--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 00:00:25 2020
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03:18 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
03:18 < deb0rah> binance 0.01809300 [+13.08%] | bittrex 0.01827887 [+14.45%] | southxchange 0.01799941 [+12.68%] | livecoin 0.01769401 [+12.03%] | hitbtc 0.01783300 [+11.91%] | graviex 0.01952310 [+19.66%] | poloniex 0.01794181 [+12.14%] | kraken 0.01804000 [+13.03%] |
03:18 < gmaxwell> .price bsv btc
03:18 < deb0rah> bittrex 0.01075023 [+8.51%] | hitbtc 0.01071700 [+8.29%] | southxchange 0.01083850 [+8.58%] |
03:18 < gmaxwell> impressive
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03:20 < Veggen> gmaxwell: NOw that they have activated Egon_1, will the continue the pump?
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04:40 < Emcy> activate ze pomp
04:41 < Emcy> get egon on ze line
04:41 < queip> !tlast
04:41 <@gribble> 19203.2
04:41 < queip> kurwa mać.
04:44 < Emcy> >Don’t be mistaken, all those so called “Bitcoin Maximalist” are buying Bitcoin Cash 💵 on the side.
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05:20 < lnd-bot> [lnd] halseth opened pull request #4801: [logging] add more logging for failed payment shards (master...router-lifecycle-logs) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4801
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05:32 < Emcy> ;;tlast
05:32 <@gribble> 19310.91
05:32 < Emcy> sweaty
05:42 < buZz> oh gee
05:42 < buZz> .price bch btc
05:42 < deb0rah> binance 0.01806300 [+12.88%] | bittrex 0.01803373 [+12.16%] | southxchange 0.01762404 [+10.32%] | livecoin 0.01697282 [+7.00%] | hitbtc 0.01778800 [+11.46%] | bleutrade 0.01732747 [+25.07%] | graviex 0.01952310 [+19.66%] | poloniex 0.01754190 [+9.17%] | kraken 0.01801000 [+12.35%] |
05:42 < buZz> .price btc usd
05:42 < deb0rah> graviex 18000.00010000 [-2.70%] | bitstamp 19240.64 [+3.39%] | gdax 19231.03 [+3.34%] | bittrex 19209.67000000 [+3.23%] | hitbtc 19204.12000000 [+3.27%] | livecoin 18700.00000000 [+2.07%] | bisq 11647.34520000 [-3.78%] | kraken 19222.10000 [+3.37%] | bitfinex 19199.00000000 [+3.40%] | southxchange
05:42 < deb0rah> ..18523.07030100 [-1.03%] |
05:43 < buZz> guess they miss the 0.02 level :P
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05:50 < queip> bcashers 2018 YOU NEED TO HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME
05:50 < queip> bcashers 2020 haha silly bitcoiners "numers go up"
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06:07 < Emcy> rbtc today https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.VLke4nu9TZcaRwslzaZTAwHaIW
06:07 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (474 x 534) ]
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06:08 < buZz> lol
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07:02 < queip> how do you bring blockchain to mostly offline wallet?   and how do you save TX from wallet into a file to be moved to online wallet?
07:05 < Emcy> what
07:06 < belcher> queip theres discussion here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage
07:06 < Entitlement> belcher - [ Cold storage - Bitcoin Wiki ]
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07:06 < belcher> usb sticks, qr codes, transcribing by hand are listed there
07:07 < belcher> obviously the last one doesnt seem very practical
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07:08 < queip> if possible I would like the offline node to do full validation/sync. it is prunned.          so I need some --import-blocks-from-this-dir-instead-from-internet
07:08 < queip> import&validate (and calculate utxo)
07:08 < queip> both wallets are bitcoin core.  the online one is not prunned obviously, offline is prunned
07:08 < belcher> offline nodes cant sync, you need some connection to the outside world
07:09 < queip> belcher: you can bring it blocks over usb or (more secure I  guess) DVDs/BRs
07:09 < belcher> btw, hashrate seems to be dropping
07:09 < belcher> the last 6 blocks had an average interval of 21m instead of 10m
07:10 < rabidus> :D
07:10 < queip> why would that be O_o
07:10 < rabidus> hint: it's not
07:12 < queip> grubles: can bitcoind read additional files as source of blocks (untrusted - to be verified)? I assume satelite receiving uses something like that too
07:37 < belcher> 6 block interval average back down to 10m
07:37 < belcher> looks like the network just got unlucky
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08:10 < queip> price is too damn high rn. Can we all take to twitter, and like, write we are all now convinced CSW actually is satoshi and we will move 80% into BSV position?  too birds with one stone
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08:51 < grubles> queip: https://github.com/Blockstream/bitcoinsatellite/wiki#satellite-reception
08:51 < Entitlement> grubles - [ Home · Blockstream/bitcoinsatellite Wiki · GitHub ]
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09:16 < grubles> there's a ton of content there actually
09:16 < grubles> it's great
09:19 < Emcy> gmaxwell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBaCc5VUHS8
09:20 < gmaxwell> Emcy: hi!
