--- Day changed Sat May 05 2018 00:11 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 00:45 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lnd 00:53 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@213.226.63.187] has joined #lnd 01:03 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 01:05 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@213.226.63.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:09 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 01:13 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 01:15 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 01:18 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85.118.82.250] has joined #lnd 01:30 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85.118.82.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:43 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-79-235.mtel.net] has joined #lnd 01:47 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has joined #lnd 01:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #lnd 01:58 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-79-235.mtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 02:35 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] littleskunk opened pull request #1185: typo fix (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vpwoL 02:36 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: colatkinson] 02:52 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@Shtirlic-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 02:59 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:07 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 03:12 -!- colatkinson [~colatkins@cpe-67-240-56-42.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: colatkinson] 03:16 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:20 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:24 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:27 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:31 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 03:38 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 04:09 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 04:13 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 04:14 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 04:14 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lnd 04:16 -!- lypsis [~lypsis@mail.napo.io] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:24 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC471EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd 04:24 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC471EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 04:24 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lnd 04:30 -!- sato_vision [~sato_visi@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:31 -!- zx0w [~zx0w@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31 -!- marsadm [~marsadm@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:32 -!- conundrum_ [~conundrum@172.86.120.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:33 -!- sato_vision [~sato_visi@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 04:34 -!- marsadm [~marsadm@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 04:35 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 04:37 -!- conundrum_ [~conundrum@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 04:41 -!- zx0w [~zx0w@172.86.120.144] has joined #lnd 04:46 < booyah> what is the wors thing a rogue watchtower can do? 04:46 < booyah> e.g. can it close a channel even when there is no need for it (even if my counterparty didn't do anything bad)? 04:57 -!- tristian [~tristian@unaffiliated/tristian] has joined #lnd 04:58 < AndyS2> booyah: AFAIK, no. The retribution tx is only valid and integratable into the blockchain when one tries to defraud you. Before that, it is not a valid tx. 05:00 < AndyS2> Worst thing a watchtower can do is not publish that transaction when the time comes. Maybe because it didn't save that in the first place. There has been some talk about watchtowers that allow you to backup your channel states, but that's a different use case and I'm pretty sure that use case involves encryption that the watchtower can't break. In any case, I'm only talking about 'retribution ... 05:00 < AndyS2> ... tx announcement' functionality here. 05:00 < AndyS2> There might have been some talk about allowing watchtowers to do more and maybe they can do worse stuff, then, I dunno. Take everything I say with a huge grain of salt, anyway :) 05:04 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:04 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09 < AndyS2> I guess in the easiest case, a watchtower is just another person that you give a certain transaction to. If they notice that a certain txid is in the mempool or in a block, they get ready to send out that signed transaction by you. As it is signed, they can't change anything about that tx. With eltoo, some parts might become changeable, but I haven't read much about it yet. 05:24 -!- fitzsim` is now known as fitzsim 05:38 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lnd 05:42 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 05:43 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:59 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lnd 06:04 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-79-235.mtel.net] has joined #lnd 06:20 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lnd 06:21 -!- lndnoob11 [05972611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.38.17] has joined #lnd 06:24 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:35 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lnd 06:43 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-123-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:30 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 07:40 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 07:47 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47 -!- arowser [~arowser@45.32.248.113] has joined #lnd 07:51 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC471EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd 07:51 -!- tiagotrs [~user@p5DC471EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:51 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lnd 08:07 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has joined #lnd 08:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lnd 08:44 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:49 -!- fitzsim [~user@69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50 -!- fitzsim [~user@69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lnd 08:55 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 08:56 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:56 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lnd 09:16 -!- lndnoob11 [05972611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.38.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22 -!- fitzsim [~user@69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.50)] 09:33 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb1 - http://znc.in] 09:33 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined #lnd 09:40 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvqidayadxjybixr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:28 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:46 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-6-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #lnd 10:57 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has joined #lnd 11:03 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-123-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lnd 11:10 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #lnd 11:18 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has joined #lnd 11:21 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-6-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:34 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-6-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #lnd 11:40 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-6-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:47 -!