--- Log opened Sun Dec 20 00:00:52 2020
00:01 < Emcy> >you lumpen parasite
00:01 < Emcy> haha nice, first encounter with a reddit commie or what
00:02 < Emcy> that leopardseatface sub is part of their sphere for sure
00:04 < Emcy> a lot of it is the chapo diaspora
00:04 < midnight> that's um. tcatm right?
00:05 < Emcy> reddit admins are stupid so they think banning huge, hardcore subs removes its users from the mix permanently
00:05 < midnight> Emcy: which sub..?
00:05 < Emcy> its more like lancing a huge boil without any tissue paper handy.....
00:06 < Emcy> midnight https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/kdzs0h/im_all_in_with_politicizing_masks/gg0bgnb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
00:06 < midnight> oh..  I see. the sub is gone now
00:06 < midnight> oh
00:06 < Emcy> the other was was i think r/chapotraphouse
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00:08 < Emcy> it used to be full of the most violent revolutionary rhetoric, and the only reason it lasted so long was because of reddit staffers biases
00:12 < midnight> bitcoincharts is tcatm isn't it..?
00:12 < midnight> I forget now.
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00:13 < midnight> I seem to recall he was a reasonable fellow.
00:15 < midnight> "PLEASE DO NOT POST ACTUAL DEPICTIONS OF VIOLENCE OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MAULED BY ANIMALS ESPECIALLY IF THE ANIMALS ARE NOT LEOPARDS" awesome
00:17 < Emcy> i think i mentioned before that one faction was evil for politicising mask usage, and the other was stupid for falling for it
00:18 < Emcy> 'if only people would wear masks!' rings hollow when you went and turned it into a tribal signifier. what did you think would happen?
00:23 < nkuttler> making mask wearing in public socially acceptable is a huge win for privacy
00:25 < Emcy> yes
00:26 < gmaxwell> https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/84370/bitmain-bitcoin-spinoff-fight-end
00:26 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ Bitmain set to spin out business lines in bid to end the bitcoin mining giant's ... ]
00:29 < Emcy> wow
00:30 < nkuttler> wow invasive ad indeed
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00:32 < Emcy> so jihan gets the asic mfr side and his partner/rival gets the bitcoin mining operations
00:32 < Emcy> and also this little escapade cost them 13 billion dollar sin valuation is that right
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00:37 < gmaxwell> "
00:37 < gmaxwell> Wu will take BitDeer, BTC.com and the overseas mining farms, according to the article. His rival co-founder Zhan will formally return to take charge of Bitmain's manufacturing and AI businesses, Antpool, and domestic mining farms."
00:38 < Emcy> o i got the names backwards
00:39 < Emcy> still sounds like zahn ends up with the lions share of the bitcoin hashrate?
00:39 < gmaxwell> because of chinese names the article doesn't use the names we'd normally use.
00:39 < gmaxwell> unclear but he ends up with the hardware business.
00:40 < Emcy> he gets antpool and the mainland hash mines
00:40 < Emcy> never heard of bitdeer, and i dont know what kind of foreign mining ops bitmain has
00:42 < Emcy> in any case, bitmains hashrate becomes fractured into two significant entities nominally competing against each other, this is good for bitcoin
00:43 < Emcy> a rare case of mining deconsolidation caused by incompetence and egos lol
00:45 < Emcy> all thats needed now is the pro ipo investor lawsuits for wiping 13bn value lol
00:46 < midnight> maybe this other guy will be more cooperative
00:46 < Emcy> well perhaps he will be less antagonistic at least
00:47 < Emcy> at the end of the day though both of them are still ccp subjects, if china decides to become an antagonist
00:48 < Emcy> but for now perhaps this was good timing re: taproot
00:50  * midnight shrugs
00:51 < midnight> douchebasgs gonna douche
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02:31 < gmaxwell> when new ath???
02:31 < gmaxwell> bored now
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03:03 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
03:03 < deb0rah> binance 0.01480000 [+7.22%] | bittrex 0.01475170 [+6.73%] | southxchange 0.01485624 [+7.62%] | livecoin 0.01438296 [+4.17%] | hitbtc 0.01480400 [+7.30%] | bleutrade 0.01200000 [-6.98%] | graviex 0.01533916 [+11.73%] | poloniex 0.01480639 [+7.41%] | kraken 0.01479000 [+7.17%] |
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03:24 < queip> booooooooooooooooring
03:24 < queip> gmaxwell could you post with luke and others that you are all moving to bcash or smth
03:24 < queip> it's getting hard to accumulate stats. plus at least some action
03:25 < Emcy> oh damn my thinkpad power cable has green goo rot
03:25 < Emcy> damn it, genuine ones are not easy to find anymore
03:25 < Emcy> this is the second time the green goo has gotten me
03:26 < gmaxwell> fluffypony wrote me tonight to comment that someone is going around spreading some rumor that bitcoin developers are secretly contributing to some shitcoin that the rumor spreaders are pumping.
03:26 < gmaxwell> green goo rot?