09:20 < Emcy> hi
09:20 < gmaxwell> people on rbtc are aggitating for blockchair to put up some banner against taproot.
09:21 < Emcy> lol
09:21 < Emcy> maybe they will
09:21 < queip> cool trick regarding backup, and possibly regarding running bitcoin on usb harddrives and such (though still this is a hard task) : option -integrity=hmac-sha256   to   cryptsetup luksFormat
09:22 < queip> if you divide usb storage in hald, do this twice and them raid mirror on top, it might be actually quite secure against data damage
09:23 < gmaxwell> Emcy: if they do I wonder if we'll see an agressive move by bitcoin sites to drop blockchair.
09:24 < Emcy> bitcoiners always seem to polite to really stick the boot in
09:25 < Emcy> sometimes you got to crack some knuckles and crack some heads, you know
09:26 < gmaxwell> So! wright's attempt to get summary judgement in the case against McCormack failed.
09:28 < queip> CSW should get a summary thing himself, and not just judgement
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09:32 < Emcy> gmaxwell but mccormack is still boned right
09:33 < Emcy> hes out of money
09:34 < queip> mby btcc community chips in, and he would pay back if he wins enough back
09:35 < queip> s/btcc/btc
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09:44 < grubles> queip: wouldn't that just kill your flash drive with IO
09:46 < gmaxwell> Emcy: probably.
09:46 < gmaxwell> Emcy: but it seems like the judge isn't going to let him just get bent over purely due to that.
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09:47 < Emcy> well thats terribly nice of him
09:47 < Emcy> to mandate vaseline like that
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09:48 < Emcy> i could see mccormack becoming the poster child for the next libel reform push, whenever that happens
09:49 < Emcy> it will probably be sometime after bsv and craig explodes so it will be a matter of record then that he was a disgusting scammer pos during the whole thing
10:06 < queip> grubles: will anyway, but before it dies I at least know it dies ;)
10:06 < queip> (and for node it must be real ssd, or hdd)
10:12 < Emcy> bitcoin is running at about 15 thousand dollars of fees per block atm
10:12 < Emcy> thats good
10:13 < nkuttler> i read somewhere that people pay like 20% premium for freshly mined coins..
10:13 < Emcy> perhaps
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10:51 < midnight> .price bsv btc
10:51 < deb0rah> bittrex 0.01086376 [+4.51%] | hitbtc 0.01086300 [+3.22%] | southxchange 0.01103344 [+1.51%] |
10:51 < midnight> lol
10:51 < midnight> *BARELY HOLDING ON*
10:51 < midnight> .price bch btc
10:51 < deb0rah> binance 0.01769300 [+3.64%] | bittrex 0.01775971 [+3.89%] | southxchange 0.01791881 [+4.27%] | livecoin 0.01757447 [+5.88%] | hitbtc 0.01756800 [+4.29%] | bleutrade 0.01732747 [+25.07%] | graviex 0.01952310 [+21.54%] | poloniex 0.01770000 [+3.42%] | kraken 0.01773000 [+10.61%] |
10:51 < midnight> har har
11:01 < belcher> over the last 36 blocks (~6 hours) more than 10% of miner income came from fees
11:04 < midnight> Holy crap, porter's a fireball https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL6YHPqnQy4
11:04 < midnight> good for you, lady, kick some ass lol
11:12 < Emcy> she just wants to grill
11:12 < Emcy> idk how to work out the paypay loan APR but i know that shit is always in the thousands of %
11:13 < midnight> dunno how it's not illegal but anyway
11:13 < Emcy> also, its not my job to help and entire country understand and work it out, let alone do it myself
11:13 < midnight> lol
11:14 < Emcy> midnight i dont think it should be illegal, that would just push people to the loan sharks
11:14 < midnight> There's always something horribly wrong with situations like that. Like.. why not just work it out? Why sit there with this smug little fucking grin on her face pretending she's playing 3d chess with Spock by "not to play"?
11:14 < nkuttler> midnight: did you see? lukas submitted patches to lkml
11:14 < midnight> Emcy: those rates are extortionate.
11:15 < midnight> Emcy: The payday loans places won't go anywhere if the rates were mandated to be smaller. They make huge cash turning people into legal slaves.