- Toby [5f5ac583@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.90.197.131] has joined #lnd 11:47 -!- Toby is now known as Guest60708 11:49 < Guest60708> Hello I have a question about sending a payment with no paymentrequest. I just want to send 100 satoshi. So I typed lncli pub_key 100 and hit enter. I got the error message: [lncli] payment hash argument missing. So how can i get this payment hash? 11:50 < lndbot> right now, the person who wants to get paid needs to generate an invoice and then send it to you 11:50 < lndbot> the invoice has all the info necessary to pay 11:51 < lndbot> you can do lncli decodepayreq [invoice] to decode it and see what's there 12:02 < Guest60708> ok there is no way to send some payments without generating a invoice? 12:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11 < Veggen> not for now. 12:13 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lnd 12:18 -!- Guest60708 [5f5ac583@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.90.197.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:44 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-79-235.mtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:07 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:12 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-10-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #lnd 13:16 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-78-184.mtel.net] has joined #lnd 14:07 -!- skace [~skace@skace.cc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:10 -!- skace [~skace@skace.cc] has joined #lnd 14:54 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85-118-78-184.mtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:59 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-10-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:10 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@85.118.81.220] has joined #lnd 15:14 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-94-228-107-190.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #lnd 15:18 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-94-228-107-190.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:32 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lnd 15:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lnd 15:54 <@roasbeef> booyah: nothing, as it they just do nothing, but ideally they have a financial incentive to do _something_ 15:54 <@roasbeef> it's one of those things, like building a ton of infra and writing code to defend against things that ideally in the future never even get executed 15:55 <@roasbeef> all deterrence code, and mechanisms surrounding it 15:55 <@roasbeef> but in the end, it's a 1-of-n security model really, you only need one to act 15:56 <@roasbeef> even after the fact, if a breach is succesful, one can present evidence to the outside world that a breach actually took place 16:32 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.26.145] has joined #lnd 17:13 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef opened pull request #1187: peer: fix possible deadlock between peer/discMsgStream, gossiper, and… (master...disc-msg-stream-quit-deadlock) https://git.io/vprkr 17:15 -!- ironclownfish [47edda7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.237.218.124] has joined #lnd 17:19 -!- fitzsim [~user@69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lnd 17:22 -!- shem[m] [shemmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dbuybofeityycicb] has left #lnd ["Kicked by @appservice-irc:matrix.org : removing from IRC because user idle on matrix for 30+ days"] 17:31 -!- DrOlmer [~DrOlmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined #lnd 17:34 -!- DrOlmer [~DrOlmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has quit [Client Quit] 17:34 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined #lnd 17:39 < Drolmer> so I have plain `lncli sendpayment` in a loop sending to another directly connected node (diff data-center) and I'm getting 2-3 TPS... is that about right (for the current stage)? 17:43 < lndbot> simnet? 17:44 < lndbot> shouldn't matter, just curious 17:45 < Drolmer> mainnet 17:46 < lndbot> hmm, I wonder if it'd be different if you pregenerated some dozens of invoices and used payinvoice instead 17:47 <@roasbeef> Drolmer: i get thousands 17:47 <@roasbeef> use the streaming api 17:47 <@roasbeef> otherwise you block and wait for each one 17:47 <@roasbeef> whereas you can batch them, so like 100+ in a single commit 17:47 <@roasbeef> lncli sendpayment also includes all the overhead of TLS and initial grpc connectoin 17:48 < lndbot> whats the max TPS you've seen so far dr beef? 17:48 <@roasbeef> fwiw tps is really irrelevant at this stage, which is why we don't even try to optimize 17:48 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.26.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:48 <@roasbeef> 2-3k, but this was before some of the additional persistence in the the switch to make it fully reliable 17:48 <@roasbeef> iirc we took a 20% hit or so, but haven't really cared to measure since then 17:49 < lndbot> yeah I imagine with how fast things change any metric we talk about will quickly become stale 17:49 < lndbot> plus eltoo could completely change a lot of things down the road 17:49 <@roasbeef> metric does't really mean much as the number of off-chain tps is unbounded 17:50 <@roasbeef> also single channel 17:50 <@roasbeef> eltoo likely makes things slower 17:50 <@roasbeef> since you need to come to agreement on what the state is 17:50 <@roasbeef> while with asymetric commitments, we don't ahve a strong synchronization point 17:50 <@roasbeef> both side have their own commitmetn chain and can proceed at their own pace 17:50 <@roasbeef> it's fully desynchronized 17:52 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:53 < Drolmer> roasbeef thx 17:54 < lndbot> having another commitment scheme means you can pick and choose what's important for you which is nice 17:55 <@roasbeef> yep, just important that ppl are aware of the tradeoffs 17:55 <@roasbeef> symmetric state doesn't replace asymmetric state 17:55 < lndbot> slightly different security model too since it doesn't have punishment txs, I'm still getting up to speed on it myself 17:55 < lndbot> but exciting stuff 17:56 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lnd 17:56 <@roasbeef> could be seen as a negative since it doesn't have punishment 17:56 <@roasbeef> chating is then of positive expected value 17:57 <@roasbeef> worst case, your'e no better off that you were before 17:57 <@roasbeef> would expect to see a higehr number of attempted breaches, as in that case they're costless 17:57 <@roasbeef> so no more detterance, instead it's a "catch me if you can, as if i see you're asleep, i'll give it a shot" 17:57 <@roasbeef> worst case mor txns on chain as well 17:58 <@roasbeef> as you detect the other party defected, so it's in your interest to actually play the best state for _you_ 17:58 <@roasbeef> this can manifest onchain in many rounds, with eventually maybe someone running out of utxos to use for fees, or just going to the final stage 17:58 <@roasbeef> the strategy for symmetric state is very different 18:00 < lndbot> hmmm. so possibly eltoo-based channels would best be served via cooperatively funded channels, since the expected state differential would be less divergent from on-chain plus any previous states. 18:00 < lndbot> hmm, then 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