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joined #lnd 11:05 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07 -!- botka [~nodebot@static.171.39.76.144.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] joostjager opened pull request #1358: routing: routing may come up with suboptimal routes (weight function) (master...newfee) https://git.io/vhaY9 11:08 -!- botka [~nodebot@static.171.39.76.144.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lnd 11:17 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 11:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28 -!- joost_ [~joost@ip51cf95f6.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lnd 11:34 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 11:56 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1] 12:02 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25 -!- Pioklo_ [Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has joined #lnd 12:29 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57 -!- dee-sai [~dalitsair@2a02:aa10:e87f:6280:10dc:cdcf:65f:a222] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39 -!- dee-sai [~dalitsair@2a02:aa10:e87f:6280:35b5:d450:6f60:698] has joined #lnd 13:48 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 13:57 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 14:21 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 14:28 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lnd 14:30 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 14:44 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:45 -!- joost_ [~joost@ip51cf95f6.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58 -!- Pioklo_ [Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: drexl] 15:26 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 15:31 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 15:44 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 15:44 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-34-211-143-113.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-34-211-143-113.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lnd 15:54 <@roasbeef> tyzbit: i don't really get it, i pay you for some possibly false mapping? 15:58 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:58 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 16:03 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lnd 16:21 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 16:27 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 16:34 -!- OS-11936 [~OS-11936-@unaffiliated/os-11936] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:34 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37 < lndbot2> so here's how it works 16:38 < lndbot2> you create a mapping, say username -> pubkey 16:38 < lndbot2> and you offer to pay other people that look it up 16:38 < lndbot2> if you actually fulfill the invoice, you can be reasonably certain that the mapping is valid 16:38 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 9 new commits to master: https://git.io/vha4I 16:38 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master dcf76a5 Conner Fromknecht: lnpeer: birth of peer package!... 16:38 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 769f0f0 Conner Fromknecht: discovery/gossiper_test: mock out new lnpeer.Peer 16:38 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master edf0845 Conner Fromknecht: peer: changes to satisfy lnpeer.Peer... 16:38 < lndbot2> now, someone else can come along and try to usurp you and create their own mapping 16:38 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 16:39 < lndbot2> like change your pubkey to a different one 16:39 < lndbot2> but if they do that, _they_ also gotta pay out too, otherwise why trust the mapping 16:39 < lndbot2> you're forcing people who make claims to put their money where their mouth is 16:39 <@roasbeef> i pay ppl to tell them possibly nonsense data? 16:39 < lndbot2> yep 16:39 < lndbot2> could even be memes kek 16:39 < lndbot2> the dankest memes on Lightning network 16:39 <@roasbeef> don't see the use 16:39 < lndbot2> it doesn't matter what people wanna put on there 16:40 < lndbot2> the way I envision it, is a user sits at a search box 16:40 < lndbot2> and searches for "tyzbit" 16:40 <@roasbeef> goal is that the "truth" will be the higher payout for a particualr data? 16:40 < lndbot2> and gets my website, my pubkey, my info 16:40 < lndbot2> and they know it's correct because their daemon got paid to look up that info 16:40 <@roasbeef> how does it reconcile duplicate attestations 16:40 < lndbot2> whichever pays the MOST 16:40 < lndbot2> so 16:40 < lndbot2> for example 16:40 <@roasbeef> so i can pay more than the "honest" participant? 