--- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:46 2020 00:07 < Emcy> >In its cleverness and complexity, Bitcoin would seem like a solution designed and shepherded by intellectuals … people who are not only computer experts but morally and ideologically pure as well. You might begin to regard the Core Developers, whose arcane arts you barely comprehend, as superior beings whose wisdom and committed libertarianism are fundamental to the success of the project. 00:07 < Emcy> this should be on sneerclub 00:10 < Emcy> >One faction, led by Gavin Andresen who was famously left in charge by Satoshi, wants to increase the limit. Allowing the block chain to grow seems obvious but wait … another faction, led by Gregory Maxwell, claims raising the limit would be dangerous because it would threaten decentralisation for technical scaling reasons. 00:10 < Emcy> >...So the only plausible explanation is that for some reason Gavin and Mike are less intellectual or moral than the others and lack their patience. 00:11 < Emcy> >Blockstream/Core Dev have proposed the terribly clever sounding Lightning Network, which they say is the final solution to scalability and involves no tradeoffs. 00:11 < Emcy> final solution? nice flourish mike 00:11 < Emcy> it was italics too 00:15 < midnight> He didn't end up selling everything. The tx from satoshi was still there last time I checked. 00:15 -!- favioflamingo1 [~Thunderbi@2405:6580:3c0:5a00:6108:fa3a:fa0d:dabd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15 -!- immae [~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16 -!- sevy[m] [sevyspesso@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mhnpfsmtaqwxkppx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16 -!- sevy[m] [sevyspesso@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ubmpbwnpwtxcvjwg] has joined #lnd 00:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, dr-orlovsky, Veggen, lypsis, bitconner, jonatack 00:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, EmmyNoether, Veggen, rabidus 00:17 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has joined #bitcoin-forks 00:17 -!- kamyl [~user@unaffiliated/kamyl] has joined #lnd 00:17 -!- immae [~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::] has joined #bitcoin-forks 00:17 < midnight> :-/ 00:17 * midnight stares 00:19 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:20 < Emcy> >The Bitcoin block size war is best understood not as a technical debate about the setting of a number, but rather as a fundamental conflict triggered by differences in underlying assumptions about human nature. 00:20 < Emcy> yes thanks mike for admitting after all that it was never about the fucking blocksize 00:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: dr-orlovsky, jonatack, Veggen, wxss, bitconner, lypsis 00:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: EmmyNoether, Veggen, rabidus, wxss 00:22 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has joined #lnd 00:22 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has joined #bitcoin-forks 00:23 < Emcy> basically mike simply read a Thomas Sowell book and suddenly https://badabingbadabambadaboom.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/i_understand_completely.jpg 00:23 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (533 x 500) ] 00:24 < Emcy> he also manages to refer to [what would become] bcashers as 'constrained vision', and calls bitcoiners 'unconstrained vision' 00:25 < Emcy> thanks i guess 00:25 < pipilainen> he was a visionary 00:25 < midnight> That's a really shitty outlook, and the two bins I don't think are so very differentiable 00:25 < pipilainen> but he was very polarizing 00:26 < Emcy> >In such an environment it is inevitable that people with the unconstrained vision will win because their beliefs naturally justify wildly aggressive tactics. Deception, censorship, obfuscation, delaying, making the rules up as they go along and outright criminal attacks on people who disagree with them can all be justified as being necessary to ensure the right outcomes are achieved. Their feelings of superiority combine with severe levels of 00:26 < Emcy> groupthink to blind them to their own mistakes. 00:26 < Emcy> he concludes that bitcoin will never work because people often have deep and fundamental differences of opinion 00:26 < Emcy> there i read it so u dont have to 00:37 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1338365886542049282 00:37 < Emcy> hes at it again 00:41 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, interesting that hearn shows up right as the price is rising 00:51 < phantomcircuit> almost like he has an obvious agenda or something 00:52 < pipilainen> perhaps they are announcing a bank deal 00:53 < gmaxwell> I think his blog is too low profile for that. 00:54 < pipilainen> yeah and only bitcoiners remember him 00:54 < gmaxwell> they'd have another hit piece in the times or similar if this was some R3 move. 00:57 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd 00:57 < Emcy> https://v.redd.it/f37i5w93x1561/DASH_720.mp4#mp4 wildlife 00:58 < Emcy> you can see the exact moment the deer thought 'hooooly shit im out' 00:59 < gmaxwell> I've seen that before, it seems like weirdly agressive behavior. 01:01 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:02 < Emcy> dont they usually attack other deer who are no backing down [because theyre made out of fibreglass] 01:02 < Emcy> i guess probably not, otherwise no one would make fibreglass deer 01:06 -!- Saxtheowl [~Saxtheowl@amarseille-654-1-444-182.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07 < gmaxwell> usually when they fight they do a little ritual dance first. 01:08 < gmaxwell> at least the ones here do. 01:10 -!- tralfaz [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd 01:10 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12 -!- laptop__ [~laptop@ppp-3-96.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 01:13 < midnight> wut "This doesn't always work. The world is full of societies in which the unconstrained took power via a mix of violence and manipulation. There are fewer with time fortunately, but there's nothing inevitable about that and the world might regress again." 