03:26 < Emcy> yes, its literally turning into green goo
03:27 < Emcy> its the plasticiser falling out of whatever chemical structures make up the kind of plastic they make bendy power cables from
03:27 < Emcy> and transforming into goo
03:28 < queip> so much for permanent plastic, another ecomyth debuuuunked
03:29 < Emcy> https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/untitled.21177/full didnt you ever see this stuff when rewiring all your 100 year old wiring that was in your house
03:29 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (800 x 449) ]
03:30 < Emcy> also thats pretty nice of fluffy to keepa ear out for you like that
03:30 < queip> WTF
03:30 < queip> no
03:30 < queip> Emcy: what are you doing these plastics out of in UK
03:30 < queip> maybe they should start making shopping bags from ibm thinkapds power cables tho
03:31 < Emcy> all plastics de-plasticise eventually
03:31 < Emcy> thats not the same as biodegradable lol
03:31 < Emcy> the mail tubs i had outside for months over summer got so brittle in the sun that they just fell apart like dry crackers
03:32 < gmaxwell> wow, I've never seen cables do that, I think.
03:32 < Emcy> rly
03:33 < queip> I never seen anything like it
03:33 < Emcy> this is the decond time a laptop power cable has gone gooey on me
03:33 < gmaxwell> I have had some thinkpad tables get stiff as they get older though.. but never emitting green goo.
03:33 < queip> lol I was also typing that they can get siff. or at most crumble I gueees
03:33 < Emcy> apparently the goo starts on the inside, you ony see it if the sheath is split
03:34 < queip> were you submerging your room in oil? like some miners
03:34 < Emcy> no i was not
03:34 < gmaxwell> I've cut apart many power cables, still never seen green goo that I can recall.
03:35 < queip> Emcy probably thinks it's normal, while he has home infested with slime mold xd
03:35 < Emcy> my house is not full of mould
03:36 < gmaxwell> I notice googling that a lot of the hits are UK
03:36 < Emcy> i got one spot of mould in the stairwell high where i cant reach it
03:37 < Emcy> hmm. maybe its some additive that stops the goo in the US, but its banned here?
03:37 < Emcy> http://natural-spark.co.uk/img/green.png
03:37 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ png (865 x 682) ]
03:37 < Emcy> uk....
03:37 < gmaxwell> "It is understood that this phenomenon is most prevalent where pvc cables manufactured between 1965 and 1971 have been used"
03:38 < gmaxwell> hm, it might be more common in the uk due to higher voltages, e.g. using insultion with a higher rating.
03:39 < Emcy> yea that might be it
03:39 < gmaxwell> I see au and nz pages too.
03:39 < Emcy> hmm
03:39 < queip> Poland also 220V and this doesn't happen
03:39 < queip> well, 230
03:39 < Emcy> all places where queen Elizabeth is still head of state
03:39 < Emcy> pretty suspicious
03:40 < queip> maybe it's the Royal Jelly
03:40 < gmaxwell> "- The green exudate is mildly toxic and can cause burning and irritation, especially to mucous membranes such as in the eyes, nose and mouth.
03:40 < gmaxwell> - There has been no epidemiological link established with cancer in humans. "
03:41 < gmaxwell> in poland perhaps you'd call it something different.
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03:41 < gmaxwell> I think in america we would call it "green goo" or "green slime"
03:41 < Emcy> well now you know to keep a lookout for green goo at least
03:42 < Emcy> it might be a telltale of overheating cables too
03:42 < Emcy> heat speeds up the process
03:43 < gmaxwell> "The chemical di-octyl phthalate has been found in research to be toxic. It was banned in the USA in 1994; for use as a plasticiser in childrens toys. It is still used in Europe."
03:44 < Emcy> yeah thats probably it
03:44 < gmaxwell> sounds like uk had some temp ratings requirement that caused the use of this paricular process.
03:44 < gmaxwell> and additional the US has banned it in at least some applications.
03:45 < gmaxwell> I can't say for sure that I've NEVER encountered it, but certantly not recently or commonly.
03:45 < Emcy> you might have some in your house if youve still got some real old wiring
03:45 < Emcy> doesnt sound like it really causes a problem though
03:46 < Emcy> as long as you leave it alone
03:46 < Emcy> kinda like asbestos
03:46 < Victorsueca> I thought EU was the one that usually had stricter safety guidelines and banned chemicals if they had any suspicion they could be toxic
03:46 < gmaxwell> yeah, sees harmless, don't eat it.
03:48 < gmaxwell> Victorsueca: dunno I think they're just different. US bans tons of chemicals in consumer products...
03:49 < gmaxwell> you hear about the stuff that doesn't get banned but probably should have been.
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03:52 < Emcy> >next stop is 500 usd.
03:52 < Emcy> if this hits then its straight to 1000 usd
03:52 < Emcy> >Call me crazy but it is still possible to break 2000 usd/bch by the end of this year even though there are not too many days left anymore.
03:52 < Emcy> what are they hotboxing in there?
03:53 < Emcy> >BCH bottom should be $4600...
03:54 < queip> I knew I read this before
03:54 < queip>  phthalate
03:55 < queip> here blogger turns a phthalate from plastic/latex gloves into grape-flavoured drink - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFZ5jQ0yuNA
03:57 < Emcy> >Bitcoin's Inception: A 340-Page Book Compiles All of Satoshi's Writings in Chronological Order
03:57 < Victorsueca> Unexpected NileRed, I think I watched pretty much all his videos
03:57 < Emcy> finally they have an actual scripture to refer to for all questions and concepts they come across
03:57 < Emcy> >includes 3 unreleased satoshi emails
03:58 < Emcy> i bet that hearn again
04:00 < queip> Victorsueca: - ok so should I make educational vids... or just start an easy cooking show?  - yes.