16:40 <@roasbeef> and just fool everyone 16:41 <@roasbeef> so the richest own all the names? 16:41 < lndbot2> yep, essentially if you can outbid the honest node you get to control the mapping 16:41 < lndbot2> but look at it another way 16:41 <@roasbeef> seems like a terrible failure mode 16:41 < lndbot2> tyzbit, seems there’s also a cost/storage trade off 16:41 < lndbot2> look at the RFC PR 16:41 < lndbot2> I outlined a message type that's node reputation 16:42 < lndbot2> safest option is pay for every authentication 16:42 < lndbot2> if someone does some shady shit, you distribute a message that says that node is wrong 16:42 < lndbot2> and you pay to tell the truth 16:42 < lndbot2> but if i don’t want to do that, i need to cache all of the pubkeys i ever see 16:42 < lndbot2> you don't need to cache every pubkey 16:42 < lndbot2> then how do i know to update? 16:42 < lndbot2> you only control your own mappings 16:42 < lndbot2> and when? 16:42 < lndbot2> you can optionally mirror other people's mappings 16:43 < lndbot2> wdym by mirror? 16:43 < lndbot2> well like 16:43 < lndbot2> so my node says Tyzbit -> qtosw.com 16:43 < lndbot2> for my website 16:43 < lndbot2> but another node can also "host" this data if they choose 16:43 < lndbot2> and that helps me out 16:43 < lndbot2> someone who wants to host their own data but can't have online nodes all the time can also choose to pay honest nodes who host mirrored mappings 16:44 < lndbot2> so lets take a simple example 16:44 < lndbot2> DNS 16:44 < lndbot2> you can mirror DNS mappings onto Atlas to have a secure, distributed, privacy protecting DNS service 16:45 < lndbot2> and if a node lies, you just fact check them by doing your own DNS query 16:45 < lndbot2> and then you distribute your own message with the node's pubkey that the node is hosting false mappings 16:45 < lndbot2> and again, you pay clients that make the query 16:45 < lndbot2> again, you're putting your money where your mouth is lol 16:46 < lndbot2> if nothing else, this helps eltoo and Lightning in general for a reputation system for nodes that's fair 16:46 < lndbot2> and also would assist in rebalancing channels 16:51 < lndbot2> but how do we guarantee that they’re mirroring honestly? 16:51 < lndbot2> if they're not mirroring honestly, then just keep requesting they pay out to you 16:51 < lndbot2> eventually they'll stop paying you 16:51 < lndbot2> it sounds like anyone can attest to anything, and the only tie breaker is how much they pay 16:52 < lndbot2> also, if you and a friend both know they're not mirroring honestly, you can sybil attack the dishonest node 16:52 < lndbot2> in a way, the network at large keeps everyone honest 16:52 < lndbot2> detection != prevention 16:52 < lndbot2> some data will be difficult for more than one person to verify 16:52 < lndbot2> some people will have their identities stolen 16:53 < lndbot2> but if a big enough mapping is wrong, that is one that enough people care about, the whole network sybil's the shit out of the dishonest node 16:53 < lndbot2> for free money lol 16:53 < lndbot2> those are shaky grounds to build an identity/reputation service ;) 16:53 < lndbot2> I'm happy to continue to answer any questions y'all have 16:53 < lndbot2> seriously, tell me what flaws you can think of 16:53 < lndbot2> I don't know if this is a perfect system 16:55 < lndbot2> my concern is that the cost to equivocate an identity is very low, and that you can target individual users 16:55 < lndbot2> so for example, one thing I thought of is "oh, what if someone just connects and spams requests" but something that prevents that is directionality of channels -- you can't receive money on Lightning until you've already paid 16:56 < lndbot2> yeah, that's what I'm concerned about too, is individual mappings 16:56 < lndbot2> I want grandma to be able to have her blog's DNS be lookupable without some jerk hijacking it 16:56 < lndbot2> so if grandma gets attacked, she might have to pay more unfortunately 16:57 < lndbot2> i think it also requires the entity to be in constant surveillance mode, to protect their users 16:57 < lndbot2> luckily this is on Lightning, so micro and smaller payments could be made. this all could be dust payments that are flying around powering this thing 16:57 < lndbot2> with current CA system, i register for a year and i know i have a year 16:57 < lndbot2> the entity? you mean whoever made the mappings? 