01:14 < midnight> Hearn is saying the BCF sputtered out becauuse out *outside attack*: "Partly due to being set up too fast and too many rum characters getting involved, but mostly because the pseudo-libertarians bent themselves towards the goal of wrecking it on the grounds that Bitcoin shouldn't have a foundation or a formalised development process." 01:14 < midnight> what the hell is wrong with his brain?! 01:15 < midnight> and some shilling for corda thrown in for good measure. 01:17 < midnight> It's like he's totally, and utterly lacking in any self-awareness whatsoever. 01:18 < Emcy> why did the BCF fail. apart from how it was always a vehicle for some captains of indutries ambitions and they lost interest when it didnt turn out to be a very good vehicle 01:18 < gmaxwell> It's interesting, do you think it's possible he believes his bcf conspiracy theories or is it just a calculated thing? 01:18 < gmaxwell> full of crooks. 01:19 < midnight> It failed because it was massively corrupt, and was spending money in totally unsustainable ways, it was politically taken-over by scamcoiners who just used it as a mechanism to push scamcoins, and its initial members were scum in the first place. 01:20 < Emcy> did it have like 5 figures of bitcoin initial funding 01:20 < midnight> Its constitution was also flawed, but I guess phantom has that part more firmly fixed in-mind. 01:20 < gmaxwell> mark, ver, schrem, peter vessenes--- jon eventually became nchain ceo, gavin backed wright. 01:20 < midnight> gmaxwell: I can't tell if he's so totally un-self-aware that he actually thinks these things or he's doing it as a weird revisionist propaganda thing. 01:22 < midnight> From my perspective, half the damn things *he himself did* are literally what he's complaining about! 01:22 < gmaxwell> Emcy: they had grand ambitions at influcing the government wrt bitcoin but after the arrest started they were too toxic to touch. 01:22 < gmaxwell> they also blew all their funds. 01:22 < Emcy> who got arrested 01:22 < midnight> Emphasis on the *blew*. Like burned it all as apparently, absolutely fast as possible. 01:22 < gmaxwell> schrem. 01:23 < Emcy> oh yeah he got like 4 years or somthing 01:23 < midnight> Emcy: Schrem, and then of course Karpeles. 01:23 < gmaxwell> They also squandred a lot of oppturnities, e.g. they were given some avalon miners and didn't even manage to keep them running. 01:23 < midnight> Karpeles resigned "before" any actual arrests were made. 01:24 < midnight> er. Before his arrest. 01:24 < Emcy> i remember being cautiously optimistic about bcf lol 01:24 < midnight> Man, phantom was totally against it literally just after reading the constitution. 01:24 < midnight> Like total revulsion. It was impressive. 01:24 < midnight> Or close to it anyway. 01:24 < Emcy> well good for him 01:25 < Emcy> i thought it would just be a way for the bitcoin community to attempt to interface with government 01:25 < gmaxwell> my view was "best of luck, can't hurt anything" -- that was naive but fortunately it self destructed. 01:25 < Emcy> /legislature, which seemed like a better idea than open hostility at the time 01:25 < Emcy> yeah pretty much 01:26 < midnight> I hoped it would be, but the really weird testimonies that their faces were making, and the overtures for, basically, jobs, they were making of people they were interfacing with were super weird. 01:26 < midnight> That person that was Vessenes old .. like secretary or something. What was her name again.. 01:27 < midnight> You know Bruce Fenton says the books were so badly kept that he *couldn't* actually perform any analyses posthoc? 01:27 < pipilainen> what is BCF? 01:27 < midnight> Most of the questions people demanded of him he claimed he couldn't answer because it was such an utter mess. 01:27 < pipilainen> bitcoin foundation? 01:27 < midnight> yeh 01:27 < pipilainen> yeah... those guys 01:28 < pipilainen> I was considering donating to fund development 01:28 < pipilainen> but then hell broke loose 01:29 < midnight> They kept Gavin out in pasture for a number of years. I think he thought it was his little mini cash cow. He basically just went totally away. 01:29 < gmaxwell> in some sense if was fortunate that they squandered so agressively rather than using the funding to build a lot of influence. 01:31 < midnight> Yes. 01:31 < midnight> But then, at the end of his salary, frickin' Gavin came back and caused no end of trouble. 01:32 < midnight> What was her name again.. the attractive one.. Jenny? She was the wife of someone surprising. 01:33 < midnight> I spotted her in like.. four early congressional or senatorial testimonials. 01:44 < midnight> jinyoung lee england .. 01:47 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:47 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:47 < gmaxwell> oh wow I forgot about her. 01:47 < gmaxwell> where did she vanish off to? 01:47 < midnight> she tried hard to venish. 01:47 < midnight> er. vanish. 01:47 < midnight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtSU-uVv4sk this is her, here. 01:48 < midnight> Holy crap, what? "Jinyoung Lee Englund was a 2017 Republican special election candidate for District 45 of the Washington State Senate." ? 01:51 < midnight> Riiiight.. the wife of that marine "Strategic and Operational Planner" guy. 01:51 < gmaxwell> Name? 01:55 < midnight> Geoffrey Englund 01:56 < midnight> I recall being very surprised that she was his wife. 01:57 -!- DhongWang [~DhongWang@unaffiliated/dhongwang] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:57 -!- TheHoliestRoger [~TheHolies@unaffiliated/theholiestroger] has quit [Quit: Find me in #TheHolyRoger or https://theholyroger.com] 01:58 -!- TheHoliestRoger [~TheHolies@unaffiliated/theholiestroger] has joined #lnd 01:58 -!- DhongWang [~DhongWang@unaffiliated/dhongwang] has joined #bitcoin-forks 02:00 < midnight> Hrm. 02:00 < midnight> One session I absolutely saw Englund in was testimonial from Mercedes Tunstall. 