04:02 < Emcy> start a polism asmr channel make megabucks
04:03 < gmaxwell> '3 unreleased satoshi emails' -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Israel#Literary_forgery
04:03 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ Lee Israel - Wikipedia ]
04:04 < queip> perfect guy for 4ch conspiracy thread tho
04:09 < queip> it's all phthalate -> Because they are not chemically bonded to the host plastics, phthalates are released from the plastic article by relatively gentle means. For example, they can be removed by heating or by extraction with organic solvents.
04:10 < queip> Lower-molecular-weight ... why it's often a problem making substance more toxic/carcinogenic?   are they too small and are like "dust" that e.g. gets into this units that replicate DNA/RNA or smth?
04:11 < gmaxwell> Emcy: it's funny to see them getting all foamy about bch/btc ratio when it's merely gone back to where it was three days ago.
04:11 < Emcy> the cope is strong
04:12 < Emcy> still cant undo the fact it hit a new atl lol
04:12 < gmaxwell> I wonder who's foolish enough to buy into these pumps?
04:16 < Emcy> well i actually know someone who thinking 'stacking sats' means daytrading shitcoins to turn into sats
04:16 < Emcy> at least hes smart enough to actually exit into btc
04:17 < Emcy> >a Noël Coward expert insisted that Coward would not have referenced his homosexual activities so enthusiastically in letters at a time when such behavior would be punished with a prison sentence.
04:17 < Emcy> lol busted
04:21 < Emcy> lol her forged letters are genuinely valuable in themselves now, for being notorious forgeries
04:21 < Emcy> nice
04:24 < gmaxwell> new theory of value for bcash!  notorious forgery!
04:26 < Emcy> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
04:26 < Emcy> yes, as good an explanation as any for why its not zero dollars
04:28 < Emcy> >Hi, my name is Elong Mask and I sold my Bitcoin for the more useful Bitcoin Cash today. Whoever pumped Bitcoin is stupid enough to give me more money to buy more Bitcoin Cash.
04:29 < Emcy> speaking of knockoffs
04:38 < Emcy> >Dutch government bans air travel from UK after discovering virus variant
04:39 < Emcy> this is exactly what happened in the 28 days trilogy
04:43 < Emcy> nearly the entire country is on 'tier 4' or tier 3 lockdown now as of last night AKA "christmas is cancelled kids"
04:43 < Emcy> >No-one in tier four will be allowed to join Christmas Day bubbles in tiers one to three
04:43 < Emcy> what the fuck does this even mean
04:46 < Emcy> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518
04:46 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Covid: What are the new tiers and lockdown rules in England, Scotland, Wales and... ]
04:46 < Emcy> they cannot hope to communicate this fucking D&D rulebook of a tier system to the entire country effectively. Or even to the police meant to be enforcing it
04:47 < Emcy> theres just no way
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05:12 < queip> if only we could QR with "people tires" onto people like some tattoo or RFID implant
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06:21 < gmaxwell> "I would donate $5 to WikiLeaks. But with a next block fee of $7 it is ridicoulus to expect small amounts of donation. Could someone tell them to accept Bitcoin Cash?" -- wtf, why does it matter if a _donation_ makes it in the next block?
06:23 < gmaxwell> ... also at the time that post was made 4s/vb transactions were clearing.
06:24 < gmaxwell> which is more like 25 cents than $7.
06:27 < Emcy> same reason they dont understand that you dont *have* to pay any suggested fee rate, unless youre using a shitty wallet that strongarms you
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06:45 < Emcy> >Trending in United Kingdom
06:45 < Emcy> #christmasisnotcancelled
06:45 < Emcy> 1,933 Tweets
06:45 < Emcy> people are fairly upset at the short notice
06:46 < gmaxwell> did people not expect this?
06:47 < gmaxwell> we were told like 8 months ago. Covid winter bad.
06:49 < Emcy> well it was all originally scheduled for after boxing day, but theyve just announced the lockdowns have been brought forwards and christmas is cancelled
06:50 < Emcy> also there are 3 or 4 stories on the front of the bcc about this 'new strain', maybe theres something theyre not really telling us
06:50 < Emcy> maybe theyve just been told the R number is like 5 with it or something
06:51 < queip> gmaxwell: being forced into home arrest also bad
06:52 < gmaxwell> I'm not saying good or bad, just saying: expected.
06:52 < queip> govs do such a good job of avoiding the solution that combines freedom to take risks with freedom to decrease likehood of getting infected: local selective rules, move into high-isolation or low-isolation zone if it is very important for you, everyone happy (minus husstle with moving)
06:53 < Veggen> Emcy: it is apparently about 70% more contagious, they say. Which translates to much higher R.
06:53 < Emcy> gmaxwell winter effect was expected, cancelling christmas on december the 20th was not expected
06:54 < Emcy> Veggen where did you read that
06:54 < queip> many expected they will do exception for christmas. they did exceptions when it benfited them in various countries (e.g. not closing churches when most of supporters see churches as important)
06:55 < gmaxwell> fucking politicos are too cowardly. they keep doing lockdown shit at the last minute because they can't handle saying "even though hospitals aren't full yet, we can do math"
06:55 < queip> forward-thinking abilities of a child
06:56 < Emcy> gmaxwell all of them are sweating balls right now
06:56 < Veggen> Emcy: they say so in norwegian news.