11:15 < Emcy> yes but they wont break your face for not paying up in 2 weeks
11:15 < midnight> Emcy: no, they do what is sometimes worse: they bring the entire weight of the legal collections process to bear on you.
11:15 < Emcy> but people should be aware that if they need payday loans because theyre poor, payday loans are one of the things that is keeping them poor
11:16 < midnight> Emcy: that's not how poor people plan their week. :(
11:16 < Emcy> do you get povo porn TV over on the mainland?
11:17 < midnight> nkuttler: I did see how he was planning on it, yeah. :) He's really making a go of supporting his laptop. I've never quite seen anything so vigourous.
11:17 < midnight> What's povo porn tv?
11:17 < Emcy> we have these daytime tv shows that are basically baliffs going around fucking people up for not paying
11:18 < Emcy> its like half shouting and half weeping
11:18 < Emcy> its poverty porn. as a class based society its quite popular
11:18 < midnight> With a loan shark, you have the legal system that you *theoretically could* rely on to protect you.
11:18 < midnight> With payday loans you have nothing.
11:19 < midnight> nkuttler: I love how he wanted to make sure kicad could be used on the system he used it to design.
11:19 < midnight> nkuttler: You know he's an Amiga fan from a billion years ago?
11:20 < nkuttler> midnight: haha, yeah, his feed is full of it
11:20 < midnight> nkuttler: It's amazing. People like that are definitely red button..
11:20 < nkuttler> i should send him the pic of amiga game manuals i have..
11:20 < midnight> nkuttler: I have some c64 manuals and game instruction books somewhere.
11:21 < nkuttler> nice!
11:21 < nkuttler> the c64 manual was awesome
11:22 < midnight> I have the programmer's reference manual too
11:22 < midnight> The holy bible of c64 programming which I've yet to really see the equal of.
11:22 < nkuttler> hm, not sure i had that one. i think the basic manual had all the memory segments laid out and such?
11:23 < midnight> almost the whole thing, guts, electronics, a fold-out schematic, chip descriptions, the works.
11:23 < midnight> iirc..
11:23 < midnight> actully I haven't looked at it in like 30 years.
11:24 < nkuttler> why would you.. unless you're writing an emulator i guess
11:24 < nkuttler> though the demoscene might still use some c64s i imagine
11:28 < midnight> Demoscene alive and well! ha ha
11:29 < midnight> They're doing fullscreen, cartridge-mediated movie playing on it.
11:29 < Emcy> dithering is magic
11:31 < Emcy> midnight dev explains how they put FMV on a mega drive cartridge back in the day https://youtu.be/c-aQvP7CUAI
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11:32 < midnight> nkuttler: Did I share the link to the macross video playing on a c64?  https://twitter.com/sensasonic/status/1206893021461143552
11:34 < nkuttler> haha. 32M is kind of cheating
11:34 < nkuttler> but impressive that you can pipe that much through the system
11:35 < queip> we need a demoscene for bean eater's VGA card
11:35 < midnight> Emcy: nice
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11:36 < midnight> There's this other kid who made a raw demo that manually outputs a VGA signal, music via raw output, and lives on.. like a PIC chip or something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNCqrylNY-0
11:37 < midnight> oh, atmega.  my mistake.
11:37 < Emcy> wait that was the wrong video
11:37 < midnight> should've known an atmel would be behind the timing
11:37 < Emcy> https://youtu.be/IehwV2K60r8 the actual intro fmv
11:40 < midnight> I love that atmel timing is so precise it can be used to break other chips through.. timing attacks. <3 them norwegians sure did neat stuff
11:46 < midnight> That LFT gets standing ovations everytime he does anything.
11:46 < midnight> *lft guy
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11:49 < lnd-bot> [lnd] halseth merged pull request #4801: [logging] add more logging for failed payment shards (master...router-lifecycle-logs) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4801
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11:49 < lnd-bot> [lnd] halseth pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/7f9f4a7c8d46...ef503bf14e66
11:49 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 4d645ef Johan T. Halseth: htlcswitch: add debug logs for fetching network result
11:49 < lnd-bot> lnd/master f8493a7 Johan T. Halseth: routing: define errShardHandlerExiting
11:49 < lnd-bot> lnd/master df049ad Johan T. Halseth: routing: promote shard logs on resume and terminal failure to Info
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12:13 < Emcy> >Julian's been told that 49 prisoners and 15 staff on his house block (or wing) have tested positive for COVID after all prisoners on the house block were tested last week.
12:14 < Emcy> they know he has a chronic lung problem
12:14 < Emcy> just take him out and shoot him you cowards
12:15 < queip> he's in USA now?
