--- Day changed Thu Mar 27 2008
20:38 -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-76-251-80-155.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:38 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: happy bunny day - day of the replicator!
20:38 -!- Topic set by fenn [] [Sun Mar 23 22:34:25 2008]
20:38 [Users #hplusroadmap]
20:38 [ Enki-2] [ epitron] [ fenn] [ kanzure] 
20:38 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 4 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal]
20:38 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008
20:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 11 secs
20:41 < fenn> lol @ biofuels in space
20:42 < fenn> just use hydrogen
20:43 < fenn> or better yet, a mass driver or ion rocket
20:46 < kanzure> fenn: 
20:46 < kanzure> fenn: http://heybryan.org/graphene.html
20:47 < kanzure> sheet of graphene + e-beam lithography = win
20:47 < kanzure> = microprocessors
20:50 < fenn> i like it
20:50 < fenn> how do you make semiconductors out of graphene?
20:51 < fenn> in an electron microscope, the e-beam starts out at a hot tungsten disc - that's the 'image' 
20:52 < kanzure> oh
20:52 < kanzure> sorry
20:52 < fenn> you would have to make a mask that blocks electrons while they are still relatively diffuse
20:52 < kanzure> another method would be to use STM
20:52 < kanzure> apply voltage from tungsten tip of STM
20:52 < kanzure> I will be going soon, so I must be quick
20:52 < kanzure> and my website
20:52 < kanzure> save a copy
20:52 < fenn> your web's going down?
20:52 < kanzure> yes
20:52 < kanzure> dad is pulling the plug
20:53 < fenn> can you send me a copy of the wiki db?
20:53 < kanzure> uh, I'll be back tomorrow
20:53 < fenn> oh ok
20:53 < kanzure> but let me see if I can get it within the next 2 minutes ;)
20:54 < kanzure> hm, I don't have the export db mod installed
20:54 < kanzure> anyway, here's my idea
20:54 < kanzure> use the $100 STM projects
20:54 < kanzure> and apply a voltage to a sheet of graphene
20:54 < kanzure> with some sort of photoresist or etchant over it
20:54 < kanzure> this will be slow, but there's a Harvard group that has done something like this
20:54 < kanzure> not with graphene, but with STMs/AFMs in general
20:54 < kanzure> anyway, it's slow scanning obviously but that might be okay
20:55 < kanzure> the trick is the synthesis for graphene as far as I can tell
20:55 < kanzure> I include some links on my graphene.html file for this
20:55 < kanzure> links to Sigma-Aldrich to purchase the chemicals, I mean
20:55 < kanzure> good luck getting it up to 1000 deg Celsius, 
20:55 < fenn> http://pastebin.ca/956457 <- this is a rough draft at the autogenix format
20:55 < kanzure> that might require a chamber of some sort
20:55 < kanzure> hm
20:55 < kanzure> isn't there neighborhood wireless from neighbors and so on
20:55 < kanzure> ?
20:56 < fenn> was that to me?
20:56 < kanzure> yes
20:56 < fenn> my phone line is staticky and it's killing the DSL modem - i'm out of range of neighbors
20:56 < fenn> i can go to the library or whatever, but the phone guy is coming tomorrow
20:58 < kanzure> who the fuck pulls the internet plug to their own child
20:58 < kanzure> I don't think he understands the idea of a web server
20:58 < fenn> i dont understand, he's taking down your server because you spend too much time on the net?
20:58 < kanzure> no
20:59 < kanzure> he's taking down my server because I get in to bickerings with my brother
20:59 < kanzure> it's one of those situations where he thinks I am mentally retarded
21:00 < fenn> obviously..
21:00 < kanzure> and the dad can't punish him since he's a favorite and doesn't use the net
21:00 < kanzure> there's no way to punish the kid
21:00 < kanzure> since he doesn't use the net, he doesn't really use a phone all that much
21:00 < kanzure> doesn't have many friends
21:00 < kanzure> so he can get away with putting me in weird situations
21:00 < fenn> break his bb gun! >:)
21:01 < fenn> surely he must do something
21:01 < fenn> anyway i'm not helping
21:02 < fenn> wow. orbital biofuel being burned to melt metal.. i dont even know where to begin
21:03 < fenn> there's more kinetic energy in the fuel than chemical energy
21:06 < fenn> I just read "the diamond age"
21:08 < fenn> it reminds me of "the golden compass" in many ways: http://fennetic.net/misc/diamond_age_vs_golden_compass
21:17 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Success]
21:23 -!- fenn_ [n=pz@adsl-76-252-191-250.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:23 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: happy bunny day - day of the replicator!