06:56 < Emcy> if people erupt in frustration they dont have the manpower to handle it
06:57 < Veggen> gmaxwell: we have sort of strict but not lockdown, now. I'd be for a lockdown on january 2nd for at least two weeks - because we know that after christmas, numbers will rise.
06:57 < Veggen> ...and the problem is, 1 week later we will know we should have initiated stricter rules then :)
07:01 < Emcy> Veggen panic time is when theres a strain thats that much more virulent, and mutates enough that the new vaccines cant target it
07:02 < Emcy> i read that that doesnt seem to be likely at the moment but who knows
07:02 < Emcy> what does the world even look like after that?
07:02 < Emcy> its like if AIDS became airborne
07:02 < queip> like minecraft no-rules anarchist server's spawn point, but in minecraft
07:03 < Emcy> dibs on Lord Humoungous
07:04 < Veggen> Emcy: well, most of the vaccines target things that are pretty generic in the corona virus. the spikes.
07:05 < gmaxwell> the vaccines don't target the virus at all.
07:05 < gmaxwell> They target the human. The human targets the virus.
07:06 < Veggen> well, true.
07:06 < Emcy> yes but now thats the part that is under the most selection pressure is it not
07:06 < gmaxwell> We can make synthetic antibodies too... I expected to see monoclonal antibody treatments before vaccines, but they managed to make the vaccines pretty quickly.
07:08 < Veggen> from what I hear of norwegian plans, we should be more or less done with vaccination before early summer.
07:08 < Emcy> so to be clear, antibodies are small inert 'tag' particles that adhere tot he spike protien and show the macrophages what to eat right
07:09 < Veggen> ...with me and my SO being in the last age-prioritized group, just before they say "ok, now the rest can go get it".
07:10 < Veggen> so, I guess I can hope for april, but by then the vaccine should have lowered the pressure significantly already.
07:10 < queip> Emcy: according to krutzekampf videos, yes
07:10 < gmaxwell> Emcy: yeah, thats how antibodies work.
07:10 < Emcy> ok
07:11 < gmaxwell> Emcy: they're like neon colored cell phone covers,  your body spams them out and they stick to stuff and whatever they stick to goes and gets swept up.
07:17 < Emcy> yea
07:17 < Emcy> i oculdnt remember whether antibodies were the inert or active part of immune response then
07:17 < Emcy> well passive, not inert
07:18 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/whiterose_lady/status/1340671157629038596
07:19 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/IndiaMcKinney3/status/1340662180459532294 why the fuck would someone tweet this?
07:20 < Emcy> some weird spam/scam account i guess
07:21 < ossifrage> they really liked tweeting that image over and over
07:22 < Emcy> gmaxwell i was thinking about what you said about the little library boxes and how i might be surprised if it doesnt get ransacked
07:22 < Emcy> i ralised that actually im already surprised that i havent had anything stolen from the mailboxes on my front porch yet, since i started doing it in march
07:23 < Emcy> not even so much by random people, but from the many different delivery people whove seen first hand what ive got out there, even the few ive argued with out of a window
07:23 < Emcy> nothing has gone missing yet. I really thought it would.
07:23 < Emcy> i was prepared for some losses
07:26 < gmaxwell> Emcy: sometimes antibodies interfear with the operation directly, sometimes they only tag, AFAIK its just random.
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07:26 < gmaxwell> like if the antibody binds really strongly to the right locations then the thing its binding to won't work anymore.
07:26 < gmaxwell> but if it binds weakly or to the wrong location, it'll still work.
07:27 < Emcy> yeah i just read that. i suppose gumming up the spike protien well enough to stop it working is what folding@home is doing
07:28 < Emcy> so ill continue folding
07:28 < gmaxwell> what idiot has 12 million pounds in a bank account?
07:28 < gmaxwell> do banks over there magically pay high interest or something?
07:29 < Emcy> nope lucky to get .5% on a current account
07:31 < gmaxwell> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340678358456274948?s=21 oooh bpy
07:32 < Emcy> *heavy breathing*
07:33 < Emcy> is there 100bn market depth in bitcoin? i dont think so
07:34 < gmaxwell> well you can buy any amount, it's just a question of what price you end up with.
07:34 < gmaxwell> you could spend 100 billion but you'll end up with exponenitlaly fewer coins as you go...
07:35 < Emcy> yeah i know people spread out the huge buys
07:35 < gmaxwell> market buy --fiat 100000000000
07:35 < gmaxwell> ;;market buy --fiat 100000000000
07:35 < Emcy> but thats like years of of buying surely
07:35 <@gribble> Bitstamp | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 1422.0363 bitcoins for a total of 254196230.3332 USD and take the price to 1000000000.0000. | Data vintage: 16.8812 seconds
07:36 < Emcy> lol
07:36 < gmaxwell> ;;market buy --fiat --market coinbase 100000000000
07:36 <@gribble> Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'btsp', 'btcn', 'krk', 'gdax', 'wex', 'gem', 'bfx', 'btce'].
07:36 < gmaxwell> ;;market buy --fiat --market gdax 100000000000
07:36 <@gribble> Error: Failure to retrieve order book data. Try again later.
07:36 < gmaxwell> ;;market buy --fiat --market bfx 100000000000
07:36 <@gribble> Bitfinex | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 2820.6879 bitcoins for a total of 94500995.1316 USD and take the price to 103820000.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0113 seconds
07:36 < gmaxwell> glad to know gribble can still quote btce.