16:57 < lndbot2> correct, whoever is trying to be honest 16:57 < lndbot2> with this, anyone can come along and steal my mapping by paying more 16:58 < lndbot2> yeah, it means unique or memorable mappings are pricier 16:58 < lndbot2> but tbh, Google should be able to pay for their own name 16:58 < lndbot2> but nobody cares about "tyzbit" 16:58 < lndbot2> only I care about that 16:59 < lndbot2> how would you go about convince server operators to pay for authentication, vs using something that’s free? 16:59 < lndbot2> well, decentralized authentication has some value doesn't it? 16:59 < lndbot2> but the quality of the maps are not 1-1 16:59 < lndbot2> consider it a micropayment in a different direction 16:59 < lndbot2> right, you can't be sure of identities, only reasonably certain 17:00 < lndbot2> but lets think this out 17:00 < lndbot2> okay so imagine I'm someone rich and famous, and I want my info out there for people to look up, but I'm stingy 17:00 < lndbot2> someone else who's heard of this rich and famous person can pay a little more than the stingy person and "dethrone" them 17:01 < lndbot2> so the popular or contested mappings cost more 17:01 < lndbot2> only unimportant mappings are left alone 17:01 < lndbot2> and in that case, that means grandma with her blog that gets 1 view per week still can have distributed, decentralized DNS because nobody will care to hijack her 17:02 < lndbot2> combined with the node reputation system whereby you can knock off nodes that lie, you can have a network of "honest" nodes 17:02 < lndbot2> so think of eltoo for example 17:03 < lndbot2> eltoo has no penalty system, so it requires other stuff to make sure people don't lose money by broadcasting final states 17:03 < lndbot2> Atlas could allow you to "tell on" the node to the network at large that it breached a channel, provide blockchain proof of it, and then other node operators can know "hey this node breached a channel, maybe I better preemptively close mine if I have any with them" 17:04 < lndbot2> Atlas is kind of like the watchtower system 17:04 < lndbot2> that way you don't have to be online all the time, nor does anyone else on the network tbh 17:05 < lndbot2> it's the honor system, in a way 17:05 <@roasbeef> you don't really know _who_ breached the eltoo channel as the state is symmetric, just that one was breached 17:05 < lndbot2> eltoo has no penalty system, but it still has strong guarantees because the outcome is bound cryptographically 17:06 <@roasbeef> you can't ascribe blame, only know its existence 17:06 < lndbot2> ah, well then perhaps this might not work well for eltoo in its current state 17:06 <@roasbeef> "who ever pays the most, ever, wins" doesn't really seem ideal 17:06 < lndbot2> I don't know enough about the details of eltoo 17:06 < lndbot2> @roasbeef how much does truth cost? 17:06 <@roasbeef> ln we can tell who breached as the state is symmetric 17:06 < lndbot2> is the truth free? 17:06 <@roasbeef> idk m8, ask ghandi 17:07 < lndbot2> the truth has to have some sort of price 17:07 < molz> i'll get roger to pay and get all your marbles :P 17:07 <@roasbeef> lol 17:07 < lndbot2> lol 17:07 < molz> rusty would say "you're trolling" 17:07 <@roasbeef> typically, there are other measures (signalling or w/e) to assert the validity of a claim 17:07 <@roasbeef> whoever pays the most is correct...sounds horrible 17:07 < lndbot2> the way I see it, the entire network can offer to pay for the truth 17:07 < lndbot2> you can then query any node for it 17:07 < molz> and who would you pay for this? 17:07 < lndbot2> and if the node lies and you know it, you tattle 17:08 < molz> tybit is going to open an 'atlas' shop? 17:08 < lndbot2> it's just like grade school! lol 17:08 < lndbot2> there’s no _cryptographic_ guarantee to the mappings correctness 17:08 < lndbot2> @moli mebbe 17:08 < lndbot2> the entries are freely mutable by anyone with a budget 17:08 < lndbot2> yes, precisely connor 17:08 < molz> tyzbit ah so this is your plan all along.. 