--- Day changed Thu Jun 18 2020 00:11 -!- davterra_ [~davterra@107.182.239.139] has joined #lnd 00:13 -!- davterra [~davterra@107.182.239.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:42 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:43 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 00:50 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:51 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 01:00 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has joined #lnd 01:12 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:28 -!- slivera [~slivera@103.231.88.10] has joined #lnd 01:30 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 01:31 -!- yzernik_ [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15 < tangibleat> roasbeef: I see, thanks. Also, two days ago my node rejected a channel update (and force closed afterwards), could it have been that fee issue? 02:16 < tangibleat> 2020-06-15 13:35:29.740 [ERR] HSWC: ChannelLink(): failing link: ChannelPoint(xxx): unable to accept new commitment: rejected commitment: commit_height=883, invalid_commit_sig=, commit_tx=, sig_hash= with error: invalid commitment 02:30 -!- Eagle[TM] [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:59 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 03:17 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 03:47 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has joined #lnd 03:54 -!- jbg [uid449662@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmkckanbidfcrseb] has joined #lnd 05:21 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:22 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:24 -!- jonatack [~jon@184.75.221.35] has joined #lnd 06:39 -!- slivera [~slivera@103.231.88.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14 -!- davterra__ [~davterra@209.95.56.84] has joined #lnd 07:16 -!- davterra_ [~davterra@107.182.239.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19 -!- davterra__ [~davterra@209.95.56.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:13 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:16 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 08:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 08:23 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd 08:23 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:24 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 08:24 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:25 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 08:25 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:29 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:30 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 09:30 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd 09:41 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has joined #lnd 09:42 -!- leinlawun[m] [leinlawunm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ocuqwjlclssyzsfu] has joined #lnd 10:11 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 10:27 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 10:44 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:57 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has joined #lnd 11:17 -!- jonatack [~jon@184.75.221.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:19 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.170.249.11] has joined #lnd 11:22 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:55 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a84:fb44:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:57 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a85:8ab8:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #lnd 12:02 -!- k3tan [~pi@unaffiliated/k3tan] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:31 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:34 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 13:17 -!- downystreet [6c3b00a0@108.59.0.160] has joined #lnd 13:18 < downystreet> who's in charge of this operation? 13:18 < downystreet> I'm not getting much help from roasbeef in the github issues place and hes not even asking me for logs. 13:18 < mol_> what do you mean downystreet ? 13:19 < downystreet> After multiple payments are completed and the local balance gets shifted to the remote balance through a particular node, a route is unable to be found through the other connected nodes with local balance that meets requirements. TEMPORARY CHANNEL FAILURE @ 1 means that the first hop in the chain in my case 1ML.com node ALPHA does not have properly 13:19 < downystreet> balanced channels and cannot route a payment of $10 or $20 to another node on the network. Using C-Otto/rebalance-lnd can help rebalance but it also has problems finding a suitable route with more than 30000 sat. 13:19 <@roasbeef> downystreet: I've explained it to you 13:19 <@roasbeef> rebalancing only shifts around the distribution of your channels 13:19 < downystreet> thats not viable for the longevity of lnd 13:19 <@roasbeef> it doesn't affect how much you send send or recv 13:19 < downystreet> YES 13:19 < downystreet> IT DOES 13:19 <@roasbeef> when yuo send out more, you can recv less 13:19 < downystreet> that is what im telling you 13:20 -!- cryptoso- [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lnd 13:20 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20 < downystreet> when my local balance gets shifted to remote from multiple payments i am no longer able to make payments 13:20 < downystreet> that is exactly what I am telling you 13:21 <@roasbeef> downystreet: yes that's how channels work 13:21 <@roasbeef> when you send out, you give the other party more inbound to recv with, which means you can send out less thru that particular channel 13:21 < mol_> :D 13:21 < downystreet> yes, so how is that viable long term if i need to make 100 payments of $20? 