--- Log opened Sat Jan 02 00:00:04 2021
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00:49 < gmaxwell> ;;tlast
00:49 <@gribble> 29907.0
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00:57 < pipilainen> I have a pizza oven in my house
01:01 < pipilainen> https://quad.pe/e/y9xRruUE6V.jpg
01:06 < nkuttler> pipilainen: that link doesn't have a valid cert and 404s..
01:07 < pipilainen> oh
01:07 < pipilainen> they fucked up
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01:33 < gmaxwell> https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kou6qf/shorting_btc/
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01:40 < pipilainen> troll?
01:49 < nkuttler> haha
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02:29 < queip> !ticker --high
02:29 <@gribble> 29990.0
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02:42 < queip> that's more cock-tease than that MILF from star trek  TNG: Insurection
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02:50 < queip> https://youtu.be/j7WDZWhMHBI?t=568
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03:43 < Veggen> wow. <0.01 is getting closer.
03:43 < Veggen> last I accidentally had some BCH to get rid of, I sold at 0.8 :)
03:43 < Veggen> eh, 0.08
03:43 < Veggen> I mean.
03:45 < Veggen> https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kos6xy/whats_the_hold_up_getting_eth_and_btc_wrapped_on/ - how about security?
04:00 < gmaxwell> well there are is no real security story on most of the ethereum btc tokens.
04:03 < Veggen> well, no. but how easy is it to roll back an ethereum transaction?
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04:05 < Veggen> BCH? Ridiculously easy, if it hadn't been for the fact that it has a proven "central authority" that will roll back transactions it doesn't agree to.
04:09 < gmaxwell> some of these tokenized bitcoin things in ethereum work by just nominating random holders of some shitty ICO token to hold other people's bitcoin.
04:10 < gmaxwell> And if they don't return it, they lose some chunk of ETH they posted (it's given to the party that lost the bitcoins).  So if the etc price relative to bitcoin falls enough there is no reason for the trustees to not just walk away with the bitcoins.
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04:32 < queip> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
04:33 < queip> !ticker --high
04:33 <@gribble> 30665.89
04:35 < gmaxwell> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kowh7c/in_this_interview_i_discussed_some_of_my_bitcoin/ I posted my bct interview on reddit but it's getting downvoted, lol.
04:35 < gmaxwell> THAT IS ONE BIG FUCKING GREEN CANDLE
04:36 < belcher> try a better title
04:37 < belcher> who is "I" for the readers? perhaps "greg maxwell inventor of coinjoin, bip32, etc"
04:37 < queip> why can't we be more like bch and number goes down
04:37 < belcher> or get someone else to post if you dont want to talk about yourself in the third person lol
04:38 < belcher> here we are at $30k, time to delete price posts in r/bitcoin/new
04:38 < gmaxwell> belcher: feel free to repost it and I'll delete mine!
04:38 < gmaxwell> yeah, I don't want to write about myself in the third person.
04:39 < gmaxwell> belcher: I was hoping to make fun of that '2005' post, by the fact that my interview starts talking about 2004.
04:40 < queip> belcher: promise to not delete mine('s friends) when 40 and 100 ;)
04:40 < gmaxwell> we need maybe 11% increase in bitcoin price to push BCH under 1%.
04:40 < belcher> i delete everything except one thread queip, to focus the shitposting and upvotes in that one thread
04:41 < queip> ok it's a deal, it will be just 1 thread from my friend then
04:41 < gmaxwell> I really like the bitcoin price memes, to be fair. After it broke 25k or whatever my and my SO spent an hour going through them. lol
04:41 < gmaxwell> I wish reddit posts could be moved to other subreddits.
04:41 < queip> xd
04:41 < queip> gmaxwell: well they canm
04:42 < belcher> i try to leave memes
04:42 < queip> gmaxwell: just post same things (not self/text but link to some blog post like minds or (((twitter))) or gabai)
04:42 < belcher> mostly delete the one line of text "OMG 30K!!!!!!"
04:42 < queip> gmaxwell: then it shows as "Other Discussions"
04:42 < gmaxwell> yeah, okay, thats good. price posts are dumb.
04:42 < gmaxwell> meme posts are sometimes really good.
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04:43 < queip> gmaxwell: send pic of you from a profile (from side), eg looking rigth. try to do the face like Trump when he is serious but victorious
04:45 < queip> !ticker --high
04:45 <@gribble> 30953.53
04:45 < queip> wow
04:45 < queip> seriously can bitcoin suck a dick
04:46 < queip> there goes my plan to rebuild my fortune slowly using my wage.
04:46 < belcher> take out loans? (only jk dont do this)
04:47 < belcher> market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent etc etc etc
04:50 < queip> according to rbtc market can stay anti-rational for like 3-4 years >_>
04:51 < queip> in reality... I guess it could. we are lucky it all worked out and popular choice in fact happens to be the secure choice. Unlike for example operating system choices
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05:55 < queip> .price bch btc
05:55 < deb0rah> binance 0.01131600 [-4.07%] | bittrex 0.01132998 [-4.00%] | southxchange 0.01143304 [-3.27%] | hitbtc 0.01131800 [-4.09%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01134857 [-4.02%] | kraken 0.01132000 [-4.23%] |
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06:25 < DeanGuss> !tlast
06:25 <@gribble> 31292.94
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06:35 < Emcy> wow
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06:36 < queip> such number
06:36 < queip> going up much?
06:36 < AndyS2> such money, doge at +50% in the last day
06:37 < queip> unlike certain trash at least it's not toxic ;)
06:40 < Emcy> .price bch btc
06:40 < deb0rah> binance 0.01122900 [-5.30%] | bittrex 0.01120763 [-5.52%] | southxchange 0.01129030 [-4.47%] | hitbtc 0.01119600 [-5.53%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01124527 [-5.20%] | kraken 0.01122000 [-5.71%] |
06:49 < Emcy> >https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kowuiy/bitcoin_finally_crosses_30000_mark_what_next/
06:49 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Bitcoin Finally Crosses 30000 Mark, What Next? : btc ]
06:49 < Emcy> >finally
06:49 < Emcy> 20k was last week lol
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06:56 < gmaxwell> it was just an hour between 30k and 31k.
06:56 < Emcy> lol this guy on r/bitcoin telling people to sell btc and buy a restaraunt business for 'income'
06:57 < Emcy> also 'tell your lover but dont tell your parents' ???
06:57 < belcher> > buying a restaraunt business in a pandemic
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06:58 < Emcy> to be fair he said AFTER the pandemic
06:58 < belcher> unless he's "buying the dip"
06:58 < Emcy> but still. restaurants fail at a huge rate, its amazing anyone bothers opening one
07:00 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kodrn2/the_final_pump_up_to_30k/ i like this one
07:00 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ The final pump up to 30K : Bitcoin ]
07:01 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kojqbo/bitcoin_maximalism_has_won/
07:01 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Bitcoin maximalism has won : Bitcoin ]
07:01 < Emcy> hes right
07:04 < queip> maybe he entered that market to CATCH FALLING KNIFES
07:05 < gmaxwell> Emcy: restruants fail at a huge rate was my thinking, not the pandemic.
07:06 < gmaxwell> and they fail due to no fault of the operator... traffic patterns change? oops you're fucked.  News runs a story that tacos are bad for your blood pressure, oops you're fucked.
07:06 < gmaxwell> restraunts are hugely cashflow intensive, so if anything goes wrong it goes wrong fast.
07:06 < Emcy> yeah its weird
07:07 < Emcy> people will always need to eat. yet eatieries go belly up all the time for a huge array of mostly unaccountable factors
07:07 < belcher> its because competition is high
07:07 < gmaxwell> also, restruants are not great for outside investors because its so easy for the operator to steal the income.
07:07 < Emcy> god i hope the thai truck is still there when i get out of this
07:08 < belcher> its the same for steel, steel is a massive part of a developed society but the steel business isnt that profitable
07:08 < Emcy> i will be PISSED if its not
07:08 < gmaxwell> Emcy: also lots of people want to run restruants and go into the business with little prospect of actually making money.
