--- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:46 2020
00:07 < Emcy> >In its cleverness and complexity, Bitcoin would seem like a solution designed and shepherded by intellectuals … people who are not only computer experts but morally and ideologically pure as well. You might begin to regard the Core Developers, whose arcane arts you barely comprehend, as superior beings whose wisdom and committed libertarianism are fundamental to the success of the project.
00:07 < Emcy> this should be on sneerclub
00:10 < Emcy> >One faction, led by Gavin Andresen who was famously left in charge by Satoshi, wants to increase the limit. Allowing the block chain to grow seems obvious but wait … another faction, led by Gregory Maxwell, claims raising the limit would be dangerous because it would threaten decentralisation for technical scaling reasons.
00:10 < Emcy> >...So the only plausible explanation is that for some reason Gavin and Mike are less intellectual or moral than the others and lack their patience.
00:11 < Emcy> >Blockstream/Core Dev have proposed the terribly clever sounding Lightning Network, which they say is the final solution to scalability and involves no tradeoffs.
00:11 < Emcy> final solution? nice flourish mike
00:11 < Emcy> it was italics too
00:15 < midnight> He didn't end up selling everything. The tx from satoshi was still there last time I checked.
00:15 -!- favioflamingo1 [~Thunderbi@2405:6580:3c0:5a00:6108:fa3a:fa0d:dabd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:15 -!- immae [~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:15 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:15 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:16 -!- sevy[m] [sevyspesso@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mhnpfsmtaqwxkppx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:16 -!- sevy[m] [sevyspesso@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ubmpbwnpwtxcvjwg] has joined #lnd
00:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, dr-orlovsky, Veggen, lypsis, bitconner, jonatack
00:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, EmmyNoether, Veggen, rabidus
00:17 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has joined #bitcoin-forks
00:17 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has joined #lnd
00:17 -!- immae [~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::] has joined #bitcoin-forks
00:17 < midnight> :-/
00:17  * midnight stares
00:19 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:20 < Emcy> >The Bitcoin block size war is best understood not as a technical debate about the setting of a number, but rather as a fundamental conflict triggered by differences in underlying assumptions about human nature.
00:20 < Emcy> yes thanks mike for admitting after all that it was never about the fucking blocksize
00:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: dr-orlovsky, jonatack, Veggen, wxss, bitconner, lypsis
00:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: EmmyNoether, Veggen, rabidus, wxss
00:22 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has joined #lnd
00:22 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has joined #bitcoin-forks
00:23 < Emcy> basically mike simply read a Thomas Sowell book and suddenly https://badabingbadabambadaboom.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/i_understand_completely.jpg
00:23 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (533 x 500) ]
00:24 < Emcy> he also manages to refer to [what would become] bcashers as 'constrained vision', and calls bitcoiners 'unconstrained vision'
00:25 < Emcy> thanks i guess
00:25 < pipilainen> he was a visionary
00:25 < midnight> That's a really shitty outlook, and the two bins I don't think are so very differentiable
00:25 < pipilainen> but he was very polarizing
00:26 < Emcy> >In such an environment it is inevitable that people with the unconstrained vision will win because their beliefs naturally justify wildly aggressive tactics. Deception, censorship, obfuscation, delaying, making the rules up as they go along and outright criminal attacks on people who disagree with them can all be justified as being necessary to ensure the right outcomes are achieved. Their feelings of superiority combine with severe levels of
00:26 < Emcy> groupthink to blind them to their own mistakes.
00:26 < Emcy> he concludes that bitcoin will never work because people often have deep and fundamental differences of opinion
00:26 < Emcy> there i read it so u dont have to
00:37 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1338365886542049282
00:37 < Emcy> hes at it again
00:41 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:51 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, interesting that hearn shows up right as the price is rising
00:51 < phantomcircuit> almost like he has an obvious agenda or something
00:52 < pipilainen> perhaps they are announcing a bank deal
00:53 < gmaxwell> I think his blog is too low profile for that.
00:54 < pipilainen> yeah and only bitcoiners remember him
00:54 < gmaxwell> they'd have another hit piece in the times or similar if this was some R3 move.
00:57 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd
00:57 < Emcy> https://v.redd.it/f37i5w93x1561/DASH_720.mp4#mp4 wildlife
00:58 < Emcy> you can see the exact moment the deer thought 'hooooly shit im out'
00:59 < gmaxwell> I've seen that before, it seems like weirdly agressive behavior.
01:01 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
01:02 < Emcy> dont they usually attack other deer who are no backing down [because theyre made out of fibreglass]
01:02 < Emcy> i guess probably not, otherwise no one would make fibreglass deer
01:06 -!- Saxtheowl [~Saxtheowl@amarseille-654-1-444-182.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:07 < gmaxwell> usually when they fight they do a little ritual dance first.
01:08 < gmaxwell> at least the ones here do.
01:10 -!- tralfaz [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd
01:10 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
01:12 -!- laptop__ [~laptop@ppp-3-96.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd
01:13 < midnight> wut "This doesn't always work. The world is full of societies in which the unconstrained took power via a mix of violence and manipulation. There are fewer with time fortunately, but there's nothing inevitable about that and the world might regress again."