13:21 <@roasbeef> rebalancing just moves around the funds between your own channels 13:22 <@roasbeef> also i'd sak if you're using mpp or not with your payments (depends on the lnd version) 13:22 <@roasbeef> not sure what you mean 13:22 <@roasbeef> it's like a pre paid debit card 13:22 <@roasbeef> you depleated the balance, but you can reload funds to it 13:22 <@roasbeef> you can reload funds using something like Loop In 13:22 < downystreet> Look man I don't think you are understanding what I'm telling you. 13:23 < downystreet> I have multiple channels for outbound 13:23 < downystreet> 2 $50 channels 13:23 < downystreet> 1 $23 channel 13:23 < downystreet> and 7 $10 channels 13:23 < downystreet> I have $20 right now in my lnd wallet 13:23 < downystreet> When I try to purchase a $10 giftcard it cannot find a route to the node 13:23 < downystreet> after I've bout several 13:24 <@roasbeef> see my question above about mpp, are you using it? 13:24 < downystreet> what is mpp? 13:24 <@roasbeef> if you don't have $10 in a _single_ channel available to send, then it won't work w/o mpp 13:24 <@roasbeef> it splits up payments over several channels 13:24 < downystreet> how do i use it 13:24 <@roasbeef> as otherwise you can only send out the largest available balance you have for a given channel 13:24 < downystreet> that is what i need 13:24 <@roasbeef> you need to be using the latest version of lnd 13:24 <@roasbeef> there's a new flag if you're using the cli 13:24 < downystreet> i am 13:25 < downystreet> i just downloaded it a few days ago 13:25 < downystreet> is this it? version 0.10.99-beta 13:25 <@roasbeef> ok yeh then you have it 13:25 < downystreet> so how do i use it ? 13:25 <@roasbeef> set --max_parts to somethign greater than 1 13:25 <@roasbeef> that controls how many splits it'll try 13:26 < downystreet> where do i set this? 13:26 < downystreet> the ./lncli? 13:26 <@roasbeef> there's a new mode also that'll show you the attempts 13:26 <@roasbeef> so like lncli payinvoice --max_parts=10 13:26 < downystreet> ok, ill try that 13:26 <@roasbeef> if you do --inflight_updates to show you the attempts it's trying 13:27 < downystreet> alright 13:27 <@roasbeef> w/o this what matters is the _distribution_ of funds in your channels 13:27 <@roasbeef> if you have $10, but it's split across 10 channels, then you can only send the largest of those fragments w/o mpp 13:27 <@roasbeef> similar goes for the receiver 13:28 <@roasbeef> if they don't have a special thign set in their invoice, then that means they can only recv over a single channel 13:29 <@roasbeef> oh also mpp stands for: multi-path payments 13:30 < downystreet> says -max_parts flag provided but not defined, I tried it with and without = 13:30 <@roasbeef> you might need to update your lncli version 13:31 < downystreet> i did a git pull, do I need to restart lnd? 13:32 < downystreet> still says the same thing 13:32 < downystreet> without lnd restart 13:36 < downystreet> I restarted lnd and same thing 13:41 < downystreet> thats what im doing 13:42 < downystreet> also, i dont see that in the help page 13:42 < downystreet> any of these commands you are telling me 13:43 < downystreet> ./lncli help | grep max_parts inflight, returns nothing 13:48 < downystreet> also I'm using the c-otto/rebalance-lnd and its having the same problem. I was sending 30000 sats at first and then as I do the same command again it takes longer and long to find a route until eventually when used enough it fails from timeout and I have to decrease the amount of sats I'm using in order for it to find a route 13:49 < downystreet> its the same concept as paying for gift cards multiple times as the balance of the channel shifts to the remote balance it makes it impossible to pay for anything unless you open up new channels 13:49 < downystreet> which is basically what you were saying by telling me to use the lightning loop to up my funds. 13:51 < downystreet> how is this viable for the long term, if you're saying that every time you deplete your local balance by purchasing goods and shifting it to the remote balance and it is unusable 13:51 < downystreet> you have to then close out your channel which takes a huge fee 13:51 < downystreet> and open a new channel or just leave your channel open? and open a new channel 13:51 < downystreet> that doesn't make much sense 13:51 < downystreet> and especially to the common folk 13:52 < downystreet> and thats jsut if someone opens one channel. in my case I have multiple channels open, about 12, and it can't find a route because the local balance is too small 13:53 < downystreet> when the overall value of my outbound channels is close to $200 13:54 < downystreet> I've been running and experimenting with lnd and c-lightning now for a few months and I came up with a nickname for it. Instead of calling the lightning network, I call it the lose money network. 