17:08 < lndbot2> you can't be cryptographically sure of anything on the Atlas network 17:08 < lndbot2> but you can get paid to believe it 17:09 <@roasbeef> so i can just drain a node by querying them a buncha times? 17:09 <@roasbeef> zero cost to me? only benefit 17:09 < lndbot2> yeah, but paying a node requires a pubkey 17:09 * roasbeef writes his atlas bot 17:09 < molz> nobody is going to buy into this, im not concerned 17:09 < lndbot2> so if a node misbehaves by making lots of queries, then THAT's misbehaving and you ban them from making queries and tattle 17:10 < lndbot2> who do yo tattle to? 17:10 < lndbot2> to the network at large with an Atlas message 17:10 < lndbot2> how do they know you’re tattling honestly? 17:10 < lndbot2> you pay to tattle 17:10 <@roasbeef> how do you prove it? 17:11 < lndbot2> funds 17:11 < lndbot2> fees, fees everywhere 17:11 < lndbot2> reverse fees 17:11 <@roasbeef> so i can tattle on you? with more monies as you're a pleb and i'm the king of EOS? 17:11 < lndbot2> yeah, whoever has the most Bitcoin controls the truth 17:11 <@roasbeef> that sucks 17:11 < lndbot2> that's the cost of truth, I guess 17:11 < lndbot2> I feel bad for Satoshi 17:11 <@roasbeef> at least IRL things are a bit more indirect 17:11 < lndbot2> he has all that bitcoin but no privacy because of chainanalysis and shit 17:12 <@roasbeef> the key's are actually a channel 17:12 <@roasbeef> they've sold those coins already 17:12 < lndbot2> actually, this would make for a good distributed exchange rate thing 17:12 < lndbot2> now that I think about it 17:12 <@roasbeef> uhh... 17:12 < lndbot2> satoshi had 2pecdsa working before he published bitcoin 17:12 < lndbot2> pay for the truth as far as exchange rates for cryptocurrencies go 17:13 <@roasbeef> again...why would anyone opt in to that 17:13 <@roasbeef> i can pay as much as my upside would allow me to 17:13 <@roasbeef> and can be aymmstric due to leverage on exchanges 17:13 < lndbot2> because the exchange rate is a valuable thing to know? 17:13 < lndbot2> is information free? 17:13 <@roasbeef> many times, yes 17:13 < lndbot2> false information is worthless, but the truth is priceless 17:13 < lndbot2> so why not pay a little in search of truth? 17:14 <@roasbeef> because the incentives are broken 17:14 < lndbot2> why would we revert to a system that offers weaker security, when we already know how to build systems with stronger ones? 17:14 < lndbot2> because we search for truth, not cryptographic proofs 17:14 < lndbot2> Bitcoin offers solid cryptographic proof of ownership 17:15 < lndbot2> but Atlas would offer a map (that's why it's called Atlas) to what the entire network agrees to be true 17:15 < lndbot2> it may or may not be objectively true 17:15 < lndbot2> there are a lot of problems with this too 17:15 < lndbot2> such as what to map, what language it should be in etc 17:16 < lndbot2> I don't deny that, but I appreciate the feedback to hash out the details 17:16 <@roasbeef> you're basically trying to create a consesus protocol on the "truth" where whoever can pay the most and censor others wins 17:16 < lndbot2> yeah, but don't think about just one node 17:16 < lndbot2> other nodes can decide to claim the same thing if they want 17:17 < lndbot2> if it's something important or something they care about 17:17 < lndbot2> for example, their bank website's IP address 17:17 < lndbot2> they don't wanna get phished, so they decide to mirror that mapping 17:17 < lndbot2> (of course we all know banks are on their way out ;)) 17:18 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: drexl] 17:19 <@roasbeef> idk, we already have much stronger systems for stuff like this 17:19 < lndbot2> how about "What's the best sub shop in San Francisco" 17:19 < lndbot2> like blockchains :slightly_smiling_face: 17:19 < lndbot2> what's the truth there? 17:19 < lndbot2> Atlas allows decentralized Google 17:19 < lndbot2> text is just data 17:19 <@roasbeef> i eclipse your node 17:19 <@roasbeef> all you queries go to 17:19 <@roasbeef> me 17:20 <@roasbeef> i make you go to my little cousins sammich shop 17:20 <@roasbeef> he makes ham and cheese 17:20 <@roasbeef> that's it 17:20 < lndbot2> well then I'll happily get paid to try the sub shop myself 17:20 <@roasbeef> i'm all the nodes, i pay you next to nothing for the query 17:20 < lndbot2> and if it's really the worst sub shop ever, if it really pisses me off that that was so wrong, I make my own mapping giving them a bad review 17:20 <@roasbeef> you buy the sammich, i make more money that what i paid you 17:20 <@roasbeef> lol i don't think we want "yelp" on the network... 