--- Log opened Wed Dec 02 00:00:33 2020 00:02 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 00:02 < pipirella> fun challenge for thw whole family during holidays 00:06 < nkuttler> i bootstrapped gcc in the 90s on solaris, it was very easy 00:11 -!- cameron[m] [cameronots@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fwporzuazjvgeoxc] has left #lnd ["User left"] 00:18 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@dynamic-046-114-006-130.46.114.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34 < Veggen> my december fun is https://adventofcode.com/ - fun way to have some non-important programming tasks for example to get started looking at a new language. 00:34 < Entitlement> Veggen - [ Advent of Code 2020 ] 01:02 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 01:05 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 01:26 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 01:38 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:41 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 01:41 < lnd-bot> [lnd] halseth merged pull request #4817: github: remove CODEOWNERS file (master...remove-codeowners) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4817 01:41 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 01:41 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 01:41 < lnd-bot> [lnd] halseth pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/c04773963b33...7dd3e182342d 01:41 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 44d8485 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: github: remove CODEOWNERS file 01:41 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 7dd3e18 Johan T. Halseth: Merge pull request #4817 from Roasbeef/remove-codeowners 01:41 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 01:43 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 01:45 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has joined #lnd 01:53 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-0-96.leed-a-2.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 02:04 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-121.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:26 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:41 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:42 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has joined #lnd 02:45 < Emcy> gmaxwell did you see, the bcha attacker triggered the 10 block finalisation exploit it seems 02:45 < Emcy> "while amaury was sleeping" lol 02:45 < Emcy> fun fun 02:51 < Veggen> the fun really starts when some BCHA supporters decides to hit back. BCHN is just as vulnerable (well, almost - hash rate isn't that prohibitive) 02:59 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 02:59 -!- A-cat [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04 < Emcy> ;;tlast 03:04 <@gribble> 19188.97 03:15 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/k4oieu/youve_done_the_impossible_declares_bitcoincom/ 03:15 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ “You’ve Done The Impossible!” Declares Bitcoin.com Host to Richard Heart, Founde... ] 03:15 -!- kristapsk_ [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:16 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:16 < Emcy> jesus christ roger is *still* shilling this blatant scam 03:16 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-forks 03:16 -!- willcl_ark [~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lnd 03:16 < Emcy> so scammy even his acolytes called him out for it till he made the noises they needed to hear to quiet them down 03:16 < Emcy> but hes still engaged with it 03:17 -!- openoms_ [~quassel@91.132.136.76] has joined #lnd 03:17 -!- openoms [~quassel@91.132.136.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:18 < Veggen> https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/k5382c/the_entertainment_never_ceases/ - seems Amaury has invoked the checkpoints? 03:18 < Entitlement> Veggen - [ The entertainment never ceases : btc ] 03:26 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 03:30 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:502d:e3d6:69e1:2ce7] has joined #lnd 03:36 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:502d:e3d6:69e1:2ce7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38 < Emcy> he and the main bcha miner did an invalidateblock about 200 blocks back lmao 03:43 < Veggen> tools are there to do the same in BCHN. 03:55 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 04:00 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:00 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 04:00 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 04:01 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:21 -!- petan [~g@wikimedia/Petrb] has joined #lnd 04:21 < queip> look at me proving how insecure my chain is 04:22 < queip> Emcy: also the less stupid of more stupid ex-bitcoiners are calling out egon. he is so annoying 04:28 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 04:31 -!- snowkidimd [~snowkidim@183.182.114.96] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:33 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has joined #lnd 04:53 -!- MasterdonX [~masterdon@45.9.249.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:55 < Emcy> theyre consistently overrulled 05:02 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 05:22 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #bitcoin-forks 05:26 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 05:28 -!- Eagle[TM] [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28 -!