--- Day changed Fri Apr 11 2008
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07:42 < kanzure> Hi epitron.
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09:04 < faceface> just lurking
09:05 < faceface> !help
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17:40 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:41 < kanzure> Hm.
17:50 < drazak> mmmmmmm b5
17:56 < kanzure> Why didn't the newspaper guys at the school talk to me before publishing this today?
17:56 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/school/2008-04-11_school_newspaper_nanotech.html
17:56 < kanzure> Assholes.
18:36 < fenn> because that would conflict with their journalistic integrity of giving only conflicting viewpoints
18:39 < fenn> did you go to the cyclify austin thing?
19:03 < kanzure> no, my dad wasn't feeling well and he still wants to me to drive with him places, don't know why
19:03 < kanzure> they didn't represent or clearly delineate conflicting viewpoints
19:03 < kanzure> in fact, I don't think they had a solid idea in that article
19:06 < fenn> does your school have a website yet? newspaper seems a little old-fashioned
19:06 < fenn> but, so does prussian-style schooling
19:07 < kanzure> http://hayscisd.net/
19:08 < kanzure> http://rebelslibrary.com/
19:10 < fenn> 10 reasons the internet is no subsitute for a library:
19:10 < fenn> 1) internet isnt allowed in school
19:10 < fenn> 2) if it were, you wouldnt be allowed to use it
19:10 < fenn> 3) if you managed to finagle access anyway, you wouldnt be allowed to do anything fun or useful
19:11 < fenn> 4) because i said so
19:11 < fenn> 5) are you still here?
19:11 < kanzure> yes, that was retarded
19:11 < kanzure> the library has 35 computers that we use during the lunch hours
19:11 < fenn> The following are prohibited: ... Downloads of any kind.
19:11 < kanzure> yeah
19:11 < kanzure> I want to stab them for that
19:11 < fenn> clearly, you have violated library policy
19:12 < fenn> downloader!
19:12 < kanzure> I wouldn't think it was possible, but it gets worse
19:12 < fenn> do they actually sell floppy disks?
19:12 < fenn> do computers still come with floppy drives?
19:13 < kanzure> those do
19:13 < kanzure> it's technically cheaper to claim that you lost a flash drive to them
19:13 < kanzure> because they always have a few that people are dropping
19:13 < fenn> and then you get the indecent thrill of looking through someone else's homework
19:13 < kanzure> sure
19:13 < kanzure> it's kind of sad though
19:14 < kanzure> a few months ago I was doing some work in the library and the librarians came up to Andrew (brother) a few computers over,
19:14 < kanzure> and they were trying to convince him that what he wanted to find on the internet could be found in books
19:14 < kanzure> I believe he was looking up the embryological evolutionary development of anthropods
19:14 < fenn> did they know about the google project?
19:15 < kanzure> from experience of browsing the indices of the library (just for the hell of it) - I know they do not have this information.
19:15 < kanzure> nope,
19:15 < kanzure> they were completely sure that Andrew was just a stupid kid who didn't want to open his eyes to the books
19:15 < kanzure> but it's just the opposite: they are stupid librarians not opening their eyes to the information accessibility
19:16 < fenn> well, sometimes i get annoyed by people who use myspace instead of email
19:16 < fenn> i'm actually not sure which is technically inferior
19:16 < kanzure> sure, there's lots of students that try to sneak in and check their myspace.com accounts
19:16 < kanzure> the AP literature blog - http://hhsaplit.wordpress.com/
19:17 < fenn> are you allowed to have a cellphone in your posession?