02:00 < midnight> Jinyung was in the background just *massively* sucking up. 02:01 < midnight> Here it is! https://www.c-span.org/video/?316346-1/senate-banking-virtual-currencies 02:01 < Entitlement> midnight - [ Virtual Currencies | C-SPAN.org ] 02:02 < midnight> Haa ha ha there's Gallippi too. 02:02 < midnight> better archive this. 02:04 < midnight> Wait who's that one the right at 1:06:18? That guy looks familiar. 02:04 < Emcy> 5 year plan lol 02:06 < midnight> lol wait is that jeff garzik 02:08 < midnight> geh I'm terrible with faces. 02:09 < midnight> Just for future reference sake, this is Hearn's follow-up reddit comment in r/btc regarding his 2020 blog post publishing from 2016 Mike Hearn blah blah https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kc2k3h/the_philosophical_origins_of_bitcoins_civil_war/gforyhb/ 02:11 < Emcy> if he has the goatee its evil jeff garzik 02:13 < gmaxwell> midnight: someone should ask him if he still works for qinetiq 02:13 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 02:16 < midnight> I'm afraid of getting banned. I haven't commented in there in months. Or. Weeks? 02:16 < gmaxwell> they banned bashco 02:16 < midnight> guess the facade is just plain over. 02:16 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #bitcoin-forks 02:17 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 02:18 < Emcy> what are you scared of? unless you can think of a better way to go out guns blazing 02:19 < Emcy> most other people they banned never got than chance, they just got disappeared 02:19 < midnight> Dunno; I might have to repost that anti-credit-stealing thing some more. 02:20 < gmaxwell> Emcy: well you gave up after they banned you. :P 02:21 < Emcy> i was trying to get banned wasnt it obvious 02:21 < midnight> +1 for bromhexine btw: https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1337889771058819074 02:21 < midnight> stock up 02:22 < Emcy> i never wanted a reddit account 02:22 * midnight has difficult-to-control urge to make sock puppets with "emcy" somewhere in the name 02:23 < midnight> Now you have seven! 02:23 < Emcy> go ahead lol idc 02:23 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23 < midnight> I can't believe Jinyoung ran for the freekin senate! haha wouldn't that be a thing 02:24 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #bitcoin-forks 02:24 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lnd 02:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:26 < midnight> Holy crap she only lost by 3851 votes. 02:28 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 02:28 < midnight> or, I guess 5394 in the general. 02:28 < midnight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Washington%27s_45th_state_senate_district_special_election#General_election_results 02:28 < Entitlement> midnight - [ 2017 Washington's 45th state senate district special election - Wikipedia ] 02:28 < Emcy> is that good or bad 02:28 < midnight> She's the reason why republicans lost Washington. :) 02:29 < midnight> Emcy: I'm just surprised that Bitcoin and especially the Bitcoin Foundation didn't end up tainting her future career more. 02:30 < Emcy> why would it 02:31 < midnight> Because of all ^^ that stuff we just mentioned. 02:32 < Emcy> its scummy but its not political outside of our little sphere 02:32 < Emcy> simply being objectively scummy is not what stymies peoples prospects 02:32 < midnight> Sure but why wouldn't her opponent just rip her a new one. It's an easy target. It was apparently the most expensive senate race in history. Her opponent clearly didn't do enough digging. 02:33 < Emcy> they probably did but its too complicated to explain to people so they didnt bother 02:34 < Emcy> easier to just call people racists or communists or whatever 02:34 < Emcy> i told you my friend got oppoed by his democrat rivals pet journalist, didnt i? 02:35 < midnight> oppoed? 02:35 < Emcy> that oppo was complete bollocks lol, but its was intuitively sensational to normies 02:35 < Emcy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_research 02:35 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Opposition research - Wikipedia ] 02:35 < midnight> I found their debate. 02:36 < midnight> (one of them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYAgr1legSk 02:36 < midnight> Uh, *state senate* btw. 02:38 < midnight> Emcy: why did he get oppo'd at all..? 02:39 < Emcy> because thats what dem journos do. its a pavlovian response. 02:39 < Emcy> it was a pissy little city council race lol 02:39 * midnight stares guiltily at extensive jinyoung stalking 02:39 < Emcy> i think he heading to new hampshire now 02:43 * midnight falls off chair, drags self towards food place 02:47 < Emcy> midnight i actually warned my bud that this journo who was up his ass with false accusations was most certainly associated with the dem candidate, and he told me i was being cynical......then queried it with the folks running the townhall event, and he showed me the email where they confirmed that journo X is a known 'informal' associate of dem candidate Y 02:47 < Emcy> and he was like bro how did you know youre not even from this country lol 02:48 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:52 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 03:02 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 03:03 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 03:09 -!- jpe_ [~jp@89.244.122.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 03:26 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #bitcoin-forks 03:28 -!- Saxtheowl [~Saxtheowl@amarseille-654-1-444-182.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lnd 03:40 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:45 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02 < queip> youtube down 04:34 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd 04:50 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd 05:03 -!- tralfaz is now known as davterra 05:04 -!- ShellcatZero1 [~ShellcatZ@97-122-166-198.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-forks 05:05 -!