07:08 < gmaxwell> they have some idea that because their friends love their cooking or whatever that they will have a successful business.
07:09 < belcher> yeah theres a romantic fantasy side of a restaurant... you need something nobody does for fun... how about investing in sewage treatment plants :p
07:09 < Emcy> im not expert but from what ive seen actually running a restaurant is brutal
07:09 < belcher> yes
07:09 < gmaxwell> industrial automation is a big business...
07:11 < Emcy> yeah i want my robot flipped burger
07:11 < Emcy> only japan has tried to automate hot food production so ive seen so far, and theyre only doing it because they love huge robots
07:13 < queip> it's like Quake 2 for fish
07:13 < Emcy> https://youtu.be/0-bw1PujfwQ they just love robots
07:13 < Emcy> its not even about the food
07:15 < Emcy> https://youtu.be/CAJJbMs0tos
07:28 < Emcy> https://boards.4channel.org/biz/thread/25414069/ok-so-what-the-fuck-is-going-on-here the shitcoiners are flummoxed
07:28 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ /biz/ - Ok so what the fuck is going on here? Why does it - Business & Finance -... ]
07:28 < queip> oi stop using that thesaurus
07:29 < queip> >  Is China really that desperate for it to succeed?
07:29 < queip> lol what an idiot, at least it's 4 chan so I can call him a NIce gentleman that is mistaken
07:30 < grubles> have you guys even worked in a restaurant lol it's hell
07:30 < queip> grubles: I know person who did. it was quite hard work
07:30 < queip> but not super hard. well depends. should had negotiated up some upgrades to lets say, tools, and would be allright
07:31 < grubles> depends on how busy it gets
07:32 < Emcy> theres a reason line cooks are often cranked up
07:33 < queip> seems I typoed a bit. well, the gist of it is ok
07:35 < queip> lol at 4chan blocking tor. Maybe 2021 will bring a bearable open and fully privacy respecting (anti)social platform finally
07:36 < gmaxwell> 4chan: antisocial networking
07:36 < gmaxwell> lol
07:40 < Emcy> you can use tor if you buy a 4chan pass i think
07:41 < Emcy> its beyond me why anyone would pay to use 4chan though
07:41 < waxwing> what currency do you use to buy such a pass? :)
07:41 < queip> dunno why they need to archive and soon after delete everything, it makes it unusable for any more serious knowledge gathering
07:43 < queip> should put there chance to meet with Boxy or that later queen, that would be helpful
07:52 < Emcy> >We currently accept
07:52 < Emcy> Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum and Litecoin.
07:57 < queip> pretty cringe
07:58 < Veggen> noise.cash seems to be BCHs new pet social media platform, btw. Couldn't see if all of it is onchain, but likely it is. And they are pumping transactions like mad.
07:59 < queip> really the name b-trash fits perfectly, it's literally what they want to fill their BC
07:59 < Veggen> 94k transaction, and it all massed up to...$2 in fees.
08:00 < Veggen> they'll likely brag about that at some point. Bragging about the foundation of your future security not exactly being sound is sonething special.
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08:01 < queip> bcash is like a cheap hooker who advertising by how many cocks she can suck per second.
08:01 < queip> it's not that number that should be going up, lady
08:02 < queip> (if at expense of others)
08:03 < gmaxwell> I think I can I think I can
08:05 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high
08:05 <@gribble> 31977.45
08:05 < gmaxwell> gemini hit 32k.
08:07 < gmaxwell> ;;tlast
08:07 <@gribble> 32010.0
08:08 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
08:08 < deb0rah> binance 0.01107200 [-5.91%] | bittrex 0.01111550 [-5.55%] | southxchange 0.01128831 [-5.05%] | hitbtc 0.01108500 [-5.73%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01113362 [-5.49%] | kraken 0.01111000 [-5.53%] |
08:12 < DeanGuss> oh man.. breakin' down
08:13 < queip> the ship is liiiisting sir
08:14 < queip> remember when 3 years ago segwit scored a direct hit on the ammo magazine of asicboost? that was fun
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08:15 < DeanGuss> yeah.. seems bitmain sunk their own battleship though
08:15 < DeanGuss> I wonder what jihan will do now that he was finally forced out
08:16 < queip> DeanGuss: I had a video about it recently here
08:16 < gmaxwell> DeanGuss: Micree called Jihan a little bitch, but jihan thought he said to buy all the BCH. :P
08:17 < DeanGuss> haha
08:17 < DeanGuss> "bch, pls"
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08:30 < Emcy> i still cant believe they marketed bch as bitch at one point
08:31 < Emcy> buy bitchcoin
08:31 < Emcy> .011 is new ATL right
08:32 < Emcy> theyve had a nearly unbroken run of ATL for what the last month at least?
08:33 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kowuiy/bitcoin_finally_crosses_30000_mark_what_next/
08:33 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Bitcoin Finally Crosses 30000 Mark, What Next? : btc ]
08:33 < DeanGuss> at least for all the pain they got to excise the tumor that was deadalnix
08:34 < Emcy> probably all things considered, amaury was actually the least scammy of the principals left in bch at the time
08:34 < Emcy> but now hes gone yes
08:35 < DeanGuss> so scammyness can consume them now
08:36 < Emcy> they honestly seem to enjoy it
08:37 < Emcy> 'this guy is a total bastard, but hes OUR bastard. Imagine what he will do to our enemies!'
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08:44 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kp0lbs/no_worries_btc_will_come_back_down_when_bch/
08:44 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ No worries, BTC will come back down when BCH approaches $370 : btc ]
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08:45 < Emcy> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/kp05z9/oof_bch_is_nearing_less_than_1_of_btcs_value_oof/
08:45 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ Oof, BCH is nearing less than 1% of BTC’s value... oof... OOF : btc ]
08:45 < Emcy> not the only ones anticipating 1%
08:45 < queip> was amury a bad guy? was he spreading lies?  or just coding as paid. I do not remember.
08:45 < Emcy> well he was never a *good* guy. but he was pretty much the only person actually doing any work and they treated him like crap anyway
08:46 < Emcy> its kind not surprising he said fuck it and pulled the IFP thing in the end
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08:47 < Veggen> Amaury was never much into the conspiracy theories, but he did believe big blocks was the best way forward.
08:48 < DeanGuss> I didn't get the feeling he ever had bad intent, but bad outcomes abounded
08:48 < Veggen> it's still a honest opinion, even if I believe it to be wrong. the dishonesty is claiming it was anything like "the plan", and anyone not following the plan must have been bought.
08:49 < DeanGuss> if you're a one man show you need to at least be able to communicate well, which he did not
08:49 < Emcy> hes self interested more than anything else....idk if that counts as 'bad intent' as such
08:49 < Veggen> well...he's french. There's bound to be some harsh feelings :)
08:49 < Emcy> its certainly not good intent for others
08:50 < Emcy> ;;tlast
08:50 <@gribble> 32353.99
08:50 < Veggen> Emcy: even that is sort of a honest thing to be, as long as you are up front with it :)
08:50 < Emcy> ;;ticker --high
08:50 <@gribble> 33099.24
08:50 < Emcy> Veggen well idk. its not a huge saving grace merely being hte least worst of a bad bunch
08:51 < Veggen> well, no.
08:51 < Emcy> he must have pulled the ifp thing i guess because he knew a long time ago that jihan was on the way out the door
08:51 < Veggen> any bets about the price of BCH in a year?
08:52 < Veggen> shitcoins never die, they just wither to nothing
08:54 < DeanGuss> .price bch usd
08:54 < deb0rah> southxchange 354.65237900 [+1.90%] | gdax 362.31 [+4.98%] | kraken 359.990000 [+4.21%] | bittrex 356.42100000 [+3.23%] | hitbtc 360.69900000 [+4.59%] |
08:58 < grubles> i can't tell if gpg is slow or if encrypting 2 TB of data is what's slow
08:59 < grubles> it's probably my disk IO actually
09:02 < Veggen> grubles: I run duplicity on my NAS. For 2 TB, my initial backup was a month, and the gpg encryption locally was the bulk of that :)
09:02 < grubles> wah a month?
