbeef> which is also why we want with the p2p approach before trying to propose a soft fork or anything like that 
19:39 <@roasbeef> well if we go with matts approach for feature bits, then people could just stop advertising them 
19:39 <@roasbeef> as nothing is consensus atm
19:40 <@roasbeef> i mean, i can write up some paper using the extended filters in a novel way, that would them somehow be rationale?
19:40 <@roasbeef> where anyone may have that *dormant* idea 
19:40 <@roasbeef> or may not even want to come forward with it until stuff are deployed 
19:41 < jimpo> So the thing is that right now, BIP 158 says there's one service bit advertising support for both types
19:41 <@roasbeef> mhmm
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19:41 < jimpo> we could split into two service bits
19:41 < jimpo> it's really nice how lightning has a near-unlimited supply of them...
19:41 <@roasbeef> hehehe yeh
19:41 < naribia> what are you guys talking about?
19:41 <@roasbeef> imo the version stuff in btc is due for an upgrade also 
19:42 <@roasbeef> the version message at least, and other surrounding items
19:42 <@roasbeef> there's a ton of cool things that can be done sa far as innovation on the p2p layer, some of which you've been looking into jimpo 
19:42 <@roasbeef> naribia: the neutrino BIPs
19:42 <@roasbeef> and general philosophy around upgrades to bitcion 
19:42 < jimpo> Upgrading Bitcoin... what is this heresy
19:42 <@roasbeef> lololol
19:42 < naribia> lol     
19:43 < naribia> u think a hardfork upgrade to bitcoin is even possible anymore?
19:43 < jimpo> we're not even talking about consensus upgrades, just P2P
19:43 < naribia> ah     
19:44 < jimpo> would actually be kind of interesting to completely redesign the whole P2P layer and just have a few bridge nodes that relay blocks between the new network and the old
19:44 <@roasbeef> yeh     
19:44 <@roasbeef> nice that's it's been stable for a while, but we've all learned a buncha nd bitcoin is older 
19:44 <@roasbeef> headers growing etc
19:45 <@roasbeef> some things liek sendheaders and feefitler have started to crop up, but they're pretty incremental steps 
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19:54 <@roasbeef> meshcollider: looks like y'all got flying cars now https://cora.aero/
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19:55 < meshcollider> roasbeef: woah :o
19:59 < meshcollider> Yeah as nice as it would be I think incremental steps are all we're going to accomplish 
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20:12 < aproc> trying to run lnd on linux, doesn't appear like it's recognizing my lnd.conf in /.lnd/
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20:15 <@mlz> aproc, make sure you have Go installed correctly (and get v1.10) 
20:16 < aproc> hmm     
20:16 < aproc> should the version read v0.3.0-alpha?
20:17 < aproc> i extracted from the .4 beta tarball
20:17 < naribia> if txindex is not caught up yet, how will lnd behave on startup?
20:17 <@mlz> aproc, did you install Go?
20:18 < aproc> yeah i installed it when i installed lnd alpha a while back
20:18 < aproc> now it looks like it's recognizing the conf
20:18 < aproc> but it doesn't recognize the bitcoin.node arg
20:19 <@mlz> you probably need to delete the old go, old lnd, anything older than two weeks, they're old
20:19 < aproc> i deleted old /.lnd/
20:19 < aproc> havent deleted go
20:20 < Styil> #craefulgang
20:20 < Styil> good work on lnd 0.4 btw
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20:43 <@roasbeef> #craefulgang #craefulgang #craefulgang #craefulgang
20:43 <@roasbeef> naribia: it will refuse to start 
20:44 < naribia> lol I've been hesitant to ask what is this #craefulgang hashtag, is it a joke to not fuck things up
20:45 <@roasbeef> naribia: watch the latest John Oliver 
20:45 <@roasbeef> they did a segment on cryptocurrencies 
20:45 <@roasbeef> it's hilarious 
20:45 < naribia> lol     
20:45 < naribia> ok i shall
20:45 <@roasbeef> touched on bitconnect
20:45 <@roasbeef> heyy heyy heyyyyyyy
20:46 < naribia> lol     
20:51 < lndbot> <conner> Rewatching rn lol
20:52 < naribia> im watching it lol
20:59 < naribia> haha for the lambos!!!
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21:24 < naribia> does ln have different ports for testnet / mainnet ?
21:25 < Styil> hmm     
21:25 < Styil> I can prune my node for lightning, right?
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21:34 <@roasbeef> Styil: not yet
21:34 <@roasbeef> naribia: no
21:34 <@roasbeef> Styil: there's a PR to add support tho 
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22:20 < Veggen> mmm, 57 GB blockchain synced since yesterday night...
22:30 < CubicEarths> supporting btcd is a very cool way to build support for a multi-client bitcoin ecosystem :)
22:30 < Veggen> I chose bitcoind.
22:30 < Veggen> it syncs faster, I am told ;P
22:31 < CubicEarths> Veggen: What are you sycing on now?
22:32 < Veggen> bitcoind.
22:37 < CubicEarths> I mean what computer specs?
22:37 < Veggen> https://medium.com/@stadicus/perfect-low-cost-%EF%B8%8Flightning%EF%B8%8F-node-4c2f42a4ff7b
22:40 < CubicEarths> Cool! So looking at a 3-day sync time
22:40 < Veggen> possibly.
22:40 < Veggen> that'll be fine, because I'll be at a party tonight, and going offline for the weekend
22:41  * CubicEarths wishes he was going to a cool party tonight
22:41 < Veggen> unless it was finished so I could do it during some wor hour procrastination today, I'll not be able to do anything before sunday evening anyhow.
22:42 < CubicEarths> Last week I synced bitcoind on a 2015 i5 laptop (8gb ram, 1 tb ssd) and it took about 17 hours
22:45 < Veggen> how large is the blockchain now?
22:45 < Veggen> in GB.
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22:52 < skace> # du -sh bitcoin/
22:52 < skace> 190G
22:52 < CubicEarths> my blocks folder is saying 184 GB, according to ubuntu's calculation
22:52 < skace> 187G    blocks
22:53 < Veggen> mmm, and this one has been going roughly 8 hours and is at 61 GB.
22:54 < Veggen> not so bad, then.
23:02 < IllusiveMan> Is there a chart of how many of the btc nodes are actually just paid cloud services?
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23:33 < CryptoGuru> hi     
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