--- Log opened Tue Feb 16 00:00:31 2021 00:04 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:11 -!- mcv [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has joined #lnd 00:12 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 00:13 -!- McViLLaN [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:20 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #lnd 00:39 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:46 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #lnd 00:55 -!- laptop_ [~laptop@ppp-3-9.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 00:59 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:09 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 01:55 -!- Jackielove4u [uid43977@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-poobjgzopnrlujqs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:57 -!- jpe_ [~jp@i5E86AC4C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:18 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 02:37 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:44 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 02:57 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 03:08 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 03:14 -!- jpe [~jp@dancefloor-nat.fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has joined #lnd 03:31 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 04:22 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 04:26 -!- jpe [~jp@dancefloor-nat.fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd 05:37 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-159-180-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lnd 05:38 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd 05:53 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 05:55 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:58 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:59 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has joined #lnd 06:16 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@185.70.54.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd 06:50 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.173.51.99] has joined #lnd 06:59 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 07:31 -!- Jackielove4u [uid43977@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kndjfmofvkutwjbp] has joined #lnd 07:34 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-159-180-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:36 -!- eamonnw [eamonnw@iceland.sdf.org] has joined #lnd 07:51 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@185.70.54.45] has joined #lnd 07:53 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:08 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.173.51.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:08 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #lnd 08:11 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 08:11 -!- jivan [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 08:11 -!- Guest26359 [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 08:12 -!- jivan [~jivan@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 08:13 -!- Guest26359 [~androirc@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.51.99] has joined #lnd 08:26 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.51.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:33 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 08:40 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:40 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lnd 08:51 -!- EndFiat [EndFiat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/endfiat] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:53 -!- EndFiat [EndFiat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/endfiat] has joined #lnd 08:57 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd 09:27 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 09:35 < commmon> if im opening a channel, do i need to make sure its a popular route already? 09:36 < commmon> if im trying to earn fees 09:44 < Veggen> I'd not expect to earn a lot of fees, these days. Tho, to earn some fees as a small node, you should have: Good channels to popular vendors as well as some well-connected ones. Two: Incoming liquidity. 09:44 < Veggen> it's difficult to have a profit, though, you'll spend a bit on onchain fees, also during learning period. 09:50 < commmon> yeah this is all new to me, i get bitcoin core a little more now, but i just got a raspiblitz online and connected to a peer and have an open channel 09:51 < commmon> would you be willing to open a channel with me and send some sats back and forth... and will i always loose my onchain fee when closing a channel? 09:57 < Veggen> when closing a channel, that is an onchain transaction yes. both opening and closing is. So you try to avoid doing that too often. 10:01 < commmon> understood, ty! 10:01 < Veggen> fees are a bit high, and I am a bit low on free funds, now :) 10:02 < Veggen> if you're willing to spend some bitcoin to pay for incoming liquidity, there's lightning pool - a market for that. 10:11 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:12 -!- kloinka [~quassel@223.177.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lnd 10:19 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:00 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 11:08 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 11:10 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15 < jivan> Is this channel fine with general Lightning discussion, not just LND-specific stuff? 11:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 11:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21 < Veggen> jivan: likely? 11:22 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 11:27 < jivan> Fair, haha 11:27 < jivan> Thought I'd ask before getting into the weeds 11:27 < jivan> Anyway, I'm new to Lightning on a deep technical level, but I understand the principles behind the protocol 11:28 < jivan> Thinking of setting up a node sometime soon, probably like RaspiBlitz (pruned bitcoind node with lnd) but not on a Pi 11:29 < jivan> Wanted to ask, what's the purpose behind reserves in channels? I haven't seen anyone mention this before, but was looking into how Phoenix works, and they mention that they use a proprietary protocol between their LN nodes and Phoenix wallet peers which allows zero reserve 11:30 < jivan> That is, I haven't seen reserves mentioned before I saw it mentioned there 11:30 < Veggen> channel reserve is reserved so that a channel partner should always have something to lose. 11:31 < jivan> Oh, so if they try to cheat, they can be penalised? 11:31 < Veggen> yup. 11:31 < Veggen> and that process is pretty automatic, as long as you just run your node. 11:32 < jivan> I was just doing some reading now, and it also seems that it's necessary so that the channel can be settled whilst deducting the on-chain tx fee from both parties? 11:32 < jivan> So like, the parties split the settlement fee between them? 11:32 < Veggen> for now, settlement fee is taken only from the channel opener. 