- Eagle[TM] [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:32 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37 < Veggen> queip: it must be frustrating to be a "sane" big-blocker, these days. 05:40 < pipirella> bitcoin was 20 years too late 05:40 < pipirella> I think the future of bitcoin might be fucked 05:41 < queip> pipirella: what do you mean too late? 05:42 < queip> also, 20 years ago block size would be like 0.05 MB or less, on damn dialups and all 05:43 < queip> is you mean 20 years from start, so in 1990's, then it wouldnt be possible for most people in europe to participate really at all in running node or mine 05:44 < queip> and none of crypto primitives were ready 05:47 < nsh> every technology is of its age, save for the bicycle and ak-47 05:48 < queip> check out this new RADICAL idea - our front page... in the Internet! geocities.com/bitcoin 05:50 < queip> pipirella: I think future of humanity is in serious danger, with china getting on top of USA with either spoofed elections or radicalised communist supporter, with NCOV new world order and great economical reset 05:51 < queip> but Bitcoin? not so much? sure there are things to improve but nothing too dramatic. Would be great to either get more decentralized cheap electricity and fags, or change pow at some point 05:51 < queip> uh, *fabs 05:53 < queip> is there some great danger for Btc that we should work against? 05:54 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 05:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 06:00 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 06:11 -!- tralfaz is now known as davterra 06:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32 -!- snowkidimd [~snowkidim@183.182.114.96] has joined #bitcoin-forks 06:54 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 07:19 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.232.227.138] has quit [Quit: jonatack] 07:36 -!- Bugz [~pi@035-134-224-053.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37 -!- Bugz [~pi@035-134-224-053.res.spectrum.com] has joined #lnd 07:38 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-169.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lnd 07:57 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 07:57 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd 08:02 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:05 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:05 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.202.107.20] has joined #lnd 08:28 < RusAlex> hi mates, I have ERR in logs constantly. https://termbin.com/gsvc Im using master point of lnd. and situation appeared when peer tried to open a channel to me, but then till confirmation canceled the funding transaction and I had 'pending_open_channel' with not existing transaction. then I did force close to this channel. and now I have this channel in 'waiting_close_channel' list 08:29 < midnight> phantomcircuit: maybe I'm just noticing it more these days. the *bsd people have a weird kind of ancient wisdom and honestly whenever I'm not around it things break more. :-/ 08:35 < midnight> queip: might just be roger.. 08:36 < Emcy> https://v.redd.it/n7owqsp6oq261/DASH_480.mp4#mp4 when you roll up to rob someone random but its actually your boy 08:36 < Emcy> south america 08:41 < gmaxwell> it's who ya know! 08:44 < Emcy> yep lol 08:44 < Emcy> 2 dudes riding a moped = trouble 08:48 < midnight> diving down the freebsd ports tree hole is like navigating a dropship.. in the pipe, five.. by five.. 08:50 < midnight> circular dependencies.. 08:50 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50 < midnight> a user bottleneck for options selection i haven't found a way around yet. 08:54 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.202.107.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:54 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd 09:00 -!- mango [~mango@c-73-71-224-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 09:02 < midnight> ooo.. a screen status window 09:02 < midnight> That's nice 09:02 < lndbot> Your node would have forgotten about the pending open channel after 2 weeks. But because you tried force closing, it is now in a state where you have to get rid of the manually 09:03 < midnight> right to the last character in the window! impressive 09:03 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #lnd 09:27 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 09:28 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 09:31 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 09:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:35 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 09:40 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:42 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 09:43 -!- spoke0_ [spoke0@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/spoke0] has joined #lnd 09:45 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 09:45 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:46 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:49 -!- niceplace [~nplace@185.166.84.84] has joined #lnd 09:51 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:51 -!- EnchanterTim is now known as SemperUbiSubUbi 09:56 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #lnd 10:05 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 10:06 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 10:08 < queip> [01/12/2020 22:07] Any decent resources for sourcing SHA-256 HW in North America 10:08 < queip> [02/12/2020 18:38] Decent source for SHA256 ASICs in Canada? 10:08 < queip> getting desperate xd 10:09 < queip> midnight: roger might be serious threat to btc? I hope it's the biggest threat we have then 10:11 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:18 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has joined #lnd 10:21 -!