01:14 < midnight> Hearn is saying the BCF sputtered out becauuse out *outside attack*: "Partly due to being set up too fast and too many rum characters getting involved, but mostly because the pseudo-libertarians bent themselves towards the goal of wrecking it on the grounds that Bitcoin shouldn't have a foundation or a formalised development process."
01:14 < midnight> what the hell is wrong with his brain?!
01:15 < midnight> and some shilling for corda thrown in for good measure.
01:17 < midnight> It's like he's totally, and utterly lacking in any self-awareness whatsoever.
01:18 < Emcy> why did the BCF fail. apart from how it was always a vehicle for some captains of indutries ambitions and they lost interest when it didnt turn out to be a very good vehicle
01:18 < gmaxwell> It's interesting, do you think it's possible he believes his bcf conspiracy theories or is it just a calculated thing?
01:18 < gmaxwell> full of crooks.
01:19 < midnight> It failed because it was massively corrupt, and was spending money in totally unsustainable ways, it was politically taken-over by scamcoiners who just used it as a mechanism to push scamcoins, and its initial members were scum in the first place.
01:20 < Emcy> did it have like 5 figures of bitcoin initial funding
01:20 < midnight> Its constitution was also flawed, but I guess phantom has that part more firmly fixed in-mind.
01:20 < gmaxwell> mark, ver, schrem, peter vessenes--- jon eventually became nchain ceo, gavin backed wright.
01:20 < midnight> gmaxwell: I can't tell if he's so totally un-self-aware that he actually thinks these things or he's doing it as a weird revisionist propaganda thing.
01:22 < midnight> From my perspective, half the damn things *he himself did* are literally what he's complaining about!
01:22 < gmaxwell> Emcy: they had grand ambitions at influcing the government wrt bitcoin but after the arrest started they were too toxic to touch.
01:22 < gmaxwell> they also blew all their funds.
01:22 < Emcy> who got arrested
01:22 < midnight> Emphasis on the *blew*. Like burned it all as apparently, absolutely fast as possible.
01:22 < gmaxwell> schrem.
01:23 < Emcy> oh yeah he got like 4 years or somthing
01:23 < midnight> Emcy: Schrem, and then of course Karpeles.
01:23 < gmaxwell> They also squandred a lot of oppturnities, e.g. they were given some avalon miners and didn't even manage to keep them running.
01:23 < midnight> Karpeles resigned "before" any actual arrests were made.
01:24 < midnight> er. Before his arrest.
01:24 < Emcy> i remember being cautiously optimistic about bcf lol
01:24 < midnight> Man, phantom was totally against it literally just after reading the constitution.
01:24 < midnight> Like total revulsion. It was impressive.
01:24 < midnight> Or close to it anyway.
01:24 < Emcy> well good for him
01:25 < Emcy> i thought it would just be a way for the bitcoin community to attempt to interface with government
01:25 < gmaxwell> my view was "best of luck, can't hurt anything" -- that was naive but fortunately it self destructed.
01:25 < Emcy>  /legislature, which seemed like a better idea than open hostility at the time
01:25 < Emcy> yeah pretty much
01:26 < midnight> I hoped it would be, but the really weird testimonies that their faces were making, and the overtures for, basically, jobs, they were making of people they were interfacing with were super weird.
01:26 < midnight> That person that was Vessenes old .. like secretary or something. What was her name again..
01:27 < midnight> You know Bruce Fenton says the books were so badly kept that he *couldn't* actually perform any analyses posthoc?
01:27 < pipilainen> what is BCF?
01:27 < midnight> Most of the questions people demanded of him he claimed he couldn't answer because it was such an utter mess.
01:27 < pipilainen> bitcoin foundation?
01:27 < midnight> yeh
01:27 < pipilainen> yeah... those guys
01:28 < pipilainen> I was considering donating to fund development
01:28 < pipilainen> but then hell broke loose
01:29 < midnight> They kept Gavin out in pasture for a number of years. I think he thought it was his little mini cash cow. He basically just went totally away.
01:29 < gmaxwell> in some sense if was fortunate that they squandered so agressively rather than using the funding to build a lot of influence.
01:31 < midnight> Yes.
01:31 < midnight> But then, at the end of his salary, frickin' Gavin came back and caused no end of trouble.
01:32 < midnight> What was her name again..  the attractive one..  Jenny? She was the wife of someone surprising.
01:33 < midnight> I spotted her in like..  four early congressional or senatorial testimonials.
01:44 < midnight> jinyoung lee england ..
01:47 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
01:47 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
01:47 < gmaxwell> oh wow I forgot about her.
01:47 < gmaxwell> where did she vanish off to?
01:47 < midnight> she tried hard to venish.
01:47 < midnight> er. vanish.
01:47 < midnight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtSU-uVv4sk  this is her, here.
01:48 < midnight> Holy crap, what? "Jinyoung Lee Englund was a 2017 Republican special election candidate for District 45 of the Washington State Senate." ?