21:23 -!- Topic set by fenn [] [Sun Mar 23 22:34:25 2008]
21:23 [Users #hplusroadmap]
21:23 [ Enki-2] [ epitron] [ fenn] [ fenn_] [ kanzure] 
21:23 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 5 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
21:24 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008
21:24 < kanzure> fenn_:  you alive?
21:24 < fenn_> yes. we'll see how long this lasts
21:24 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 34 secs
21:24 < kanzure> heh, same here
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:26:16) kanzure: fenn: argh
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:26:23) kanzure: fenn: Neighborhood wireless ;)
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:26:26) kanzure: Anyway, where were we?
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:26:55) kanzure: I took a look at your spec for the file format
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:27:01) kanzure: and am somewhat confused as to what you were intending for this to be
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:27:09) kanzure: it looked like a dependency specification system for self-replication
21:24 < kanzure> (2008-03-27 20:27:16) kanzure: rather than a package format for general materials and tools for skdb
21:24 < kanzure> for example, at one point you refer to materials
21:25 < kanzure> but wouldn't that be more like a way to specify other ID numbers of other packages? 
21:25 < fenn_> the difference is that materials tend to go away over time
21:25 < fenn_> consumables
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21:25 < fenn_> hah
21:26 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-195-135.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:26 < kanzure> back
21:26 < kanzure> "the difference is that materials tend to go away over time"
21:26 < kanzure> yes, I agree
21:26 < kanzure> the more you add functionality
21:26 < kanzure> the less you need to consider the materials 'different'
21:26 < kanzure> as long as they all loop back to each other, yes?
21:26 < fenn_> p^2 probability we're both connected :)
21:27 < kanzure> we should use something that checks if we receive messages
21:27 < fenn_> sure, a material is a specification, unless it's natural
21:27 < kanzure> right
21:27 < fenn_> even then, there's different types of maple - flame, birdseye, etc
21:28 < kanzure> I was thinking we might have to go through the materials-sci journals and make our own database
21:28 < kanzure> I figure something fairly formal/scholarly could attract some data monkeys or something
21:28 < kanzure> or if we have to we can get some funding to go get kids to insert data
21:28 < fenn_> i was thinking more of a wiki approach, with 'ye' or 'nay' votes
21:28 < kanzure> hehe
21:28 < kanzure> vote for what ?
21:28 < fenn_> whether the data's any good
21:28 < kanzure> hm
21:28 < kanzure> well, it can always be sourced I guess
21:29 < fenn_> often it's easier to measure something than look it up
21:29 < kanzure> really? that's depressing
21:29 < kanzure> screw it then
21:29 < kanzure> let's design the measuring machinery
21:29 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/instrumentation/instru.html
21:29 < fenn_> ok
21:29 < kanzure> oh wait
21:30 < kanzure> that's right
21:30 < kanzure> the site is down
21:30 < kanzure> that page has a list of a few hundred different analytical machinery
21:30 < kanzure> most of which I do not yet have schematics
21:30 < kanzure> but for a good percentage
21:30 < kanzure> I'm planning on extending my coverage
21:30 < kanzure> now that I have paper access
21:31 < kanzure> fenn_: ping?
21:31 < fenn_> pong
21:31 < kanzure> I was thinking we'd make the file format extendable or scriptable or something
21:31 < kanzure> so that we can import different libraries for different packages
21:31 < kanzure> in fact, this should all be computational modeling
21:32 < kanzure> since different materials and packages behave differently
21:32 < fenn_> there's a lot of stick-slip in normal threads, makes for uncertainty in measurement.. i dont know how to apply  large amount of forces cheaply and repeatably
21:32 < kanzure> no matter what their numbers say
21:32 < fenn_> i guess you could use a roller screw
21:32 < kanzure> an automated interferometer for example, surely this is possible
21:32 < kanzure> for what?
21:32 < fenn_> for tensile strength test, young's modulus measurement
21:33 < kanzure> ah
21:33 < kanzure> hm, I wonder how materials will be assembled
21:33 < kanzure> this is going to be a nasty-big project
21:33 < fenn_> yeah
21:33 < fenn_> that's why the wiki angle
21:33 < kanzure> because you can't just load up materials and say "do these tests"
21:33 < kanzure> if we do wiki
21:34 < fenn_> you mean like, comparing computer models of material properties to actual data to see if they match?
21:35 -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-76-251-80-155.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:38 < fenn_> i was thinking of how to get user-specific subjective data, like how much they are willing to work vs spend money, and oregon trail came to mind: "Are you a: doctor, lawyer, carpenter, blacksmith, farmer?"
21:44 -!- You're now known as fenn
21:48 < fenn> actually, a mask wouldn't work in an electron gun, because te charge would either build up on an insulator, or a conductor would affect the field distribution (throwing off the focus)
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