- snowkidimd [~snowkidim@183.182.114.96] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:32 < RusAlex> how to get rid of it ? 10:34 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 10:39 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/BitcoinCashSite/status/1334127976741548034 10:39 < Emcy> >biometric hardware wallet 10:39 < Emcy> oh no 10:40 < Emcy> biometrics is the biggest meme in computer security 10:47 < midnight> Emcy: "wait I needed that" 10:47 -!- Alzadoua [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has joined #lnd 10:50 -!- Alzadoua is now known as A-cat 10:55 < nkuttler> ah, biometrics. yeah, please cut off one of my limbs to exploit it 10:55 < gmaxwell> no need to bother, all that shit is super insecure. 10:55 < gmaxwell> intercept some pin, send a constant, biometric passes. 10:56 < nkuttler> that's reassuring 10:56 < Emcy> can you imagine someone storing an absolute fortune on a biometric wallet 10:56 < gmaxwell> it's only helpful if you assume the attacker won't disassemble the device. 10:56 < nkuttler> possibly protected by a fingerprint.. because that's so easy to secure 10:56 < lndbot> there's the `lncli abandonchannel` command. but you need to compile lnd from source to activate it, since it's a dangerous command (if the channel ever does get confirmed, you wouldn't be able to get your money out) 10:56 < Emcy> many many people will have absolutely no problem at all removing your thumb with a garden secateurs to get at it 10:59 < nkuttler> how many coins are we talking about? 10:59 < gmaxwell> fewer than people who wouldn't be willing to remove your thumb? 11:03 < queip> meanwhile biometric wallets in Poland - https://youtu.be/xLJVxoFVTNY?t=145 - still need the limb 11:21 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 11:23 -!- spoke0_ [spoke0@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/spoke0] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:24 < phantomcircuit> midnight, bsd stuff is all.... interesting 11:25 < phantomcircuit> i stopped using freebsd when there was a trivial lpe in the most obvious possible place, you just set LDPRELOAD and then ran any setuid binary and you were root 11:25 < phantomcircuit> if i can look at an exploit that severe and go... 'duh' 11:25 < phantomcircuit> well you fucked up 11:37 < gmaxwell> lots of OSes had ldpreload hax at one point. 11:38 < midnight> ehh.. I'm not totally sure but I'm pretty sure either that wasn't that easy, or there was a specific exploit for that which bypassed the LD_PRELOAD mitigation stuff (and was likely instantly fixed). LD_PRELOAD has been a hax0r-my-b0x0r mech for suid since almost before I ever used a command-line. 11:40 < midnight> Most of the recent stuff that was problematic in the *BSDs was a result of exposing kernel interfaces to userland via new facilities like userland fuse which were never meant to be exposed, or mbuf fiddling, etc. 11:41 < midnight> like. why give the user a path to sensitive filesystem calls. brutal. 11:42 < midnight> there have been random number-generator issues in a few versions of some BSD. 11:43 < gmaxwell> netbsd is brutal there. 11:43 < gmaxwell> the system rng totally insecure on three occasions within a window of three years. 11:44 < midnight> poor thor. :( 11:46 < Emcy> the one thing you really dont want to have a flaw 11:46 < Emcy> computers should try an tap whatever source of analogue noise they can, perhaps 11:47 < Emcy> the noise floor of the mic jack maybe 11:49 < midnight> http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/security/advisories/NetBSD-SA2013-003.txt.asc description of NetBSD's issue 11:53 < midnight> "Thanks to: Thor Lancelot Simon for causing, finding, "fixing", and fixing the bug 11:53 < midnight> and helping with this advisory." 12:02 < Emcy> is his name really thor 12:07 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 12:09 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:11 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:23 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yes but this was in like 2013 or something and i was very surprised 12:23 < phantomcircuit> it was also enough to breakout of freebsd jails which it shouldn't have been 12:26 < phantomcircuit> midnight, it was 2013 and it was literally just a .so running execve('/bin/sh') and you had a root shell out of the jail 12:35 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@156-155-146-25.ip.internet.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-forks 12:38 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@156-155-146-25.ip.internet.co.za] has quit [Changing host] 12:38 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has joined #bitcoin-forks 12:38 -!- HeySteve2 [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 12:42 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #lnd 12:45 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:45 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 12:46 < midnight> phantomcircuit: ehhh.. did you report it somewhere or document it? That hasn't worked in like 30y. 12:48 < phantomcircuit> midnight, it was released as a 0day with the simplest poc i've ever seen 12:48 < midnight> Like even in 2009, you had to be clever about LD_PRELOAD tricks: https://xorl.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/freebsd-ld_preload-security-bypass/ 12:48 < Entitlement> midnight - [ FreeBSD LD_PRELOAD Security Bypass | xorl %eax, %eax ] 12:48 -!