01:51 < midnight> Riiiight..  the wife of that marine "Strategic and Operational Planner" guy.
01:51 < gmaxwell> Name?
01:55 < midnight> Geoffrey Englund
01:56 < midnight> I recall being very surprised that she was his wife.
01:57 -!- DhongWang [~DhongWang@unaffiliated/dhongwang] has quit [Quit: Quit]
01:57 -!- TheHoliestRoger [~TheHolies@unaffiliated/theholiestroger] has quit [Quit: Find me in #TheHolyRoger or https://theholyroger.com]
01:58 -!- TheHoliestRoger [~TheHolies@unaffiliated/theholiestroger] has joined #lnd
01:58 -!- DhongWang [~DhongWang@unaffiliated/dhongwang] has joined #bitcoin-forks
02:00 < midnight> Hrm.
02:00 < midnight> One session I absolutely saw Englund in was testimonial from Mercedes Tunstall.
02:00 < midnight> Jinyung was in the background just *massively* sucking up.
02:01 < midnight> Here it is! https://www.c-span.org/video/?316346-1/senate-banking-virtual-currencies
02:01 < Entitlement> midnight - [ Virtual Currencies | C-SPAN.org ]
02:02 < midnight> Haa ha ha there's Gallippi too.
02:02 < midnight> better archive this.
02:04 < midnight> Wait who's that one the right at 1:06:18? That guy looks familiar.
02:04 < Emcy> 5 year plan lol
02:06 < midnight> lol wait is that jeff garzik
02:08 < midnight> geh I'm terrible with faces.
02:09 < midnight> Just for future reference sake, this is Hearn's follow-up reddit comment in r/btc regarding his 2020 blog post publishing from 2016 Mike Hearn blah blah https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kc2k3h/the_philosophical_origins_of_bitcoins_civil_war/gforyhb/
02:11 < Emcy> if he has the goatee its evil jeff garzik
02:13 < gmaxwell> midnight: someone should ask him if he still works for qinetiq
02:13 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
02:16 < midnight> I'm afraid of getting banned. I haven't commented in there in months. Or. Weeks?
02:16 < gmaxwell> they banned bashco
02:16 < midnight> guess the facade is just plain over.
02:16 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #bitcoin-forks
02:17 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd
02:18 < Emcy> what are you scared of? unless you can think of a better way to go out guns blazing
02:19 < Emcy> most other people they banned never got than chance, they just got disappeared
02:19 < midnight> Dunno; I might have to repost that anti-credit-stealing thing some more.
02:20 < gmaxwell> Emcy: well you gave up after they banned you. :P
02:21 < Emcy> i was trying to get banned wasnt it obvious
02:21 < midnight> +1 for bromhexine btw: https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1337889771058819074
02:21 < midnight> stock up
02:22 < Emcy> i never wanted a reddit account
02:22  * midnight has difficult-to-control urge to make sock puppets with "emcy" somewhere in the name
02:23 < midnight> Now you have seven!
02:23 < Emcy> go ahead lol idc
02:23 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:23 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:23 < midnight> I can't believe Jinyoung ran for the freekin senate!  haha wouldn't that be a thing
02:24 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-forks
02:24 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lnd
02:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
02:26 < midnight> Holy crap she only lost by 3851 votes.
02:28 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
02:28 < midnight> or, I guess 5394 in the general.
02:28 < midnight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Washington%27s_45th_state_senate_district_special_election#General_election_results
02:28 < Entitlement> midnight - [ 2017 Washington's 45th state senate district special election - Wikipedia ]
02:28 < Emcy> is that good or bad
02:28 < midnight> She's the reason why republicans lost Washington. :)
02:29 < midnight> Emcy: I'm just surprised that Bitcoin and especially the Bitcoin Foundation didn't end up tainting her future career more.
02:30 < Emcy> why would it
02:31 < midnight> Because of all ^^ that stuff we just mentioned.
02:32 < Emcy> its scummy but its not political outside of our little sphere
02:32 < Emcy> simply being objectively scummy is not what stymies peoples prospects
02:32 < midnight> Sure but why wouldn't her opponent just rip her a new one. It's an easy target. It was apparently the most expensive senate race in history. Her opponent clearly didn't do enough digging.
02:33 < Emcy> they probably did but its too complicated to explain to people so they didnt bother
02:34 < Emcy> easier to just call people racists or communists or whatever
02:34 < Emcy> i told you my friend got oppoed by his democrat rivals pet journalist, didnt i?
02:35 < midnight> oppoed?
02:35 < Emcy> that oppo was complete bollocks lol, but its was intuitively sensational to normies
02:35 < Emcy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_research
02:35 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Opposition research - Wikipedia ]
02:35 < midnight> I found their debate.
02:36 < midnight> (one of them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYAgr1legSk
02:36 < midnight> Uh, *state senate* btw.
02:38 < midnight> Emcy: why did he get oppo'd at all..?
02:39 < Emcy> because thats what dem journos do. its a pavlovian response.