07:39 < Emcy> seems like msot exchanges have 1500-2k btc on sale
07:39 < Emcy> so no there is not 100bn total in the market
07:39 < Emcy> idk about non public channels
07:40 < Emcy> i read hte real whales dont deal with the public markets often
07:41 < Emcy> musk really should dump a bn on it though, that would be ok and make everyone concerned happy
07:44 < gmaxwell> there are more coins in the market than are on the books, fwiw.
07:45 < Emcy> yes i heard abot that but dont know anything about it
07:45 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340581313406001153 haha did you see this
07:45 < Emcy> elons at it again
07:47 < gmaxwell> yeah that was the top of the thread I linked to above.
07:47 < gmaxwell> 10:31 < gmaxwell> when new ath???
07:47 < gmaxwell> 10:31 < gmaxwell> bored now
07:47 < gmaxwell> maybe my prayer gets answered.
07:48 < Emcy> its real hard to brows twitter threads without an account now
07:48 < Emcy> especially replies
07:48 < grubles> does nitter.net work
07:48 < grubles> i linked to it the other day
07:49 < grubles> https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1340581313406001153#m
07:49 < Emcy> o this is nice
07:49 < Emcy> wow no javascript
07:50 < grubles> yeah it's nice
07:50 < Emcy> https://i.4cdn.org/biz/1608478605423.jpg this appears to be fake lol
07:51 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (754 x 580) ]
07:51 < Emcy> did someone pm me
07:52 < gmaxwell> that 4chan link is the thread I linked to.
07:52 < grubles> no it's not fake
07:52 < gmaxwell> yeah, its on twitter
07:52 < Emcy> i dont even see the final reply on twitter
07:52 < grubles> https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1340679387998527489
07:52 < Emcy> https://boards.4channel.org/biz/thread/24985360 this is what i saw
07:52 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ /biz/ - its real - Business & Finance - 4chan ]
07:53 < gmaxwell> twitter has to give everyone a different view to maximize chaos and hate
07:53 < Emcy> i think they really are doing that
07:55 < gmaxwell> don't assume malice when stupidity is sufficient...
07:57 < Emcy> only insofar as the malice itself is stupid
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07:58 < grubles> twitter does a few wonky things unintentionally (i think at least) like unfollowing people for you
07:58 < Emcy> i dont think thats unintentional
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08:00 < grubles> they also un-like things you've liked in the past
08:01 < Emcy> maybe their database is just an unholy mess then
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08:01 < grubles> yeah i've heard that as an explanation
08:01 < grubles> they apparently are moving a component or two to AWS
08:01 < Emcy> id seen people complaining about the unfollwing 'bug' a lot of times before, but it always seemed suspiciously targetted
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08:02 < grubles> then there's the shadowban stuff
08:02 < Emcy> yeah that happens
08:05 < gmaxwell> I saw a post once from someone at twitter talking about the engineers basically playing corewars against each other
08:05 < gmaxwell> one group forbid any software written in go another group wrote something in go
08:05 < gmaxwell> then the first group ended up writing a tool to log into the servers and kill any process written in go
08:05 < gmaxwell> and so on.
08:05 < Emcy> lol
08:05 < gmaxwell> I think that basically explains almost anything you see twitter do
08:06 < Emcy> so imagine how much trouble we all be in if they were actually competent
08:06 < gmaxwell> it's like that said "We heard that other companies have finite amounts of dysfunction. Well fuck that. At twitter, we will have infinite fucking dysfunction."
08:07 < Emcy> it makes sense. as far as i can tell dorsey is like an absent father
08:07 < Emcy> i dont think hes actually in charge
08:08 < Emcy> to some extent all the tech companies seem to be like that, they have to find out from first principles why eschewing shot callers in business often leads to chaos
08:09 < Emcy> even the prototypical example of flat org charts, Valve corp, who famously have no org chat at all [except when gaben puts his foot down sometimes] have some crazy workplace stories that have leaked out
08:11 < gmaxwell> well no structure tends to lead to Lord of the Flies.
08:12 < Emcy> https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Valve-Corporation-RVW32645061.htm
08:12 < Emcy> yes thats the word from inside valve, there are cliques
08:14 < Emcy> >- The flat structure is somewhat a sham. There is a badly hidden hierarchy, and at the top are some very smart people, but there are also some bullies who do whatever they want
08:15 < waxwing> it's always the way though, even with apparently clear hierarchies of job titles, people form fiefdoms and there's a *real* way things get done separate from what it says on paper
08:15 < waxwing> better to be explicit? probably yeah, i'll give you that.
08:18 < Emcy> https://is2.4chan.org/biz/1608479431130.png
08:18 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ png (667 x 936) ]
08:18 < gmaxwell> yeah, 'structureless' companies CAN be fine, -- if the implicit structure that forms is a good one.
08:18 < gmaxwell> but there will be a structure, so washing your hands of it just means you're not taking responsiblity for the one that forms sucking.