17:21 <@roasbeef> your mapping goes nowhere 17:21 < lndbot2> who are you to say what people do on Lightning? 17:21 <@roasbeef> i've ecliped your node 17:21 < lndbot2> or what they use it for 17:21 < lndbot2> Yelp is centralized 17:21 <@roasbeef> i'm nobody, but it's a network of channels, not sourced reviwed on sandwiches 17:21 < lndbot2> do _you_ trust centralized shit? seriously? 17:21 <@roasbeef> Yelp is pretty great 17:21 <@roasbeef> dunno what you use 17:21 < lndbot2> yeah but why do you trust them? 17:22 < lndbot2> they could lie to you 17:22 <@roasbeef> path dependence, incentives, lindy effect 17:22 < lndbot2> hell they do with paid promotions 17:22 < lndbot2> where companies pay to get featured and have better listings on yelp 17:22 < lndbot2> maybe those companies' subs _aren't_ the best and Yelp is lying to you 17:23 < lndbot2> do you like ads? 17:23 < lndbot2> nobody likes ads, they get in the way 17:23 < lndbot2> what if the ad paid you? 17:23 <@roasbeef> funds most of the web, so i'm chill w/ it for the most part 17:23 < lndbot2> in soviet russia, ads pay you! 17:23 <@roasbeef> lol 17:23 < lndbot2> well I hate them 17:23 < lndbot2> they're intrusive, they're obnoxious, they sometimes come with spyware 17:23 <@roasbeef> what do you use instead? ask read txid's and try to ascertain what the best option is? 17:24 <@roasbeef> yeh i blockem 17:24 < lndbot2> I hate that good stuff is so hard to just organically find 17:24 < lndbot2> you say you don't mind ads, but you block em 17:24 < lndbot2> so the content creators don't get paid 17:24 < lndbot2> so what you're saying is you don't mind ads for other people, but not for you lol 17:24 <@roasbeef> this is really getting away from the issues 17:24 <@roasbeef> whoever pays the most, and can eclipse other nodes wins 17:24 <@roasbeef> that's horrible 17:25 < lndbot2> in order to pay out on Lightning, you need to have made a transaction already 17:25 < lndbot2> so in order to pay lots of funds, you'd have to buy lots of shit on Lightniing 17:25 < lndbot2> isn't that correct though? 17:27 <@roasbeef> first statement is false 17:28 < lndbot2> I mean in order to receive funds 17:28 < lndbot2> so in order to make a false mapping assertion, you'd need to have a bunch of other nodes make requests to the mapping 17:28 < lndbot2> otherwise it'll just sit there dusty and unpaid 17:29 <@roasbeef> still false 17:30 < lndbot2> the mappings are only valuable if they get paid 17:30 < lndbot2> the mappings are only valuable to someone if the node paid you to receive it, I mean 17:31 < lndbot2> so the entire network would have to choose to prefer the false mapping 17:31 < lndbot2> knocking the "true" mapping off the map 17:32 <@roasbeef> i can knock the true off, by eclipsing you 17:32 <@roasbeef> you're try to use a gossip protocol to come to conensus on a fact 17:33 <@roasbeef> take a look at "avalanche" i guess? lol 17:33 < lndbot2> if you have more Bitcoin, and more nodes, then the only thing I can do is register my own mapping that says you're lying and pay out satoshis to back up my claim 17:33 <@roasbeef> your payment goes to me 17:33 <@roasbeef> i don't propagate your mapping 17:33 < lndbot2> and any other node that decides to try to get paid for it 17:33 < lndbot2> and if I pay to say you've misbehaved.... 17:33 < lndbot2> then maybe I'm telling the truth 17:33 <@roasbeef> do you see how weak this all is? 17:34 < lndbot2> there's no math, no cryptographic assertions, I acquiesce that 17:34 < lndbot2> I'm not a math guy lol 17:35 < lndbot2> but like I said, I appreciate the input and I'd love for this to actually work the way I hope it will 17:35 < lndbot2> if you're right then it probably won't 17:36 < lndbot2> I'll keep thinking about it, and hopefully can convince you and others that it could work 17:36 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36 < lndbot2> now, time for some pizza lol 17:36 -!