02:39 < Emcy> it was a pissy little city council race lol
02:39  * midnight stares guiltily at extensive jinyoung stalking
02:39 < Emcy> i think he heading to new hampshire now
02:43  * midnight falls off chair, drags self towards food place
02:47 < Emcy> midnight i actually warned my bud that this journo who was up his ass with false accusations was most certainly associated with the dem candidate, and he told me i was being cynical......then queried it with the folks running the townhall event, and he showed me the email where they confirmed that journo X is a known 'informal' associate of dem candidate Y
02:47 < Emcy> and he was like bro how did you know youre not even from this country lol
02:48 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
02:52 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
03:02 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
03:03 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
03:09 -!- jpe_ [~jp@89.244.122.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:19 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
03:26 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #bitcoin-forks
03:28 -!- Saxtheowl [~Saxtheowl@amarseille-654-1-444-182.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lnd
03:40 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
03:45 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:02 < queip> youtube down
04:34 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd
04:50 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd
05:03 -!- tralfaz is now known as davterra
05:04 -!- ShellcatZero1 [~ShellcatZ@97-122-166-198.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-forks
05:05 -!- ShellcatZero [~ShellcatZ@97-122-182-106.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
05:07 -!- dermoth_ [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd
05:07 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Disconnected by services]
05:08 -!- dermoth_ is now known as dermoth
05:13 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
05:14 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lnd
05:47 -!- brtastic1 [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd
05:52 -!- brtastic1 [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
06:14 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit []
06:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
06:32 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@079-170-137-107-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
07:38 < queip> going back from custodial ownership of things, into non-BTC accepting, 90's tech domain resellers, feels so sleezy and bad
07:38 < queip> can't wait for the future where you LN-BTC atomic swap and get a .bit domain, and it actually works for everyone in their computer
07:39 < andytoshi> looks liek it's back up
07:40 < andytoshi> btw does anyone know an alternative to youtube music ... spotify noticably sounds like shit and is also missing lots of live/remix/nonstudio versions of music
07:40 < queip> *back into custodial
07:41 < queip> and paypal doesn't even accept btc yet. things are so horrible in this last-century tech
07:41 < andytoshi> lol, i mean, btc is still really hard to custody
07:42 < queip> andytoshi: hm? I mean it feels so weird when you give money to "some guys" who "promise" to keep it on "your account".
07:42 < andytoshi> sure, but that "promise" can be enforced unless they actually go bankrupt, and behind the scenes they have the cash in a bank who is also "promising" to hold it, in a way where they literally can't use it
07:43 < andytoshi> because it's just database entries that they're legally required to keep consistent
07:43 < andytoshi> and change if they somehow get un-consistent
07:43 < queip> and provide TOS, want email and phone and name, all is based on symmetrical passwords.  Going back from sanity of btc is so sad
07:43 < andytoshi> vs BTC where you can lose the keys and then you're fucked. it's a tough ergonomic problem and i don't blame large players for being cautious
07:43 < queip> andytoshi: yeah I will for sure sue company on other side of the world in case if they run away with my 100 bucks
07:44 < andytoshi> i have far less BTC than paypal would be holding, and i know more about BTC than everyone at paypal, and i'm still not super comfdortable with how my keys are stored
07:44 < andytoshi> queip: well i know multiple people who've had well over $100 stolen by paypal
07:45 < queip> andytoshi: also such DBs, and email, are so... they can just say "nope, he clicked in our web ui he doesn't want/does want that thing" "no I didnt"  "yes you did".  It's like moving back to cave when your starship crash
07:45 < andytoshi> i hear you
07:45 < andytoshi> i'm just saying this stuff is slow
07:45 < andytoshi> and there are ergonomic issues with how to store bitcoin that need to be resolved first
07:46 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
07:46 < andytoshi> when paypal can have some crazy tapscript where if they fail to refresh the funds every six months, then State Street or the SEC or whoever can recover it....maybe they'll be more comfortable
07:47 < andytoshi> or more realistically, some bitcoin-specific insurer
07:47 < andytoshi> lol, with taproot + descriptors they can basically add every insurance co they can find to every single output
07:47 < queip> andytoshi: well even concept of TOS. such web portals, paypals, shops, push like 10-30 pages of TOS. no one is reading that. What if it says somewhere you forefeit funds if something small and silly and you can't sue.
07:48 < andytoshi> well those TOS are not generally legally enforceable
07:48 < andytoshi> i don't know why they have them, in the US it's been established many times that clicking through 20 pages of shit does not constitute a binding agreement
07:57 < queip> andytoshi: with losing your keys, just force users even more to make backups and verify them, allow 1-of-2 recovery. If someone has no idea what he is doing have him 1-of-2 with his friend(you) or even with a custodial backup owner
07:57 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-forks
07:57 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd
07:58 < andytoshi> "force users even more to make backups" is not a sane solution and "make more backups" is not useful advice for an institution
07:59 < queip> bitcoin core wallets are now HD too anyway right? and most others are.  just backup this files once and you can't lose Bitcoin funds onchain.