19:17 < fenn> it would be an interesting political experiment to provide covert wifi coverage to your school
19:18 < kanzure> well, 
19:18 < kanzure> here's how this goes down
19:18 < kanzure> they crack down on mp3 players, ipods, cell phones, anything that is handheld and electronic basically
19:18 < kanzure> however students can sneak in some text messages and so on
19:19 < kanzure> the wifi internet is only for (1) the blind (1 student in the entire school) and (2) the mobile 'laptop cart' (30 Dell notebooks); not even the teachers can wire up their laptops to the internet
19:19 < kanzure> (so I carry around ethernet with me so that in the rare occurence that I am relocated to a room with a free, activated ethernet port, I can get some serious work done)
19:20 < kanzure> I've managed to sneak into the networking room twice, both times by playing the "oops, I dropped something underneath the door" trick on the janitors
19:20 < kanzure> hoping to plug in the wall outlets from the classes I visit, but not having enough time before arousing suspicion
19:21 < kanzure> (the wall outlets are numbered in each of the rooms, I know that I'd really like B-099 to be activated)
19:21 < fenn> so, you could sneak in a wifi router theoretically
19:21 < kanzure> right
19:21 < kanzure> but I'd need a teacher's cooperation
19:21 < kanzure> I could just plug it in to a teacher's ethernet port
19:22 < kanzure> I don't think they would be able to figure out where to look
19:22 < fenn> yeah you'd need some clever maneuvering with a laptop and signal strength meter
19:22 < kanzure> right
19:22 < kanzure> but luckily many of my classes are localized during the day
19:22 < kanzure> they have me going in circles
19:23 < kanzure> personally, I find this to be inexcusable behavior on the part of the administrators
19:23 < kanzure> there's no way they can think that they have hired the best of the best in teachers
19:23 < kanzure> and of course that's not their goal
19:23 < kanzure> but for some of us we want to get work done
19:24 < kanzure> speaking of which ... the valedictorian is somewhat of a polygamist druggie, so a few of us are opting to write his speech for him. I'll throw it up on a wiki soon and get down to business. I want to throw in some clever punches to the school system. "I am glad that I have had the pleasure of being so wonderfully confined for the past 12 years of my life, this has really worked out well" etc.
19:25 < fenn> heh polygamy is the default in high school isnt it?
19:25 < kanzure> dunno, I never was able to get signed up for that
19:25 < fenn> meh
19:26 < fenn> people change when they get out of prison
19:28 < kanzure> Texas has great homeschooling laws, the only reason I am still in high school is because (1) my dad has given me financial incentive (college money) to stay in hgih school, and (2) I've been too much of a pussy to run away.
19:29 < kanzure> what we've all known about voting (party identification trends, people not knowing what the party member really represents) - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=518564;cid=23031202
19:29 < fenn> well, free rent and college money sounds like an ok deal i guess
19:29 < kanzure> maybe
19:29 < kanzure> in exchange for immense psychological suffering?
19:29 < kanzure> I'm at the top of my game during the school day, only to come home to try to kick myself up the hill, it sucks
19:30 < fenn> why are you going to UT?
19:30 < kanzure> only two schools accepted me: wisc.edu and utexas.edu
19:30 < kanzure> utexas because it's cheap and I was supposedly going to get a lab spot over the summer with Andy's lab
19:30 < fenn> i mean, why are you doing undergrad
19:30 < fenn> its more of the same, BTDT
19:30 < kanzure> skip undergrad completely?
19:30 < kanzure> BDT?
19:30 < kanzure> *BTDT?
19:30 < fenn> been there done that
19:31 < kanzure> what are my options? 
19:31 < fenn> uh, well, i dunno really
19:31 < kanzure> I need some hard lab experience
19:31 < fenn>  why?
19:31 < kanzure> for people to take me slightly more seriously, I think
19:31 < kanzure> and from what I can tell, you sort of have to be attending the university in order to count
19:31 < kanzure> * in order to get in
19:31 < kanzure> to a lab
19:31 < kanzure> I hope I am wrong.
19:32 < fenn> hm. well, ask ellington and see if its possible to skip undergrad in all or in part
19:32 < kanzure> doesn't that sound kinda foolish
19:32 < fenn> how much is 3 years worth to you?
19:32 < kanzure> every second
19:33 < fenn> did you do AP yet?