- ChunkyPuffs [~ChunkyPuf@gateway/tor-sasl/chunkypuffs] has joined #lnd 17:37 <@roasbeef> from this convo, i'm not very convinved 17:38 <@roasbeef> however, if you pay me 1 BTC...I might reconsider and attest to this truth 17:38 < molz> lololol 17:38 < molz> ya pay me 10 BTC and i'll shill for you 17:39 <@roasbeef> price goes up by 0.5 BTC each hour, if you want to spread the truth, act quickly!! 17:39 < molz> LMAO! 17:39 < lndbot2> lol I bet if I paid you 1BTC you still wouldn't believe me 17:41 <@roasbeef> i bet if you paid be 1 BTC, i'd take another bet where you paid be 2 BTC 17:41 <@roasbeef> me* 17:41 < lndbot2> gimme an address 17:44 < lndbot2> lol you won't 17:45 < lndbot2> how about a deal instead of a bet 17:45 < lndbot2> if I pay you 1BTC, you never doubt me again 17:47 < lndbot2> or at the very least, let me explain 17:49 < molz> so you like to bribe, tyzbit? 17:49 < lndbot2> I just believe that this crazy idea might just work 17:49 < lndbot2> and I'll happily patiently explain how to make it better to all doubters 17:49 <@roasbeef> bc1q635jr8fndxh2mdtqmcerjpwa228wmcssng82a7 17:49 <@roasbeef> ok lemmie know when you send tzbit 17:49 < molz> you can go and try it on your own, but it shouldn't be in the protocol 17:50 <@roasbeef> will shill w/e you want 17:50 < lndbot2> done. 17:50 < lndbot2> everything has a price. 17:50 < lndbot2> even beliefs 17:52 <@roasbeef> i didn't get that 17:52 <@roasbeef> can you try again? 17:52 < lndbot2> lol 17:52 < lndbot2> we'll see if it confirms 17:52 < lndbot2> if it doesn't confirm, I'll send it again 17:52 < lndbot2> let me know if it confirms >:] 17:53 <@roasbeef> new addr if you need: bc1q482zrpz2kcw8u40knrdwzel9t5w6spzfyxccnh 17:54 < lndbot2> again, just let me know if it doesn't confirm I've already put my trezor away 17:54 < lndbot2> give it some time 17:54 < lndbot2> if you don't understand or don't believe me, that's fine. I will wait. 17:55 <@roasbeef> lol uhhh, i'm gonna send this back 17:55 < lndbot2> not giving you an address 17:55 < lndbot2> we made a deal. 17:55 < lndbot2> I'm a man of my word. 17:55 <@roasbeef> aight what should i shill? EOS? tron? 17:56 <@roasbeef> i'll do IOTA for a lil extra 17:56 < lndbot2> just help me build it, please 17:56 < lndbot2> it's not an ICO 17:56 < lndbot2> it's just a feature on Lightning 17:56 < lndbot2> but I don't know Go coding very well 17:56 < lndbot2> I can't build this by myself, I know that. 17:56 < lndbot2> I will need your help, and I respect your opinion 17:56 < lndbot2> Why don’t you build it as your own thing? 17:57 < lndbot2> because Lightning already exists I guess lol 17:57 < lndbot2> I think it makes the whole network more valuable, as far as features are concerned 17:57 < lndbot2> Yeah but it exists as a platform to build on, not everything has to live in-protocol 17:57 < lndbot2> Bitcoin exists but Lightning doesn’t have to be built in Bitcoin Core 17:57 < lndbot2> the mappings are just an optional feature nodes can choose not to support 17:57 < lndbot2> sitting as a simple database on the same system 17:58 < lndbot2> I mean hell, I could make this and no one could use it 17:58 < lndbot2> that'd be fine with me 17:58 < lndbot2> Even if you want to piggy back on top of the protocol you could just tweak things so that there’s an interface for your custom feature flags 17:58 < lndbot2> Your stuff doesn’t even have to be in Go 17:58 < lndbot2> well, I'm familiar with LND 17:58 < lndbot2> I'm not a programmer 17:58 < lndbot2> I'm just some dude who had an idea that I genuinely thought could change the world for the better 18:01 < lndbot2> It can integrate with Lightning without living inside of a Lightning daemon or enshrined in the protocol is more my point, so you can find some outside dev and talk to them about it and prove it out with them 18:08 <@roasbeef> gotta love the handicap principle 18:13 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef closed pull request #1350: Switch duplicate links (master...switch-duplicate-links) https://git.io/vh2WU 18:22 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25 -!- damnlib [4086de9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.222.154] has joined #lnd 18:25 < damnlib> wat up 18:32 <@roasbeef> damnlib: oy 18:33 <@roasbeef> where's the lib 18:33 <@roasbeef> ? 