09:02 < grubles> i'm already 1.1 TB through it
09:02 < grubles> started it about 12 hours ago
09:04 < Emcy> thanks ryzen
09:07 < midnight> :-C
09:07 < midnight> .price bch btc
09:07 < deb0rah> binance 0.01117500 [-4.77%] | bittrex 0.01120012 [-4.40%] | southxchange 0.01125735 [-5.56%] | hitbtc 0.01115500 [-4.85%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01123738 [-3.84%] | kraken 0.01120000 [-4.52%] |
09:08 < midnight> al.. most..
09:10 < Veggen> grubles: but you're not running on a 5600 rpm NAS disk, with CPU and memory etc built for silentness instead of power :)
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09:18 < midnight> .price bch btc
09:18 < deb0rah> binance 0.01108300 [-5.56%] | bittrex 0.01105860 [-5.61%] | southxchange 0.01115732 [-6.40%] | hitbtc 0.01105200 [-5.73%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01108126 [-5.17%] | kraken 0.01113000 [-5.12%] |
09:18 < midnight> all..  mooooooossst...
09:19 < gmaxwell> .price btc cad
09:19 < deb0rah> bisq 15289.44280000 [+1.14%] | kraken 39703.10000 [+9.60%] |
09:19 < gmaxwell> 40K CAD.
09:19 < midnight> wtf is up with bisq lol
09:20 < midnight> that's not the right price.
09:20 < gmaxwell> "More expensive BTC gets, less useful it is."
09:20 < gmaxwell> lol
09:21 < queip> grubles: gpg encrypting data goes at speed of AES or so. though gpg if used just on file tries to first gzip (or smth) it
09:22 < midnight> gmaxwell: Kraken's stupid CAD market is like $1900 off the fair exchange price.
09:22 < midnight> at fair exchange rate, it *should* be up at 41768.
09:23 < queip> oh my god it's a miraaaaaaage, oh my god it's time to
09:23 < queip> arbitraaaaaaage
09:23 < midnight> I'm not sending any money *to* an exchange.
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09:27 < gmaxwell> queip: I feel like that should be a song in the libertarian version of rockey horror picture show
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09:59 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
09:59 < deb0rah> binance 0.01092100 [-6.94%] | bittrex 0.01101379 [-5.99%] | southxchange 0.01115079 [-6.46%] | hitbtc 0.01091600 [-6.89%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01092513 [-6.51%] | kraken 0.01094000 [-6.73%] |
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10:16 < midnight> SO CLOSE
10:16 < midnight> lol
10:17 < AndyS2> close to 0?
10:17 < queip> AndyS2: they will become the 1%
10:17 < midnight> that too, we're just picking a relatively arbitrarily small number on the percentile dice :)
10:17 < midnight> So, close to 1%
10:17 < midnight> what queip said :)
10:25 < gmaxwell> AndyS2: so close until this can be posted on rbtc :P https://i.imgflip.com/4s74ay.jpg
10:25 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ jpeg (612 x 408) ]
10:26 < AndyS2> oh, so this has been going on for a while? I thought it was only a notion to the 99%/1% protests
10:27 < queip> time to bookmark rbtc new I guess
10:27 < queip> and controversial and glided
10:27 < gmaxwell> sadly I need to go to sleep.
10:28 < queip> gmaxwell: post same url to other subs then it is in "other discussions" when you enter comments
10:28 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
10:28 < deb0rah> binance 0.01102000 [-5.29%] | bittrex 0.01101206 [-5.39%] | southxchange 0.01110543 [-5.40%] | hitbtc 0.01101200 [-5.40%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01105651 [-5.21%] | kraken 0.01104000 [-5.24%] |
10:28 < gmaxwell> night niht
10:32 < midnight> sleep?!
10:32 < midnight> nooo
10:32 < midnight> .price bch btc
10:32 < deb0rah> binance 0.01099800 [-5.47%] | bittrex 0.01099180 [-5.57%] | southxchange 0.01110543 [-5.40%] | hitbtc 0.01096300 [-5.82%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01100000 [-5.69%] | kraken 0.01099000 [-5.67%] |
10:33 < grubles> one does not simply sleep in a bull market
10:36 < queip> gmaxwell: should set up loud irc notification "allert" and give some of us the "password" (eg highlight on word) for such things ;)
11:02 < grubles> hey we're now at ATL for gold / BTC
11:03 < cncr04s> "Dollar continues its historic decline against Bitcoin"
11:15 < midnight> LOL @ sellwall on kraken
11:15 < midnight> SOMEONE LOSING MONEY
11:16 < midnight> Even on the USD market. That's nuts.
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11:31 < nkuttler> nice
11:33 < nkuttler> and it's one
11:33 < nkuttler> gone
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13:14 < phantomcircuit> !ticker --high
13:14 <@gribble> 33333.0
13:14 < phantomcircuit> lol
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13:43 < Emcy> noice
13:46 < pipilainen> are we winning?
13:46 < DeanGuss> bsv is slowly winning the hash war
13:46 < DeanGuss> they did say it might take years right?
13:46 < pipilainen> what hash war? there is no hash war
13:47 < pipilainen> bitcoin brings all hash to my yard
13:47 < DeanGuss> craig ranted about it for like a month or more... are you calling him a liar?
13:47 < DeanGuss> I assume it's still going...
13:48 < pipilainen> I dont care about greg
13:48 < pipilainen> craig
13:48 < pipilainen> what is the war about?
13:48 < pipilainen> which chain are they working on?
13:48 < pipilainen> bsv and...
13:49 < DeanGuss> They're trying to overtake bch
13:49 < pipilainen> but bch and bsv are seperate chains
13:49 < DeanGuss> then bitcoin of course, in due time
13:50 < pipilainen> so they are not hashing the same blockchains, so there is no war, only posturing?
13:50 < pipilainen> so it's like a hashrace, but nobody cares because the world moved on after UASF
13:50 < DeanGuss> I haven't even heard any posturing in a while... but if bsv flippens bch in price they will eventually win the hashwar too I'd think
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13:51 < pipilainen> but they are not hashing the same thing?
13:51 < DeanGuss> sha256
13:51 < pipilainen> so difficulty adjustment would soon enable each chain to spit out blocks with the same interval
13:52 < pipilainen> yes, but a blockchain is based on hashing the previous block(s)
13:53 < pipilainen> so what good does a hashwar do if they already on different forks?
13:53 < DeanGuss> I think it will help their marketing
13:53 < pipilainen> I'm sure it will
13:54 < DeanGuss> .price bsv bch
13:54 < deb0rah> southxchange 0.46486303 [-2.56%] | hitbtc 0.45758000 [-3.08%] |
13:54 < pipilainen> but they are not winning in any way
13:54 < pipilainen> and it's more of a race than a war, like the space race
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14:31 < grubles> ;;tlast
14:31 <@gribble> 32285.02
14:31 < grubles> so much for that dump
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14:52 < gmaxwell> ;;ticker --high
14:52 <@gribble> 33333.0
14:52 < gmaxwell> A third of the way to $100k
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15:04 < midnight> lol
15:05 < midnight> lol
15:05 < midnight> .price bsv btc
15:05 < deb0rah> bittrex 0.00510481 [-7.90%] | hitbtc 0.00507700 [-8.42%] | southxchange 0.00505732 [-8.66%] |
15:05 < midnight> .price bch btc
15:05 < deb0rah> binance 0.01101200 [-5.47%] | bittrex 0.01106003 [-4.65%] | southxchange 0.01113484 [-3.37%] | hitbtc 0.01102400 [-5.30%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128198 [-9.54%] | poloniex 0.01099376 [-5.24%] | kraken 0.01104000 [-5.32%] |
15:05 < midnight> Just keeps oscillating.
15:06 < midnight> Does BSV have a pruned mode? Maybe if we just run our own nodes we can have a bot query them directly so we don't have to jerk around with weird websites built by losers.
15:06  * midnight instantly loses interest
15:06 < midnight> nvm
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15:10 < grubles> lol
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15:33 < midnight> ^^ this guy knows what I'm talkin about
15:37 < midnight> wait come back andytoshi
15:38 < midnight> noooo
15:39 < Emcy> ;;tlast
15:39 <@gribble> 31888.88
15:42 < Emcy> >This rally followed the same pattern as several recent pumps. BCH moved first, going up a few percent. Then, a few hours later, BTC surged even more.
15:42 < Emcy> It's as if someone buys BTC in response to BCH moving. This has happened several times in recent weeks.
15:42 < Emcy> you heard em, some giga-whale is just driving bitcoin price up just to make bch look bad
15:44 < lemmi> yesterday, everything went down except btc and doge for a while. almost looked like people were moving out of their shitcoins
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16:00 < midnight> lemmi: the baskets on coinbase help prop up All The Garbage
16:00 < grubles> midnight: :D
16:00 < grubles> turns out openssl is much faster than gpg for aes
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16:15 < midnight> unsurprising I guess.
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16:17 < midnight> I wonder if there's a patch opportunity for bulk data..
16:17 < midnight> encryption sytrategy might be different though..
16:18 < midnight> strategy.. urk this keyboard blows.
16:19 < gmaxwell> sounds like some customer is suing coinbase for listing xrp.
16:19 < midnight> Yeh I saw them mentioning something like that on twitter but couldn't find any reliable source.
16:19 < midnight> I wonder which one?
16:20 < midnight> The XRP nutbars were crowing about how coinbase was going to have to argue that xrp was.. or.. was not? a security? or something.
16:20 < gmaxwell> Sandoval v. Coinbase, Inc.
16:21 < midnight> Does that person have a handle somewhere or is he just a nobody who Ripple convinced was a king.
16:21 < midnight> whom.
16:21 < gmaxwell> https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/37719779/Sandoval_v_Coinbase,_Inc
16:21 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ Sandoval v. Coinbase, Inc. (3:20-cv-09420), California Northern District Court ]
16:25 < midnight> Ah here it is: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/26889888/sandoval-v-coinbase-inc/
16:25 < midnight> the pacermonitor thing looks like it might be a weird commercial overlay of some sort.
16:26 < gmaxwell> thanks, it didn't come up in the courtlistener search for me.
16:26 < belcher> some chinese guy in #bitcoin is asking about bitcoin and it turns out the chinese firewall blocks electrum.org :p
16:26 < midnight> \o  me neither, had to get a link from the real pacer via recap :(
16:26 < midnight> belcher: lol
16:26 < midnight> I sympathize with the people stuck in a lawless nation. :(
16:28 < gmaxwell> "On November 6, 2020 and again on December 17, 2020, Plaintiff purchased
16:28 < gmaxwell> XRP on Coinbase and paid a commission to Coinbase."
16:28 < gmaxwell> so perhaps this guy bought it specifically so he could sue coinbase.
16:37 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, looks like a poison pill
16:37 < phantomcircuit> 'The  Class:  All persons  who  purchased  XRP  on  Coinbase  during  the applicable statute of limitations and paid a commission to Coinbase.'
16:37 < phantomcircuit> the statute of limitations didn't start ticking until they learned about it
16:38 < phantomcircuit> so everybody is within the applicable statute of limitations, unless say you wanted to split the class into two to make it harder to prosecute the case
16:40 < gmaxwell> coinbase sure isn't going to argue that their customers should have known it was a security back in 2017 when they listed it.
16:40 < gmaxwell> I don't really get the lawsuit-- it's unclear what harm they're alleging.
16:40 < gmaxwell> like ... they just want their transaction fees back? :P
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16:47 < gmaxwell> .price bch rmb
16:47 < deb0rah> Sorry, pair not found.. :(
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17:10 < midnight> gmaxwell: "compensatory damages as required by law." What the heck are those?
17:12 < midnight> Like, 19, 20, 21 refer to commissions but that's not specifically what it's asking for-- but "compensatory damages". Who knows how big those are.
17:12  * midnight shrug
17:18 < ossifrage> bah, tried to remerge my "-maxuploadtimeframe" hack and things changed enough to break it. I wonder what the chances are of getting it accepted as a patch
17:20 < ossifrage> I limit the upload to XXmb/YYYmin vs XXXmb/day, smooths things out a bit when serving archive blocks
17:22 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, either it's a class action and indeed the lawyer would be happy with the fees back
17:23 < phantomcircuit> or it's a close class ie captured by coinbase in some way and is intentionally incompetent
17:24 < grubles> midnight: it's like a magnitude faster (gpg vs openssl)
17:24 < grubles> even with compression disabled using gpg
17:27 < cncr04s> i'm on cb's side on that one, I mean it is up to you to do research on what your buying. I did, ages ago, is why I never bought xrp even though at one point it was poised to rival btc
17:28 < phantomcircuit> cncr04s, i've had multiple people ask me about xrp, it's not merely an instance of they put something out in the market that's worthless
17:28 < phantomcircuit> they actively marketed it as if it was stock
17:28 < phantomcircuit> it was always clear to anybody even vaguely paying attention that it was a security, so what is coinbases defense possibly going to be? sorry we're to incompetent to have noticed that it's a security?
17:29 < phantomcircuit> the entire purpose of the securities laws is to prevent people who aren't so smart from getting scammed quite as easily
17:30 < phantomcircuit> now if they were selling them next to a giant disclaimer that said something like 'we dont think this is a good investment'
17:30 < cncr04s> did the fincen or whatnot reneg on their stance that it is a security, I thought they said it wasnt at some point, is why I suspect coinbase went ahead and added it but I don't know really
17:30 < phantomcircuit> then maybe
17:32 < phantomcircuit> cncr04s, FinCEN regulates currency, so they say it's currency, CFTC regulates commodities ... but has said nothing, SEC regulates securities so they say it's a security
17:32 < phantomcircuit> it's pretty clear that XRP is a security
17:32 < cncr04s> I know that
17:32 < phantomcircuit> it's also pretty clear that ETH is a security
17:32 < cncr04s> I don't agree completley there
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17:34 < phantomcircuit> cncr04s, is ethereum an entity brought about by a singular group (vitalik et al ie the ethereum foundation)? yes
17:34 < cncr04s> so was bitcoin
17:34 < phantomcircuit> is the value of ETH based on their work? yes
17:35 < phantomcircuit> the value of eth is based on the continued work of vitalik and the ethereum foundation
17:35 < phantomcircuit> which is the opposite of bitcoin
17:35 < phantomcircuit> it's value is because of what it is
17:35 < phantomcircuit> not because of what it could be in the future
17:35 < cncr04s> eth is worth what it is because of other platforms that built on top of it
17:35 < ossifrage> after 5 days of downtime, bitcoind sucked down the missing blocks quite fast
17:35 < cncr04s> well partially
17:36 < cncr04s> ethereum fondation doesnt controll 50% of all eth tokens, at least not anymore I don't think. I don't hold a lot of eth
17:39 < grubles> they still sell ICO ETH to the public, as recent as 2017 even
17:39 < grubles> including Vitalik
17:40 < midnight> grubles: It's possible that openssl can aes in chunks and merge them after with some kind of clever data struct..? I'm curious what the difference is now.
17:41 < queip> grubles: did  you eliminated the thing about zipping input data first in gpg?
17:42 < midnight> the initial premine sale was a securities offering, filled with advertising, and paid promotionals from famous cryptographers who were carefully whitewashed out of the history.
17:43 < grubles> queip: yeah you can disable it with --compress-algo none
17:43 < midnight> Bitcoin was announced on an obscure mailing list and grew entirely organically, and nobody paid satoshi a penny.
17:43 < midnight> There is zero comparison there possible. Zero.
17:47 < gmaxwell> this is fucking fucking terrible: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-passes-historic-anti-corruption-legislation-that-effectively-bans-anonymous-shell-companies-b1781380.html
17:47 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ US passes ‘historic’ anti-corruption law that effectively bans anonymous shell c... ]
17:47 < grubles> i read it doesn't really ban it
17:47 < grubles> only imposes a minimum cost
17:48 < gmaxwell> The law makes it impossible to own realestate in the US without ending up with your docs discoverable. It *could* have made improper disclosure of the information a felony, as is the case for tax return data (Which still gets leaked..) but it did not.
17:48 < Emcy> oh. does that affect you
17:48 < grubles> like, you gotta hire some people and have $5M in revenue or something
17:48 < midnight> I wonder if this is a craig sock: https://twitter.com/bsv_nld
17:48 < gmaxwell> grubles: yes, it makes it so monery launderers and VERY people can still keep their locations private.
17:48 < gmaxwell> Yes. This affects me personally.
17:48 < queip> as usual anti-corruption, anti-ML, and tax the rich laws hit everyone except the rich lol
17:49 < Emcy> i thought it did
17:49 < Emcy> :(
17:49 < queip> (I mean except top 1%ers)
17:49 < midnight> gmaxwell: bare trusts with secret beneficiaries I think are still anonymous-like.
17:49 < queip> democracy will continue to more and more destroy personal freedoms
17:49 < queip> btw vaccines will not work and we will be in lockdowns for next years
17:49 < queip> (update based on some new information)
17:49 < gmaxwell> To protect the privacy of your physical address this way in the US previously just required a few hundred dollars one time cost before buying the property plus a nominal annual fee.
17:50 < Emcy> are there other optinos
17:50 < cncr04s> what about just general proxy companies
17:50 < gmaxwell> So it was very much a move available to everyone (who owns their home, ... renters are already anonymous)
17:50 < midnight> cncr04s: the true full beneficial owner has to be disclosed.
17:50 < gmaxwell> cncr04s: this law makes all companies below a size disclose their ultimate human beneficial owners.
17:51 < midnight> It also mandates investigations into trusts, which means bare trusts are probably next on the chopping block
17:51 < grubles> can you...rent to yourself?
17:51 < queip> why not pick up an actually free country and move. is there not any left in the world?
17:51 < midnight> grubles: you're the beneficial owner, so, no.
17:51 < gmaxwell> There is a huge loophole baked in, if the company has 20+ employees and >$5m in revenue it's excempted.
17:51 < queip> make it an exclusive hotel, or an IT company and you work there 24/24
17:52 < gmaxwell> Probably the law can be avoided if I sell you my property, and loan you the money to buy it, and pay you rent which you return to me which services the interest on the loan, and then your name is on it instead of mine.
17:52 < midnight> You might be able to contractually perma-rent from an autonomous corp, but that's pretty risky. Who knows if they
17:52 < midnight> 'll operate in good faith.
17:53 < queip> or really just shit on the stupid democracy, move to Monako pay no tax, and physically live for ~half year anywhere you want as a tourist.   but yeah must be annoying even if you could do it, to change plans and everything
17:53 < Emcy> what kinda money launderer or whatever isnt even moving 5mm for all that effort? stupid law
17:53 < queip> Emcy: almost every law is stupid
17:54 < midnight> queip: :-/  hey man, moving to garbage countries that hate white people isn't really a viable option for north americans.
17:54 < Emcy> seems like theres some alterior pork motive there
17:54 < cncr04s> malta?
17:55 < midnight> cncr04s: hardcore roman catholic? might as well move to ireland and hope nobody finds out you don't go to church
17:56 < gmaxwell> Emcy: I think this law mostly exists because of fucking movies and TV's making anonymous corporations a plot point.
17:57 < gmaxwell> in any case, here is the silver lining?  see this law?  it's a good reasn for bitcoin's value to increase.
17:57 < midnight> gmaxwell: There was an anonocorp behind the recent dem loss of those florida senate seats.
17:57 < midnight> With the confusingly similarly-names alt candidates
17:57 < midnight> named. D. :-C
17:58 < queip> midnight: seems USA is the garbage country in this example
17:58 < midnight> Nah man. Foreign propaganda and complaints from natives don't make the USA a garbage cuntry.
17:58 < grubles> gmaxwell: how so re: value increase
17:59 < queip> midnight: every country laws like for example civil forfeiture already is trash
17:59 < gmaxwell> grubles: A lot of wealthy people are already interested in Bitcoin because it's essentially an anonymous bearer bond.
18:00 < midnight> (And by "natives" I mean "people from that country" and not "first nations" types..)
18:00 < gmaxwell> grubles: keeping your assets anonymous has a lot of benefits. Protects you from theives, protects you from angry mobs out after wealthy people, protects you from spurrious litigation (pepople targeting you because you're rich)....
18:00 < gmaxwell> grubles: rapidly bitcoin is becoming one of the only anonymous ways to keep wealth.
18:01 < gmaxwell> Prior to this law, anonymous corporations means that you could own and transfer realestate anonymously.
18:01 < queip> (for people without political influence etc)
18:01 < gmaxwell> Looks like this law will, at a minimum, be making it much more expensive to do so.
18:01 < gmaxwell> so Bitcoin will be relatively more attractive to own as a consequence.
18:02 < grubles> oh i see, yeah that makes complete sense
18:02 < queip> this is good for bitcoin ®  :)
18:02 < cncr04s> well thats good for me
18:02 < gmaxwell> Some people we know in Bitcoin basically came to it because bitcoin == bearer bonds.
18:02 < queip> but with no good and somewhat free country left in the world, that's not so great
18:03 < queip> (not that this 1 law is so important, but in general many such laws)
18:03 < cncr04s> well I can still buy a few thousand acres of land up in remote alaska and live free
18:04 < gmaxwell> cncr04s: until I hear you own a couple bitcoin, then look up your land, then fly out there and break my leg on it just to sue you to get you to pay me a fat settlement. :P
18:04 < cncr04s> no one knows me
18:05 < midnight> The.. frozen north..?  is Freedom?
18:05 < queip> cncr04s: why Alaska would be better?
18:05 < midnight> It is self-flagellation man.
18:05 < gmaxwell> And, yes, *this actually happens*.  Though less often because many of the people most likely to be targeted by it take action to conceal their assets,  -- it's not worth suing someone if you're not confident in a payday.
18:05 < gmaxwell> midnight: I suppose if you're sufficiently wealthy alaska is fine.
18:06 < ossifrage> gmaxwell, how did you protect your address from things like telcos or poco? The telco/poco only knows about the LLC and not you specifically?
18:06 < midnight> No man. There's no such thing as sufficiently wealthy to be isolated from the cold up there. It's pervasive, impossible, vast, endless.
18:06 < midnight> Hell. Frozen. Over. :(
18:06 < cncr04s> I mean, I can't believe how much i've "made" in the last 24 hours
18:07 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: anything that physically serves my address knows only about the LLC. and their only human contact is a friend of mine in another state that I pay a nominal amount to manage them for me.
18:07 < ossifrage> and you would only be able to buy stuff from places like amazon using the LLC's CC
18:07 < midnight> cncr04s: Your cashout is a drip siphon :( I'm still annoyed about it on your behalf.
18:07 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: anything that doesn't physically service my location just knows my name at a mailbox.
18:08 < midnight> gmaxwell: I wonder if it's possible that part of the impetus for the bill passage was that crypto peeps were doing the lopp thing and disappearing.
18:08 < ossifrage> gmaxwell, has doing that ever caused you problems, like in those rare cases where "they" want proof of address?
18:08 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: we don't do deliveries here, except for produce...  I have a credit card with the aformentioned friend as an authorized user, which is used to pay for stuff like that.  My LLCs don't have bank accounts due to the disclosure requirements.
18:08 < ossifrage> Also, what address do you use on your drivers license?
18:08 < midnight> yet another reason why the market cap propaganda is infinitely damaging to bitcoin.
18:08 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: mailbox service.
18:09 < gmaxwell> RealID act depends a 'physical address' whatever the @#$@ that means. (I mean, technically the property I live on doesn't even have an address!)... but DMVs don't do much of anything to verify that other than being able to send you mail, they won't accept a post office PO box.
18:10 < cncr04s> 6000 unnammed road, nowhere ak
18:10 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: the only problem I've had is that fidelity won't let me open a HSA account because they don't consider my mailbox address to be a 'physical address'.
18:12 < ossifrage> If I ever manage to build my imaginary house, I was thinking about trying to buy the property as anomalously as possible as well (but never really looked into the details)
18:12 < phantomcircuit> looks like if you want to own property anonymously now you need to do a bunch of nonsense with offshore entities and trusts
18:12 < gmaxwell> yeah, you should, it's easy to own it via an LLC. even with this dumb law thats most anonymous than not doing so. esp if your state puts all the property records online.
18:12 < cncr04s> well chain a few corps or llcs together, make it less appealing to trace it
18:12 < phantomcircuit> which makes actually owning the property kind of annoying
18:13 < midnight> Wonder if the exchanges are losing holdings because they're expecting a more direct challenge to bitcoin hodlers.
18:13 < ossifrage> gmaxwell, I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort because it would be so damn easy to screw up
18:13 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: depends on how anonymous.  Even with this law you're still better off owning via an LLC. The disclosure is to fincen, not public. Though the idiot fucking law doesn't prohibit them from making it public or make it a felony to leak it.
18:13 < midnight> One more reason why making all bitcoiners hate you is a bad idea.
18:13 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, and that can be pretty cheap too, just pay the corp taxes and have the registered agent be `123 Main St LLC, 123 Main St, Fly Creek, NY, 13337
18:14 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i assume anything you send to fincen is public
18:14 < phantomcircuit> since it basically is
18:14 < ossifrage> I register my domain to '123 fake street, springfield...'
18:14 < gmaxwell> well the advocates of this law are claiming it's private, though thats bullshit unless there is at least criminal penalities for leaking it.
18:14 < midnight> ossifrage: Good way for scammers to steal your domain. :(
18:15 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: I think it's easy to have small leaks, but it's also easy to make it so random idiots cannot tell the ownership without at least hiring a competent PI.
18:15 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, iirc basically every law enforcement agency in the country can lookup basically everything that fincen has
18:15 < phantomcircuit> i might be misremembering, maybe they have to like ask or something
18:15 < phantomcircuit> but i dont think so
18:15 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: :( right. But that's *still* better than just having the state list it on the internet.
18:16 < phantomcircuit> true
18:16 < ossifrage> gmaxwell, I don't think anyone hates me enough to pay a PI to find my address ;)
18:16 < phantomcircuit> lol google has forgotten about people complaining that i registered something at `1 main st, fly creek, ny 13337`
18:17 < gmaxwell> Personally I'm not trying to hide my physical address from the government, except in so far as I need to do so because otherwise they'll leak it.
18:17 < phantomcircuit> ossifrage, that's not your real threat model, the risk is someone who thinks they can get money from you
18:17 < gmaxwell> hate is kind of a secondary concern, as phantomcircuit says.
18:18 < gmaxwell> basically there are hundreds of attornies (if not thousands) in the US who will take obvious false cases on contingency if you can show that the target is sufficiently rich that they're likely to just settle to make the case go away.
18:18 < phantomcircuit> lol found it
18:18 < phantomcircuit> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4525090.msg41605963#msg41605963
18:18 < Entitlement> phantomcircuit - [ [ANN][Pre-ICO] Coal Coin - VIRTUAL INVESTMENT IN A REAL PRODUCT ]
18:18 < gmaxwell> So the best defence against that is to make it impossible to figure out what the payday is from suing you.
18:18 < phantomcircuit> morons
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18:19 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I saw some older rbtc thread recently saying theymos was in the panama papers....  turns out that bitcoin.it's DNS registrar has a mailing address which is a virgual office which is named in the panama papers.
18:19 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, there's always the other option
18:19 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, belligerently defend yourself from all litigation
18:19 < queip> again with the boomertech of DNS
18:19 < queip> so retarded it didnt yet died out
18:20 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol
18:20 < phantomcircuit> yeah that flycreek address is neat cause it looks realish but is total nonsense to any human
18:20 < gmaxwell> Also owning via an LLC actually provides legal protection beyond privacy... because in a lawsuit they normally can't force you to wind down a company to pay it off, they can only encumber the assets later.
18:21 < ossifrage> I had some patent lawyers from a big telco some looking for me and they kept finding my dad but couldn't seem to find me (never understood how they could be so bad at their job)
18:21 < gmaxwell> so for example if some asshole does sue you and wins a judgement against you, they can't force you to sell a house you own via an LLC, they can only get a chunk of the money when you later sell the house.
18:21 < cncr04s> I usually use 123 Main St, North Pole AK 99705
18:21 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i mean if they actually get a judgement they can certainly take the llc's property through the sheriff, but like that might he challenging if you're renting from the llc with a like 100 year lease
18:21 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: being paid by the hour and don't give a fuck, perhaps.
18:21 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: in California there is plenty of case law that they cannot.
18:22 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, really? that's very surprising
18:22 < gmaxwell> "House isn't mine, you can't take it.  And you cannot force me to direct the actions of the LLC through a fininicial judgement"
18:22 < phantomcircuit> i would expect that if you owned the house directly, but not through an llc
18:22 < phantomcircuit> oh you're saying a judgement against you
18:22 < ossifrage> They kept calling my father (with the same name) and he would say, "that's not me" or "i didn't work there" (he knew how I felt about patents)
18:22 < phantomcircuit> lol right yeah
18:23 < gmaxwell> [related: california just changed the law to up the amount of home value protected from judgements from $60k to $600k-- but that still applies if you own via an llc.]
18:23 < gmaxwell> But the LLC is just strictly better protection. You might have to fight to keep it... but someone weighing the returns on suing you has to factor that in.
18:25 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it is kinda dumb that they let you use LLCs this way, I won't be too shocked if that changes.
18:25 < ossifrage> The guy that stole a $5k deposit from me and then did negative work managed to use his LLC in a way that made it impossible for me to collect the judgment against him
18:26 < gmaxwell> it makes sense that a judgement shouldn't be able to make you sell e.g. your business, likely destroying its value and your future income in the process.
18:27 < gmaxwell> It makes less sense that property owners who had the foresight to use a tax disregarded entity to purchase their house get magical asset protection that other home owners do not.
18:27 < ossifrage> Took the $5k then never showed up to do the work or order the parts, I complained and eventually he came out and removed some siding from my garage and then disappeared. It was a pain in the ass
18:27 < gmaxwell> ossifrage: sucks. :(
18:28 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i suspect that doing that 'and lease it back to themselve for 100 years' thing would make it basically impossible to take
18:28 < ossifrage> The siding was only a small part of the job. In my mind he did negative work
18:30 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I think as it is right now, merely owning via an LLC is pretty much enough. And now plus in CA, 600k will be protected on eventual sale of the property (or if they do manage to breach the LLC).
18:30 < ossifrage> Since mid-covid I've been getting a constant stream of letters from pseudo-scammers wanting to buy my house. It really annoys me how much they know about me
18:30 < gmaxwell> (florida is a lot better: 100% of your home's value is protected from judgements)
18:31 < ossifrage> In the last 4 months or so the neighborhood has gotten noticeably younger
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18:32 < gmaxwell> those home buying pseudo-scams suck.
18:32 < ossifrage> It is a mix of real estate agents and flippers
18:33 < gmaxwell> usually offers of CASH NOW, for a fraction of a fair market price.
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18:33 < gmaxwell> exploiting people who don't know the fair value of their home.
18:33 < gmaxwell> or do but are desperate for immediate cash.
18:34 < ossifrage> My sister lost a house bid to someone that put the house back on the market the same day it closed +$120k
18:35 < ossifrage> The flipper bought it sight unseen without an inspection for cash.
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18:36 < Emcy> property is the real bitcoins
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18:37 < ossifrage> The stupid thing is the place needed some work and buying it without an inspection is idiotic
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18:40 < gmaxwell> man fucking flippers.
18:41 < gmaxwell> realestate is such a pita to purchase it makes flippers pretty obnoxious. Most of them lose their shirts, too-- but until they do they create a lot of pain for other people.
18:41 < ossifrage> I guess they only bought it based on the price delta from the local mean
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18:41 < gmaxwell> yeah, they do that.  and the 12-th time they do it, they manage to buy a lemon property which was low priced for a reason and was worth half of what they paid for it... and they're screwed.
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18:42 < gmaxwell> but until then, they disrupt actual buyers who are taking the time to make an informed decision and can't afford to screw it up because they're going to be stuck with the result.
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18:45 < gmaxwell> every once in a while I see a property go for sale that is clearly mispriced (perhaps the seller is in a hurry),  I've contemplated buying it, attaching a fucking anti-flipping covenant to the deed, and reselling it for a cost, just because I'm offended by the market disruption created by flippers.  (really, the root cause is that loans are too cheap and easily available-- flipping is attractive
18:45 < gmaxwell> because the flippers are levered out the ying-yang)
18:45 < gmaxwell> (well "attractive" I think most flippers are negative EV but don't realize it yet)
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18:48 < Emcy> how would some anti flipper clause ever be enforcible
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18:53 < Emcy> >Bitcoin Plunges 8% to $30,500
18:53 < Emcy> PLUNGES
18:53 < Emcy> ;;tlast
18:53 <@gribble> 32816.89
18:53 < Emcy> ?
18:53 -!- jpe [~jp@i5E86AFAA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
18:54 < Emcy> >submitted an hour ago by bitcointothemoon_
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18:54 < Emcy> yeah cool your jets friendo
18:54 < cncr04s> plunges? just a liquidity problem
18:58 < Emcy> people ran out of fiat to buy with
18:58 < Emcy> now they gotta wait ten minutes at least
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19:02 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, in the us you can add covenants to your deed which go along with the house forever
19:02 < phantomcircuit> these include things like 'no black person may ever own this property'
19:02 < phantomcircuit> which aren't enforced anymore, but which also cannot be removed from the deed in many places
19:03 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, what clause would you use?
19:04 < Emcy> so i think you told me a lil bit about why you can do such a thing in the US there
19:05 < Emcy> what a weird anarchronism
19:05 < Emcy> really a property cannot be cleansed of convenants?
19:11 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, in most of the us it cannot
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19:11 < phantomcircuit> i can buy property and require that all structures on it be painted pink in perpetuity
19:11 < Emcy> fuckin amazing
19:12 < Emcy> puts another spin on 'this house is haunted'
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19:15 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, the main reason this doesn't happen is that it would tank the property value
19:15 < phantomcircuit> so why would you do that to yourself
19:17 < Emcy> because its my RIGHT
19:17 < Emcy> some anti flipper clause wouldnt tank value much at all though i bet....only for actual flippers
19:17 < Emcy> if ti were drafted well
19:18 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/JimmyWinSV/status/1313577867503050757 if the dictionary were to have a video example for 'affinity scam' it would be this
19:20 < Emcy> the last time i heard generic ethereal music like that was when i accompanied my mom to some kind of spiritual club bullshit, and it turned out to be a full blown seance with the guy 'speaking' to peoples loved ones and them crying
19:21 < Emcy> i managed to talk her out of it after that
19:22 < Emcy> it was like £5 a head x 25 or 30 people......every week
19:36 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/channelBSV/status/1344986963506565120 i didnt know they were still going at gmax so hard :(
19:59 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: The rule I'd use is that if the property is sold after N months, that any gain in value over the prior sale price has to go to the prior seller... with some decay that fades out after N years, so initially 100% of the difference then less until its none.  And make it recursive.  So if I you buy it from me then sell it to emcy, that any increase in price has to go to me.
19:59 < gmaxwell> so the buyer wouldn't be locked in, but they couldn't hope to profit from flipping it quickly.
20:00 < gmaxwell> then after 5 years the timer runs out and if the last owner has owned it that long they can remove the covenant if they want.
20:00 < gmaxwell> I believe it would be highly enforcable, since it's an actual real economic right.
20:04 < gmaxwell> and I think people would like to attach it to their properties because it shouldn't make them much harder to sell (except to flippers),  and it has a prospect of getting them some income.
20:05 < gmaxwell> I'd need to know more about the economics of flipping to know what timeframes are sufficient, I know flippers usually use 5yr ARMs with extremely low payments in the initial years and absolutely want to be out before 5 years it up.
20:05 < gmaxwell> But I'm guessing you probably only need 1 year of protection to mostly stop the practice.
20:08 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, interesting, yeah i bet that would both work and could be enforced
20:10 < Emcy> i like it
20:15 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/chiefyx/status/1344725648871456768
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20:27 < phantomcircuit> so turns out the mikrotik switch i got that's got 4 SFP+ ports can only have 2 of the RJ-45 10GBASE-T adapters in it or the thing overheats
20:28 < phantomcircuit> i can have as many fiber ones as i want, because they use 0.8W but the RJ-45 adapter uses like 4W
20:28 < cncr04s> yeah rj45's are hot
20:28 < gmaxwell> oops. I should have thought to check and warn you.
20:28 < gmaxwell> I know I've mentioned that 10g copper is @#$@ power hungry.
20:29 < cncr04s> I use sfp+
20:29 < phantomcircuit> fortunately it's got a 1000BASE-T port as well so i can get by fine with that
20:29 < phantomcircuit> now im just waiting for some better cables to arrive
20:29 < phantomcircuit> who would have thought that 36AWG CAT6A isn't really CAT6A
20:30 < phantomcircuit> it is actually shielded thou
20:30 < phantomcircuit> i guess i could also rig a fan up
20:39 < ossifrage> I was just rewatching the most recent Boston Dynamics video and I wonder if they intentionally quantized/linerized some of the humanoids motion to make it less human-like (for uncanny valley reasons)
20:41 < ossifrage> or is it just a side effect of feeding keypoints into their motion planner
21:12 < gmaxwell> ;;tlast
21:12 <@gribble> 33954.31
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21:22 < cncr04s> anyone else laughing histerically at these price moves?
21:22 < ossifrage> I just keep expecting an epic crash
21:24 < cncr04s> well there is less btc to 70k then there is to 20k
21:24 < cncr04s> at least on coinbase
21:43 < gmaxwell> I wouldn't be that confident in a quick rush to 70k... lots of coins not on the books that will show up as the price goes up further.
21:43 < gmaxwell> People are not buying up 50k calls as if they were expecting a rapid rise to >50k.
22:04 < DeanGuss> gmaxwell what was that options selling scheme you outlined a couple weeks ago?  Put 5 btc up as collateral on ledgerx, sell calls for like $X(?) each, then if the options expire you just got $25k, otherwise you sell at like 5btc @ 50k each, or something along those lines
22:08 < gmaxwell> Not sure which conversation you're referring to, but I think it's probably:  at some point I was talking about on ledgerx not all the in-the-money-calls are getting assigned at expiration at some reason.  So one could sell calls right before expiration for basically what they're worth, and hope some don't get assigned and you get a little windfall.
22:09 < gmaxwell> unfortunately, someone discussed that they weren't all getting assigned in the instutional trader pit, so I expect that strategy to be less profitable in the future.
22:10 < gmaxwell> That said, someone told me that they had a couple percent of ITM calls expire and not get assigned on Jan 1st, which was after that coversation, so perhaps not.
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22:11 < gmaxwell> the january 1st expiration was a weekly too-- the date hadn't existed for a long time.  So my theory that the failed assignments were due to people buying calls a long time ago and totally forgetting about it doesn't apply there.
22:13 < gmaxwell> DeanGuss: but in general, a thing I do is sell (mostly) far OTM calls. which generates income, and then either bitcoin moons to over the strike by expiration and I get the strike (in addition to the money I already got) or it doesn't and I get my btc back.  (or alternatively, bitcoin crashes before expiration and I buy it back at a low price way ahead of expiration)
22:14 < gmaxwell> so in effect this locks some of my gains in exchange for limiting the upside.
22:14 < DeanGuss> ah cool yeah that's the one I was looking for
22:15 < DeanGuss> like a 100k dec 2021 call option
22:15 < gmaxwell> also, when if/when it does cause me to sell bitcoin, it'll tend to do it when prices have shot way up, and I need to sell some anyways to prevent my net worth from being 90% bitcoin.
22:15 < gmaxwell> https://trade.ledgerx.com/live < you can see the bids/asks here, though not the orderbooks.
22:15 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ LedgerX Trading Interface ]
22:15 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the ledgerX calls don't execute automatically if they're in the money?
22:16 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: nope, because ledgerx doesn't really 'know' the price.  The only way to know the price is to have some index, which is potentially vulnerable to manipulation.  They should still do some optional auto-assignment, maybe with settings on how far itm you need to be to bother assigning.  But even if they do: you'll have to have the funds to execute.
22:17 < gmaxwell> (I mean there is the swap market on ledgerx, which is functionally a spot market... but the spreads on it are often pretty wide.)
22:19 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, hmm that's a fair point
22:19 < gmaxwell> DeanGuss: as you can see, you can get $4300/BTC selling a Dec2021 100k call against the best bid.  IMO that price is low... but right now I am not finding buyers at prices I think are fair for that contract. :)
22:19 < DeanGuss> nice, thank you gmaxwell
22:20 < gmaxwell> at least during business days they open new retail accounts for US customers in under an hour, from what I've heard.
22:22 < gmaxwell> looking at the orderbook, bids on that 100k dec21 have 1btc at 4300, 1btc at 4200, 1btc at 4025... and so in.  Which is a decent amount of order book volume for ledgerx.
22:24 < gmaxwell> in any case, even that IMO not very good price is 12%. So .. get a 12% return in exchange for capping a bitcoin at a max of 100k and potentially being unable to sell it for a year. Still not a bad deal.
22:25 < gmaxwell> and of course you could use the premium to buy more bitcoin, sell calls on it, buy more bitcoin, sell calls on it, and so on.
22:26 < gmaxwell> LOL: https://twitter.com/Dashpay/status/1345093269919854592
22:27 < gmaxwell> ^ sadly, suckers like ver don't read that and get angry they were duped by marketing. they just think dash is lying to avoid being kicked off.
22:41 < phantomcircuit> that's kinda hilarious
22:44 -!- brtastic [~Thunderbi@2a02:a315:413a:7580:879e:25b4:92ae:7858] has joined #lnd
22:52 -!- HeySteve [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has joined #bitcoin-forks
22:52 -!- HeySteve2 [~8037X2@unaffiliated/heysteve] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:02 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
23:02 < deb0rah> binance 0.01074000 [-6.78%] | bittrex 0.01072000 [-6.98%] | southxchange 0.01081982 [-7.65%] | hitbtc 0.01071800 [-6.87%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128260 [+0.01%] | poloniex 0.01072507 [-7.36%] | kraken 0.01074000 [-6.77%] |
23:02 < gmaxwell> oh come on mother #@$@#
23:03 < gmaxwell> ;;calc [ re "s/.*USD\":(\\d+\.\\d+),.*/\\1/g" [altprice bch] ] / ( [ re "s/.*USD\":(\\d+\.\\d+),.*/\\1/g" [altprice bch] ] + [ tlast ] )
23:03 <@gribble> 0.0106269593392
23:07 < gmaxwell> I wonder if when BCH is 1% of Bitcoin if there will be some "injection locking" that helps keep it at 1%
23:08 < gmaxwell> like idiots that assume that "bitcoin cash" is a name for bitcoin-cents.
23:11 < cncr04s> i sold when it was 13% or something like that
23:13 < Emcy> ive been caulking for 8 hours
23:13 < gmaxwell> Emcy: CAN YOU SEE INFINITY NOW
23:13 < Emcy> all i can see is white lines
23:13 < Emcy> when i close my eyes
23:14 < Emcy> my back is fucked
23:14 < gmaxwell> Was there a particular cause for the calking or did you just decide that a lot of people needed to STFU?
23:15 < Emcy> lol
23:15 < Emcy> if i explain it ill sound crazy
23:15 < Emcy> i have to seal up the cubby under my staircase, block up and seal the existing opening into the hallway and cut thru the plasterboard to make a new opening into the kitchen
23:15 < Emcy> then also seal off the kitchen
23:16 < Emcy> im moving my food and cooking stuff into the living room for a few weeks, kitchen is a no go
23:16 < Emcy> the reason is there is a legal obligation for some guy to come and inspect my boiler
23:16 < gmaxwell> So you can have inspectors do something with the boiler in the kitchen or something without exposing yourself to covid?
23:16 < Emcy> in 2 weeks
23:16 < Emcy> yes
23:17 < Emcy> and the gas meter/main valve is under the stairs
23:17 < gmaxwell> ah. okay, that was actually what I was assuming. So not so crazy that I didn't anticipate it based on your earlier comments.
23:17 < Emcy> yes, i have to get this right
23:17 < gmaxwell> They're just going to be in and out, however, right?
23:18 < Emcy> the guy is usually there for about half an hour to unscrew the front of the boiler and inspect it
23:18 < Emcy> im gonna caulk to kitchen door also, the gaffer tape it
23:19 < gmaxwell> can you open windows in the part the inspector is going to be in?
23:19 < Emcy> my plan is 2 layers of protection on every possible crack in and out of the kitchen to the rest of the house
23:19 < Emcy> yes windows will be left open
23:20 < Emcy> im debating wether to actually screw boards over the door just incase the nob forgets its a no-contact situation
23:20 < gmaxwell> well you could add one screw so it won't just open.
23:21 < Emcy> i mean if he even tried to yank it, its gonna break all the sealing
23:21 < gmaxwell> or take the door knob off. but leave the latch.
23:21 < gmaxwell> ah,
23:21 < Emcy> YES
23:21 < Emcy> good idea i will take the knob off
23:24 < gmaxwell> .price bch btc
23:24 < deb0rah> binance 0.01059200 [-8.06%] | bittrex 0.01058059 [-8.19%] | southxchange 0.01081982 [-7.65%] | hitbtc 0.01058600 [-8.02%] | bleutrade 0.01111111 [-15.29%] | graviex 0.01128260 [+0.01%] | poloniex 0.01057267 [-8.67%] | kraken 0.01064000 [-7.64%] |
23:24 < gmaxwell> ;;tlast
23:24 <@gribble> 34381.85
23:25 < Emcy> ooooooooooooooooooooo
23:25 < Emcy> i odnt want to sleep and miss it but its 07:30
23:31 < Emcy> so when is bitcoin = standard international kilo of coke
23:31 < Emcy> last i heard a kilo of marching powder was about 42-25K usd
23:31 < Emcy> er 42-45
23:32 < DeanGuss> If cali rappers are to be believed they're 15-30k
23:32 < Emcy> idk if that will be significant for some reason when it happens
23:32 < Emcy> lol maybe 15 years ago
23:33 < DeanGuss> yeah probably.. 08ish
23:33 < Emcy> [i get my drug pricing updates from rap also]
23:34 < Emcy> a bitcoin == kg bar of gold will be more significant though
23:35 < cncr04s> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw
23:35 < Emcy> gold 44.6k GBP/kilo
23:40 < Emcy> friend is asking me why bitcoin went to 34k https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/816/its-magic-i-aint-gotta-explain-shit2.jpg
23:40 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (720 x 479) ]
23:49 < gmaxwell> well a good delivery bar is ... quite a bit larger.
23:53 < Emcy> a what
23:53 < gmaxwell> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Delivery
23:53 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ Good Delivery - Wikipedia ]
23:53 < gmaxwell> thats the standard 'movie' gold bar... which usually you see people flippign around like it weighs a pound.
23:54 < Emcy> oh the ingots
23:55 < Emcy> bitcoin will subdue ingot bars of gold one day too
23:58 < Emcy> https://i0.wp.com/www.rojakpot.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/US-stole-gold-oil-02.jpg
23:58 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ jpeg (600 x 450) ]
23:58 < Emcy> fun in the sun
--- Log closed Sun Jan 03 00:00:04 2021