--- Day changed Sun Sep 08 2019 00:03 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@193.117.195.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: %Gone to become more spherical%] 01:07 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 01:09 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:14 -!- Giszmo [~leo@2407:7000:9d28:5100:5d26:c4d8:c4c1:6494] has joined #lnd 01:22 -!- melvin_ [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 01:32 -!- Sentineo [~Undefined@unaffiliated/sentineo] has joined #lnd 01:55 -!- Sentineo [~Undefined@unaffiliated/sentineo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 02:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 02:18 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 02:36 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has joined #lnd 02:49 < MaxSan> what is current maximum current channel in satoshi? 03:00 < Veggen> generally still 1/6 bitcoin (0.167 BTC), but I guess not *too* hard to raise limit, I know it's done- 03:00 < Veggen> and in next spec, limit is dropped. 03:04 < MaxSan> ohh, dropped as in lowered or dropped as in wiped completely? 03:04 < MaxSan> so there wont be any at all 03:05 < Veggen> won't be a limit, I believe. 03:05 < Veggen> it's up to channel partners. 03:06 < MaxSan> perfect 03:10 < MaxSan> also, is it possible to mark a channel as private after its created? 03:14 -!- Giszmo [~leo@2407:7000:9d28:5100:5d26:c4d8:c4c1:6494] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16 < MaxSan> bugger.didnt mark output as re-spendable until confirmation eiter... 03:26 < Veggen> MaxSan: nope. 03:26 < Veggen> channel can't be changed to private. currently. 03:32 < MaxSan> il leave it for now then 03:43 < Talkless> Veggen: what's the status/progress of AMP? 03:49 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 03:52 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:44 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 04:52 < Veggen> Talkless: building blocks of it are panning out, one of them is the "Send to Sphinx" that there's quite a bit of work going on about. 04:53 < Talkless> Veggen: so the spec is done? 04:54 < Veggen> well. Not sure about that one :) I am not a hardcore LN dev, and haven't studied the spec about this in detail, but I think most devs have a pretty good idea how it needs to work :) 04:55 < Veggen> there's a few models. Should AMP always be end-to-end, having the routing nodes not know a thing about it (probably the simplest), or should the in-between nodes also know that this is part of an AMP transaction. 04:56 < Veggen> hmm...will AMP work like hodl invoices? 04:57 < Veggen> probably have to. 05:18 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:29 < Talkless> Veggen: hodl invoices..? 05:31 -!- cubancorona [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has joined #lnd 05:34 < Veggen> It's an invoice which is not settled automatically by the software, it's settled only when something (usually a shopkeeper) settles it. 05:36 < Veggen> now, think about it in relation to AMP. A payment request arrives to the destination, but it's not settled immediately. The decision can be held off until all of those HTLCs that makes up the full payment arrives, and the settlement, the one that actually moves money trustlessly, can be sent in the opposite direction for all the smaller HTLCs at the same time. 05:39 < Veggen> and in case one of them doesn't arrive, the destination will send an error the other way before the HTLCs timeout, freeing up the funds again. 05:39 < Veggen> at least, this is my understanding about how AMP has to work on a grand level, but I guess the devil is in the details :) 05:40 < molz> Talkless, https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/2022 05:40 < molz> Talkless, the Lightning devs have their meeting every two weeks in channel #lightning-dev if you would like to know what's going on 05:41 < molz> logs of their meetings: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/ 05:42 < molz> you can also checkout the mailinglists and RFC github repo for discussions 05:45 < molz> mailinglist archives: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/ 06:04 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has joined #lnd 06:05 < Talkless> thanks Veggen molz 06:26 -!- fiddysat [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has joined #lnd 06:27 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24 -!- peleion [~jeff@76.73.148.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 07:45 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 08:04 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:07 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 08:17 < ctrlbreak> Are there any decent loop-in/out services online as of yet? I'd like to test them? 08:25 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: %Gone to become more spherical%] 08:26 < Veggen> ...except for Lightning Labs' own? 08:56 -!- peleion [~jeff@76.73.148.34] has joined #lnd 09:17 < ctrlbreak> Veggen; as in a service that I don't have to run myself? 09:46 < Veggen> oh, well...the loopd is not the loop service, though it interacts with one. You *could* have done the same in the "loop" binary and not had a service, but I guess Lightning Labs wanted to emphasize that the loop itself is a background task that can take time. 09:46 < Veggen> uh, bad explained. You could have done the same in the loop binary, and not had loopd. 