- ShellcatZero [~ShellcatZ@97-122-182-106.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:07 -!- dermoth_ [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd 05:07 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:08 -!- dermoth_ is now known as dermoth 05:13 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:14 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lnd 05:47 -!- brtastic1 [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd 05:52 -!- brtastic1 [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:14 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [] 06:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 06:32 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@079-170-137-107-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:38 < queip> going back from custodial ownership of things, into non-BTC accepting, 90's tech domain resellers, feels so sleezy and bad 07:38 < queip> can't wait for the future where you LN-BTC atomic swap and get a .bit domain, and it actually works for everyone in their computer 07:39 < andytoshi> looks liek it's back up 07:40 < andytoshi> btw does anyone know an alternative to youtube music ... spotify noticably sounds like shit and is also missing lots of live/remix/nonstudio versions of music 07:40 < queip> *back into custodial 07:41 < queip> and paypal doesn't even accept btc yet. things are so horrible in this last-century tech 07:41 < andytoshi> lol, i mean, btc is still really hard to custody 07:42 < queip> andytoshi: hm? I mean it feels so weird when you give money to "some guys" who "promise" to keep it on "your account". 07:42 < andytoshi> sure, but that "promise" can be enforced unless they actually go bankrupt, and behind the scenes they have the cash in a bank who is also "promising" to hold it, in a way where they literally can't use it 07:43 < andytoshi> because it's just database entries that they're legally required to keep consistent 07:43 < andytoshi> and change if they somehow get un-consistent 07:43 < queip> and provide TOS, want email and phone and name, all is based on symmetrical passwords. Going back from sanity of btc is so sad 07:43 < andytoshi> vs BTC where you can lose the keys and then you're fucked. it's a tough ergonomic problem and i don't blame large players for being cautious 07:43 < queip> andytoshi: yeah I will for sure sue company on other side of the world in case if they run away with my 100 bucks 07:44 < andytoshi> i have far less BTC than paypal would be holding, and i know more about BTC than everyone at paypal, and i'm still not super comfdortable with how my keys are stored 07:44 < andytoshi> queip: well i know multiple people who've had well over $100 stolen by paypal 07:45 < queip> andytoshi: also such DBs, and email, are so... they can just say "nope, he clicked in our web ui he doesn't want/does want that thing" "no I didnt" "yes you did". It's like moving back to cave when your starship crash 07:45 < andytoshi> i hear you 07:45 < andytoshi> i'm just saying this stuff is slow 07:45 < andytoshi> and there are ergonomic issues with how to store bitcoin that need to be resolved first 07:46 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:46 < andytoshi> when paypal can have some crazy tapscript where if they fail to refresh the funds every six months, then State Street or the SEC or whoever can recover it....maybe they'll be more comfortable 07:47 < andytoshi> or more realistically, some bitcoin-specific insurer 07:47 < andytoshi> lol, with taproot + descriptors they can basically add every insurance co they can find to every single output 07:47 < queip> andytoshi: well even concept of TOS. such web portals, paypals, shops, push like 10-30 pages of TOS. no one is reading that. What if it says somewhere you forefeit funds if something small and silly and you can't sue. 07:48 < andytoshi> well those TOS are not generally legally enforceable 07:48 < andytoshi> i don't know why they have them, in the US it's been established many times that clicking through 20 pages of shit does not constitute a binding agreement 07:57 < queip> andytoshi: with losing your keys, just force users even more to make backups and verify them, allow 1-of-2 recovery. If someone has no idea what he is doing have him 1-of-2 with his friend(you) or even with a custodial backup owner 07:57 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-forks 07:57 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 07:58 < andytoshi> "force users even more to make backups" is not a sane solution and "make more backups" is not useful advice for an institution 07:59 < queip> bitcoin core wallets are now HD too anyway right? and most others are. just backup this files once and you can't lose Bitcoin funds onchain. 08:00 < andytoshi> "just back this up once and you can never lose it" has not been true for any form of data ever 08:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00 < queip> you mean the case if company loses every last backup of their wallet.dat? 08:01 < andytoshi> yes, or the decryption key to that 08:01 < andytoshi> and i haven't even started in on how you control access to these.. 08:01 < andytoshi> just ensuring "someone on earth has access at all" is hard enough 08:01 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 08:01 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 08:04 < andytoshi> prescient tweet someone just shared with me https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/1336072433091059712 08:04 < Entitlement> andytoshi - [ twitter - Twitter ] 08:05 < andytoshi> speculation about coinbase losing persononell on their key management team 08:05 < andytoshi> this is also something we've had to think carefully about at Blockstream 08:06 < waxwing> i wonder if a person with DID should employ a multisig to control their funds 08:06 < waxwing> hmm well i guess Shamir wouldn't work :) 08:09 < queip> 1 of CEOs [or top shareholders], 1 of lawyers, 1 of administrators (employees). Each does multiple backups, encrypted with 2 alternative passwords. Write clues on paper and deposit in 3-4 locations, and daily, then