08:00 < andytoshi> "just back this up once and you can never lose it" has not been true for any form of data ever
08:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:00 < queip> you mean the case if company loses every last backup of their wallet.dat?
08:01 < andytoshi> yes, or the decryption key to that
08:01 < andytoshi> and i haven't even started in on how you control access to these..
08:01 < andytoshi> just ensuring "someone on earth has access at all" is hard enough
08:01 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher
08:01 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher
08:04 < andytoshi> prescient tweet someone just shared with me https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/1336072433091059712
08:04 < Entitlement> andytoshi - [ twitter - Twitter ]
08:05 < andytoshi> speculation about coinbase losing persononell on their key management team
08:05 < andytoshi> this is also something we've had to think carefully about at Blockstream
08:06 < waxwing> i wonder if a person with DID should employ a multisig to control their funds
08:06 < waxwing> hmm well i guess Shamir wouldn't work :)
08:09 < queip> 1 of CEOs [or top shareholders], 1 of lawyers, 1 of administrators (employees).  Each does multiple backups, encrypted with 2 alternative passwords.  Write clues on paper and deposit in 3-4 locations, and daily, then weekly, test whether you still in fact remember it
08:09 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #bitcoin-forks
08:09 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lnd
08:09 < queip> (or any other elaborated scheme as much as you need - that's great)
08:14 < andytoshi> ok queip and who writes the code to do all this and how do you audit this
08:14 < andytoshi> and how do you explain to your legal and exec staff how to do all this minutae which they are not able to outsource
08:14 < queip> not sure if that's rn possible onchain, but that should block most attacks I can think of - make two part sage payment. you must onchain record where you send and how much funds, then N=1000 blocks must pass, and only then funds are actually delivered there. You have 1000 blocks to notice your money is going somewhere it shouldn't and in that time if you publish another special funds then they cancel that movement and instead move to prepared
08:14 < queip> very-cold wallet
08:14 < queip> *two part payment
08:15 < andytoshi> also having your CEO do daily/weekly memory tests? come on jack
08:16 < queip> andytoshi: I'm about to start doing it. Dry test takes under a minute (in memory), and real one (input and compare it's hash is it what it should be) few  minutes
08:17 < andytoshi> eek now you're regularly inputting secrets into a computer? what computer? how is -that- audited?
08:17 < andytoshi> who has access to it
08:19 < queip> andytoshi: my offline computer. Always I or someone very trusted watches over it.  Yes, during some time this 3 people would be evil-maided by their family then there can be trouble.  But takes just 1 evil employee to steal my money from bank accnt and such things happened (or your accountant turning to be malicious)
08:22 < andytoshi> who are "you" in this scenario? the CEO? he now has a 24/7 "guard this computer" job?
08:22 < queip> andytoshi: yes
08:23 < queip> wait
08:23 < queip> andytoshi: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/44/a9/5c44a984fef2f369360b159fa457c836.png
08:23 < Entitlement> queip - [ png (600 x 729) ]
08:26 < queip> anyway this feels a bit like moving goalpost, if everyone around you is ready to evilmaid you or compromise any supply chain the second you look away, and this happens to many of your trusted people of various groups, then it will be a hard one to solve. How ever any of this is better than relying on 1 person how it is usually
08:27 < andytoshi> i am moving the goalposts, but i'm still nowhere near a realistic security model
08:28 < andytoshi> and you've already well exceeded a reasonable amount of complexity for a company like paypal to have implemented by now
08:28 < queip> andytoshi: you assume in same time frame a CEO, a lawyer and an administrator  each of them will be successfully evilmaided on their home computer?
08:29 < andytoshi> wait, why does this have to be in the same timeframe? did you add some complexity i missed?
08:29 < queip> andytoshi: dunno about PP, but there are cases of companies, even government jobs, where 1 bad accountant stole millions. They are gone. They will not get them back. Accountant will be in jail for years, but money will not return
08:30 < andytoshi> and if they're using their -home- computer then it's internet connected so there's no need for evil maids
08:30 < andytoshi> queip: right, i am aware
08:30 < andytoshi> but it's much much easier with crypto
08:30 < andytoshi> because you don't need to create offshore bank accounts or physically haul around bags of notes
08:31 < queip> andytoshi: if you want to sue, you can as well sue the 1 CEO, 1 lawyer and 1 admin who took it (and they can try to sell story about being evilmaided, or mind-controlled etc)
08:32 < andytoshi> "I followed the process and the coins are now gone" is not a hard story to sell
08:32 < andytoshi> "i did not create this tx which takes the coins. i don't know who did"
08:32 < otoburb> mark karpeles redux
08:33 < queip> and he got to visit the fast japanese style diet summer camp for it
08:34 < queip> it is visible which keys are used (also, a benefit over SSS), and being responsible for private data is nothing new. Easier to prove then being responsible for normal symm passsword that could be stolen in few other places not on your side
08:35 < andytoshi> can you cite one of these "rogue accountant stole millions" cases where a single lost password (or a collection of lost passwords even) was enough to steal all the money?