13:54 < downystreet> because every time you have to close out a channel you lose money 13:55 < downystreet> the LMN 13:57 < downystreet> take for example the rebalancer, I started out being able to rebalance 30000 sats at a time and now im down to 1000 and its getting harder and harder for it to find routes at 1000 sats so soon i will have to decrease to 500 or less sats in order for it to find a suitable route. its the same concept as what im telling you with my gift card 13:57 < downystreet> purchases, as the channel balances across the network get set a certain way it makes it to where you can't send money anymore 13:59 < downystreet> because the balances are skewed to one side and I would assume that a merchant is only receiving money out so the question is how do you get the channels to rebalance 14:00 < downystreet> everyone running a node isn't going to take the time and skew through the code of c-ottom and change certain parts of the code to get it to work and then sit there an rebalance their channels 1000 sats at a time 14:00 < downystreet> you may need to blow this thing up and start over 14:00 < downystreet> and make something like an auto rebalancer 14:01 < downystreet> to make sure the channels are properly balanced because relying on individuals to do this themselves is asking for a nightmare 14:02 < downystreet> also from roasbeef himself told me that when it said TEMPORARY FAILURE @ 1, that means that the first hop to 1ml.com node ALPHA did not have its channels properly balanced that is a huge problem 14:03 < downystreet> every first hop that was temporary failure was to 1ml.com node ALPHA which is the main lnd directory node 14:03 < downystreet> if they don't balance their channels, I know the majority of the lnd network hasn't balanced their channels 14:04 < downystreet> I had the local balance capacity to send payment through 1ml.com node ALPHA and yet 1ml.com node ALPHA could not route my payment to the merchant 14:04 < downystreet> that is a huge problem 14:05 < downystreet> and then you guys sit here and say nothing and dont even ask for logs 14:05 < downystreet> what kind of operation are you running here? 14:05 < downystreet> you must already know this 14:05 < downystreet> that this is doomed to failure 14:14 -!- k3tan [~pi@unaffiliated/k3tan] has joined #lnd 14:17 < downystreet> that is unless you have alot of money and can afford to lose money to use the lightning network when you close your channels 14:18 < downystreet> come on folks use the lightning network, all you have to do is open a channel that takes a few dollars from you when you close it so you can make a bitcoin payment 14:18 < downystreet> go get yourself some bitcoin at the atm that takes a 20% fee folks. step right up here comes the bitcoin train 14:19 < downystreet> come on folks use the lightning network, all you have to do is be a computer genius and be willing to open up a channel so you can send not unlimited but just a few payments before you have to close the channel and lose a few dollars 14:20 < downystreet> its real simple folks jsut put your money right in there 14:22 < downystreet> (toot toot) Do you hear that folks? That sounds like the bitcoin train is headed our way. Just send some more money to your lightning wallet folks. And we'll make sure you can send at least as much as you put in and we only take a few dollars when you close out. it's real simple folks 14:24 < downystreet> (toot too) Here comes the bitcoin trains folks. Just put some more money in your lightning wallets and we'll make sure you can only send a few transactions before you have to close out your channel and open a new one for a nominal fee. (toot toot) 14:49 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:49 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 15:10 < downystreet> I'm now down to sending 500 sats in the rebalancer and its starting to have trouble finding routes 15:29 < downystreet> (toot toot) Here comes bitcoin 40k. Do you hear it folks? ( tooot tooot) 15:53 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@2600:1700:dc40:3dd0:3896:e8f8:9d4d:d416] has joined #lnd 16:00 -!- jpe_ [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:16 -!- dethos [~dethos@83-223-170-24.cpe.netmadeira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@26.57.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lnd 16:29 -!- downystreet [6c3b00a0@108.59.0.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39 -!- slivera [~slivera@103.231.88.10] has joined #lnd 16:41 -!- jpe [~jp@i59F44EBA.versanet.de] has joined #lnd 16:41 <@roasbeef> they left, but it's a flag on payinvoice 17:09 -!- fjlksdjfoij [1882832e@unaffiliated/fjlksdjfoij] has joined #lnd 17:14 -!- jpe [~jp@i59F44EBA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:45 -!- fjlksdjfoij [1882832e@unaffiliated/fjlksdjfoij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54 -!- cryptoso- [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lnd 18:28 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 19:28 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@26.57.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@26.57.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lnd 20:13 -!- Eagle[TM] [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 20:14 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15 < jbg> buy guys, guys 20:15 < jbg> what kind of operation are you running here? :D 20:15 < jbg> *but 20:16 < jbg> that was an entertaining rant from downystreet 20:46 -!- yzernik_ [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 20:47 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@2600:1700:dc40:3dd0:3896:e8f8:9d4d:d416] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27 -!- jpe [~jp@88.130.222.251] has joined #lnd 23:14 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.166.220.215] has joined #lnd 23:18 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.170.249.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:33 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@2600:1700:dc40:3dd0:3896:e8f8:9d4d:d416] has joined #lnd 23:35 -!- yzernik_ [~yzernik@75-25-138-252.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]