19:34 < fenn> there are lots of departmental tests you can take to get credit or have requirements waived
19:34 < kanzure> yeah, of course
19:34 < fenn> many of them are not advertised
19:34 < kanzure> I've been doing AP for yars
19:34 < kanzure> *years
19:34 < fenn> you have to go pester some departmental chair
19:34 < kanzure> you can see my reviews on my sites, I collected 10k links per class and then did a recurse through a good number of them
19:34 < kanzure> yeah, I'll definitely look into that
19:34 < kanzure> I was planning on going to their summer orientation session
19:35 < fenn> honestly, you know more than most college grads, but dont let it go to your head
19:35 < kanzure> where I'd finalize some course work schedules or whatever, ask if I can "design my own course" (UT doesn't allow this, but I'll ask anyway)
19:35 < kanzure> and then I was planning on doing a recursion through the syllabus guides
19:36 < kanzure> I just need to impress the right people, I think
19:36 < fenn> the right people could care less
19:36 < fenn> the people you can impress are not going to be able to do anything
19:37 < fenn> so you will have to work with the people you can impress to convince the crusty old administrators to do stuff
19:37 < fenn> that takes effort on everyone's part so they will not want to do it
19:37 < fenn> so you have to convince them that it's worth helping you
19:38 < fenn> (a slightly harder problem)
19:38 < fenn> gah taxes are so stupid
19:40 < kanzure> hm
19:40 < kanzure> I see.
19:42 < kanzure> "I'm still amused by those who insist content more valuable than the means of accessing it."
19:42 < fenn> um, what? those are like, orthogonal
19:43 < kanzure> as in -> 
19:43 < kanzure> argh
19:43 < kanzure> copy/paste error
19:43 < fenn> accessible content is worth more in value, less in money
19:43 < kanzure> as in, access method to some extent determines the content that will be accessed
19:43 < fenn> s/value/utility/
19:50 < kanzure> anyway, I have some time open this summer if I don't get that lab spot
19:50 < kanzure> so this will be an optimal time to get some things lined up and in order
19:56 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/pointrel/ relationship specification system?
20:03 < fenn> i dont really get it - why three? why not use class inheritance to describe relationships?
20:04 < fenn> "thats nice but whats it good for"
20:04 < kanzure> http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=6010
20:05 < kanzure> don't know
20:05 < fenn> cycorp had something like 'first 50 million triplets free' on their website, which it nagging at me
20:06 < fenn> oh look, text i cant read, great
20:06 < fenn> hey i can read "BFI Challenge"
20:06 < fenn> that's funny
20:08 < fenn> those fuckers never even wrote me back
20:16 < fenn> design science revolution is cool though
20:25 < kanzure> heh
20:25 < kanzure> I was reading the BFI challenge site recently too
20:25 < kanzure> but it looks like they want something more concrete than what I can provide at the moment
20:35 < kanzure> fenn: what's your current situation? out of college?
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22:59 < fenn> kanzure: yep, pretty much, realized college was BS halfway through and decided to finish anyway, now i'm sort of coasting on money i was supposed to spend on college but didnt because i'm cheap
22:59 < kanzure> neat
22:59 < fenn> did a bit of sysadmin perlmongering and hated it
22:59 < kanzure> so if I get a startup going and have some funding, you'd be interested in seeing if it could work out for you?
22:59 < fenn> depends what it is
23:00 < kanzure> ok, but it's not out of the question
23:00 < fenn> yes i'd be interested
23:01 < kanzure> how much does it take to coast, anyway?
23:01 < kanzure> because I have a five digit number coming up for college funds
23:01 < fenn> do you really want to know? :)
23:01 < kanzure> sure
23:02 < fenn> well, food is free from dumpsters, and you really only need a sleeping bag and a plastic sheet
23:02 < kanzure> what about your metal shop?
23:03 < fenn> i happen to live in a house, and rent+bills is about $220, but its a rather "choice" situation, takes a while to find that sort of thing
23:03 < fenn> metal shop is crap from harbor freight.. dunno, i probably have spent about $2000 there
23:03 < fenn> and $800 on the atlas lathe
23:03 < kanzure> that's not bad
23:03 < kanzure> my mom runs a woodworking shop
23:03 < kanzure> she's spent significantly more than $2800 on it
23:03 < kanzure> and she's a deal hunter ;)
23:04 < fenn> my estimate may be off by a lot
23:04 < fenn> i will figure it out when i get my computerized inventory database set up
23:05 < kanzure> $220 is pretty good
23:05 < fenn> um, it's more than just a cost database, it's searchable and tells you where to find stuff
23:06 < fenn> yep, at one point i was paying $50 for rent, but we had like 10 people living here
23:06 < fenn> big old farm house with fields around it
23:07 < kanzure> big old farm house ... with internet access? hehe
23:07 < fenn> actually.. there is a fiber optic cable right across the street
23:07 < kanzure> a steal.