08:35 < otoburb> wonder how saylor addresses this today
08:35 < andytoshi> i would be genuinely fascinated to learn about this
08:35 < queip> clearly it is the regular password that is harder to prove. Bank says: your CEO logged with this pass.  CEO says: nope I didn't. Who is lying?  We recently had a feet of incompetence of staff at a major bank, sending random SMSs to customers, logging users to random accounts etc
08:35 < andytoshi> but my understanding is that evil accountants have a lot of institutional knowledge and do social engineering and have implicit authority to move funds around, e.g. when calling their custodians
08:36 < andytoshi> and there's a lot more to it than just losing track of a password
08:36 < queip> andytoshi: in some governmental office, their accountant was slowly transfering some of money to own account. that's all
08:36 < queip> accountant as in person sending moeny to contractors and employees  (not the one that just prepares tax documents and balance books)
08:37 < andytoshi> plus -- you can use a low-entropy password, even 30 bits of entropy will protect you if your system prevents rapid pinging (as any non-internet facing bank service would)
08:37 < andytoshi> atm PINs are typically less than 20 bits
08:37 < queip> https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Ksiegowa-z-Gdanska-oskarzona-o-kradziez-700-tys-zl-7829566.html
08:37 < andytoshi> vs a bitcoin key where there's a pubkey that's on the blockchain ... and if it takes less than 80 bits to grind (which is more than most people can remember reliably)
08:38 < andytoshi> then it's gonna get grinded
08:38 < queip> external accountant(+sending money to staff etc)
08:38 < queip> got hired by 2 companies
08:38 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
08:38 < queip> slowly transferred out to own bank ~200,000 USD in 94 bank transsfers
08:39 < andytoshi> do you think that could happen merely because someone was negligent with secret data?
08:39 < andytoshi> or did he need to develop a trusted (employee) relationship with two companies and then exploit that
08:40 < queip> andytoshi: it was  her job to do payments on behalf of company. In this case, they should look more closely where she sends money. But then again they would be doubling that work then themselves
08:40 < queip> solving 2nd accountant to verify 1st one would do it - but if we move goalpost a bit then and 2 of 2 are evil then it againt wouldn't work
08:40 < andytoshi> right ... so this is almost my point .. even that little bit of due diligence is less than what's required to keep track of bitcoin keys
08:41 < andytoshi> and it's still too much to be reasonable
08:41 < queip> andytoshi: this money flow was hidden among real flow, not that easy to see.  btw this is how ever other use case than simply holding large amount of our yearly budget as a whole
08:41 < andytoshi> but with bitcoin the probability of attacks are way higher, the attack surface way wider, the technical barries to understanding are way higher, the technical barriers to splitting custody are way higher
08:42 < queip> in simpler use case of just guarding a lump sum and not moving it, any dilligence would reveal it.  But of course, if she pretends it was the bank making it up, and bank says it was her, there is no way to know, other than just assuming bank is "more serious" here... which is far from good given that banks randomly given full access to random accounts to random new customers, just recently
08:44 < queip> that is where I disagree, with bank there are no bariers you can try to overcome, it is just trust their word or don't
08:44 < queip> feels weird explaining why keeping custody of your money is better that heaving a "trusted" 3rd party do it, in elite bitcoin channel :)
08:46 < queip> even simple use of bitcoin is hard to audit.  Heaving a standarized tools to do such schemes, in Bitcoin Core, reviewed by everyone, after some time, would be good enough for me plus I can hire devels to review it more, can't do that with bank's database (And they could edit DB anyway)
08:47 < queip> bank's tech bariers are lower only in the sense that you have no way of even doing it in trustless way
08:47 < andytoshi> ok, well standardized schemes to do more than a simple multisig don't yet exist in bitcoin core
08:47 < andytoshi> this is the point of the miniscript project :)
08:47 < queip> yeap, and that should be the future
08:51 < grubles> there are apparently rumors trump will pardon assange
08:58 < andytoshi> i don't understand how that is consistent with trump's "law and order" schtick
08:59 < queip> sounds like a good news, grubles. is that evel legally possible at current state of "trial" against assange?
08:59 < queip> also I dunno why he couldn't as well do it 3 years ago
09:00 < grubles> well there's no chance of re-election so...YOLO?
09:03 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #lnd
09:06 < queip> I think it was a big mistake to play it too safe, and not push heavy anti-censorship, anti MSM-libel, laws early on. They hated and backstabbed him anyway. In hindsight
09:08 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:11 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:16 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has joined #lnd
09:33 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@079-170-137-164-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lnd
09:45 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has joined #bitcoin-forks
09:49 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:50 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
09:51 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-174.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lnd
09:54 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
09:57 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:15 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #bitcoin-forks
10:18 < pipilainen> they elected a narcisistic bafoon as president. they are tidying up the mess best they can
10:18 < pipilainen> it was embarraasing but lets move on
10:19 < andytoshi> queip: anti-censorship *and* anti-libel?