- Sajesajama [Salsa@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/sajesajama] has joined #lnd 12:50 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:51 < phantomcircuit> midnight, btw the exploit in that example only works by random chance, if environ[0] is valid it doesn't work 12:51 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 12:52 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #bitcoin-forks 12:56 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:57 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 12:57 -!- A-cat [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:07 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08 -!- Alzadoua [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has joined #lnd 13:09 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:12 -!- wed [~wed@HSI-KBW-109-192-072-244.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in] 13:12 -!- brtastic1 [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd 13:13 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13 -!- wed [~wed@HSI-KBW-109-192-072-244.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lnd 13:14 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:15 < RusAlex> Im on master branch. But `make && make install` gives regular version where this command is disabled 13:16 -!- brtastic1 is now known as brtastic 13:19 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:24 < andytoshi> lol somebody is using my ringsigs https://mobile.twitter.com/n1ckler/status/1334240709814136833 13:24 < Entitlement> andytoshi - [ twitter - Twitter ] 13:25 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:30 < gmaxwell> someone should make a PR to bitcoin core to export all the taproot script pubkeys matching a {height,value} filter. 13:30 < andytoshi> somebody was just mentioning that scantxoutset can't do this even if we had taproot descriptor support 13:30 < andytoshi> but it should be able to 13:30 < queip> annoying that bitcoin core can't add watchonly address when prune 13:31 < gmaxwell> I suppose it would be pretty easy to ZKP the value too, 13:31 < queip> it should flag since which point it scanned 13:31 < andytoshi> at the very least you should be able to "get all taproot outputs" 13:32 < belcher> queip yes it can 13:32 < queip> belcher: by importaddr? 13:32 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: a proof of "I own 5 or more outputs, and combined they add to at least 1 BTC" should be pretty easy too. 13:32 < belcher> sure, any of those, importmulti too 13:32 < belcher> but rescan needs to be false 13:33 < andytoshi> i think "5 or more" might require a linkable ringsig to prevent you claiming the same output 5 times 13:33 < andytoshi> so it's mathematicalyl pretty easy but would probabyl be more than a couple hours of coding 13:33 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: ah, point. but yea would require a little more work to add the linkability. 13:34 < gmaxwell> maybe we should make some IRC channel that you can only join if you can anonymously prove to have an output worth some amount. ##bitcoin-hodl 13:34 < gmaxwell> :P 13:35 < andytoshi> haha, we've talked about that for years ...but with taproot + borromean sigs it's actually not too far from being reasonable 13:35 < gmaxwell> yeah, well we could have done it previously across already revealed pubkeys, but the anonymity set was not so hot. taproot will improve that a lot. 13:36 < midnight> gmaxwell: hah, that channel already exists 13:36 < midnight> (not by that name though) 13:36 < pipirella> look at me im rich 13:36 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:37 < belcher> how do you prove it now midnight ? 13:37 < midnight> not even 13:37 < midnight> the anonymity part is gentleperson's agreement 13:38 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 13:38 < gmaxwell> I'm aware of that channel. But it's also not enforced, it's all honor system. 13:38 < midnight> it used to be enforced. 13:38 < gmaxwell> which is fine in context. 13:38 < pipirella> does it have anything to do with whales? 13:38 < midnight> no 13:38 < gmaxwell> I don't recall anyone asking me to prove it when I was in there. 13:39 < pipirella> whales just make splash 13:39 < midnight> gmaxwell: that was after it stopped being enforced 13:39 < gmaxwell> (it would have been a huge PITA to do so, because I've always kept my coins on many outputs) 13:39 < pipirella> spartans hold 13:39 < pipirella> you are not exactly anonymous gmaxwell 13:39 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: A thing to do this could also add outputs with network-exposed pubkeys to the anonymity set. 13:40 < gmaxwell> pipirella: hows that related? 13:41 < pipirella> people expect you to have some bitcoin 13:41 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:41 < gmaxwell> pipirella: Sure sure. You've got it backwards. 13:42 < gmaxwell> The discussion here is a channel where people all have some bitcoin, but where they don't have to expose which coins are theirs or how much they have (other than being above the limit) 13:42 < andytoshi> gmaxwell: true, though it would be nice if we could get the output purely from the utxoset without needing another db of revealed keys 13:43 < gmaxwell> Agreed. 13:44 < gmaxwell> Though perhaps a static, system defined list of pkh->pubkey would be okay too... e.g. get whole utxo set from bitcoin, combine with static list. 13:45 < andytoshi> yeah. i guess it's not hard to validate such a list 13:45 < gmaxwell> even once taproot has been deployed for a year, the plausable anonymity set would still massively be increased by having that resolution table. The fact that it doesn't get updated wouldn't be a big deal, because new outputs should be taproot. 