23:07 < fenn> you can open up this little door in the ground and see a room full of server racks and telephone equipment
23:08 < fenn> we thought the phone company vans were spying on us because they were always parked over there doing apparently nothing
23:09 < fenn> so, now the brouhaha is filing for 501c(3) status so people can give us money for being cool
23:10 < kanzure> huh?
23:10 < kanzure> how would that work?
23:10 < kanzure> do you actually do anything ?
23:10 < kanzure> heh
23:10 < kanzure> I mean, that people would give money for?
23:10 < fenn> well, people have all this excess money that they can give away, and basically it's redirecting money away form the gov't
23:10 < kanzure> ah, for donations
23:11 < fenn> we would be doing 'educational outreach'
23:11 < kanzure> neat
23:12 < fenn> today discussed about how people have land-lines that they never use, and how to utilize those as a distributed skype-ish last mile POTS network bridge
23:12 < fenn> phone lines
23:12 < fenn> say you're in europe and you want to call indiana
23:13 < fenn> you skype over the net to my server, which picks up the modem and dials a local indiana number
23:13 < fenn> since i'm not using the phone line, it's no sweat off my back. but need lots of them
23:13 < kanzure> I believe that's, ah, autoasterisk
23:13 < kanzure> asterisk project or something
23:13 < fenn> asterisk does a lot of crap
23:14 < fenn> anyway, it would be cool to figure out how to promote this and possibly take advantage of it
23:15 < kanzure> wait, wouldn't they be on your bill?
23:15 < kanzure> phone bill?
23:15 < kanzure> unless local calls are free
23:15 < kanzure> then you only need bandwidth to scale up
23:15 < kanzure> so that's paying for new wires to be put in, yes?
23:17 < fenn> no, we dont buy any hardware, expansion works by distributing the software to other people who want to take part
23:17 < kanzure> hm
23:17 < kanzure> yes, that'd work
23:18 < fenn> see, you have to sign up for telephone service if you want DSL
23:18 < fenn> so you get this useless phone line
23:18 < kanzure> hah
23:18 < fenn> weird isnt it
23:19 < fenn> phone company unwittingly causing its own demise
23:20 < kanzure> it's too bad we can't get people to pull their own fiber optic cabling
23:20 < kanzure> if it drops packages, that's ok, the internet routes around that sort of damage
23:21 < fenn> nah, wireless mesh network is a zillion times cheaper and more resilient
23:21 < fenn> only downside is latency
23:21 < kanzure> well, I was thinking the same
23:21 < kanzure> but I want self-replicating mesh nodes
23:21 < kanzure> on the other hand, taking over the HAM frequencies might be worth it
23:22 < fenn> there's also optical and IR and more
23:22 < kanzure> ronja needs to include DIY laser instructions ;)
23:23 < fenn> TEA laser router? :P
23:23 < kanzure> yep
23:23 < fenn> do not stare into router with remaining eye
23:24 < fenn> fluorescent light might be fast enough
23:24 < fenn> or some kind of corona discharge
23:24 < fenn> then you get to worry about diy light detectors
23:25 < kanzure> some sort of cheap photoamplifier
23:25 < fenn> yeah, those two words dont go together
23:25 < kanzure> or digital camera from walgreens
23:25 < kanzure> hooked up to some software?
23:25 < fenn> if you buy something might as well just buy some led's and photodiodes and be done with it
23:26 < kanzure> I'm going to get some sleep, I'm being useless at the moment
23:26 < kanzure> I need you to go over the todo notes I threw up yesterday and tell me if you can think of something else I should be doing tomorrow
23:26 < kanzure> http;//heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-04-10 has the list near the bottom somewhere
23:27 < fenn> ok, will look, g'nite
23:32 < kanzure> as expected, Wikipedia pulled my edits