10:19 < pipilainen> he might have done some good things, i dont follow us politics, but the idiot is gone and people should forget his yellow face
10:35 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-raxwzvzfjkidaprc] has joined #bitcoin-forks
10:45 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.139] has quit [Quit: jonatack]
10:52 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd
10:57 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
10:58 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.195] has joined #lnd
11:01 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:02 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:03 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd
11:13 -!- A-cat [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:14 -!- Alzadoua [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has joined #lnd
11:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:28 < phantomcircuit> andytoshi, i suspect most bank pins are dates, so certainly less than 10^4 options
11:29 < andytoshi> yeah, there are probably more like 6 bits of entropy
11:29 < phantomcircuit> is that what log(365, 2) is
11:29 < andytoshi> no, it's log(64, 2) :P
11:30 < andytoshi> i thought you meant dates like "years between 1950 and now"
11:30 < andytoshi> but ah, if it's calendar dates too then you get like 9 bits
11:30 < phantomcircuit> andytoshi, no i mean birthdays mostly
11:30 < andytoshi> log(365,2) is around 8.5
11:30 < phantomcircuit> i think a hilarious % of pins are birthdays
11:31 < phantomcircuit> people think nobody will guess because why would you guess their dogs birthday?? except birthdays themselves is a much smaller space
11:39 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:40 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:43 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:43 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:44 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:45 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
11:49 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
12:11 < gmaxwell> about 6.8% of 6-digit pins are possible YMD or MDY pins (assuming all two digit years are possible)
12:12 < gmaxwell> 16.06 bits of entropy.
12:13 < gmaxwell> (I even counted leap-years mostly correctly)
12:13 < gmaxwell> though people aren't born uniformly.
12:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd
12:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4861: GitHub+Travis+docker: update golang patch version to 1.15.6 everywhere (master...go-version-update) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4861
12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd []
12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd
12:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/71c19b480dcf...90a45fe2cf7f
12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master e68c0bf Oliver Gugger: docker: update to latest golang base image
12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 91ed4d8 Oliver Gugger: GitHub+Travis: update to latest golang patch version
12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 90a45fe Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #4861 from guggero/go-version-update
12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd []
12:33 < midnight> grubles: The "Pastor" guy who started that rumour retracted it.
12:37 < midnight> ;;calc 1220/60*10
12:37 <@gribble> 203.333333333
12:38 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit []
12:44 < queip> andytoshi: I was wondering is someone asks about that. Yes, because one is standard to which "the medial" will be held, the Publishers.  Other would be for ones declaring to be either a Neutral Platform, or to be some "hidepark" area - all here might be a parody or not true, proceed keeping that in mind
12:44 < queip> oh great it's true, PornHub removed like 80% of material
12:45 < queip> after they closed down the most privacy friendly DNS registrar (that was using bitcoin)
12:45 < queip> coincidence, or crackdown on using platforms while your account is not tied up to a human (that can be e.g. sued)
12:47 < grubles> midnight: oh did he start it?
12:57 -!- laptop__ [~laptop@ppp-3-96.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:58 < midnight> midnight: yeah I think so.
12:58 < midnight> it took off pretty good. Lot of wishful thinking.
12:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks
13:03 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
13:05 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
13:06 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:07 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd
13:07 < lnd-bot> [lnd] guggero opened pull request #4865: chanrestore: flip case logic for old backup logic (master...restore-logic-fix) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4865
13:07 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd []
13:08 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
13:16 < grubles> lol wonder what is motive was
13:27 < grubles> his, even
13:28 < grubles> he had to have seen or heard something before right? or did he just pull it out of his ass i guess?
13:36 < midnight> grubles: who knows: https://twitter.com/pastormarkburns/status/1338543695742857224  what an idiot
13:40 < midnight> grubles: this is the origin (far as I can tell) of the rumour that spread so wildly: https://twitter.com/pastormarkburns/status/1338518866683686915
13:42 < midnight> looks like he wears eyeliner
13:43  * midnight is grumpy about noticing how many of the actors wore eyeliner in babylon 5
13:48 < grubles> lol
13:49 < grubles> see though. he's claiming he had a faulty source.
13:53 < midnight> yeh but never identified it.
13:53 < midnight> Because idiot.
13:59 < grubles> well at least maybe it will get more people to demand it
13:59 < grubles> it being the pardon
14:02 < midnight> snowballs in hell and so on
14:03 < Emcy> he should do it just as a huge fuck you to the tla deep state spook fucks who finagled him his entire presidency
14:03 < Emcy> but he wont
14:03 < Sebimot0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6_3T8wQyjU&ab_channel=99direwolf
14:03 < Sebimot0> After Midnight - Jerry Garcia Band
14:03 < Emcy> he should declassify roswell
14:03 < Emcy> he should blow up the whole fucking shebang on his way out
14:07 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has joined #lnd
14:10 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd
14:18 -!- Hash is now known as THC
14:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
14:28 -!- THC is now known as EnchanterTim
14:36 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:41 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:41 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:50 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:54 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
14:56 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i suspect if you narrowed it to people 18-70 and grouped by most common birthdays you'd get way less than 16 bits
14:56 < phantomcircuit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQFJ7gse_c&ab_channel=NBCNewYork
14:56 < phantomcircuit> lol they got a black doctor to give a black nurse the vaccine in an attempt to get black people to actually take it
15:14 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: people sometimes use stuff like their grandparent birthday or other famous dates.