12:18 < Emcy> belmarsh
12:23 < queip> dunno why didn't Trump taken him out. Same as with chance to pass stronger freedoms for press (and break up fake social platforms), crypto, guns etc
12:23 < queip> taken him out of UK, and then pardon him in USA, for example
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13:44 < queip> .price bch btc
13:44 < deb0rah> binance 0.01809600 [+5.57%] | bittrex 0.01816308 [+6.35%] | southxchange 0.01829970 [+6.49%] | livecoin 0.01798066 [+6.29%] | hitbtc 0.01798300 [+5.68%] | bleutrade 0.01732747 [+25.07%] | graviex 0.01750425 [-0.35%] | poloniex 0.01805714 [+5.35%] | kraken 0.01816000 [+7.20%] |
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14:06 < queip> funny day today in bitcoin. So guy joins and is like "hi fellow bitcoiners, but how about testing PoS? what if they, I mean us, see how it works on ETH 2.0 next week"
14:07 < queip> <beacon> you just have to wait and observe other big coins that are doing it <beacon> I mean we, sorry
14:07 < queip> lols.
14:17 < belcher> you shouldve called the ops so we can ban those altcoiners
14:17 < queip> it was kind of general talk this time, I just show it coz that part seems funny :)
14:18 < queip> what was that paper about PoS flaws btw? need to bookmark such things
14:21 < belcher> maybe https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
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14:28 < waxwing> i was looking at that yesterday and it seemed like section 6.4 of https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf was an updated version, but andytoshi could obviously say
14:29 < andytoshi> hmm i think pos.pdf is the updated version, which should link to the original which is called old_pos.pdf or something
14:29 < andytoshi> and the blurb in alts.pdf is something in between
14:34 < andytoshi> iirc i started alts.pdf first, then spun out the PoS stuff into its own doc, because i had some hope of finishing that (i could never find the energy to keep up with alts ... even here i can't keep up with all the forks :))
14:35 < andytoshi> and then a year later i tried to rewrite the PoS stuff because people complained about the lack of rigor, but tbh i think the result was just less snarky and less fun
14:37 < andytoshi> there isn't really a rigorous argument that PoS doesn't work because it boils down to incentives and human nature ... but i think the message has sunk in because PoS people now seem to have a really fundamentally broken worldview now
14:37 < andytoshi> and it didn't used to be so fundamental
14:38 < andytoshi> i was in a conversation with some of them a couple years ago, and i suggested that PoS-consensus was like the consensus on the text of the bible defined by 16th-century priests who held a monopoly on literacy
14:38 < andytoshi> i.e. sure everyone agrees on it, but they don't agree with what was believed a generation ago and there's no way in principle to verify this either way
14:39 < andytoshi> and the response was "yes! exactly!" followed by this bizarre ramble about how nobody cares what the bible *used* to say because that's not what christianity is about
14:40 < queip> if my unspent output is there then I kind of care.  not sure how directly it ties to coins
14:41 < queip> so what is their world view on human nature?
14:41 < andytoshi> you should care about whether the coins you're transacting with came from an honest series of economic interactions
14:41 < andytoshi> or whether the fed printed them yesterday
14:41 < andytoshi> and just passed them into circulation
14:41 < andytoshi> queip: their world view is that there is no truth but the zeitgeist
14:42 < queip> then I'm confused, do they say that it doesn't matter how my unspent coins come into existance?
14:42 < andytoshi> and obviously PoS works perfectly fine in that model
14:42 < andytoshi> queip: yes. as long as your friends agree with you about how they came into existence
14:42 < queip> lol
14:42 < andytoshi> there is no necessary truth beyond that
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14:47 < gmaxwell> "Coinbase Pro disables margin trading"
14:48 < gmaxwell> god knows how they thought that was legal in the first place.
14:50 < andytoshi> lol "poloniex was doing it first"
14:52 < gmaxwell> I guess they'll just be back to craming extremely sketchy ICOs at customers as a way of keeping the money firehose running.
14:53 < andytoshi> there they could at least argue that they shouldn't be liable for 100% of the losses
14:53 < andytoshi> since the ICO creators also had some culpability
14:53 < queip> friends called today "so should I go into ripple then"
14:54 < queip> I guess streets sees it's crypto season but many think they missed the train (again)
14:56 < gmaxwell> grubles: jochen finally figured out how to turn off the mempool limit on his eth node: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#2,24h
14:56 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ Johoe's Bitcoin Mempool Size Statistics ]
14:57 < grubles> could coinbase turning off margin trading be due to a lack of liquidity?
