--- Day changed Wed Jun 05 2019 00:13 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lnd 00:13 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14 -!- Eagle[TM] [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:16 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 00:17 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.67.188] has joined #lnd 00:21 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@2001:16b8:487b:7800:c171:b0d6:4a79:ef5c] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:23 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 00:42 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 00:45 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.67.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@2001:16b8:487b:7800:79b3:452f:b256:48a3] has joined #lnd 01:15 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 01:26 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+xenial2 - https://znc.in] 01:28 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 01:33 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+xenial2 - https://znc.in] 01:33 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has joined #lnd 01:34 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 01:45 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 01:50 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:50 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 01:50 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:50 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:50 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:56 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+xenial2 - https://znc.in] 01:57 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 02:00 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 02:02 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 02:04 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 02:07 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:35 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 02:40 -!- alec [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has joined #lnd 02:40 -!- alec is now known as Guest66626 02:41 < Guest66626> hi all, anyone there? I need some help understanding why my node is not piping any transaction 02:42 < Guest66626> my node is linked with 20 other nodes and active since months but I can't see anything appear on the feereport 02:42 < Guest66626> I am surely missing something but I can't figure out what 02:42 < Guest66626> any help is very appreciated 02:43 -!- Guest66626 [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has quit [Client Quit] 02:44 -!- Ahahaha [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has joined #lnd 02:44 < Ahahaha> hello, anyone there? 02:45 -!- bbbb [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has joined #lnd 02:45 < bbbb> test 02:45 -!- bbbb [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: yeh 03:08 < Ahahaha> great! 03:09 < Ahahaha> I have a problem with my node. I am looking for help 03:09 < Ahahaha> well, the only problem is that it is not routing any paiment even though it is connected to other 20 nodes since months. 03:09 < Ahahaha> probably I am missing something but I can't figure out what 03:10 < waxwing> Ahahaha, do you have inbound capacity? 03:11 < Ahahaha> I don't. I have BTC on my wallet but I am not sure how to finance the channels 03:11 < Ahahaha> I thought the autopilot would do the job for me 03:11 -!- siom__ [~siom@195.12.48.205] has joined #lnd 03:12 < waxwing> to get inbound capacity, you either need people to open channels to you, or you need to spend outwards. 03:12 < waxwing> but, there are services that help to allow inbound capacity, e.g. via an on-chain payment. but ... shrug, not sure, i'm not really involved in this stuff. 03:14 < Ahahaha> Unfortunately I can't find much on the lnd docs. Can you suggest me some link to get more info on how to get inbound? 03:15 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: there's no bug there really 03:15 <@roasbeef> no node is guaranteed to route payments 03:16 <@roasbeef> just like you're not guaranteed to catch fish at some pond 03:16 < Ahahaha> but I would expect to route once in a while 03:16 < Ahahaha> it's been months since I started the node 03:16 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: you can get inbound using https://github.com/lightninglabs/loop 03:16 <@roasbeef> really depends 03:16 < Ahahaha> I was checking this loop, also in this case the docs are not that explicit 03:17 <@roasbeef> i'd say the current supply of bandwidth on the network is ahead of the actual demand 03:17 <@roasbeef> explicit as in how to get it working, or what it does? 03:19 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1+xenial2 - https://znc.in] 03:19 < waxwing> Fwiw, as a casual user i can't see any point in even trying to collect tx fees, except for the cool factor; i mean we're talking individual satoshis or something ... 03:20 < waxwing> try using it to pay for stuff, it's fun :) also this will naturally create some inbound. also interesting is to try having more than one channel and pay one from the other. 03:20 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 03:21 < Ahahaha> it's just for testing it. Don't care about the fees, I actually lowered the fee on my node to the bare minimum. 03:21 < Ahahaha> about LOOP. I don't get how to use it. 03:22 < Ahahaha> I would just like to have my node contributing to the network. But so far is just there sitting and not doing anything 03:22 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: so it's a command line tool, you do like "loop out N" to gain N satosh is of inbound 03:22 <@roasbeef> you can also target a particualr channel 03:23 <@roasbeef> your capital is deployed, and if it's needed, then it'll be used 03:23 <@roasbeef> consider this case: 10 nodes, 20 channels, 2 payments a day, not all nodes there will actually forward payment 03:23 <@roasbeef> payments* 03:23 < Ahahaha> Also, why would autopilot connect my node to other if then the channels are kept empty? 03:24 <@roasbeef> channels are kept empty? 03:24 <@roasbeef> as in not being used? 03:24 < Ahahaha> yes. not used 03:26 <@roasbeef> it's a matter of demand and utilization 03:26 < Ahahaha> using LOOP, shall I loop out all I have to be sure my BTC are used by the network for routing transactions? Or will I just waste them? 03:28 <@roasbeef> if all your channels are outbound, then people can't route thru you 03:29 <@roasbeef> but, if you use something like loop to gain inbound, then you'll be able to route properly 03:30 < Ahahaha> where do I find info about the INBOUND/OUTBOUND stuff and how to properly configure a node to make it route payments? 