08:19 < Emcy> it shows in product too
08:19 < Emcy> example, what happened to steamOS and steam machines
08:19 < Emcy> what happened? no one knows
08:21 < Emcy> they have a history of just dropping products, exactly as if they just decided they were bored of them now
08:21 < Emcy> and they also do things like release a new half life game out of nowhere, apropos of nothing [event hough it was excellent]
08:21 < Emcy> its just strange
08:23 < grubles> they make too much $$$ off other games to warrant creating more of their own
08:23 < grubles> the alyx thing was probably a way to get people to buy the Index
08:24 < Emcy> yes thats certainly what happened. in that case its bizarre that Alyx was so good. And its also bizarre that no one talks about it anymore now
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08:26 < Emcy> they just make so much money all day every day regardless of what they do that theyve become like an eccentric aristo or something
08:27 < grubles> they have SteamVR now too
08:27 < grubles> which is in a way similar to SteamOS
08:28 < Emcy> i mean the steamOS initiative was in response to UWP iirc
08:28 < grubles> what's UWP?
08:28 < Emcy> its the thing microsoft tried to push to replace win32 runtime
08:30 < Emcy> theyre still tepidly trying to get away from windows. They hired a guy to worked on their fork of WINE called 'Proton' and upstream the development they do back to wine, mostly around modern graphic api support
08:30 < Emcy> i think theyre largely responsible for DXVK
08:32 < Emcy> they have one guy in the company who is still looking after their steam link initiative, since they dropped the hardware product [even though it was the best 'remote HDMI' device on the market regardless of gaming] and turned it into a software app instead
09:16 < grubles> hmm tor's signing key has expired?
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09:19 < grubles> gpg: Signature made Mon 14 Dec 2020 06:59:14 PM UTC
09:19 < grubles> gpg: using RSA key EB774491D9FF06E2
09:19 < grubles> gpg: Good signature from "Tor Browser Developers (signing key) " [ultimate]
09:19 < grubles> gpg: Note: This key has expired!
09:20 < Emcy> did they really forget
09:23 < qubenix> grubles: https://support.torproject.org/tbb/how-to-verify-signature/ , check the "Fetching Tor Developers key" section. Should expire 2025, maybe you need to refresh.
09:23 < Entitlement> qubenix - [ How can I verify Tor Browser's signature? | Tor Project | Support ]
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10:31 < midnight> gmaxwell: monoclonal has unknown (potentially limiting) effects on vaccine. monoclonal treatments are 90-day exclusionary conditions. :(
10:31 < midnight> https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-12/COVID-03-Mbaeyi.pdf
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15:38 < queip> #namecoin <Jeremy_Rand_Talos (HackInt)> yanmaani, more like "the Bitconnect guys are now backing BSV"
15:39 < phantomcircuit> midnight, so trump literally cannot be vaccinated
15:42 < gmaxwell> anyone have a link to the ledger leak data?
15:44 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, you just get an haveibeenpwned notice too
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15:48 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it doesn't seem to be anywhere that's google crawled at least
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16:11 < gmaxwell> comments on reddit suggest someone had linked to it there, but the posts were removed.
16:13 < DeanWeen> supposedly there was a torrent iirc
16:14 < DeanWeen> I could be misunderrembering though
16:14 < gmaxwell> got it
16:19 < queip> Roger tries to con Musk - https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/1340799990013300736   (seeing how Musk knows a lot about running scams like HyperLoop, I'm rather optimistic, but anything can happen)
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16:24 < gmaxwell> So much for hearn's claim to have dumped all his bitcoin, he's in the ledger sales files.
16:24 < DeanWeen> don't they store a bunch of altcoins too?
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16:42 < belcher> a great thing about software wallets is they're much easier to obtain anonymously, just download them (via tor if required)
16:43 < belcher> i always advise people to use a multisig wallet instead of a hardware wallet, for example a 2of2 electrum multisig with one seed on a computer and the other on a smartphone
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16:46 < belcher> i suspect a major reason hardware wallets are more common (at least on the internet) is that hardware wallets have a marketing budget
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16:47 < queip> belcher: though they ARE good against easily avoiding getting device hacked
16:48 < queip> for daily use, e.g. on the go
16:48 < belcher> even so there's scary stuff they dont protect again, for example how do you know the manufacturer or someone along their supply chain modified them so they dont actually produce random seeds but just provide a big list of pre-generated seeds, and now those people can watch the corresponding bitcoin addresses fill up and do a massive exit scam years later
16:49 < belcher> you can protect against that with multisig... but if you're already using multisig you could just do it with normal hardware rather than that device
16:49 < belcher> who uses bitcoin on the go? its only practical to pay stuff with it if you use LN, and LN isnt supported by hardware wallets
16:50 < belcher> electrum multisig with computer + smartphone is a fairly smooth spending experience, theres the keysigner plugin which automatically encrypts and sends the tx to the other device, you can also transfer with qr codes
16:52 < queip> belcher: yes I know about this, but probably simply getting device hacked is more popular
16:53 < midnight> phantomcircuit: did he get mab? I thought it was just remdesivir (which does basically nothing).
16:53 < queip> use 2-of-2  between normal device and trezored one
16:53 < midnight> What? ledger leak?
16:54 < grubles> the stolen database was made public
16:54 < midnight> Like. Ledger the hardware wallet manufac?
16:55 < queip> yea. pretty embarassing for security company, ikr
16:55 < midnight> What the fuck kind of morons keep customer data where the internet can get at it.