15:21 < pipilainen> what's wrong with 1111? it's as good as any random password
15:21 < pipilainen> :)
15:21 < pipilainen> my maths are pretty strong with this
15:22 < queip> ok, Data
15:46 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
15:50 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:51 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
15:56 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:06 -!- EnchanterTim is now known as Hash
16:12 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
16:16 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd
16:29 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4865: chanrestore: flip case logic for old backup logic (master...restore-logic-fix) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4865
16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd []
16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd
16:29 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/90a45fe2cf7f...f8dda6f0eeb9
16:29 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 693d0f6 Oliver Gugger: chanrestore: flip case logic
16:29 < lnd-bot> lnd/master f8dda6f Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #4865 from guggero/restore-logic-fix
16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd []
16:33 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd
16:43 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:57 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:57 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:59 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd
17:14 < Emcy> https://youtu.be/_JNGI1dI-e8 its always an appropriate time for a spaceballs reference
17:29 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit []
18:01 < midnight> Emcy:  I AGREE
18:03 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high
18:03 <@gribble> 19499.0
18:03 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker
18:03 <@gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19463.6, Best ask: 19469.68, Bid-ask spread: 6.08000, Last trade: 19471.24, 24 hour volume: 3892.67855665, 24 hour low: 19038.39, 24 hour high: 19499.0, 24 hour vwap: 19201.88
18:07 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
18:19 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:20 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd
18:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd
18:23 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high
18:23 <@gribble> 19556.86
18:23 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:23 < Emcy> its happening
18:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:24 < gmaxwell> https://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif
18:24 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ gif (312 x 213) ]
18:25 < Emcy> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/613/446/081.gif
18:25 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ gif (670 x 473) ]
18:27 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kcvjn8/the_195k_resistance_is_a_big_challenge_for_bitcoin/
18:27 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ The $ 19.5K resistance is a big challenge for Bitcoin : btc ]
18:28 < Emcy> submitted 15 hours ago lol
18:39 -!- Entitlement [~Entitleme@u2.my.to] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:39 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/shelbyonthemic/status/1338634568555843584 excellent example of the affinity scam
18:42 -!- Entitlement [~Entitleme@u2.my.to] has joined #bitcoin-forks
18:43 < midnight> pretty scummy.
18:48 < Emcy> >journalism degree
19:43 -!- MavropaliasG [~alpha@122-151-126-148.sta.dodo.net.au] has joined #bitcoin-forks
20:30 -!- MavropaliasG [~alpha@122-151-126-148.sta.dodo.net.au] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:37 < Emcy> ;;tlast
20:37 <@gribble> 19426.6
20:38 < Emcy> ;;tlast -high
20:38 <@gribble> (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. If <market> is provided, uses that exchange. Default is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. (1 more message)
20:38 < Emcy> ;;tlast --high
20:38 <@gribble> Error: Please only choose at most one result option at a time.
20:38 < Emcy> ;;ticker --high
20:38 <@gribble> 19567.84
20:53 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in]
20:53 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has joined #lnd
21:14 < Emcy> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211
21:14 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ 'New variant' of coronavirus identified in England - BBC News ]
21:14 < Emcy> what
21:15 < Emcy> mutations happen all the time, why is this in the news
21:34 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2988:9e27:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:53 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
22:00 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lnd
22:01 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
22:04 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:10 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd
22:22 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-forks
22:35 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@186.213.91.147] has joined #lnd
22:38 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd
22:52 < Emcy> https://de.catbox.moe/nlk29d.jpg i love this website
22:56 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, there's only 3 main variants iirc
22:56 < phantomcircuit> one of them is actually less deadly but more virulent
22:57 < Emcy> it was never deadly
22:57 < Emcy> but the virulence is a problem
23:02 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, i mean 2% cfr is pretty deadly
23:03 < Emcy> its not 2%
23:05 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, the cfr is actually that high, the ifr is lower
23:05 < Emcy> >The current best estimate of the CFR for COVID-19 according to the Johns Hopkins University is 2.1% in the US.[11]
23:05 < Emcy> fuck
23:05 < phantomcircuit> that means confirmed cases the fatality rate is 2%
23:05 < phantomcircuit> the 'estimated' infection fatality rate is lower... but not much
23:06 < phantomcircuit> it's like 1.4%
23:07 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, yeah, 2.1% in a country with access to advanced care
23:08 < phantomcircuit> im sure it's much much worse in other places
23:09 < Emcy> not sure id class the US as 'access' to advanced care
23:17 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:22 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, it's only very recently that ICU beds have been full
23:26 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd
23:26 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-forks
23:28 < pipilainen> such things much also be dependent on population age and obesity levels
23:32 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd
23:34 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd
23:37 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:48 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd
--- Log closed Tue Dec 15 00:00:49 2020