03:31 < Ahahaha> I'll try using 03:31 < Ahahaha> LOOP 03:32 < Ahahaha> although, in none of the guides I have read so far people used it. They just started the node and after a few days they were getting fees. I thought I would be automatic 03:33 < Ahahaha> it would have been automatic 03:35 < molz> lolol 03:35 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: so we have a pretty big guide coming out soon that goes over stuff like thsi 03:35 < molz> all these noobs and their greed for fees... 03:35 <@roasbeef> but at the end of the day, they won't ever be an easy button 03:35 <@roasbeef> the universe doesn't leave free money hanging around the ground for long 03:36 <@roasbeef> it's a market, and things will only get more competitive 03:36 <@roasbeef> tho things are still very eearly 03:36 < molz> yup.. so many nodes out there to compete 03:37 < molz> Ahahaha, my node earned 2 satoshis this month, i'm filthy rich!!!! :D 03:37 < Ahahaha> really, it's not about the fees. It will take thousands of years to make a buck with LND. I just want to actively participate. 03:38 < molz> just be honest, it's all about the fees, otherwise you would try to learn to understand the tech first 03:40 <@roasbeef> Ahahaha: you're already participating, but if you manage your chanenls a bit better, then that may make your node more attractive 03:40 <@roasbeef> but see my point there about supply/demand 03:40 < Ahahaha> that's why I am here. I am trying to make my node run correctly. I understand very roughly how the network works. But I still have problems. That is why I am asking. Else I would not even started. 03:42 < Ahahaha> Honestly, I don't think anyone can be lured in running a node by the fees, are too low to make anything out of it. An d I like it this way. 03:43 < Ahahaha> @roasbeef I see the point of supply and demand. But if you guys are routing some transactions here and there than I am supposed to do the same. If not, then there is something wrong with my setup 03:44 < Ahahaha> at least I have understood that something is wrong with the inbound capacity and that I should solve that first. 03:44 < Ahahaha> Thanks for that! 03:46 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 03:47 < molz> Ahahaha, i learned how routing works by running a few nodes on testnet and get them to do payment sending/receiving .. test coins are free, and this is how many people learn how lightning works 03:52 < Ahahaha> That is a good point. I should have started with the testnet. 04:01 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 04:06 < waxwing> lol at the endless naming and renaming of NOINPUT ... SIGHASH_FOR_GODS_SAKE_RUN!! 04:18 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.9.19.107] has joined #lnd 04:31 -!- Ahahaha [5451eab9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.234.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:56 -!- siom__ [~siom@195.12.48.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:20 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 05:47 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:49 <@roasbeef> waxwing: heh yeh, the no input design space has really blown up lately 05:53 -!- hex17or [~hex17or@HSI-KBW-091-089-197-016.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:55 -!- hex17or [~hex17or@HSI-KBW-091-089-197-016.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lnd 05:57 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 06:04 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@167.99.109.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:06 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 06:09 -!- siom__ [~siom@195.12.48.205] has joined #lnd 06:10 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 06:14 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:15 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 06:15 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:16 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:21 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 06:22 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 06:31 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:36 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 06:37 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:43 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 06:48 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 06:48 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:52 -!- AbuseOfNotation [~AbuseOfNo@217.151.98.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:57 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 06:57 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:58 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:04 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 07:10 < Asara> oh snap just saw that async payment rpc and probability based path finding got merged. is it still not advised to run master w/ 0.18? or should I/can I give this a go? 07:12 -!- hrofu [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:13 -!- hrofu_ [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has joined #lnd 07:18 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:18 -!- hrofu [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has joined #lnd 07:19 -!- hrofu_ [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 07:24 < lndbot> I thought it wasn't advised to run any version with bitcoind 0.18 at the moment 07:26 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:28 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 07:30 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@151.251.250.29] has joined #lnd 07:32 < Asara> i'm running 0.6.1 with bitcoind 0.18 with no problems 07:32 < Asara> i heard the problem was with the master branch 07:32 < Asara> lots of lnd FUD going around eh? lol 07:34 < lndbot> no FUD, I'm just underinformed. I do know of at least one outstanding bug with bitcoind master and lnd, but I don't know if that's in 0.18.0 or not. 07:34 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 07:38 < Asara> no same here. was a joke :) 07:48 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@151.251.250.