16:56 < queip> basically everyone
16:57 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, dr-orlovsky, Veggen, bitconner, lypsis, StopAndDecrypt, jonatack, greypw, dermoth, ctrlbreak
16:57 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: wxss, EmmyNoether, Veggen, StopAndDecrypt, ctrlbreak
16:58 < belcher> queip idk it seems like getting both your smartphone and PC hacked is really unlikely
16:58 < belcher> most "hacks" are actually phishing anyway
16:58 < queip> belcher: if someone targets you then they will hack all your online devices
16:59 < gmaxwell> 00:48 < belcher> even so there's scary stuff they dont protect again, for example how do you know the manufacturer or someone along their supply chain modified them so they dont actually produce random seeds but just provide a big list of pre-generated seeds, and now those people can watch the corresponding bitcoin addresses fill up and do a massive exit scam years later
17:00 < gmaxwell> yeah, it's also trivial to modify signing code to leak secret data in the signatures... so even if you generate your own seed with dice and verify it actually uses it...
17:00 < belcher> yep, open source doesnt help if you cant verify that this source code is actually running
17:01 < gmaxwell> ledger devices do the signing with some opaque commercial hardware security module, so even more unverifyable.
17:01 < queip> just 1 device < pc + mobile < (mobile+trezor) + pc < mobile + (pc+trezor) < offline-pc + offline-pc < offline-pc + (pc+trezor) < offline-pc + (offline-pc+trezor)
17:01 < belcher> queip the thing with adding trezor is you add your mail address to someone's database that then gets leaked
17:01 < midnight> How can you use trezor without a pc?
17:01 < gmaxwell> personally I think HW wallets should never be used without multisig, but unfortunately multisig isn't well supported and also adds fees.
17:02 < queip> belcher: dunno about you larpers but I acquired mine physically from manufacturer ;)
17:02 < gmaxwell> also the standard software for all these hardware wallets is a total panopticon webwallet
17:02 < belcher> thats nice but not scalable
17:02 < queip> belcher: trains have high capacity xd
17:02 < belcher> i dont use any HW device but supposedly coldcard is the best for multisig
17:02 < belcher> you could do coldcard + regular PC
17:02 < belcher> or smartphone
17:02 < belcher> in the multisig
17:03 < grubles> i wish you could do what armory could do but with core
17:03 < belcher> whats that?
17:03 < grubles> export watch only wallet, create unsigned txs from the online device, sign them on the offline one, etc
17:03 < grubles> ...easily
17:04 < queip> local electrum can be configured to use localhost node, and to use your trezor, afaik
17:04 < grubles> yeah but i just want to use core
17:04 < queip> core is working on such support for HW wallets right?
17:05 < grubles> i'm not even talking about using a hww
17:05 < grubles> just one online core, one offline
17:05 < gmaxwell> grubles: thats what the gui psbt support is for. should be pretty easy now.
17:05 < midnight> gmaxwell: did you find a link?
17:05 < gmaxwell> you don't export a watch only, but you can use an encrypted wallet and just never unlock it online.
17:05 < gmaxwell> midnight: yes I have the data.
17:06 < belcher> grubles electrum does that
17:06 < belcher> it even has qr codes for transfering
17:06 < grubles> gmaxwell: what gui
17:06 < grubles> belcher: yeah true
17:06 < grubles> i just want core though
17:07 < gmaxwell> grubles: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16944
17:07 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ gui: create PSBT with watch-only wallet by Sjors · Pull Request #16944 · bitcoin... ]
17:07 < midnight> gmaxwell: Lemme finish my download: I'll send you a hash for the one I found.
17:07 < queip> belcher: also building own trezor is supposed to be quite ez
17:08 < grubles> gmaxwell: ohh nice
17:10 < queip> midnight: without a pc? you use trezor with your mobile
17:10 < gmaxwell> queip: and identify alll your transactions to trezors servers.
17:10 < queip> trezor + mobile (over usb-go) accessed from Electrum, Mycelium, ...
17:10 < grubles> so much shitcoin spam in the PR sheesh
17:11 < queip> gmaxwell: all in given account, yes\
17:11 < midnight> you can use a trezor with a mobile device? ohh.. android?
17:11 < gmaxwell> grubles: I hate that. :( its one of the things that makes me not like working on bitcoin stuff anymore-- that you cannot escape constantly getting shitcoin spam.
17:12 < midnight> gmaxwell:  92e1c0c9a57719db8bfc66742e4b1dad6e32feffb8f518e27248654956f90764 ?
17:12 < gmaxwell> midnight: is that a hash of? I didn't keep the rar around
17:12 < midnight> gmaxwell: hash of the rar.
17:12 < grubles> gmaxwell: wtf is syscoin anyway no one even cares about that
17:13 < queip> c h a i n l i n k
17:13 < queip> they have the maximum spam nowdays
17:13 < midnight> 47053d5d52f6e8a5333d42c3bdaea4cfe787ec5219fa15966733ab6921f01b6d and 54843ec27f62550d63d365d231c3ba7939b8bd4dea4a0cf3f327e08992e955eb ?
17:13 < queip> gmaxwell: quickly, write program to re-pack it in all possible ways to chefck
17:14 < phantomcircuit> midnight, trump got monoclonal antibodies
17:15 < midnight> phantomcircuit: He's not supposed to get the vaccine, mab is contraindicator to be safe.
17:15 < gmaxwell> 47053d5d52f6e8a5333d42c3bdaea4cfe787ec5219fa15966733ab6921f01b6d  All Emails (Subscription).txt
17:15 < gmaxwell> 54843ec27f62550d63d365d231c3ba7939b8bd4dea4a0cf3f327e08992e955eb  Ledger Orders (Buyers) only.txt
17:15 < midnight> gmaxwell: That data does not contain all customers postal addresses in buyers.