weekly, test whether you still in fact remember it 08:09 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #bitcoin-forks 08:09 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lnd 08:09 < queip> (or any other elaborated scheme as much as you need - that's great) 08:14 < andytoshi> ok queip and who writes the code to do all this and how do you audit this 08:14 < andytoshi> and how do you explain to your legal and exec staff how to do all this minutae which they are not able to outsource 08:14 < queip> not sure if that's rn possible onchain, but that should block most attacks I can think of - make two part sage payment. you must onchain record where you send and how much funds, then N=1000 blocks must pass, and only then funds are actually delivered there. You have 1000 blocks to notice your money is going somewhere it shouldn't and in that time if you publish another special funds then they cancel that movement and instead move to prepared 08:14 < queip> very-cold wallet 08:14 < queip> *two part payment 08:15 < andytoshi> also having your CEO do daily/weekly memory tests? come on jack 08:16 < queip> andytoshi: I'm about to start doing it. Dry test takes under a minute (in memory), and real one (input and compare it's hash is it what it should be) few minutes 08:17 < andytoshi> eek now you're regularly inputting secrets into a computer? what computer? how is -that- audited? 08:17 < andytoshi> who has access to it 08:19 < queip> andytoshi: my offline computer. Always I or someone very trusted watches over it. Yes, during some time this 3 people would be evil-maided by their family then there can be trouble. But takes just 1 evil employee to steal my money from bank accnt and such things happened (or your accountant turning to be malicious) 08:22 < andytoshi> who are "you" in this scenario? the CEO? he now has a 24/7 "guard this computer" job? 08:22 < queip> andytoshi: yes 08:23 < queip> wait 08:23 < queip> andytoshi: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/44/a9/5c44a984fef2f369360b159fa457c836.png 08:23 < Entitlement> queip - [ png (600 x 729) ] 08:26 < queip> anyway this feels a bit like moving goalpost, if everyone around you is ready to evilmaid you or compromise any supply chain the second you look away, and this happens to many of your trusted people of various groups, then it will be a hard one to solve. How ever any of this is better than relying on 1 person how it is usually 08:27 < andytoshi> i am moving the goalposts, but i'm still nowhere near a realistic security model 08:28 < andytoshi> and you've already well exceeded a reasonable amount of complexity for a company like paypal to have implemented by now 08:28 < queip> andytoshi: you assume in same time frame a CEO, a lawyer and an administrator each of them will be successfully evilmaided on their home computer? 08:29 < andytoshi> wait, why does this have to be in the same timeframe? did you add some complexity i missed? 08:29 < queip> andytoshi: dunno about PP, but there are cases of companies, even government jobs, where 1 bad accountant stole millions. They are gone. They will not get them back. Accountant will be in jail for years, but money will not return 08:30 < andytoshi> and if they're using their -home- computer then it's internet connected so there's no need for evil maids 08:30 < andytoshi> queip: right, i am aware 08:30 < andytoshi> but it's much much easier with crypto 08:30 < andytoshi> because you don't need to create offshore bank accounts or physically haul around bags of notes 08:31 < queip> andytoshi: if you want to sue, you can as well sue the 1 CEO, 1 lawyer and 1 admin who took it (and they can try to sell story about being evilmaided, or mind-controlled etc) 08:32 < andytoshi> "I followed the process and the coins are now gone" is not a hard story to sell 08:32 < andytoshi> "i did not create this tx which takes the coins. i don't know who did" 08:32 < otoburb> mark karpeles redux 08:33 < queip> and he got to visit the fast japanese style diet summer camp for it 08:34 < queip> it is visible which keys are used (also, a benefit over SSS), and being responsible for private data is nothing new. Easier to prove then being responsible for normal symm passsword that could be stolen in few other places not on your side 08:35 < andytoshi> can you cite one of these "rogue accountant stole millions" cases where a single lost password (or a collection of lost passwords even) was enough to steal all the money? 08:35 < otoburb> wonder how saylor addresses this today 08:35 < andytoshi> i would be genuinely fascinated to learn about this 08:35 < queip> clearly it is the regular password that is harder to prove. Bank says: your CEO logged with this pass. CEO says: nope I didn't. Who is lying? We recently had a feet of incompetence of staff at a major bank, sending random SMSs to customers, logging users to random accounts etc 08:35 < andytoshi> but my understanding is that evil accountants have a lot of institutional knowledge and do social engineering and have implicit authority to move funds around, e.g. when calling their custodians 08:36 < andytoshi> and there's a lot more to it than just losing track of a password 08:36 < queip> andytoshi: in some governmental office, their accountant was slowly transfering some of money to own account. that's all 08:36 < queip> accountant as in person sending moeny to contractors and employees (not the one that just prepares tax documents and balance books) 08:37 < andytoshi> plus -- you can use a low-entropy password, even 30 bits of entropy will protect you if your system prevents rapid pinging (as any non-internet facing bank service would) 08:37 < andytoshi> atm PINs are typically less than 20 bits 08:37 < queip> https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Ksiegowa-z-Gdanska-oskarzona-o-kradziez-700-tys-zl-7829566.html 08:37 < andytoshi> vs a bitcoin key where there's a pubkey that's on the blockchain ... and if it takes less than 80 bits to grind (which is more than most people can remember reliably) 08:38 < andytoshi> then it's gonna get grinded 08:38 < queip> external