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #lnd 07:49 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 08:02 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-220-61.dab.02.net] has joined #lnd 08:05 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #lnd 08:06 < molz> no fud re: not running bitcoind v0.18, the announcement is on slack, look it up 08:13 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 08:14 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:18 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 08:24 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 08:27 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-220-61.dab.02.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 08:33 -!- berndj [~chat264@196-209-221-45.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 08:36 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-220-61.dab.02.net] has joined #lnd 08:36 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:36 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #lnd 08:39 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 08:49 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 08:49 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:49 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:54 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 08:55 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 08:55 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55 < Talkless> Citation: 08:55 < Talkless> "LND #2985 waits to relay gossip announcements until there are there are at least ten of them to send and five seconds have elapsed since the previous batch, reducing bandwidth overhead. This continues the work done by LND and other implementations towards reducing the overhead of the gossip protocol given the significant growth in the size of the LN network over the past year." 08:55 < Talkless> from 08:55 < Talkless> https://bitcoinops.org/en/newsletters/2019/06/05/ 08:56 < Talkless> could this reducde I/O overhead too? 08:56 < Talkless> for the cases like: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/3119 08:56 < Talkless> or this kind of "batching" of gossips does not really help in this in any way..? 08:57 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 09:00 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:01 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01 -!- AbuseOfNotation [~AbuseOfNo@217.151.98.168] has joined #lnd 09:01 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 09:02 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 09:06 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:07 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:09 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 09:10 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:11 < molz> Talkless, how many channels do you have? 09:11 < Talkless> molz: 13 09:12 < molz> and LND keeps eating up your CPU? 09:12 < Talkless> not cpu, dhdd 09:13 < Talkless> hdd 09:13 < Talkless> oh no, it's 17 channels, 10 active 09:14 < molz> maybe you have a worm or trojan! :D 09:14 -!- hrofu_ [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has joined #lnd 09:15 -!- hrofu [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:16 -!- siom__ [~siom@195.12.48.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:19 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 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joined #lnd 15:45 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@144.76.166.209] has joined #lnd 15:47 < spoke0> there is no multisig currently in any of the ligtning daemon implememntations for onchain transactions ? 15:47 < spoke0> i just checked lnd and c-lightning no idea what about eclair 15:48 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.67.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:56 < molz> spoke0, when you create a channel, it's an onchain tx and it's a multisig tx 15:56 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:58 < spoke0> molz: yep saw that, but what about multisig to control onchain transactions from only one side of the channel perspective so 3 out of 3, 2 keys on node 1 key opposite node 15:59 < spoke0> lets say i want to have a multisig wallet like a bitcoin multisig wallet, with more then one signatures to commit 16:02 < molz> im not sure what you're asking 16:08 < waxwing> spoke0, there's no such functionality in lnd, either for on-chain coins or for lightning channel creation. 16:09 < waxwing> lightning channels are all based on 2 of 2 multisig, i.e. always 1 key per participant. the lnd on-chain wallet keys are all single sig. 16:10 < molz> waxwing, does he want channel txs to be multisig txs of multisig txs making a chain of multisigs? 16:10 < waxwing> molz, well i think there were 2 questions, the second was whether you could have a channel opened where Alice had 2 keys and Bob had 1, and it would be a 3 of 3 instead of a 2 of 2, i mean such a thing is possible, but not in LN today and not in lnd. 16:12 < molz> ah.. not sure if i would like that for petty money to spend on junks 16:12 < spoke0> thanks, i was thinking that this might be the case, is it actually possible to create something like that, imagine you have a node with channels that hold large amounts of coins, operation would be much safer if multisig is possible 16:13 < spoke0> by multisig i mean both the onchain funding/settling tx and the intermediate state transitions 16:13 < waxwing> it's definitely going to make life harder with more than 2 participants, but sure it's possible. 16:14 < waxwing> i mean people are dreaming up schemes for multiparty channels (not the same thing, quite, as what you're asking, but the same practicality issue there) 16:15 < molz> spoke0, LN multisig is not like regular bitcoin multisig, if i open a channel to buy junks like games, stickers, coffee.. why should i care to have multisigs with so many people 16:15 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:15 < spoke0> because some peope will operate big intermediate channels, they will care 16:16 < spoke0> of course that is not the case for the small wallet that is used to do day to day stuff 16:16 < molz> then they should use other means like bitcoin multisig scheme and you talk about 'onchain', we already have that with bitcoin 16:17 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:17 < molz> 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