17:15 < queip> gmaxwell: sauce? (or keywords)
17:17 < phantomcircuit> midnight, ok that explains why he hasn't gotten it but pence has
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17:18 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, can you pm me my info in it
17:18 < midnight> phantomcircuit: oh, he didn't?  interesting.
17:18 < phantomcircuit> midnight, trump hasn't been vaccinated as far as anybody can tell
17:20 < midnight> huh.
17:25 < midnight> Yeah this data is not a complete..  Of the.. like six people who are asking me to check, not a single one is represented in the leak.
17:33 < queip> offtopic, photo related to historical events emerges - https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1608454280zbzCYKf8DHZeqXZS7pkvjc.jpg
17:33 < Entitlement> queip - [ jpeg (1080 x 1347) ]
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17:38 < midnight> queip: hah!
17:38 < midnight> queip: I like that.
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17:59 < midnight> Hah look at all those people with anonymous email addresses.
17:59  * midnight APPROVES
18:01 < grubles> nice. good on them.
18:01 < grubles> the theoretical hww dox hack actually happened
18:02 < midnight> yeah, I like it.
18:02  * midnight looks for remailers now..
18:02 < gmaxwell> there are some sad examples, like people who used fake realnames but their email address identifies them.
18:03 < midnight> Holy crap, there's a whole bunch of remailers in there.
18:03  * midnight feels lonely happy tear rolling down face.
18:06 < grubles> lol
18:07 < grubles> more speculative-y stuff about the fincen proposal https://twitter.com/jerallaire/status/1340785282979913734
18:08 < grubles> i guess guy is particularly affected because of the USDC stablecoin + ethereum defi crap
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18:18  * midnight shrugs
18:18 < midnight> yay canada
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18:21 < grubles> i'm most pissed that it was proposed on a friday evening at the cusp of the holidays while during a pandemic
18:21 < grubles> like...you complete assholes
18:25 < midnight> yeh
18:35 < ossifrage> I love the consistency of google sheets, some places ESC will exit a box and commit results, other places it discards changes
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19:29 < queip> is ther any country that has o.k. freedom for people in it (not very high/bad taxation, if possible gun rights, drugs rigs, free speech) and is NOT doing lockdowns?
19:29 < queip> soon might be the time to escape into places without crazy lockdowns, at least in Europe, especially from Poland
19:30 < queip> where you can just go and live. Working remotelly so not "stealing ur jobs hurr"
19:31 < queip> (and is not trying to force vaccination on population)
19:51 < midnight> ;;tlast --high
19:51 <@gribble> Error: Please only choose at most one result option at a time.
19:51 < midnight> ;;ticker --high
19:51 <@gribble> 24298.04
19:51 < midnight> :-o
19:51 < queip> at least one thing going o.k. in 2020
19:52 < midnight> wtf
19:56 < midnight> Trying to remember the name of that trader who was featured in.. like Wired or something.. at the last ATH who was pictured with a ledger up to his eye.
19:56 < midnight> (Emphasizing how rich he was.)
19:56 < midnight> Terrible picture.
20:09 < midnight> AHHHH HA HA HA HE WAS A SCAMMER
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22:32 < queip> kek at #bitcoin
22:32 < queip> a dude, at "request from his employer", will hack bitcoin to avoid rescanning wallet files on loading wallet files, to "save sytem resources"
22:32 < queip> he doesn't really know git all that much yet
22:32 < queip> this will surly end well
22:34 < queip> remember this when we read about a new web-wallet-like service shutting down due to crippling bugs / getting hacked  *shrug*
22:36 < gmaxwell> midnight: scammer?
23:26 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/UnderTheBreach/status/1340735356375851009
23:26 < Emcy> christ 6 figues for the ledger database
23:29 < midnight> gmaxwell: Yeah this asshole: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/the-krypto-king-of-scottsdale-john-caruso-zach-salter-and-phoenix-zima-digital-assets-11471217
23:29 < Entitlement> midnight - [ The Brief, Brazen Reign of Scottsdale's Krypto King | Phoenix New Times ]
23:32 < midnight> Emcy: geeez
23:33 < Emcy> are people really paying 6 figs for a list of addresses where they can go and break thumbs?
23:34 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/1340799990013300736 look at this ambulance chasing fool
23:34 < midnight> Emcy: apparently "someone" did.
23:35 < Emcy> midnight thas scary man. theyre gonna want ROI on that.
23:38 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/m__btc/status/1340752070849122306
23:38  * queip calls the Class Action Lawsuit Man
23:39 < queip> inventing computers was a mistake, seeing how humanity handles valuable databases
23:39 < midnight> Emcy: yeh I noticed that too: https://twitter.com/midmagic/status/1340862020371980289
23:48 < midnight> gmaxwell: I remember reading this: https://web.archive.org/web/20201026065947/https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-crypto-king
23:48 < Entitlement> midnight - [ The Crypto King | Cigar Aficionado ]
23:48 < midnight> And seeing him pose by staring through a ledger nano's hinge hole thing
23:49 < midnight> And being completely convinced there was no way this asshole made $100m by trading. it's impossible, the markets couldn't have supported it at the times he claimed to operate
--- Log closed Mon Dec 21 00:00:53 2020