--- Log opened Mon Jan 11 00:00:12 2021
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03:48 < queip> Veggen: kek
03:53 < pipilain1n> I just ordered a Blockstream Jade hw wallet
03:55 < queip> pipilain1n: cool
03:59 < pipilain1n> it seems to have support for the liquid sidechain, I've always wondered about that, it does seem pretty useful
04:00 < pipilain1n> altho federated sidechains are pretty lame
04:01 < pipilain1n> lame as in probably very useful but boring tech
04:01 < queip> pipilain1n: better than only SQL entry, and better than exchange<->exchange traffic taking onchain
04:01 < pipilain1n> yeah
04:02 < queip> what does it take to actually try it out, can just a person do that, or you need to be a company and register for them with some cost like uhm 100$?
04:02 < pipilain1n> no clue
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04:15 < Emcy> they extended liquid to end users some time ago
04:16 < Emcy> used to be federation members only but now greenwallet supports it
04:33 < queip> maybe cool. Of course, because of the centralisation and censorship, distributed
04:34 < queip> maybe cool. Of course, because of the centralisation and censorship, distributed  < decentralized, so I  will mostly use LN, but good to have some  options
04:36 < pipilain1n> LN is pretty useless for large transactions if you wanna cash out or load up on more BTC
04:36 < pipilain1n> but Liquid is pretty good for doing that
04:37 < pipilain1n> LN is good for small payments
04:37 < pipilain1n> but channel funding is messy
04:37 < pipilain1n> and seemingly scales in an ugly way
04:40 < queip> pipilain1n: yeah I ment for small
04:41 < queip> though... for medium LN should be ok too, depends what is "big" for you. Also the simplest payment channels (if you are going to 1 specific recipient) are obvious choice I think?
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04:46 < Veggen> there won't be one solution that fits all.
04:47 < Veggen> As I see it, the blockchain works best if we limit how much we need to cram down on it.
04:47 < Veggen> Liquid to let traders trade between trusted platform in a federated way.
04:47 < Veggen> LN for a more distributed, spending-oriented network, but without the *full* trustlessness as onchain.
04:48 < Veggen> this is totally the opposite opinion than the BCH crowd, who believes the point is to have as much activity on the blockchain  as possible.
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04:53 < queip> yeah
04:53 < queip> even the name...  noise.cash  :eyeroll: they know what they are doing there. more like noise.trash
04:59 < pipilain1n> I wonder how far LN will go
05:00 < pipilain1n> it works incredibly well using Phoenix, but then you are relying on a LN service provider
05:01 < queip> when I have good channels open, I do not see any problems no more with it. Well it would be cool to get well known developers to reassure LN is now in fact safe to use, or it will just come with time
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07:29 < queip> tbh I feel like there is room to improve regarding help we provide to eachother and new users in #bitcoin . I wonder is it so that most advanced developers focus solely on dev channels now. I think starting to work on wiki again can help too
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08:39 < pipilain1n> queip: totally agree
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08:41 < queip> in time we can get better, just continue support on bitcoin and work on wiki, I guess good plan? I will try myself
08:41  * queip un-rusts RPC usage
08:42 < queip> like TIL it seems bitcoin could be better in offering RPC tools to CPFP
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09:55 < pipilain1n> queip: thats the way
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11:24 < Veggen> queip: what's "safe"? it's getting there.
11:24 < Veggen> there's some edge-cases along DDOS-attacks etc, and fee attacks, etc.
11:26 < Veggen> i don't think a guarantee about not losing money is something you'd ever get in bitcoin world...
11:28 < Veggen> I probably have too much for my own good in LN channels, now. But the tools to actually earn money from being a routing node is also staring to appear.
11:29 < Veggen> I also am starting to see that this "fees should be 0" is something we need to ditch. Yes, fees for low-value transactions should be close to 0, but I will charge real fees for routing real money.
11:30 < Veggen> today, I have charged 91, 81 and 2 satoshis in fees, on my 3 routed transactions :)
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11:31 < Veggen> that it's proportional to the amount routed is natural for LN.
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13:10 < queip> Veggen: well, that CVEs (high-S ; not checking signature at all) were scary
13:11 < queip> eventually we will say "yeah that was decade ago, decade with no new critical bug" but a solid review by domain experts would at least for me accelerate the process. I use LN anyway, but I wouldn't move half or my savings into channels because of this (plus first we need excellent instant backups and watchtowers)
13:14 < queip> once all that is done, people should move a lot of their holdings there.  later multisig and hw wallets and you can put like half of life savings
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16:10 < queip> I think this will move to Freenode IRC at some point, alread at bitcoin-* gate
16:11 < queip> discussion re "why Bigtech banned POTUS"  someone says: for calling to violence   we ask: show url?  reply: well this is offtopic, this is bitcoin[-pricetalk], OPs do something
16:11 < queip> top kek.
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17:04 < queip> wow, it seems American Express cuts off access to money for Congresman who are expressing opinions about elections needing more auditing etc.  Time for USA congress/senators/etc to go with the plan B! :)
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20:17 < Asara> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/recovery.md#forced-in-place-rescan
20:17 < Bubbish> [ lnd/recovery.md at master · lightningnetwork/lnd · GitHub ] - github.com
20:17 < Asara> is this not the case anymore?
20:18 < Asara> currently using 0.11.1-beta
20:19 < Asara> my current node's synced_to_chain is true, synced_to_graph is false, and all my channels have been inactive now for a few days. I figured it would reconnect but it hasn't
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20:26 < Asara> or if its still rescanning, is there a way to view the progress of that?
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20:53 < nkuttler> queip: the "free" in freenode is about free software, staff would never allow this. even the bitcoin channels are only tolerated
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 12 00:00:13 2021