14:57 < grubles> gmaxwell: i had no idea he had ETH on there
14:58 < gmaxwell> grubles: they say it's because the CFTC said no. Which is really unsurprising, nothing remotely as risky as the coinbase margin stuff is generally available to non-accredited investors.
14:59 < gmaxwell> grubles: graph seems to show that the ethereum node software is incompetent, mining the wrong transactions and hurting the profits of miners.
15:00 < gmaxwell> as you can see that basically all transactions seem to be mined that fit in the default mempool limit without regard to their feerate.
15:00 < gmaxwell> presumably it's mining stuff first come first serve.
15:00 < grubles> his node has some catching up to do. etherscan's node is at 137k txs.
15:00 < gmaxwell> he may not have it on a fast enough computer...
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15:00 < gmaxwell> my understanding is that every block it has to revalidate every mempooled txn.
15:03 < grubles> or there just aren't many nodes
15:04 < grubles> last time i tried to sync a geth node it was hanging on for dear life to the one peer it got connected to
15:05 < grubles> i wonder what the monthly blockchain growth is for ethereum and what percentage it is of the new comcast data cap
15:07 < grubles> it's like 90 GB for a geth node
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16:01 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, how does it even work, you cant evaluate whether a transaction is 'valid' until it's in a block
16:01 < phantomcircuit> that would seem to significantly complicate... everything
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16:20 < kanzure> phantomcircuit: it's a *property* that ethereum has https://gist.github.com/karalabe/e1891c8a99fdc16c4e60d9713c35401f#gistcomment-3524688
16:20 < Entitlement> kanzure - [ Geth v1.9.17 Post Mortem · GitHub ]
16:21 < kanzure> and see https://gist.github.com/karalabe/e1891c8a99fdc16c4e60d9713c35401f#gistcomment-3525497
16:21 < Entitlement> kanzure - [ Geth v1.9.17 Post Mortem · GitHub ]
16:24 < waxwing> thanks for the link to that thread kanzure it does look rather interesting, if, a little involved.
16:27 < grubles> weird that the ethereum.org blog refers to the fork as a sidechain
16:29 < waxwing> which fork? this recent unintended one?
16:29 < grubles> yeah
16:29 < waxwing> yeah that's .. creative
16:29 < grubles> https://blog.ethereum.org/2020/11/12/geth_security_release/
16:29 < Entitlement> grubles - [ Geth security release | Ethereum Foundation Blog ]
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16:35 < phantomcircuit> grubles, all of their language is misdirection
16:35 < phantomcircuit> words dont have definitions to them
16:38 < kanzure> in high school i remember getting upset when teachers told me words were defined by consensus, it just seemed dumb
16:39 < kanzure> who's consensus? why not just use a dictionary and say you're using that one?
16:39 < waxwing> language is proof of stake though, it's true :)
16:40 < queip> hieroglyphs on top of pyramids are more PoW ;)
16:41 < grubles> i asked karalabe on twitter. not holding my breath for a reply though.
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18:14 < queip> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/24/scotland-becomes-first-nation-to-provide-free-period-products-for-all
18:14 < Entitlement> queip - [ Scotland becomes first nation to provide free period products for all | Scotland... ]
18:15 < queip> certainly it will work this time
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20:03 < andytoshi> phantomcircuit: eth blocks can have invalid transactions in them
20:03 < andytoshi> they lose all their gas and otherwise have no effect
20:04 < Emcy> weird
20:04 < Emcy> ;;tlast
20:04 <@gribble> 18840.55
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20:30 < phantomcircuit> andytoshi, that's bizarre
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22:27 <@midnight> chmod: try now
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23:11 < Emcy> scotland made tampons free huh
23:11 < Emcy> im sensing a pretty huge arbitrage opportunity here
23:12 < Emcy> all i have to do is identify as a female
23:14 < gmaxwell> step 1) obtain tampons step 2) ??? step 3) profit!
23:15 < Emcy> there are worse business plans
23:15 < Emcy> scotland though damn, whos gonna pay for that?
23:16 < Emcy> VAT exempt sure, they always should have been tax free, but just completely free?
23:18 < gmaxwell> It's probably not terribly expensive relative to other services provided to the public.
23:18 < Emcy> i guess the retail markup is pretty huge
23:20 < Emcy> they want so badly to be and be seen as a scandinavian country now, maybe they dont realise they dont have a scandinavian economy...
23:20 < Emcy> i dont think you can fund a country on iron brew and buckfast sales
23:22 < Emcy> i guess they could probably extort england for £££ over the Clyde naval base though, if they reneged on not supporting the nuke fleet in the event of independence
23:22 < Emcy> itll upset the hippies but the SNP probably doesnt care
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 25 00:00:26 2020