accountant(+sending money to staff etc) 08:38 < queip> got hired by 2 companies 08:38 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 08:38 < queip> slowly transferred out to own bank ~200,000 USD in 94 bank transsfers 08:39 < andytoshi> do you think that could happen merely because someone was negligent with secret data? 08:39 < andytoshi> or did he need to develop a trusted (employee) relationship with two companies and then exploit that 08:40 < queip> andytoshi: it was her job to do payments on behalf of company. In this case, they should look more closely where she sends money. But then again they would be doubling that work then themselves 08:40 < queip> solving 2nd accountant to verify 1st one would do it - but if we move goalpost a bit then and 2 of 2 are evil then it againt wouldn't work 08:40 < andytoshi> right ... so this is almost my point .. even that little bit of due diligence is less than what's required to keep track of bitcoin keys 08:41 < andytoshi> and it's still too much to be reasonable 08:41 < queip> andytoshi: this money flow was hidden among real flow, not that easy to see. btw this is how ever other use case than simply holding large amount of our yearly budget as a whole 08:41 < andytoshi> but with bitcoin the probability of attacks are way higher, the attack surface way wider, the technical barries to understanding are way higher, the technical barriers to splitting custody are way higher 08:42 < queip> in simpler use case of just guarding a lump sum and not moving it, any dilligence would reveal it. But of course, if she pretends it was the bank making it up, and bank says it was her, there is no way to know, other than just assuming bank is "more serious" here... which is far from good given that banks randomly given full access to random accounts to random new customers, just recently 08:44 < queip> that is where I disagree, with bank there are no bariers you can try to overcome, it is just trust their word or don't 08:44 < queip> feels weird explaining why keeping custody of your money is better that heaving a "trusted" 3rd party do it, in elite bitcoin channel :) 08:46 < queip> even simple use of bitcoin is hard to audit. Heaving a standarized tools to do such schemes, in Bitcoin Core, reviewed by everyone, after some time, would be good enough for me plus I can hire devels to review it more, can't do that with bank's database (And they could edit DB anyway) 08:47 < queip> bank's tech bariers are lower only in the sense that you have no way of even doing it in trustless way 08:47 < andytoshi> ok, well standardized schemes to do more than a simple multisig don't yet exist in bitcoin core 08:47 < andytoshi> this is the point of the miniscript project :) 08:47 < queip> yeap, and that should be the future 08:51 < grubles> there are apparently rumors trump will pardon assange 08:58 < andytoshi> i don't understand how that is consistent with trump's "law and order" schtick 08:59 < queip> sounds like a good news, grubles. is that evel legally possible at current state of "trial" against assange? 08:59 < queip> also I dunno why he couldn't as well do it 3 years ago 09:00 < grubles> well there's no chance of re-election so...YOLO? 09:03 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #lnd 09:06 < queip> I think it was a big mistake to play it too safe, and not push heavy anti-censorship, anti MSM-libel, laws early on. They hated and backstabbed him anyway. In hindsight 09:08 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has joined #lnd 09:33 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@079-170-137-164-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lnd 09:45 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has joined #bitcoin-forks 09:49 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 09:51 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-174.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #lnd 09:54 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 09:57 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:15 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #bitcoin-forks 10:18 < pipilainen> they elected a narcisistic bafoon as president. they are tidying up the mess best they can 10:18 < pipilainen> it was embarraasing but lets move on 10:19 < andytoshi> queip: anti-censorship *and* anti-libel? 10:19 < pipilainen> he might have done some good things, i dont follow us politics, but the idiot is gone and people should forget his yellow face 10:35 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-raxwzvzfjkidaprc] has joined #bitcoin-forks 10:45 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.139] has quit [Quit: jonatack] 10:52 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd 10:57 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:58 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.195] has joined #lnd 11:01 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:03 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd 11:13 -!- A-cat [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:14 -!- Alzadoua [~Alzadoua@unaffiliated/alzadoua] has joined #lnd 11:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:28 < phantomcircuit> andytoshi, i suspect most bank pins are dates, so certainly less than 10^4 options 11:29 < andytoshi> yeah, there are probably more like 6 bits of entropy 11:29 < phantomcircuit> is that what log(365, 2) is 11:29 < andytoshi> no, it's log(64, 2) :P 11:30 < andytoshi> i thought you meant dates like "years between 1950 and now" 11:30 < andytoshi> but ah, if it's calendar dates too then you get like 9 bits 11:30 < phantomcircuit> andytoshi, no i mean birthdays mostly 11:30 < andytoshi> log(365,2) is around 8.5 11:30 < phantomcircuit> i think a hilarious % of pins are birthdays 11:31 < phantomcircuit> people think nobody will guess because why would you guess their dogs birthday?? except birthdays themselves is a much smaller space 11:39 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:43 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:44 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 11:49 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:11 < gmaxwell> about 6.8% of 6-digit pins are possible YMD or MDY pins (assuming all two digit years are possible) 12:12 < gmaxwell> 16.06 bits of entropy. 