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14:31 < qxt> I have a node that has been up for like a year. Is it OK to just add protocol.wumbo-channels=1 to my lnd.conf file without recreating the channels?
14:31 < qxt> Then swap in some larger amounts of BTC if needed?
14:32 < qxt> on v0.12
14:32 < qxt> release binary 
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16:12 <@roasbeef> qxt: yeh that's fine 
16:12 <@roasbeef> your _new_ channels can be wumbo, and then ppl know they can open wumbo chans towards you
16:12 < qxt> thx
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16:16 < qxt> what does allow-circular-route=1 do? Going though alex's setup. 
16:17 < qxt> I mean I know what a circular route is. Just never seen this flag.
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16:19 < qxt> roasbeef, oh wait. My _NEW_ channels will be wumbo. So what happens if I have a channel and try to swap in say 0.5BTC? Do I need to close the old channel and make a new wumbo one?
16:20 < rubikputer> qxt: that's likely, since the channel attributes are already set
16:22 < qxt> rubikputer, good to know. Its just two channels that will need it thankfully
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16:39 <@roasbeef> qxt: that flag is more of an advanced thing, you prob don't need it 
16:39 <@roasbeef> qxt: swap in? wumbo just means a chan > 16 million satoshis 
16:41 < qxt> If I don't want to close the channel can I loop in 0.5BTC now? 
16:41 <@roasbeef> if the channel was that big before
16:41 <@roasbeef> channel sizes are basically static rn, you need to open, then close to make a bigger or smaller one 
16:41 < qxt> no its really old
16:42 <@roasbeef> splicing fixes that, but it hasn't been widely implemented yet (tho it's a similar operation given it invovles chain transactions) 
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16:43 < qxt> roasbeef, OK Ill play it safe then. Close the old one that is 0.01 and make a new channel with the wumbo amount I need. Just to play it safe
16:43 <@roasbeef> cool that should work 
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19:50 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, hi, so what is zmq used for?
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21:03 <@roasbeef> phantomcircuit: notifications of new blocks
21:04 <@roasbeef> also the tx socket as well to detect mempool stuff 
21:04 <@roasbeef> for btcd we use it's ws notifications
21:11 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, zmq is not a reliable transport for any of the underlying transport methods
21:13 <@roasbeef> relevant sub systems handle missing a block to back fill what was missed, transaction stuff from the mempool is just a bonus so ppl can see incoming unconfirmed stuff
21:13 <@roasbeef> i feel like we've had this convo before phantomcircuit 
21:13 <@roasbeef> are ppl interested in removing or changing the exposed API on the bitcoind end? 
21:13 < phantomcircuit> i am cause there's no use for it
21:14 <@roasbeef> you're aware ppl use it right? so there's a use for it
21:14 < phantomcircuit> if you use zmq you need to poll, if you need to poll you should just be polling
21:14 < phantomcircuit> it's not possible to use it *safely* without polling
21:14 < phantomcircuit> at which point why are you using it?
21:16 <@roasbeef> eventually along the line something will be poll waiting for the event further down the stack...but that's not a reason to not provide streaming interfaces generally
21:16 <@roasbeef> if you wanna remove support and replace that w/ polling everywhere instead then we'd examine teh PR
21:16 <@roasbeef> we're also clearly not the only project that uses the API 
21:22 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, yeah i tell anybody using it to stop because it's illogical
21:23 < phantomcircuit> the majority of the time they respond with "THEN WHY IS IT IN BITCOIN THEN HUH SMART GUY" and i just roll my eyes
21:23 <@roasbeef> well I guess you can blame whoever added in in the first place ;) 
21:23 <@roasbeef> it's polling all the way down man
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21:39 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, yeah that's pretty easy to do https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5303
21:39 < Bubbish> [ Add ZMQ support. Report blocks and transactions via ZMQ. by jgarzik · Pull Request #5303 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ] - github.com
21:40 < phantomcircuit> jgarzik merged commit 029e278 into bitcoin:master on Sep 16, 2015 
21:40 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, step one for looking for bitcoin bugs, did jgarzik ever touch this code? does reverting that fix it?
21:40 <@roasbeef> that one didn't get merged tho, this one did: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6103
21:40 < Bubbish> [ Add ZeroMQ notifications by promag · Pull Request #6103 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ] - github.com
21:41 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, k look who merged it
21:41 <@roasbeef> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:41 < phantomcircuit> lots of people were under the impression that if you used the tcp connector it made zmq reliable, it does not
21:42 <@roasbeef> if you wanna remove it, you should go give it a shot
21:43 < phantomcircuit> i've tried and people say "but people are using it" so first im here to convince you not to use it
21:43 < phantomcircuit> but then you'll say but it's there so you won't and it's a loop
21:43 <@roasbeef> yep we've been here before 
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22:00 < phantomcircuit> roasbeef, yes well i try again
22:10 < mol_> phantomcircuit, Eclair is also using ZMQ
22:19 < phantomcircuit> mol_, i sure hope they're polling
22:19 < phantomcircuit> zmq will lose messages even if you're using the tcp transport
22:22 < mol_> is there a better solution for lnd and eclair?
22:33 < phantomcircuit> mol_, yes, poll the relevant rpc
23:04 < mol_> phantomcircuit, if that works, wouldn't the devs of lnd and eclair already use it? i know if i use btcd as the bitcoin backend i don't have to use zmq
23:05 < mol_> and eclair mobile doesn't use zmq but it uses electrum as the backend
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 10 00:00:53 2021