11:33 < jivan> Ahh, cool — is settlement fee decided when the channel is opened? 11:33 < Veggen> well, it's negotiated as the conditions onchain changes, too. 11:33 < lndbot> jivan: just a heads up: lnd currently doesn't support running off a pruned bitcoind node 11:33 < Veggen> so it will change. 11:34 < jivan> Indbot: Cheers, good to know! Any plans for support for that? 11:37 < jivan> gugger, rather, lol 11:39 < lndbot> yes, it's definitely on the priority list, hopefully it'll fit into the next major release 11:39 < jivan> What's a common amount held in a channel these days? 11:40 < jivan> gugger: Awesome stuff 11:42 < lndbot> hard to day. with on-chain fees rising, small channels will become uneconomical to open. but with the rising usd price larger channels will also become more capital intense to open. I'm sure there are statistics out there, just don't have a link to that specific number ready 11:42 < lndbot> *hard to say 11:42 < Veggen> jivan: I personally try to keep them at more than a million satoshi. 11:45 < jivan> Is 1ml.com accurate? If so, it looks like 0.0285 BTC is the mean amount in a channel 11:45 < lndbot> sounds pretty reasonable. obviously that's just of the known, public channels. there might be massive, multi BTC private channels that we don't know of 11:46 < jivan> How are channels publicised? Is that related to the routing mechanism, like Trampoline? 11:46 < jivan> I need to read about that 11:47 < lndbot> no, it's a flag you set when opening the channel. if it's public, it can be used by the network to route through you. if it's private, only you and the channel peer know about it. 11:47 < lndbot> if you have no public channel on your node, your node basically isn't visible to the network as a whole 11:48 < lndbot> publishing in this case just means: do you announce the channel to the network (through the p2p gossip messages) or not. a channel funding TX always has to go to chain. so there are heuristics to get estimates for private channels just from looking at the chain. but that can only be done after closing them (since the channel funding output is just a p2wsh output) 11:52 < jivan> Methinks I need to read Mastering Lightning 12:04 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:15 <@roasbeef> commmon: a good when to get new good chans is to buy some on lightning pool as well: https://lightning.engineering/pool/ 12:15 < Bubbish> [ Pool | Lightning Labs ] - lightning.engineering 12:18 < commmon> roasbeef: how do i know what is a "good" channel and a bad one 12:39 -!- jp [~jp@67.183.157.6] has joined #lnd 12:52 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:01 < jivan> commmon: What do you consider to be a "good" channel as opposed to a "bad" one? 13:02 < jivan> The system cannot be cheated unless your node neglects/fails to watch the Layer 1 network or fails to act in response to a cheating attempt. Ordinarily, cheaters will always just end up getting penalised 13:02 < jivan> So in light of that, all channels are the same 13:02 < commmon> okay sweet thank you 13:03 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:11 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12 < Asara> how long does lnd keep pending channels before giving up? I set a 1sat/byte fee on my open channel a few days ago and i am assuming it will never propagate since 'mempool min fee not met, 154 < 707' 13:13 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lnd 13:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:22 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:30 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd 13:32 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #lnd 13:33 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:33 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-3-9.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lnd 13:34 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35 -!- laptop_ [~laptop@ppp-3-9.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has joined #lnd 13:39 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.74.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has joined #lnd 14:05 -!- wrobat [~hm@ip68-228-153-21.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lnd 14:12 -!- wrobat [~hm@ip68-228-153-21.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:12 -!- wrobat [44e49915@ip68-228-153-21.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lnd 14:16 -!- wrobat [44e49915@ip68-228-153-21.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:27 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has joined #lnd 14:39 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #lnd 14:39 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:44 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has joined #lnd 14:55 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55 -!- jpe [~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de] has joined #lnd 15:04 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 15:27 -!- jp [~jp@67.183.157.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12 -!- mips [~mips@gateway/tor-sasl/mips] has joined #lnd 16:20 -!- jivan [~jivan@79-73-15-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 16:45 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@rrcs-45-59-254-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 16:46 -!- yzernik [~yzernik@rrcs-45-59-254-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lnd 16:50 <@roasbeef> Asara: if it's your channel (you funded it), then it'll never give up 16:50 <@roasbeef> yeh unless you modify your bitcoind to lower that min relay fee 16:50 <@roasbeef> commmon: a good chan is one connected to a good node, that is high velocity (high demand for transfers using it) 16:50 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.173.87.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53 < Asara> roasbeef: thanks! 17:34 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 17:34 -!- mips [~mips@gateway/tor-sasl/mips] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 17:50 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 17:51 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 18:53 -!- laptop [~laptop@ppp-3-9.leed-a-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:03 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 20:10 -!- hungry-aligator [5cdf59e5@92.223.89.229] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 20:21 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@185.70.54.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@185.70.54.45] has joined #lnd 22:03 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@185.70.54.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35 -!- mcv [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38 -!- mcv [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has joined #lnd 22:38 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has joined #lnd 23:05 -!- mol_ [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lnd 23:09 -!- mol [~mol@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] --- Log closed Wed Feb 17 00:00:34 2021