13:45 < gmaxwell> it would be self-validating, e.g. you hash it as you read it. 13:46 < andytoshi> ah yeah 13:47 < gmaxwell> and the static list could be populated using data from forkcoins too.. e.g. list of every pubkey that as of now has unspent coins in bitcoin and the pubkey is known from bitcoin or bcash history. 13:50 < andytoshi> haha true 13:50 < andytoshi> i guess that's an independently interesting project to gather every single EC key people have used on these networks 13:52 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-forks 13:53 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lnd 14:03 < gmaxwell> it was less interesting before taproot because people would move coins and then their coins would fall out of the list. 14:04 < gmaxwell> so the list would have to be constantly regenerated. 14:04 < andytoshi> iirc the size of the total list is multiple millions 14:04 < andytoshi> based on pieter's investigation when we were talk ing about hashing taproot 14:04 < Emcy> is there port and cigars in this hodlrs club 14:04 < andytoshi> would be hard to prove a multi-million sized ringsig 14:05 < andytoshi> though not impossible 14:05 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: with spendable coins? 14:06 < gmaxwell> probably not after filtering dust. 14:06 < andytoshi> ah right yeah 14:07 < gmaxwell> also a modern desktop should be able to prove at maybe 25,000 keys per second single threaded. 14:08 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has joined #lnd 14:09 < andytoshi> yeah i'm not too worried about 100s of 000s. but millions will take many minutes/hours 14:09 < gmaxwell> 7 minutes for 10 million? 14:24 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 14:27 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28 < andytoshi> yeah ok i wrote some benchmarks... 1000 keys is 45ms on my system. 2000 is 95. 5000 is 245 ... i.e. it scales pretty-much perfectly linearly as expected 14:28 < andytoshi> and 10 million would take.... 7.5 minutes. damnt :P 14:28 < gmaxwell> I can math. 14:29 < andytoshi> haha 14:45 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58 -!- SemperUbiSubUbi is now known as Hash 14:58 < pipirella> did satoshi add halvings for the pure purpose of drama? 14:58 < pipirella> or was it laziness? 14:59 < belcher> we dont know, but i think the drama aspect is a huge part of it 15:00 < belcher> having one single date that the entire world can obsess over is great for psychology 15:00 < belcher> if it was a smoothly decreasing function we wouldnt have any of that 15:01 < Emcy> probably because it results in the simplest coinbase reward schedule possible, which didnt even get its first single decimal fractional until 2 halfings later 15:01 < Emcy> maybe that was important to incentivise miners capacity planning 15:01 < Emcy> or maybe for no reason at all 15:02 < pipirella> were there really any miners before GPU days? 15:02 < pipirella> or FPGA even 15:03 < Emcy> some parts of bitcoin seem to be designed with a vision decades into the future, other parts seem like harebrained ideas he had while sitting on the toilet 15:03 < Emcy> like the built in gambling stuff lol 15:03 < pipirella> hahaha 15:03 < pipirella> yeah 15:03 < Emcy> pipirella satoshi was the first miner, on his cpu 15:04 < Emcy> people used to mine on cpus. You could just click generate coins in the gui. 15:04 < belcher> Emcy miners can capacity plan with any schedule, as long as its known 15:04 < belcher> i wonder if another reason is avoiding floating point arithmetic 15:04 < pipirella> yes but there's a big difference between running the bitcoin software and what mining is today, with the pools and the whole operation, the miners dont even use bitcoin 15:05 < Emcy> yes but maybe not having an infinitely long fractional for a coinbase which changes slightly every block would make people want to invest in mining more or something idk 15:06 < Emcy> like i said, maybe it was no reason at all. Maybe halfings happen because it was the simplest thing *for satoshi* 15:09 < gmaxwell> decreasing every block would make it more attractive to reorg prior blocks. 15:09 < gmaxwell> e.g. why should I take THIS block when I can try to get the last block? 15:09 < gmaxwell> with few miners that would have been a concern, if a minor one. 15:10 < gmaxwell> also he wanted it to be eventually be zero... but not initially be zero. 15:10 < gmaxwell> (because coins need to exist) 15:11 < gmaxwell> so it has to decrease. ... having it constant and then STOPing would be quite a shock. 15:12 < Emcy> i think we all expected 12.5 > 6.25 to be choppy, but nothing really happened 15:12 < gmaxwell> I feel confident that had I been making that decision I would have made the same one (well, no idea if I would have chosen similar intervals-- but a geometric series) 15:12 < gmaxwell> Emcy: meh go look at logs you can find me saying it wouldn't be. 15:12 < queip> gmaxwell: then wouldn't people fight on reorging the last 12.5 btc block? 15:13 < queip> (though yeah, then only 1, maybe 2 blocks affected.. problem just for ~an hour each 4 years) 15:13 < Emcy> well i expect something. but nothing happened to price or hashrate or anything 15:15 < gmaxwell> queip: it's a lot harder to setup to do something for just one block. 15:15 < gmaxwell> like only one miner will be the last block, but for that trouble to happen all miners would need to adjust their software. 15:16 < pipirella> so halving is every 210,000th block, there are 21M bitcoin (not really but for the sake of argument), something about 21 right 15:16 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-forks 15:17 < pipirella> and the 10 minute block thing, is that from waitbutwhy? what's the origin? some lesswrong thing? 