10:09 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 10:20 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 10:25 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-142-242.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 < ctrlbreak> Thanks for the feedback... I guess we just aren't there yet. I was more hoping for an online service with easy UX to top up / empty my channels without close/reopen. I'll have to invest some more time myself when I get it. 10:37 -!- treehug88 [~textual@pool-173-56-75-234.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 10:38 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-142-242.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 10:40 < Veggen> ctrlbreak: so....an exchange? that will send you bitcoin over LN? 10:42 < Veggen> ctrlbreak: loop from Lightning Labs' is start of that, there's nothing that prevents all of loop functionality to be embedded in a lightning wallet. We're likely to see those things. 10:42 < Veggen> but functionality will come before good UX. Sorry. That's how it is :) 10:43 < fox2p> Yeah especially with large exchanges come into play 10:43 < fox2p> I foresee wallets integrating directly with liquidity providers for LN such as exchanges 10:43 < fox2p> so channel capacity is essentially `removed` from the user 10:43 < fox2p> user's standpoint 10:48 < Veggen> well, no. 10:49 < Veggen> channel capacity will always be an issue, but moving things between on-chain and channels will become easier/with better UX. 10:49 < fox2p> Right, but the wallet can essentially abstract that 10:50 < fox2p> by handling the loops in and out 10:50 < Veggen> some wallets might even decide to hide it completely, in the background refilling channels at whatever side they need to be refilled. 10:50 < fox2p> so channels always have `ideal` capacity 10:50 < Veggen> ...so yes. 10:50 < fox2p> exactly 10:50 < Veggen> it can be abstracted away, but this has a cost. On-chain fees etc. 10:50 < fox2p> Yup 10:50 < Veggen> And noone will do that for free, either. 10:51 < fox2p> yeah this will most likely be a service that a provider will give users 11:41 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 12:25 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:52 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:10 -!- cubancorona [cubancoron@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cubancorona] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: eamonnw 13:12 -!- Netsplit over, joins: eamonnw 13:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: fox2p 13:17 -!- Netsplit over, joins: fox2p 13:18 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: so 13:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: so 14:18 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 14:27 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 14:48 < ctrlbreak> I found fixedfloat.com 14:49 < ctrlbreak> submarineswaps.org 14:49 < ctrlbreak> haven't had luck with either as of yet however. 14:53 -!- EvaristeGalois [~Surd@unaffiliated/evaristegalois] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@ip147-45.real-net.sk] has joined #lnd 15:33 -!- Pioklo_ [~Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has joined #lnd 15:37 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@ip147-45.real-net.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:45 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:49 -!- Pioklo_ [~Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 16:31 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 17:34 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@client-172-009.guest.otago.ac.nz] has joined #lnd 18:34 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: %Gone to become more spherical%] 18:35 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.90.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:36 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@92.116.113.158] has joined #lnd 18:41 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 19:00 -!- designwish [~designwis@51.ip-51-68-136.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:02 -!- designwish [~designwis@51.ip-51-68-136.eu] has joined #lnd 19:03 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 19:22 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.78.231] has joined #lnd 19:25 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@92.116.113.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:26 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 19:36 -!- fox2p_ [~fox2p@185.212.170.51] has joined #lnd 19:37 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@31.7.59.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:05 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 21:09 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:35 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@client-172-009.guest.otago.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:58 -!- Kostenko [~Kostenko@2001:8a0:728c:7300:5117:6e14:a99e:3d81] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:06 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@101.98.42.91] has joined #lnd 22:13 -!- Kostenko [~Kostenko@2001:8a0:7282:eb00:42a0:44be:569d:c103] has joined #lnd 22:32 -!- Giszmo [~leo@2407:7000:9d28:5100:5d26:c4d8:c4c1:6494] has joined #lnd 22:39 -!- Sentineo [~Undefined@unaffiliated/sentineo] has joined #lnd 23:03 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 23:03 -!- EvaristeGalois [~Surd@unaffiliated/evaristegalois] has joined #lnd 23:20 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd