--- Log opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:11 2021
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00:09 < Emcy> https://nitter.net/CorbettMatt/status/1348092341341605894
00:09 < Emcy> hmm
00:15 < gmaxwell> it's not a 'felony' but it may violate antitrust law.
00:15 < gmaxwell> there is already some action going on about the coordinated treatment of nypost by twitter and facebook.
00:16 < Emcy> is there
00:16 < gmaxwell> one thing that the poster there doesn't appear to be aware of is that his corp training was conservative. E.g. his employer didn't want people doing anything that was at risk of being illegal, so they told them anything remotely like it was illegal when in reality isn't not that clear cut.
00:19 < Emcy> if the coordinated banning of parler in the last 3 days doesnt meet a bar, what would?
00:24 < ossifrage> it doesn't have to be coordinated, me too-ism is just as likely
00:27 < Emcy> look. its doesnt have to be a formal cigar smoke backroom conspiracy to still be a conspiracy
00:28 < Emcy> all the companies are full of people who know the score without further prompting by now
00:28 < Emcy> regardless, i guarantee you they all talk and pressure each other in various way too. Often they just do it openly on twitter
00:29 < midnight> phantomcircuit: I'll guess you're not putting redundant data chunks into a compressed tarball? or..?
00:30 < midnight> phantomcircuit: On the distant, remote chance you are, compress before hand then tarball or all will be for naught..
00:33 < gmaxwell> Emcy: well the difference between explicit coordination and informal quasi coordination might be the difference between being lawful (but sad) and unlawful.
00:33 < midnight> OR SET ZLIB FLUSH AT THE EXACT CHUNK INPUT BOUNDARIES heh heheh and be truly elite
00:33 < Emcy> yes i agree with that
00:33 < Emcy> but sometimes, they do get caught. rarely
00:33 < midnight> Emcy: thank you, yes I love flushing zlib.
00:34 < Emcy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList
00:34 < Entitlement> Emcy - [ JournoList - Wikipedia ]
00:34 < Emcy> very arely, they get caught
00:34 < Emcy> i guarantee you that they just made another listserv and carried on too. Perhaps just being a bit more careful this time
00:36 < Emcy> ill eat a dick if there isnt some written record of tech collusive conspiracy, somewhere
00:36 < midnight> My package has now been scanned a total of 7 times, at what appears to be the exact same facility.
00:37 < Emcy> > "In other words, members of Journolist 2.0 were debating whether to collectively respond to a Daily Caller story alleging—inaccurately, in their minds—that members of Journolist 1.0 (the same people, of course) made collective decisions about what to write."
00:37 < Emcy> oh yeah i love that closing line on this article lol
00:39 < Emcy> midnight https://youtu.be/uxX1kA-nhZk?t=10
00:40 < midnight> Like a rock tumbler.  Hah, I've seen that before. That's a damn old video.
00:41 < Emcy> its so old i can see where they used to use pixels in the olden days
00:46 < gmaxwell> they should make those belts intermittently change speed to prevent that.
00:47 < gmaxwell> I suppose if another item came up behind it, that would have solved it.
00:48 < Emcy> its probably exceptionally rare
00:50 < Emcy> i hardly did any caulking today. only 3 or 4 hours
00:50 < Emcy> started feeling too woozy so stopped
00:51 < Emcy> now i dont feel woozy but i do feel guilty
00:52 < gmaxwell> normal silicon calk is cured with acetic acid... smells kinda yucky but it should be harmless to breathe.
00:54 < Emcy> yeah im wearing an abek mask anyway so im not worried about that
00:54 < Emcy> im just run down in general
00:57 < midnight> :-(
00:57 < midnight> B-complex vitamins?
00:58 < Emcy> i take vit d daily
00:58 < Emcy> multivitamin tablets started making me violently ill a few years ago though and i have no idea why
00:58 < Emcy> like guaranteed vomit within 15 minutes
00:58 < gmaxwell> as in instant puking
00:59 < Emcy> ~instant
00:59 < gmaxwell> sooo there was an industry issue there with some new form of iron many companies started using
00:59 < Emcy> huh
00:59 < gmaxwell> Friend of mine used to work in the industry.  They should have stopped now so it may be safe for you again.
01:00 < gmaxwell> But I expirenced it too,  took a vitamin and then <20 minutes latter absolutely sudden uncontrollable vomiting. But then I felt fine after.
01:00 < Emcy> lol really they were producing tablets that makes people sick?
01:00 < midnight> https://swordscomic.com/comic/CDLXXIX/ item related
01:00 < Entitlement> midnight - [ Swords | CDLXXIX - Germ Warface ]
01:00 < gmaxwell> A year or two later I was hanging out with a friend who worked in that industry and she mentioned this and I was like WTF that wasn't just ME?!?!
01:01 < midnight> man I take handfuls of the stuff
01:01 < Emcy> well now im like, wtf that wasnt just me
01:01 < gmaxwell> weirdest expirence too. because it was SO sudden.
01:01 < midnight> Eat magnesium at least, it's good absorption, hard to overdose on it, and it increases calcium absorption without the risk of actually taking calcium.
01:01 < gmaxwell> one moment I'm feeling fine, and then next I'm barely making it to the bathroom 5 feet away.
01:02 < Emcy> yeah it was the weirdest puking i ever had. like stomach cramps suddenly and then heave ho
01:02 < gmaxwell> I'm dumb enough that I did it twice.  I didn't think the vitamin was related the first time.
01:02 < Emcy> lol same
01:02 < Emcy> i think i took 3 times for me to learn my lesson
01:03 < Emcy> thats so weird
01:03 < Emcy> well at least i know what that was about now
01:03 < Emcy> i earnestly jsut thought 'wow im getting old'
01:04 < midnight> what, that's not something that happens when you get old
01:04 < gmaxwell> well you always hear old people talk about random health issues.
01:05 < Emcy> my first impulse is to blame myself i guess
01:05 < Emcy> its weird that i never read anything about this either, was it an industry coverup lol
01:05 < midnight> spontaneous powerful vomiting after taking a vitamin pill is not one of those things lol
01:05 < midnight> but hey:  don't chew your medication when you get older ok
01:05 < gmaxwell> Emcy: yeah, I dunno, perhaps not cover up but that whole industry is kinda sketchy.
01:06 < Emcy> yeah thats true
01:06 < Emcy> i assumed that most of the stuff it says ont he box is homeopathic tier, but the tablets do actually carry the common vitamins they claim to
01:20 < phantomcircuit> midnight, it's actually not worth compressing this at all, the drive does a simple compression pass that is enough for the 'yup it's zeros' blocks
01:21 < phantomcircuit> im putting par2 data on other tapes
01:21 < phantomcircuit> mostly im worried about the tapes failing completely
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02:03 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/GeordieStory/status/1346525660509065217
02:03 < Emcy> so theyre kinda talking like its permanent now
02:03 < Emcy> UK at least
02:11 < Emcy> https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1347747037719261184 wanna see ACLU tied themselves in a pretzel over their [now] various loyalties lol
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03:42 < queip> Emcy: what is the correct thing ACLU should say about this, instead?
03:44 < Emcy> just say its terrifying the amount of civic power that SV has accrued under everyones noses, instead or re-framing it hypothetically around your pet brown people first because you cannot bear to give conservatism a millimetre of leeway lmao
03:45 < Emcy> "same" organisation that famously defended KKK speech in court. the change of tact is just breathtaking
03:45 < queip> indeed
03:46 < queip> "SV" = ?
03:46 < Emcy> silicon valley
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04:14 < nkuttler> Emcy: what you're saying makes no sense to me. you reject a statemet you support, because it supports more people than you support?
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04:44 < javi404> WTF do i do with Bitcoin SV in coinbase?
04:44 < javi404> i logged in after a long time to see what i had in there, how can I cash out?
04:53 < Veggen> javi: trade it to bitcoin?
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04:55 < Veggen> soemeone is pummping alts right now, so now should be a pretty good time to do so, too.
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05:28 < gmaxwell> Veggen: coinbase doesn' trade it
05:29 < gmaxwell> he'd have to find some shitcoin exchange that does
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05:44 < javi404> Veggen: trade to bitcoin in coinbase you mean?
05:46 < javi404> how the fuck did I even end up with it?
05:47 < javi404> gmaxwell: how did it get converted? I haven't logged into this account in more than a year.
05:47 < javi404> fuck coinbase.
05:47 < javi404> gmaxwell: what exchanges are there to cash out?
05:56 < AaronvanW> shitcoin exchanges
05:57 < waxwing> javi404, congratulations on making an on-topic post here. it's quite an achievement nowadays, lol
05:57 < javi404> lol
05:57 < javi404> I think i cashed out everything in coinbase a lont time ago, but somehow i have this bitcoin SV i never even fucking heard of. lol
05:57 < javi404> waxwing: thanks. lol
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05:59 < AaronvanW> https://sideshift.ai/ still works without needing to create an account. (never used it myself.)
05:59 < Entitlement> AaronvanW - [ SideShift.ai - No Sign-Up Crypto Exchange ]
05:59 < AaronvanW> I think https://changenow.io/ as well, but not sure.
05:59 < Entitlement> AaronvanW - [ ChangeNOW | Crypto Exchange | Fast BTC to ETH, XRP, BCH, XMR, NEO Exchange ]
06:09 < gmaxwell> AaronvanW: thanks!
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07:20 < grubles> hm so apparently tor is having some issues
07:22 < gmaxwell> hm?
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07:47 < gmaxwell> grubles: contet?
07:47 < gmaxwell> er context
07:49 < grubles> https://consensus-health.torproject.org/
07:49 < Entitlement> grubles - [ Consensus health ]
07:52 < grubles> everything seems ok client-side for me
07:56 < gmaxwell> grubles: re: parlor and gitlab, you should tell people to bookmark wumpus hidden service bitcoin repo mirror.
07:56 < qubenix> More info on the tor drama here: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2021-January/019201.html
07:56 < Entitlement> qubenix - [ [tor-relays] consensus ]
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07:59 < gmaxwell> Thanks.
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08:05 < grubles> gmaxwell: ya true
08:06 < grubles> he was doing something with radicle too i think
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08:17 < grubles> irony is that wumpus's repo is inaccessible at the moment
08:17 < grubles> >_<
08:18 < gmaxwell> it doesn't have to be reliably up to be a rescue point in event of massive censorship.
08:22 < grubles> good point
08:23 < grubles> i was able to access the bitcoincore.org v3 onion earlier today
08:26 < grubles> annnnd now it's down
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09:37 < Old_Man> Soooo I scoped out some comments on facebook, and it looks like most people crying about parler are also misspelling it "parlor"
09:37 < Old_Man> If they can't use it because they can't even fucking spell it right, I'm not bothering to point them to federated alternatives... don't want those people crudding up the internet
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10:09 < gmaxwell> maybe on all these HN threads where they hate on bitcoin I should just be repying with: If you're confident bitcoin is in a massive bubble and will crash soon, you can buy puts on it on LedgerX.
10:12 < sturles> I think Twitter shoudl have shut down the trump's account a long time ago, already when he told his retarded cult to take beach and fish medicine against Covid 19.  When he incited the anti-democracy rioters to attack the Congress it was already too late.  The man and his cult is dangerous, and his tweets kill innocent people.  Twitter shouldn't allow that, and I am not suprised that most of his
10:12 < sturles> cult can't find their way out of Twitter.
10:13 < cncr04s> no, silencing our political leaders is a violation
10:13 < Old_Man> You realize that Trump didn't tell anyone to take bleach (nor "beach"), and he didn't tell anyone to take fish medicine, right?
10:13 < Old_Man> The only thing worse than the unthinking cult of Trump devotion is the unthinking cult of Trump hatred.
10:13 < sturles> Silencing dangerous cult leaders is the only sane thing to do.
10:14 < Old_Man> Why? You can't refute them intelligently?
10:14 < Old_Man> Tell you what: when you have difficulty telling them why they're wrong, you just send them to me. I'm not as terrified of them as you are.
10:14 < Old_Man> You don't have to wave your tiny fist in the air to silence people. I can refute them intelligently for you.
10:15 < cncr04s> all the while the leader of iran tweets freely "death to america"
10:15 < sturles> https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166
10:15 < Entitlement> sturles - [ Man dies after taking chloroquine in an attempt to prevent coronavirus ]
10:15 < sturles> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/24/trump-disinfectant-bleach-coronavirus-claims-reaction
10:15 < Entitlement> sturles - [ ‘Please don’t inject bleach’: Trump’s wild coronavirus claims prompt disbelief |... ]
10:16 < cncr04s> stupid people are stupid
10:16 < Old_Man> Also, by the way, Trump didn't say a single word about violence in his speech to his supporters. CNN tried to change their headline so they wouldn't have to publish an apology, but I got a screenshot of the Google search result with their blatantly-false headline accusing him of it.
10:16 < Old_Man> sturles, neither one of your links say that Trump told anyone to do it. Thank you for providing evidence that your outpouring of hate is completely false.
10:16 < cncr04s> trump is not responsible for stupid people, stop illegal imoral blame
10:17 < Old_Man> Once again demonstrating that the only thing worse than the unthinking cult of Trump devotion is the unthinking cult of Trump hatred.
10:17 < sturles> Old_Man: The trump incites violence.  Five people died in the anti-democracy riots in Congress.
10:17 < sturles> He did nothing to defend it.
10:17 < Old_Man> Well, he *did* in fact tell them to respect law and order, to be peaceful, and to go home.
10:17 < cncr04s> oh and the violence from blm riots is ok with you I guess?
10:17 < sturles> When BLM had a peaceful demonstradion on Pennsylvania Avenue, hurting nobody, there were tanks in the streets.
10:18 < Old_Man> But, that's a different claim than your initial one that he incited violence. His speech never mentioned violence even once.
10:18 < sturles> Old_Man: Long after five people had died, and he still repeated his baseless conspiracy theories.
10:18 < Old_Man> Please stop making me defend Trump by spreading blatant and stupid falsehoods about him.
10:18 < Old_Man> sturles, that's not what "inciting violence" means. So now you're just committing the logical fallacy called "moving the goalposts."
10:19 < Old_Man> Once again demonstrating that the only thing worse than the unthinking cult of Trump devotion is the unthinking cult of Trump hatred.
10:19 < sturles> cncr04s: The BLM "riots" were mostly peaceful, until the right extremists came to fight them.
10:19 < cncr04s> lol thats a falsehood
10:20 < sturles> No, it isn't.
10:20 < cncr04s> blm riots here were violent burned down businesses, hurt and killed people
10:20 < sturles> The media exaggregated it greatly.
10:20 < cncr04s> I live in an area effected
10:20 < Old_Man> Let's talk about something not-Trump-related. When the IRS performs an audit of people's taxes, do they start with the assumption that the auditee is completely honest, and demand evidence of wrongdoing, or do they start with the assumption that the auditee has been dishonest, and demand evidence of their claims of correctness?
10:20 < cncr04s> so don't lecture me
10:21 < sturles> cncr04s: BLM held a peaceful protest on Pennsylvania Avenue, and the trump called the National guard with tanks.  What did he do to prevent the anti-democracy riots in Congress?
10:21 < sturles> Tweeting several hours after doesn't count-
10:22 < cncr04s> the guy is busy running a country
10:22 < cncr04s> national guard was called on the congress PROTEST too
10:23 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: A couple years back I found some webpage by a florida lawyer that went into detail what an audit looks like, and strategies for dealing with one.  Damned if I know how to find it.
10:23 < cncr04s> i need that link
10:23 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: my recollection is that the auditer will pick out specific things they believe were incorrect and ask for documentation to substantiate them.
10:23 < cncr04s> I get all sorts of shit related to coinbase records crap
10:24 < Old_Man> Are they *required* to provide evidence of what "they believe were incorrect," or do they go in with the hypothesis of incorrectness and ask for evidence to the contrary?
10:24 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: unfortuantely you're generally required to substantiate your claims. ... burden of proof is on the tax payer for most things.
10:25 < Old_Man> Why do you suppose that is?
10:25 < Old_Man> What's the underlying principle behind putting the burden of proof on the taxpayer, to prove that they did it correctly?
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10:25 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: well because the game is rigged, but to be more charitable: because in theory the tax payer has the most complete information access.
10:25 < Old_Man> Interesting. I wonder what would happen if we applied that principle to elections.
10:26 < Old_Man> Well, I have one idea of what would happen: probably we'd see a bunch of rage-induced spittle-flinging from sturles in here.
10:27 < Old_Man> Oh, wait, we have that already. Never mind.
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10:30 < sturles> cncr04s: Since you insist on calling the riots a "protest", tell me how many of the BLM protests where five or more people died directly caused by them.
10:30 < gmaxwell> sturles: hey man, ... since you're aware that the media generally exagerated the shit out of BLM protests, don't you think it's likely that they are also doing the same about more recent events?
10:30 < sturles> People don't get killed in a "protest" or "demonstration".
10:31 < Old_Man> Nor do people get injured in a "protest" or "demonstration."
10:31 < Old_Man> Nor does property get killed in a "protest" or "demonstration."
10:31 < sturles> gmaxwell: It doesn't look like it, by the videos broadcasted and posted on social media.
10:31 < Old_Man> Nor does property get injured in a "protest" or "demonstration."
10:32 < gmaxwell> sturles:  this has the figures you asked for https://acleddata.com/special-projects/us-crisis-monitor/
10:32 < Entitlement> gmaxwell - [ US Crisis Monitor | ACLED ]
10:33 < Old_Man> Hey, question: when people make those signs that say the names of black men killed, for use in BLM protests, why don't any of them ever say David Dorn's name?
10:34 < gmaxwell> sturles: how does all this stuff affect you personally?
10:38 < sturles> If social media platforms allow the incitement of violence, there will be more violence.  As simple as that.
10:38 < sturles> Thanks for the link, btw.
10:39 < Old_Man> I don't believe you know what "incitement to violence" even *means*.
10:40 < nkuttler> that doesn't sound like a constructive argument
10:40 < gmaxwell> sturles: are you in danger?  Has someone you know been hurt?
10:40 < Old_Man> I mean, if just saying things that are false is an incitement to violence, then you'd have to go commit suicide in shame, because you just did it yourself, by spreading falsehoods about Trump telling people to drink "beach" (bleach?) and take fish medicine.
10:40 < cncr04s> So there are a few factors to what happened wed. There is the protest where people just went down there on the urgement of the president "go down to the capitol and chant..". The other part is simply that the majority of people didnt engage in violent behaviour - and those that did were already planning co-opting the protest for their own riotus. That doesnt make the whole thing a riot.
10:40 < cncr04s> Its those idiots who went inside and broke and stole shit. Nor does it make the president responsible for it. Nothing he said called for violence.
10:41 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: 'have to go commit suicide in shame' is tasteless, surely you can debate without crap like that? :)
10:41 < sturles> gmaxwell: If it is allowed to escalate, eventually someone close to me will be in danger as well.
10:41 < Old_Man> Well I assume he's not so emotionally fragile that the hypothesis will be taken as an imperative.
10:41 < Old_Man> Maybe I'm wrong.
10:42 < gmaxwell> sturles: that sucks.  Is there anything you can to help protect them regardless of what happens?
10:42 < gmaxwell> Old_Man: it's just tasteless regardless of how anyone could take it. :P
10:43 < Old_Man> I happen to find the propagation of mindless falsehoods to be tasteless as well, so I'm not really considering what anyone else considers to be "tasteful." We passed my threshold for that some time ago.
10:43 < Old_Man> So, if sturles doesn't consider *my* threshold of tastefulness, then I don't really care much about his either.
10:43 < nkuttler> maybe you people should just talk about bitcoin forks, and not partisan politics
10:44 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [+o gmaxwell] by ChanServ
10:44 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [+b *!*nkuttler@unaffiliated/nkuttler] by gmaxwell
10:44 -!- nkuttler was kicked from #bitcoin-forks by gmaxwell [tired of you]
10:44 < Old_Man> That's a great idea. Hey, sturles, whaddya say?
10:46 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [-b *!*nkuttler@unaffiliated/nkuttler] by ChanServ
10:46 -!- nkuttler [~nkuttler@unaffiliated/nkuttler] has joined #bitcoin-forks
10:46 < nkuttler> gmaxwell: so, yeah, not cool
10:46 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [+o nkuttler] by ChanServ
10:47 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: you're not a regular participant in the channel, and haven't been for over a year.
10:47 <@nkuttler> so that means i can't say my opinion?
10:47 <@gmaxwell> yet both you and sturles cropped up recently and have treated the regulars with extreme hostility.
10:47 <@nkuttler> and you ban me when you disagree with me?
10:47 <@nkuttler> huh, what?
10:47 <@gmaxwell> I'm tired of it.
10:47 <@nkuttler> if you feel like i've been hostile, maybe you should discuss that with me
10:48 <@nkuttler> i didn't realize suggesting to stay on-topic is hostile
10:48 <@gmaxwell> 18:53 < gmaxwell> nkuttler: Why are you responding with hostility?
10:48 <@gmaxwell> I have.
10:48 <@nkuttler> gmaxwell: what was the context of that again?
10:49 <@nkuttler> was that when i asked you to clarify what you mean by a rheotorical question?
10:49 <@gmaxwell> 18:44 <nkuttler> i'm the channel founder, just remove the ban..
10:49 <@gmaxwell> ^ and thats also what I got in PM.
10:49 <@nkuttler> right, that's a fact
10:49 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: I'd like to ask you to remove your status in the channel, and respect the ban I established.
10:49 <@nkuttler> i don't agree with that
10:50 <@nkuttler> this is not the first time you threatened to ban or banned me btw, when i didn't agree with you. i see an unhealthy pattern in your behavior
10:51 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: You're not a participant in this channel.  It's not really your business how it's run.  If you don't like that, the channels active community will happily move to a channel that you don't have any influence in. You will not be welcome there.
10:51 < sturles> According to the data, the maximum nyumber of fatalities in any riot associated with BLM in 2020 is 2.
10:51 <@nkuttler> gmaxwell: i didn't enforce anything in here, you did
10:51 <@nkuttler> i merely stated my opinion
10:52 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: and you're evading the ban I set, which itself is ban worthy. Even if I made a dumb call in that case.
10:52 <@nkuttler> if you think the channel needs to move somewhere else because i state my opinion, that's really not an adult way of dealing with things
10:53 < sturles> And according to the site, the authorities often escalated demonstrations:
10:53 <@nkuttler> i can't ban evade in a channel i'm an op in..
10:53 < sturles> Despite the fact that demonstrations associated with the BLM movement have been overwhelmingly peaceful, more than 9% — or nearly one in 10 — have been met with government intervention, compared to 3% of all other demonstrations.
10:53 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: if it needs to move, it's because a non-particiant has waded in here, disrespected the regulars, and then asserts control over it, evading a ban.
10:53 < sturles> And: Over 5% of all events linked to the BLM movement have been met with force by authorities, compared to under 1% of all other demonstrations. In some contexts, like Seattle, Washington and Portland, Oregon (see below), the heavy-handed police response appears to have inflamed tensions and increased the risk of violent escalation
10:53 <@nkuttler> gmaxwell: i can agree to disagree on this
10:54 <@gmaxwell> welp, yet another #bitcoin namespace channel about to turn totally dead. Good job.
10:54 <@nkuttler> again, if you think this channel is dead because i state my opinion, you have a serious problem
10:55 <@nkuttler> if this channel can't survive disagreement, it should be closed anyway
10:55 < sturles> gmaxwell: If the incitement of violence is stopped at the source, e.g. by the social media where it originates, people will be better protected.
10:56 <@nkuttler> also, i'd like to apologize for behaving in ways that were obviously hostile to you. i didn't consider that you would consider a general remark on the channel topic hostile
10:56 <@gmaxwell> nkuttler: It has nothing to do with you stating an opinion.  Multiple people in here found your conduct hostile and surprising, which is fine.  But after I punted you for it (after raising the issue with you previously!) you've just overridden that.  So why should people participe in a channel where a non partcipant is going to evade bans with impunity?
10:56 < sturles> I did not mean to be hostile against anyone here.
10:56 <@nkuttler> gmaxwell: i'm not aware other people found my behavior hostile
10:57 <@gmaxwell> sturles: but yelling at people in here won't move that an inch. not people elsewhere either, probably whats going on can't but shut down at any scale short of shutting off the internet, but even if it can we're all powerless.
10:58 <@nkuttler> i mean, you have been discussing partisan politics in here for days, that's not the friendliest topic. i did not realize that my remarks, that i try to base on what i think are facts, were considered hostile
10:58 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [-o gmaxwell] by ChanServ
10:58 < sturles> Some people here think that Twitter and other social media platforms should allow to let their users use their services for free to incite violence.  I want to voice my opinion against that.  I think the platforms should be free to disallow it.
10:59 -!- mode/#bitcoin-forks [-o nkuttler] by ChanServ
10:59 < gmaxwell> I've removed myself. Enjoy your channel.
10:59 < cncr04s> lets not become facebook-twitter-google-aws-apple here now ;)
10:59 < sturles> And to kick people who don't follow their terms.
11:00 -!- gmaxwell [~procyonid@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has left #bitcoin-forks ["byebye"]
11:00 < nkuttler> well.. that's unfortunate
11:00 < DeadWeen> sturles: twitter has now suspended Syndey Powell, General Flynn, and now Tom Fitton
11:01 < DeadWeen> it's a coordinated purge of conservatives, has nothing to do with advocating violence
11:01 < cncr04s> free to censor is not a freedom
11:02 < Old_Man> sturles, what about repeating falsehoods that were already disproved, but still used to stir up hatred?
11:02 < cncr04s> i've never advocated censoring people I disagree with. Its a shame its happening these days
11:03 < sturles> Old_Man: What falsehoods?
11:03 < cncr04s> wait untill they censor you for something is all I have to say.
11:03 < sturles> I have never advocated cencoring people I disagree with either.
11:06 < Old_Man> sturles, any. It's a question about the general principle.
11:06 < sturles> Michael Flynn?  Isn't he in jail?
11:06 < DeadWeen> lol no he is a free man
11:07 < Old_Man> And then, once I know what you think about the general principle, we'll apply it to your repeating the falsehoods that Trump told anyone to drink bleach, or to take fish medicine, or that he incited violence.
11:07 < DeadWeen> there was doj and fbi misconduct that his lawyer syndey powell exposed, so, eventually, the case ended in dismissal
11:09 < queip> "<sturles> Silencing dangerous cult leaders is the only sane thing to do." ... so like, the 12 Apostle? Or like, Copernicus? They almost silenced Luther King too. Currently China and best Korea are very effective at that
11:09 < sturles> Ah, of course.  He pleaded guilty, but was pardoned by the weakest president ever on crime.
11:10 < sturles> which of those you mentioned incited violence?
11:10 < DeadWeen> The case was already wrapping up, the president only pardoned him because the judge went rogue after the prosecution withdrew
11:11 < DeadWeen> and he only change to a guilty plea because they threatened his children
11:11 < queip> sturles: it is sad to see you repeating that lies from CNN, if someone is so stupid he drinks random chemicals because they have kind similar name or some of components to something. Btw anyway that particular case one theory that makes more sense is that wife poisoned him
11:11 < DeadWeen> even the fbi agents who interviewed him said they did not believe he lied
11:12 < DeadWeen> it was a political hit job from start to finish
11:13 < queip> sturles: and the peaceful demonstration (especially when using the naming that was the norm in USA for last 6 months, where burning people alive is "mostly peaceful") were in favour of making sure there is no election fraud
11:13 < DeadWeen> He was the head of DIA and called out Obama for his policy of funding, arming and training terror groups against asad in syria
11:14 < queip> sturles: you sound like total propaganda tube. I would recommend to read other sources then CNN and start thinking for your own. Also, note that under your proposition 1) there would be no other sources to read and consider other views, people like we who just replied to you on IRC would be banned or worse  and 2) under different years, you would be the one banned for your opinion, or worse. Maybe move to North Korea if you like this style
11:15 < DeadWeen> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
11:15 < Entitlement> DeadWeen - [ Timber Sycamore - Wikipedia ]
11:15 < sturles> Old_Man: I documented both my claims.  Trum suggested to take chloroquine against the virus and to inject disinfectants.
11:15 < queip> (by CNN I mean all MSM media that have this narrative, btw)
11:15 < DeadWeen> he never told anyone to take chloroquine
11:15 < Old_Man> sturles, no, in the two links you provided, neither one says Donald Trump told anyone to do those things.
11:16 < sturles> queip: I don't watch CNN at all, so how could I repeat their "lies"+
11:16 < queip> sturles: where from did you got that lie that Trump supposedly told someone to take rn some chemical on their own?
11:16 < Old_Man> It's possible that you just picked the wrong sources, though, so why don't you go ahead and copy/paste his exact words into this channel, where he told anyone to drink bleach or take fish medicine.
11:17 < cncr04s> disinfectants can men in general antivirals, not bleach. it was a flub of a comment, gwarsh don't bash a mans head in for it
11:17 < sturles> queip: The most people who ever died in a BLM riot is 2.  The riots escalated due to the police (which they protested against, mind you) turned up in large numbers, and so did nazis driving into the crowds.
11:18 < queip> sturles: also, do not take it personally. I am rather looking to arrive at reasonable opinion, hopefully in a friendly way despite all
11:18 < sturles> Old_Man: Watch the video.
11:19 < sturles> No, antivirals are not disinfectants.
11:19 < sturles> Antivirals don't disinfect anything.
11:20 < cncr04s> sturtles: I can garuntee you thats false, 2 killed here by me in kenosha and 1 in the chop zone in seattle. thats 3, hypothesis proven false I don't need to go on further.
11:21 < queip> sturles: are you talking about that video where says he *thinks* maybe someone should *investiage* the *possilibity* of creating a protocol using various chemicals? Is it the same as saying "yeah go ahead and all drink any random products that contain that chemicals, even if they are poison and absolutely not for consumption"?
11:21 < sturles> cncr04s: That is two riots, and the maximum number in any one of them is 2.
11:22 < cncr04s> there goes the goalposts
11:22 < sturles> queip: He later claims it was "sarcasm": https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-was-being-sarcastic-comments-about-injecting-disinfectants-n1191991
11:22 < Entitlement> sturles - [ Trump says he was being sarcastic with comments about injecting disinfectants ]
11:23 < queip> sturles: but did he told to DO it, or to maybe do a research in that direction?
11:23 < sturles> cncr04s: I haven't moved any goalposts.
11:23 < Old_Man> Okay, I watched the video. There were no words in it that referred to violence, at all, not a single one.
11:23 < sturles> cncr04s: Some here refuse to call the anti-democracy riots for riots because only five people died.
11:23 < Old_Man> So is "watch the video" your concession that your accusation was a falsehood and you're a fucking liar? Or would you like to try again, to back up your accusation with a direct quote?
11:25 < cncr04s> you have moved them. if there were 1000 riots each with 1 killed, except one which had 2, and you claim, "oh only 2 were killed" is such a narrow view,
11:25 < sturles> Old_Man: What video?  Where he talked about injecting disinfectants?  No, there is no talk about violence there, but it is a very dangerous idea to spread.
11:26 < queip> I will wait for reply to my Q above, I know fighting 2 front is a bit not construcitve
11:26 < Old_Man> Okay, I watched that video too, and there was not a single instruction to anyone to actually do it.
11:26 < Old_Man> So is "watch the video" your concession that your accusation was a falsehood and you're a fucking liar? Or would you like to try again, to back up your accusation with a direct quote?
11:27 < sturles> cncr04s: YOU are moving the goalpost when you compare ONE riot with the sum of hundreds of demonstrations and riots.
11:27 < cncr04s> I am not, those riots are all connected
11:27 < cncr04s> you can't just focus on one
11:27 < queip> Old_Man: remember that we try to be frens here?  while I am very angry at the idea of political censorship, I will try to avoid calling names (at least from now, well beside a tube... but at least no cursing)
11:28 < Old_Man> Oh, are we trying to lie to our frens now? To spread partisan hatred based on being a fucking liar? I think it would be nice if we could be "frens" by NOT doing that.
11:28 < Old_Man> By, like, telling the truth to each other instead. Wouldn't that be nice and friendly?
11:29 < queip> cncr04s: to be advocate of opposing side, I *guess* strutles means to count kills / protest.  or kills / amount of protesters.   Tbh it seems fair overall.  And btw, in that "category" the anti-croocked-democrats movement is "winning" too, *if* we count not number of people dead, but number of people dead as result of *attack by rioters*.   Can we agree this is fair?
11:30 < sturles> cncr04s: The add the casualties of other riots where e.g. Qanon were involved as well.
11:30 < queip> Old_Man: I propose to avoid using cursewords here
11:30 < Old_Man> Like this: "We don't actually know if any election fraud happened, because the security measures that have been advocated first by the cypherpunk community, and then by the computer and network security professionals that arose after the 1990s, have never been implemented. Election tallying software is still closed-source, there are many jurisdictions without signature-based chain-of-custody
11:31 < Old_Man> auditability, and almost nowhere requires close-field video of the tallying process." Those statements are true, so I share them with you because I like to share true statements with people.
11:31 < Old_Man> Fuck that. :D
11:32 < sturles> cncr04s: And then it gets very complcated, because in the BLM protests BLM have often been up against Qanon, Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, Boogaloo etc as well.
11:32 < Old_Man> But then you have these fucking idiots who are like, "yes, we have sufficient data to judge whether election fraud happened, and the answer is yes it happened," and even more fucking idiots who insist, "yes, we have enough data to know whether election fraud happened, and no it didn't." Both of those partisan groups are fucking retards.
11:32 < sturles> So i have always referred to single incidents, not trying to add up.
11:33 < sturles> You are moving the goalposts by adding events.
11:34 < queip> cncr04s: sturles:   can we agree that the objective metric of violence of protest, is  (amount of damage caused to other side  + to outsiders) / (number of protest man-hours)   more or less?
11:35 < queip> if some protesters for X do all suicide, or half of them accidentally kills themselves, then this is not really violent,  not in the way as going out and burning a city. is this reasonable assumption sturles?
11:37 < sturles> Number of fatalities per hour, perhaps?
11:38 < queip> sturles: so this means a protest of 100 people who decided to all self-burn in protest of concentration camp would be the most violent protest ever. is that what you mean really?
11:38 < queip> and is x24 more violent if they do it around noon instead of each taking their time to do it over course of 1 day
11:38 < sturles> If people are squeezed to death between other rioters and the police, it still counts as sa fatality.  I don't know that protesters have killed themselves.
11:38 < cncr04s> I'm not looking to add up deaths on each side, only to simply state that you can't choose a single one and claim its the template for them all. Regardless, I travelled this summer through both minneapolis and portland and I can say it was scary. I have video of debris and other damage along interstate 5. I just want to be able to go out and not be in fear.
11:41 < queip> sturles: well I see a difference between when a protester intentionally bashes over the head a man for heaving opposing political views,  versus someone dying in an accident that was not intended at all.  it counts, right?
11:43 < queip> sturles: for example BLM killed on of their own when toppling over a monument. It was 100% accident. Even though it was a fellony/crime, because it was totally accidental, I do not count it as violent (the dying part).  If it would be random by standard that was surprised by it, then I would held them partially responsible as some endangerment of life (which is less then 1 intentional kill, but is something)
11:44 < nkuttler> i wouldn't call that an accident, that sounds reckless
11:45 < sturles> I don't have any statistics showing the cause of death.  Anyway 5 > 2.  Even if you only count the killed police and the retarded woman who got shot, 2 = 2.
11:45 -!- vtnerd [~vtnerd@50-81-138-206.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
11:46 < queip> sturles: blm etc intentionally killed 1 cop, tried to kill at least that guy in famous lock-bike case, burned 2 alive (accident imo), at least 2 died in shootouts in CHAZ.  it was over long time.   repulican/anti-D protests attacked 0 people with intent to kill. some on their side died accidnetialy.  1 on their side was killed by agent
11:47 < sturles> But then agaoin I have no idea what the 2 people who died in Kenosha or Cook died of.  In kenosha Boogaloo Bois and some militia was involved as well.
11:47 < queip> I think the most obvious thing how ever, is that they set on fire and looted DOZEN OF CITIES, for MONTHS.   this, versus breaking 2 bariers to get to people who supposedly represent you
11:48 < nkuttler> and killing a cop while doing that
11:48 < queip> but then BLM also did that, to Wheeler (spelling?) they rioted under his home, broke in, started a small fire. they also beaten him in in the restaurant just days ago
11:49 < queip> sturles: oh Im not even counting that 3 guys who tried to chase that 1 kid with riffle, yeah there was that too
11:49 < sturles> It was pretty clear that the anti-democracy rioters didn't want to be represented by democratically elected representatives, do that doesn't count.
11:50 < sturles> queip: You are still moving the goalposts by talking about several separate incidents as one.
11:50 < queip> so I think fair characterisation of both sides, without looking at intentions that "justify it" (or not) is that ANTIFA+BLM burned and looted for MONTHS and terrorized dozens of CITIES.  do you say this is the same thing as people breakin 2 doors, brawling a bit with security, and all to show their REPRESENTATIVES they are mad (and stole pieces of evidence, illegally)?
11:51 < queip> do you honestly think this is the same (or even that the city burning was better!)? really?
11:52 < nkuttler> to me, interfering with state functions, like certifying the presidential vote is certainly a bigger crime towards the state than looting some cities
11:52 < queip> nkuttler: we are talking about violence level, not about other aspects currently
11:52 < queip> I can discuss other aspects too, just wanted to get this one out of the way first
11:53 < nkuttler> violence against the state is violence
11:53 < queip> nkuttler: no
11:54 < sturles> The use of force by the police clearly escalated many BLM protests into riots: https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/
11:54 < Entitlement> sturles - [ Demonstrations & Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020 | ACLED ]
11:55 < sturles> queip: "brwaling a bit with security"?  Two people got killed in that "brawl" FFS!
11:56 < queip> sturles: well, the ones that pushed police, they are the ones that died, yes? or did someone in police died
11:56 < sturles> Yes, one police officer died.
11:57 < queip> sturles: in current 2021 capitol event? as result of what?
11:57 < nkuttler> queip: smashed his head with either a fire extinquisher, or a flagpole. unclear yet
11:58 < queip> yea well if that is as you present it here, then this part would be violent, sure
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12:00 < queip> my turn, do you recognize ANTIFA/BLM protests were violent too, based on arson looting and other physical violence?
12:02 < sturles> Yes, many of those turned violent.  Especially after the states began to use force to stop peaceful demonstrations.
12:03 < sturles> Sending lots of police to stop a protest against the police unsurprisingly didn't work out very well.
12:03 < queip> ok so we are in some form of consensus that both had some level of violence.  I can later explain why I think this one had it far less
12:05 < queip> now I wanted to clarify that point brought up by you sturles, about using chemicals. I also watched this speeches, and their longer version not just the middle cut out by CNBC or who ever from MSM.  There is no case where Trump would actually say people should go and drink some chemicals (besides researched drugs etc).  If there would be, then plz show it
12:06 < queip> cncr04s also viewed this and has same conclusion it seems. are we missing something? or maybe the media framed it for you to conflate "maybe research" with "just go and drink this chemical in any substances it is a part of"
12:06 < Old_Man> And please copy-and-paste it as a direct quote. "Watch the video" is exactly the same as homeopathy quacks saying "do your research."
12:07 < Old_Man> Copy and paste it as a direct quote, along with the link of where you found it.
12:09 < sturles> OK, I found more data about the two BLM protests where 2 people died.  Here is the one in Kenosha:
12:09 < sturles> A teenager shot and killed two demonstrators and injured another. The teenager was responding to a Kenosha Guard call-to-action called the ''Armed Citizens to Protect our Lives and Property'' and joined a security detail including the Kenosha Guard and local Boogaloo Bois, but reportedly was not a member of the two groups. Police reportedly welcomed the suspect and other armed individuals present
12:09 < sturles> at the demonstration prior to the shooting. The teenager was not detained at the scene, but was later arrested and has since been charged with homicide
12:09 < sturles> The teenager was obviously not connected to BLM, but some armed group.
12:10 < Old_Man> Kenosha was a pretty unique situation, because they were not protesting for civil rights. They were trying to voice their support for unpunished rape.
12:11 < queip> sturles: you mean the hero who stopped a rioter from arsoning a gas station, then BLM mob chased him with intent to beat up / kill, and it last second he turned back and shoot the assailants? The one where the BLM guys shot turned out to be a sex offender and a robber? (the later part is not directly connected because he didn't know that while shooting in defence, but anyway funny tidbit)
12:11 < Old_Man> They were sticking up for a guy who was wanted, and being arrested, for rape of a black woman.
12:11 < Old_Man> So every single person who took to the streets was advocating for raping black women and leaving them with zero justice.
12:11 < sturles> The other one in Cicero, Illinois, isn't clear about who shot two bystanders:
12:11 < sturles> On 1 June 2020, people demonstrated and rioted, vandalizing and looting stores, in Cicero (Illinois) in support of the Black Lives Matter movement and against police brutality. Police intervened and 60 people were arrested. Two bystanders were shot dead during the riot
12:12 < Old_Man> But, in addition to supporting the rape of black women, I guess this also means we don't get our quote of Trump telling people to drink bleach, or take fish medicine.
12:12 < sturles> queip: I wouldn't call murderers heros.
12:12 < queip> sturles: how do you call a person who stopped gas station from being arsoned?
12:13 < sturles> If he did so in a peaceful way he would be a hero.  Only cowards would murder to prevent a fire.  Seriously.
12:13 < queip> kid killing in self-defence 3 people that try to kill him, is at least neutral, but I put it as positive since we have then less violent bandits in the world
12:13 < DeadWeen> strules: it is pretty clear that both of his killings were self defense
12:14 < queip> sturles: that is not what happened. I written what did happened just above, please re-read carefuly
12:14 < sturles> He would claim that, of course.  The only defence he can think of.
12:15 < nkuttler> i wouldn't call somebody who kills in self-defence a hero. that somebody who had no choice
12:15 < Old_Man> Did anybody try to whack him in the head with a skateboard?
12:15 < DeadWeen> It just happens to be true and was bourne out in court
12:15 < queip> sturles: we have lots of video evidence. Due to MSM censorship it is possible you missed it.   This is btw why we need to avoid censorship
12:16 < sturles> I don't believe in the self defence theory.  He clearly came there armed with the intent to kill someone.
12:16 < sturles> If he didn't want trouble, he should have stayed at home.
12:16 < queip> sturles: the BLM rioter was literally swinging his skate board at his head.  next one was literally pulling a gun at him.  2 second seconds later and Kale the hero who stop violent arsonists from BLM would be dad.
12:16 < queip> sturles: the BLM rioter was literally swinging his skate board at his head.  next one was literally pulling a gun at him.  2 second seconds later and Kale the hero who stop violent arsonists from BLM would be dead.
12:17 < Old_Man> I'm sorry; I didn't get an answer to my question. Did anybody try to whack that kid in the head with a skateboard?
12:17 < Old_Man> Because I saw lots of people claiming that someone tried to whack him in the head with a skateboard. Does anybody know if anyone tried to whack him in the head with a skateboard?
12:17 < sturles> If some armed guy were there to kill me, I would probably hit him as well.  Self defence.
12:17 < queip> sturles: so your argument is that no one should be a hero, because if we kill bad guys then we are bad, so we should just stay home?? wtf??
12:18 < Old_Man> sturles, what did the shooter do to the skateboard dude before the skateboard dude tried to whack him in the head with his skateboard?
12:18 < sturles> The people trying to stop the murderer were obviously the heroes here.  Unfortunately they were unsuccessful.
12:18 < queip> sturles: wtf?
12:19 < sturles> Old_Man: I have no idea.
12:19 < sturles> He showed up armed to a protest.
12:19 < Old_Man> So, if you have no idea, then you don't know whether the skateboard attack was justified or not?
12:19 < sturles> That shows malicious intent.
12:19 < DeadWeen> to protect property is not malicious intent
12:19 < DeadWeen> that was his stated goal
12:19 < queip> sturles: and they guy who show at same protest with a gun shows what?
12:20 < sturles> You don't want armed people at protests.
12:20  * Old_Man idly wonders why sturles didn't also suggest that, if the dead people didn't want to get shot, they should have just stayed at home too.
12:20 < sturles> Intent to kill someone.
12:20 < Old_Man> That couldn't possibly because... sturles is just a mindlessly-partisan hate-screamer, could it?
12:20 < queip> sturles: so the BLM guy with gun also had intent to kill someone?
12:20 < Old_Man> Has sturles done anything else recently to suggest that he's just a mindlessly-partisan hate-screamer?
12:20 < sturles> The BLM guy should have left his gun at home as well.
12:21 < Old_Man> Like, throw out provably-false accusations?
12:21 < nkuttler> you all look partisan to me tbh
12:21 < queip> sturles: cool but can you reply to my full question, just to confirm it?
12:21 < sturles> Old_Man: I proved both my accusations.
12:21 < Old_Man> nkuttler, I know. I hate that. That's why I told sturles earlier to stop making me defend Trump.
12:21 < Old_Man> sturles, no, you were asked repeatedly to provide the quote, and you failed to do it.
12:22 < Old_Man> But you're welcome to try it again right now.
12:22 < Old_Man> So do it. Provide the quotes.
12:22 < Old_Man> Copy and paste them, right here, right now, into this IRC window.
12:22 < sturles> I provied you with a video embedded in a newspaper article.
12:22 < Old_Man> But, in that video, he did not do what you said he did.
12:22 < Old_Man> You were lying about that as well.
12:22 < sturles> Yes, he did.
12:22 < Old_Man> So, if you're not a lying, partisan piece of shit, copy and paste the quote, right here, right now.
12:22 < Old_Man> Right into this IRC window.
12:23 < sturles> He suggested disinfectant injections, and later claimed it was sarcasm.
12:23 < queip> Old_Man: lol come down
12:23 < Old_Man> "Suggested?" That's a stupid paraphrase. Come on; copy and paste it right now.
12:23 < Old_Man> Quote it.
12:23 < queip> but yea, do quote it, because it seems we do not see it anywhere
12:23 < sturles> Google the exact quotes yourself if you need them.
12:24 < Old_Man> So that's a "no," then. You can't do it.
12:24 < sturles> the video is even texted ffs.
12:24 < Old_Man> You have no evidence. Got it.
12:24 < Old_Man> See, this is the problem with these partisans: they're all fucking lying pieces of shit, just like sturles has just demonstrated.
12:25 < Old_Man> They pollute intelligent conversations with blatant falsehoods, and then they're like, "Hurr hurr hurr do ur research" like a homeopathy quack.
12:25 < sturles> "And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."
12:25 < sturles> SIC
12:25 < Old_Man> "Is there a way" is telling people to do it?
12:25 < Old_Man> Is that your assertion? That when someone says, "is there a way," they're saying, "go out and do this?"
12:25 < queip> thanks for text sturles, I do not have audio here
12:26 < Old_Man> I want to take a screenshot of this, to include it in an article. If you believe that, when Trump says, "is there a way," he means, "go do this," then I want you to say that as a standalone line on IRC so it makes a nice clean screenshot.
12:27 < phantomcircuit> sturles, the standard for self defense in the us is reasonably simple, did you fear for your life or the life of another? was that fear reasonable?
12:27 < Old_Man> Go ahead and say so now.
12:27 < DeadWeen> CNN: "Trump tells americans to inject bleach"
12:27 < DeadWeen> for months
12:27 < phantomcircuit> sturles, the answer to both of those questions for kyle is clearly yes
12:27 < phantomcircuit> that's it
12:27 < phantomcircuit> full stop
12:27 < queip> sturles: ok so this quote above, it is a *question*, can we do something, and it is about doing something *like* that not literally that. Right, sturles?
12:27 < phantomcircuit> doesn't matter that being there in the first place was stupid
12:27 < cncr04s> I'm independant, but its obvious which way I lean these days.I only support my views so in that case I will support who I think is the lessor of two evils. I can only say that I hope that from my perspective that the "left" has been just as violent as the right doesnt further curtail our freedoms and that I hope I don't have to come back and say "I told you so."
12:28 < Old_Man> Come on; I'm waiting for my screenshot opportunity here.
12:28  * queip friendly waves at phantomcircuit
12:28 < Old_Man> Please tell us that, when Trump said, "is there a way," that you think that what he meant was, "people should try this now."
12:29 < nkuttler> that's how i remember it, he asked if some research could be done into it
12:29 < Old_Man> And that when someone says, "something like that," he means, "doing exactly that."
12:29 < Old_Man> Please go ahead and say that that's what you think Trump meant.
12:29 < queip> cncr04s: for the record Im mostly ancap *shrug* :)
12:29 < Old_Man> I want to do a nice little A/B graphic with what Trump actually said on the left, and what sturles said he said on the right.
12:30 < Old_Man> Oh come on sturles; don't get all coy on us now! You've repeated falsehoods several times, and we know you don't have the tiniest bit of conscience about being a lying piece of shit. Come on; give me a nice clean quote for the B-side of my infographic!
12:31 < queip> Old_Man: just give him some time to reply, you know people sometimes AFK right
12:31 < Old_Man> Just think of it; you could be famous. That horrid horrid Trump fellow's words on one side, yours on the other... it could make you famous!
12:32 < Old_Man> queip, but that's the funny thing though: every single time a Democrat partisan gets busted out for saying something wrong, they always, always, always just magically disappear. Never an honest apology, never a change of mind, never a concession. It's always very suddenly mealtime, or the kids are calling or the cat is horking, or they have paint that urgently needs supervision in its drying
12:32 < Old_Man> process.
12:33 < Old_Man> At http://democrateconomics.com/tactics/#bravesirrobin it's even documented under the name, "The Brave Sir Robin."
12:33 < Entitlement> Old_Man - [ Tactics - Democrat Economics ]
12:34 < Old_Man> I very much like the Carl Sagan quote under it, on that page.
12:34 < cncr04s> most of my channels are for somereason on political topics currently
12:35 < queip> Imm gona clear my room in the meantime, if not replying right away to any Q sent at me :)
12:35 < sturles> Old_Man: Some of his retarded cult will surely intepret that as "do exactly that".
12:36 < queip> sturles: and do you?
12:36 < Old_Man> Yes, of course people will do incredibly stupid shit. I mean look at you; you just tried to pawn off popular falsehoods of a partisan brainwashing cult in a channel with people who have IQs over 80! :D You gotta admit, that shit was retarded, that you just tried to do, right there.
12:37 < Old_Man> So, I expect your bottom-end-of-the-bell-curve people will take fish medicine and riot in the streets of Kenosha in support of a man who raped a black woman.
12:37 < Old_Man> Your people don't have any scruples to prevent that kind of activity.
12:39 < Old_Man> "Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion." -Mohamad Safa
12:39 < queip> sturles: there are idiots in the world that will interpret anything as anything, this is why we use standards like "would a reasonable person userstand X as call to ...".  Is it in your opinion a reasonable understanding of "can we research if X can cure Y" as "you should right now drink lots of X in any form even as toxic, not-consumable substance, even if you do not have Y at all"  ?
12:40 < queip> even more... "can we research if *something like* X can cure Y".
12:41 < queip> scientist saying "We research if gamma-knife can cure this certain cancer" is telling people to go and visit Chernobyl and try to inject corium?
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12:58 < buZz> extrapolaaaaate
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13:00 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher
13:17 < queip> I think indeed we managed to counter narrative that was based on, well, lies. Unless there are some new facts or considerations we missed, e.g. if sturles have any, it sure would be cool to withdraw previous position and acknowledge it
13:20 < queip> but with or without it, it's nice that people here managed to discuss in productive way overall, even if for many that was not "in favour" of their fellings (e.g. not liking the "defendant")
13:20 < waxwing> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2021-January/019201.html
13:20 < Entitlement> waxwing - [ [tor-relays] consensus ]
13:20 < waxwing> don't be rude guys
13:21 < queip> waxwing: I think we're getting there ;)
13:21 < waxwing> i was joking about what's in the link, not the discussion here
13:21 < queip> ah. waxwing what's with the linked discussion, tldr? I don't get it
13:22 < belcher> i just read it and didnt entirely get the joke
13:22 < waxwing> v3 onions down
13:22 < queip> waxwing: its a bug?
13:22 < cncr04s> tor is filled with honeypots
13:22 < waxwing> "It appears that somebody has made their own Tor client implementation
13:22 < waxwing> and it fetches its dir info in a very rude way."
13:22 < belcher> no queip an attack
13:22 < belcher> heh
13:23 < queip> OH you know what! I wonder if that is part of the bigtech attack.
13:23 < cncr04s> wouldnt surprise me
13:23 < waxwing> 'network is still working' according to dingledine; for me, tor is working but v3 onions aren't
13:23 < queip> funny just yesteradays I said that tor and freenet can't work in scale because they run on communism/altruism only, and it is a miracle Tor works but it will stop at some point
13:24 < queip> dunno if "txfee" would help with this particular attack, maybe not so much, but overall eventually altruism runs out
13:25 < waxwing> queip, yeah it's kind of miraculous that Tor works generally, we've come to rely on it way too much, due to the lack of an alternative
13:25  * waxwing mumbles something vague about hashcash
13:25 < queip> waxwing: needs txfee
13:26 < queip> hash cash is just antruism + Im happy someone's wasting a cpu XD
13:28 < queip> nkuttler: I am not sure why you were banned, and I would probably asked for it if seen in backlog; indeed for quite long time this channel is mostly few guys heaving nerd-offtopic, plus scheming to drown bch faster. would be nice to return to that I guess
13:29 < queip> (asked can it be -b)
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13:57 < Emcy> what the fuck happened in here?
14:01 < buZz> altruism* i assume
14:01 < queip> buZz: indeed it was a typo
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14:17 < queip> surprise key(not-)signing party. I am RSA 4096 E138 1750 B987 1C46 4569  7D2B 4A03 A1EF F86B C643 , and ed25519 5FC1 1D17 B103 D718 BF22  DCED C912 D4BE 1A8F FCD0 . gnupg pgp. there, now everyone has it on disk in log \o/
14:21 < grubles> Emcy: gmax left :-(
14:22 < grubles> v3 onions are sporadic for me
14:23 < Emcy> god damn it
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14:24 < Emcy> nkuttler why dude? you have been weirdly hostile lately
14:25 < nkuttler> Emcy: i'm really not sure how i have been hostile
14:25 < Emcy> yes ok people are talking about a lot of stuff not related to forks of bitcoin [though we still talk about bitcoin forks a lot]
14:26 < nkuttler> i know that gmaxwell was all on the narrative of peaceful protest inside the capitol, and i disagreed with that, i'm not sure if that makes me hostile
14:26 < Emcy> but its been over 3 years since bcash forked......the fork stuff has died down, so this channel was either going to evolve in its topics, or just die too
14:26 < Emcy> in fact the last time gmax left for 6 months, this place was totally dead
14:27 < Emcy> nkuttler no youve just been weirdly snarky to gmax and others and its not clear why, other than the general patter in here is rubbing up against some political bias you hold yourself
14:28 < Emcy> thats why i havent been responding to you lately, because i didnt want to end up causing a scene and making this channel unpleasant for others. but fuck it.
14:28 < queip> nkuttler: I wouldn't call it as that, but I guess regulars were ok with discussing current events.  But then again I know people can come up in other way they indented, esp on internet
14:28 < nkuttler> i mean... if you people discuss politics, you have your own biases
14:29 < nkuttler> sure i have my own, but i try to have arguments based on fact
14:29 < Emcy> none that cause me to snark other people.....there is like, the entire rest of the internet for that
14:30 < nkuttler> again, not sure when i was snarky
14:30 < Emcy> actually do you know how nice it is/was to have ONE SINGLE PLACE on the internet where people of different persuasions could robustly discuss current events without ending up snarking each other and having bad blood
14:30 < nkuttler> i asked gmax to clarify a question he had
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14:31 < nkuttler> if you keep calling me snarky, could you kindly provide a quote?
14:31 < nkuttler> i mean, gmax told me i was gorging on an orgy of violence.. frankly, that's insulting, yet i don't whine about it
14:32 < nkuttler> for linking to actual videos of events that happened
14:32 < nkuttler> and that were being discussed here
14:34 < nkuttler> Emcy: and, actually, i'm not the one who removed somebody from here for talking about something
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14:37 < Emcy> >an 09 07:27:19 <gmaxwell>	nkuttler: are you trying to insult me or?
14:37 < Emcy> Jan 09 07:27:34 <nkuttler>	gmaxwell: did it work?
14:38 < Emcy> like why be like this?
14:38 < nkuttler> Emcy: i misjudged the situation. i thougt it was obvious my remark was a joke
14:38 < Emcy> Jan 07 19:03:53 <nkuttler>	gmaxwell: you seem to be fixated on telling the story that violence stopped magically when they stepped through the door
14:39 < Emcy> this reads as accusatory etc
14:39 < nkuttler> Emcy: i stand by that
14:39 < nkuttler> i mean, come on..
14:39 < nkuttler> you can't discuss politics and present your point of view, and than be unable to deal with somebody who doesn't agree
14:40 < Emcy> Jan 07 18:56:24 <nkuttler>	gmaxwell: you seem to cherry pick your sources. go watch the videos where they violently tore down barriers, and then tell me they magically were peaceful the moment they stepped inside
14:40 < nkuttler> like i just said, context was he told me i gorge on violence, that's not supre friendly either
14:40 < Emcy> this is also accusatory/uncharitable etc
14:40 < Emcy> look i wont go on with this
14:40 < nkuttler> i mean, i hear you
14:41 < nkuttler> i could have said this in a nicer way
14:41 < Emcy> im fucking upset that gmax has left, not gonna lie
14:41 < nkuttler> yeah, i'm also upset that he left. but i'm also upset that he banned me when i suggested when people were hostile to each other that politics is maybe not the best subject
14:42 < queip> maybe that just discourse? It took so much restraint to not slap sturles over internet hour ago and instead proceed logically, with limiting insults to "propagandist" :P    Dunno I just want to us continue logical and generally friendly approach
14:43 < nkuttler> political discussion rarely stays perfectly civil. i mean, it's a noble goal to have, but it's not realistic. if everybody is nice to each other you probably have an echo chamber
14:44 < nkuttler> Emcy: thank you for bringing those quotes btw
14:44 < phantomcircuit> Emcy, i think as a general rule if you make gmaxwell leave the channel you insta lose the argument
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14:46 < Emcy> nkuttler actually the political shit was *remarkably* civil in here until you started talking again, even where people seriously disagreed
14:46 < Emcy> i really have to point that out
14:46 < nkuttler> by talking again, you mean in general, or right before i was banned?
14:47 < Emcy> look i think its obvious which side of things you fall on, and thats fine. Discussions just seems to have rubbed some bias you have, and caused you to be less than civil on occasion, in particular to gmax which is what i dont understand??? him of all people?
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14:48 < Emcy> nkuttler i mean in general. You were an absent landlord for a long time and then you came back, took a look at the regulars here and seem to have decided you dont like it
14:48 < nkuttler> well
14:49 < Emcy> ok fine, you founded the channel. But so what?
14:49 < Emcy> its been years, things change
14:49 < nkuttler> like phantomcircuit just suggest, gmax is a kind of monarch in here. when the monarch says something i disagree with, i'm more inclined to respond
14:49 < nkuttler> it's possible i guess that i responded more to him
14:50 < Emcy> not a monarch, hes is well respected for very good reason
14:50 < phantomcircuit> nkuttler, you lose the argument cause if he leaves you crossed from discussing to belligerence
14:50 < phantomcircuit> i was mostly in here cause he talked here anyways
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14:50 < queip> wtf stop leaving
14:53 < Old_Man> I think I remember from a few years ago, though, that he does occasionally get in particularly-sensitive moods sometimes.
14:54 < Old_Man> Anyway, I think I talked one of my shootin' buddies into quitting facebook messenger and he says he downloaded an IRC client. What's the best network these days for IRC newbies?
14:54 < Old_Man> Is efnet still alive and stable?
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14:59 < queip> Emcy: eh Im not good with social sometimes, what would be a good way to write such replies like with the violence continuing into inside or not?
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15:02 < nkuttler> queip: i could have answered that like me focusing on videos of violence, he focuses on videos of nothingness. though i guess nothingness could also be seen as snarky
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15:04 < queip> well I often can read social moods, so Im not helping here
15:04 < queip> can't
15:04 < queip> anyway we stop letting some conflict in gubirment distrupt our channel in the end
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15:07 < queip> nkuttler: you need founder-ownership of this channel? it's a bit ackward just right after disagreement, but you know, I guess normally we would move it to gm?  and also we would talk to gm to be more mallow to intentional or rather accidental remarks
15:07 < nkuttler> i have contacted gmax
15:11 < queip> neat
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15:34 < midnight> Old_Man: definitely don't point him at efnet. :(
15:34 < midnight> efnet is a cesspool.
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16:15 < Emcy> ;;tlast
16:15 <@gribble> 37730.55
16:15 < Old_Man> CrAsHiNk! :)
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16:56 < Emcy> .price bch btc
16:56 < deb0rah> binance 0.01588000 [+13.07%] | bittrex 0.01587500 [+13.71%] | southxchange 0.01571283 [+12.10%] | hitbtc 0.01590000 [+13.39%] | bleutrade 0.01500000 [+4.17%] | graviex 0.01410007 [-29.46%] | poloniex 0.01591770 [+14.85%] | kraken 0.01590000 [+13.41%] |
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19:41 < Old_Man> ;;tlast
19:41 <@gribble> 34299.72
19:54 < Old_Man> Hey cool, the "element" app makes Matrix pretty damn easy.
20:15 < queip> Old_Man: fyi I tried matrix as irc replacement... it is very far from perfect, and it aims at federation, not distribution. virtually everyone on it is prone to homeservers going down or being forced down
20:17 < queip> so at least register at 2 HSes if you want some reliability
20:26 < Old_Man> Yeah, most of my shooting buddies are also nerds so we will probably have our own homeservers eventually if this looks any good.
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23:04 < Veggen> Hmm. Seems the hathormm miner that doesn't bother including transactions on BCH chain is back.
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:12 2021