15:17 < pipirella> satoshi id confirmed 15:17 < pipirella> this goes deep 15:18 < Emcy> divining satoshis constants, everyone goes down this rabbithole once or twice 15:18 < gmaxwell> well I believe 21m bitcoin came from the software originally having 0.01 precision and fitting the result into signed integers (31 bits). 15:18 < Emcy> who mined the last 12.5 block? 15:19 < pipirella> gmaxwell: right, and the first few emails warned satoshi about decimals combined with financial software? 15:20 < gmaxwell> I don't see how thats related. 15:21 < gmaxwell> There is no floating point in bitcoin itself, the the decimal in the display is cosmetic. 15:22 < pipirella> ok 15:23 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24 < pipirella> I thought earlier version had it 15:25 < pipirella> I remember the first halving and how little I knew back then 15:31 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has joined #bitcoin-forks 15:46 -!- dethos [~dethos@95.172.177.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lnd 15:57 -!- Sajesajama [Salsa@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/sajesajama] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58 -!- Sajesajama [Salsa@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/sajesajama] has joined #lnd 16:00 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@36.red-81-33-96.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@x59cc8250.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lnd 16:17 -!- davterra [~davterra@68.235.43.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-forks 16:41 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-0-96.leed-a-2.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #bitcoin-forks 17:11 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 17:13 < midnight> pipirella: 10 minutes is a super convenient constant. If you work out approximate propagation delays I think the viable consensus shell given some $x density of nodes goes out to the moon. If there's a single-line of comms without a shell, 10 minutes has all kinds of space-y possibilities. 17:18 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 17:23 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:23 < queip> mining both at Sun at here will be problematic for first years tho, at ~8 of 10 minutes lag ;) 17:23 -!- davterra [~davterra@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lnd 17:25 < midnight> you can't mine at the sun unless everyone mines at the sun 17:25 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-forks 17:27 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 17:30 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit 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services] 19:34 -!- dermoth_ is now known as dermoth 19:44 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 19:44 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48 -!- snowkidimd [~snowkidim@183.182.110.210] has joined #bitcoin-forks 19:49 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:50 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-forks 19:50 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [+o gribble] by ChanServ 20:12 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: probably would be much more pratical for a big coins proof to use a bulletproof, with a hashtree build over the outputs using the purify hash. log(utxo_set) time proving, verifying and log(log()) sized proofs. 20:13 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has joined #lnd 20:13 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: you can just use the purify hash of the private key as the thing you publish.. so you'd get a tracable 1 of N POK. 20:15 < gmaxwell> just not clear to me if you can super efficiently instantiate it over secp256k1 or if you'd have to flip it and instantate over secq256k1. 20:18 -!- roastedferret [~roastedfe@65-78-7-177.s1967.c3-0.nyr-cbr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcncustomer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 20:33 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4815: wtdb+wtclient: segregate session-key-index reservations by blob-type (master...wtclient-key-segregation) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4815 20:33 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 20:34 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 20:34 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/7dd3e182342d...c58589db3bad 20:34 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 9bd73c0 Conner Fromknecht: wtdb+wtclient: segregate session-key-index reservations by blob-type 20:34 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 6b4df04 Conner Fromknecht: wtclient_tests: remove expErr param from nextKeyIndex 20:34 < lnd-bot> lnd/master c58589d Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #4815 from cfromknecht/wtclient-key-segregation 20:34 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 20:41 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 20:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:57 -!- niceplace [~nplace@185.166.84.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03 -!- niceplace [~nplace@185.166.84.84] has joined #lnd 21:18 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has joined #lnd 22:05 -!- Sajesajama [Salsa@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/sajesajama] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10 -!- tralfaz [~davterra@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lnd 22:11 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-169.cust.tzulo.com] has 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