12:13 < gmaxwell> (I even counted leap-years mostly correctly) 12:13 < gmaxwell> though people aren't born uniformly. 12:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 12:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4861: GitHub+Travis+docker: update golang patch version to 1.15.6 everywhere (master...go-version-update) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4861 12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 12:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/71c19b480dcf...90a45fe2cf7f 12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master e68c0bf Oliver Gugger: docker: update to latest golang base image 12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 91ed4d8 Oliver Gugger: GitHub+Travis: update to latest golang patch version 12:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 90a45fe Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #4861 from guggero/go-version-update 12:31 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 12:33 < midnight> grubles: The "Pastor" guy who started that rumour retracted it. 12:37 < midnight> ;;calc 1220/60*10 12:37 <@gribble> 203.333333333 12:38 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 12:44 < queip> andytoshi: I was wondering is someone asks about that. Yes, because one is standard to which "the medial" will be held, the Publishers. Other would be for ones declaring to be either a Neutral Platform, or to be some "hidepark" area - all here might be a parody or not true, proceed keeping that in mind 12:44 < queip> oh great it's true, PornHub removed like 80% of material 12:45 < queip> after they closed down the most privacy friendly DNS registrar (that was using bitcoin) 12:45 < queip> coincidence, or crackdown on using platforms while your account is not tied up to a human (that can be e.g. sued) 12:47 < grubles> midnight: oh did he start it? 12:57 -!- laptop__ [~laptop@ppp-3-96.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58 < midnight> midnight: yeah I think so. 12:58 < midnight> it took off pretty good. Lot of wishful thinking. 12:59 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-forks 13:03 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 13:05 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 13:06 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 13:07 < lnd-bot> [lnd] guggero opened pull request #4865: chanrestore: flip case logic for old backup logic (master...restore-logic-fix) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4865 13:07 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 13:08 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:16 < grubles> lol wonder what is motive was 13:27 < grubles> his, even 13:28 < grubles> he had to have seen or heard something before right? or did he just pull it out of his ass i guess? 13:36 < midnight> grubles: who knows: https://twitter.com/pastormarkburns/status/1338543695742857224 what an idiot 13:40 < midnight> grubles: this is the origin (far as I can tell) of the rumour that spread so wildly: https://twitter.com/pastormarkburns/status/1338518866683686915 13:42 < midnight> looks like he wears eyeliner 13:43 * midnight is grumpy about noticing how many of the actors wore eyeliner in babylon 5 13:48 < grubles> lol 13:49 < grubles> see though. he's claiming he had a faulty source. 13:53 < midnight> yeh but never identified it. 13:53 < midnight> Because idiot. 13:59 < grubles> well at least maybe it will get more people to demand it 13:59 < grubles> it being the pardon 14:02 < midnight> snowballs in hell and so on 14:03 < Emcy> he should do it just as a huge fuck you to the tla deep state spook fucks who finagled him his entire presidency 14:03 < Emcy> but he wont 14:03 < Sebimot0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6_3T8wQyjU&ab_channel=99direwolf 14:03 < Sebimot0> After Midnight - Jerry Garcia Band 14:03 < Emcy> he should declassify roswell 14:03 < Emcy> he should blow up the whole fucking shebang on his way out 14:07 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has joined #lnd 14:10 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd 14:18 -!- Hash is now known as THC 14:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:26 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 14:28 -!- THC is now known as EnchanterTim 14:36 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:41 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:54 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:56 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i suspect if you narrowed it to people 18-70 and grouped by most common birthdays you'd get way less than 16 bits 14:56 < phantomcircuit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQFJ7gse_c&ab_channel=NBCNewYork 14:56 < phantomcircuit> lol they got a black doctor to give a black nurse the vaccine in an attempt to get black people to actually take it 15:14 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: people sometimes use stuff like their grandparent birthday or other famous dates. 15:21 < pipilainen> what's wrong with 1111? it's as good as any random password 15:21 < pipilainen> :) 15:21 < pipilainen> my maths are pretty strong with this 15:22 < queip> ok, Data 15:46 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 15:50 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 15:56 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06 -!- EnchanterTim is now known as Hash 16:12 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 16:16 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 16:29 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4865: chanrestore: flip case logic for old backup logic (master...restore-logic-fix) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4865 16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has joined #lnd 16:29 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/90a45fe2cf7f...f8dda6f0eeb9 16:29 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 693d0f6 Oliver Gugger: chanrestore: flip case logic 16:29 < lnd-bot> lnd/master f8dda6f Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #4865 from guggero/restore-logic-fix 16:29 -!