18:35 < damnlib> well I recently tried running a java program and it had 300 libraries and dependencies, programming is out of control 18:38 < damnlib> hence the name 18:39 <@roasbeef> yeh it ain't the same 18:39 <@roasbeef> i miss doing times tables on paper 18:56 < damnlib> I cant work on setting up LND because my bitcoind keeps getting shut down improperly and it takes days to resync/reindex 18:57 <@roasbeef> why's it getting shutdown? 18:57 < damnlib> I can just delete the whole folder and download the blockchain in 10 hours instead 18:57 <@roasbeef> guessing you're running on a VPS? 18:57 < damnlib> well yeah I keep thinking I'll try a different VPS or something then I shut it down but then I realize I want to try something else 18:58 < damnlib> now I have 2 computers that are doing a reindex for days 18:59 < damnlib> the reindex is limited to 1 core(maxing it out) even tho I have 12 cores 19:02 < damnlib> ok I learned my lesson the first time on VPS-A as it's taking over 3 days to reindex, I thought my 12 core server would be way faster so I shut it down improperly anyway, now that one is also resync'ing, now I don't have a computer to use 19:03 < lndbot2> i got a full node synced in 5 hours 19:03 < lndbot2> with bitcoind 19:04 < damnlib> I dont know what the hell bitcoin core is doing when it takes over 3 days to reindex when I could resync in 5 hours? 19:05 < lndbot2> I remember to read that the new lnd doesn’t require txindex, am I correct @roasbeef? 19:18 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 19:20 < damnlib> well it's not processing new blocks until it goes done reindex'ing and I need fund my first lightning channel 19:24 < damnlib> I didn't want to use btcd because there's only 38 btcd nodes globally and Im not keen on doxing myself 19:46 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:52 -!- navybluesilver [~user@180.251.221.106] has joined #lnd 19:55 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 19:59 -!- navybluesilver [~user@180.251.221.106] has left #lnd [] 20:27 < molz> a few years ago i tested the reindex on my laptop, it took 7 days.. that was before LN and LND time.. i'd never do it like that again 20:29 < molz> bitcoin v0.16.0 can sync really fast, if you have a corrupt database, just delete it and redownload the chain, run it with '-assumvalid', it can be done in just a few hours 20:56 < damnlib> thanks for the -assumvalid tip, the sync only uses 1 core and I got 1 gigabit connection so I think it will max out my internet connection with -assumvalid 21:00 -!- damnlib [4086de9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.222.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has joined #lnd 21:18 < molz> hm really? 21:26 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has joined #lnd 21:28 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has left #lnd [] 21:32 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has joined #lnd 21:39 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39 -!- lcpfnvcy [~mememe@196.201.6.216] has joined #lnd 21:52 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12 -!- gaxl [aed202ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.210.2.255] has joined #lnd 22:18 -!- gaxl is now known as betterdays 22:21 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@50.90.83.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:29 -!- betterdays [aed202ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.210.2.255] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:30 -!- ittakesthree [aed202ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.210.2.255] has joined #lnd 22:30 -!- ittakesthree [aed202ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.210.2.255] has left #lnd [] 22:37 -!- YoureReadingThis [aed202ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.210.2.255] has joined #lnd 22:38 < lndbot2> really what?? 22:38 < YoureReadingThis> because you're forced to 22:39 < lndbot2> I'm confus 22:45 -!- jchia_ [~jchia@58.32.35.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03 -!- jchia_1 [~jchia@58.32.37.78] has joined #lnd 23:10 -!- usil [~foo@odisej.fmf.uni-lj.si] has joined #lnd 23:13 -!- joost_ [~joost@ip51cf95f6.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lnd 23:47 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has joined #lnd 23:49 -!- bitconne1 [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lnd 23:52 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-34-211-143-113.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]