- lnd-bot [~lnd-bot@165.227.7.29] has left #lnd [] 16:33 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd 16:43 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:57 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57 -!- Sebimot0 [~tom@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd 17:14 < Emcy> https://youtu.be/_JNGI1dI-e8 its always an appropriate time for a spaceballs reference 17:29 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 18:01 < midnight> Emcy: I AGREE 18:03 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high 18:03 <@gribble> 19499.0 18:03 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker 18:03 <@gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19463.6, Best ask: 19469.68, Bid-ask spread: 6.08000, Last trade: 19471.24, 24 hour volume: 3892.67855665, 24 hour low: 19038.39, 24 hour high: 19499.0, 24 hour vwap: 19201.88 18:07 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 18:19 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20 -!- molz_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 18:20 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 18:23 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high 18:23 <@gribble> 19556.86 18:23 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23 < Emcy> its happening 18:24 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24 < gmaxwell> https://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif 18:24 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ gif (312 x 213) ] 18:25 < Emcy> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/613/446/081.gif 18:25 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ gif (670 x 473) ] 18:27 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kcvjn8/the_195k_resistance_is_a_big_challenge_for_bitcoin/ 18:27 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ The $ 19.5K resistance is a big challenge for Bitcoin : btc ] 18:28 < Emcy> submitted 15 hours ago lol 18:39 -!- Entitlement [~Entitleme@u2.my.to] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/shelbyonthemic/status/1338634568555843584 excellent example of the affinity scam 18:42 -!- Entitlement [~Entitleme@u2.my.to] has joined #bitcoin-forks 18:43 < midnight> pretty scummy. 18:48 < Emcy> >journalism degree 19:43 -!- MavropaliasG [~alpha@122-151-126-148.sta.dodo.net.au] has joined #bitcoin-forks 20:30 -!- MavropaliasG [~alpha@122-151-126-148.sta.dodo.net.au] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:37 < Emcy> ;;tlast 20:37 <@gribble> 19426.6 20:38 < Emcy> ;;tlast -high 20:38 <@gribble> (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market |all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. If is provided, uses that exchange. Default is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. (1 more message) 20:38 < Emcy> ;;tlast --high 20:38 <@gribble> Error: Please only choose at most one result option at a time. 20:38 < Emcy> ;;ticker --high 20:38 <@gribble> 19567.84 20:53 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 20:53 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has joined #lnd 21:14 < Emcy> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211 21:14 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ 'New variant' of coronavirus identified in England - BBC News ] 21:14 < Emcy> what 21:15 < Emcy> mutations happen all the time, why is this in the news 21:34 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2988:9e27:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 22:00 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lnd 22:01 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:04 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10 -!- jonatack [~jon@134.19.179.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #lnd 22:22 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-forks 22:35 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@186.213.91.147] has joined #lnd 22:38 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@unaffiliated/dermoth] has joined #lnd 22:52 < Emcy> https://de.catbox.moe/nlk29d.jpg i love this website 22:56 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, there's only 3 main variants iirc 22:56 < phantomcircuit> one of them is actually less deadly but more virulent 22:57 < Emcy> it was never deadly 22:57 < Emcy> but the virulence is a problem 23:02 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, i mean 2% cfr is pretty deadly 23:03 < Emcy> its not 2% 23:05 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, the cfr is actually that high, the ifr is lower 23:05 < Emcy> >The current best estimate of the CFR for COVID-19 according to the Johns Hopkins University is 2.1% in the US.[11] 23:05 < Emcy> fuck 23:05 < phantomcircuit> that means confirmed cases the fatality rate is 2% 23:05 < phantomcircuit> the 'estimated' infection fatality rate is lower... but not much 23:06 < phantomcircuit> it's like 1.4% 23:07 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, yeah, 2.1% in a country with access to advanced care 23:08 < phantomcircuit> im sure it's much much worse in other places 23:09 < Emcy> not sure id class the US as 'access' to advanced care 23:17 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, it's only very recently that ICU beds have been full 23:26 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 23:26 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-forks 23:28 < pipilainen> such things much also be dependent on population age and obesity levels 23:32 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd 23:34 -!- lesless [~lessless@obligatory.vehicle.volia.net] has joined #lnd 23:37 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@p4fd5a5cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lnd --- Log closed Tue Dec 15 00:00:49 2020