--- Day changed Tue Apr 29 2008 00:28 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:34 < fenn> from one of the orocos dev's: http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~bruyninc/blender/roadmap.html 00:38 < fenn> barcamp - neato 00:41 < fenn> you should credit fernhout on your quotes page (otherwise it's not .. a quote) 00:45 < fenn> the whole concept of distributed hash table is so sexy i cant believe we dont have a www based on it yet 00:47 * fenn grumbles about freenet 01:02 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/exp.html refresh to see the Neil Gershenfeld quote I threw up 01:02 < kanzure> it probably adds some much needed context. 01:04 < fenn> i think video games are the only expressive medium which can really communicate this sort of idea 01:04 < kanzure> oh? why's that? 01:04 < fenn> movies dont have enough technological detail, explanation of rules and constraints. and books dont have enough 'feel' to them or artistic expression 01:07 < kanzure> that's true, letting players strategically manage self-replicating machines might be easier 01:07 < kanzure> oh right, biology, life itself, etc. 01:08 < kanzure> maybe a way to make a 'game of life' that is true and controllable 01:08 < kanzure> instead of managing a legion of cells on a micro level, something a bit more understandable and visible with more immediate results? 01:09 < fenn> i'm talking about skdb and santa-claus machines 01:09 < fenn> and possibly visions of asteroid belt colonization 01:09 < fenn> have you seen the spore demo? 01:12 < fenn> " When you change the nature of your tools, and especially the scale of production, you are dealing with a new set of rules, a new mode of production, a new industrial paradigm. You must design to suit because now you can’t make things in the same way and must arrive at the same practical results –the same performance– by a different engineering path. " 01:12 < fenn> its this sort of change that people will definitely not understand by reading your book 01:15 < kanzure> I am most certainly not against making video games, but I have to warn you that I have this terrible history of going all out when wanting to make a game, something that can match my own imaginings and so on ... very destructive history in this regard ;-) 01:15 < kanzure> if you're going to make skdb in the first place 01:15 < kanzure> then any video game would just be a simulator aspect 01:15 < kanzure> with human interactive 'debugging' to watch situations unfold, no? 01:16 < fenn> sort of.. it'd also be entertainment and foster community 01:16 < fenn> better than some phpbb crap :) 01:17 < kanzure> heh, no kidding 01:17 < fenn> SL without the hipsters 01:17 * kanzure was hardcore and refused to use phpbb and instead wrote his own forums 01:17 < kanzure> from scratch 01:17 < kanzure> which, in retrospect, wasn't that hard 01:17 < kanzure> I just had to get over myself re: the queries to select from the database per a particular range based off of which page of results the user was on, but after I got over myself that was fine 01:18 < fenn> yeah tat's standard cgi stuff 01:18 < kanzure> I wish somebody would have been there to kick me in the ass to tell me that though 01:18 < kanzure> hehe 01:18 * fenn would have found a better bb software out there 01:19 < kanzure> ikonboard, phpbb, invisionboard, infopop ubb, vbulletin, xmbb, yabb, 01:19 < fenn> heh yabb 01:20 < fenn> web forums all look the same to me 01:20 < kanzure> somebody was on the openvirgle mailing list a few weeks ago saying "screw mailing lists, let's go to a forum" 01:20 < kanzure> and I really wanted to punch him :( 01:20 < fenn> noooo 01:20 < kanzure> he claimed his expertise was that he had a degree in web design 01:20 < fenn> forget threading, forget concurrency, forget content 01:21 < kanzure> forget good interfaces 01:21 < kanzure> HTTP over mysql - what's the point? Just let me tap into the database directly, that's what user accounts are for. 01:21 < kanzure> and if not, then you need to add in hooks or something 01:21 < fenn> for some reason web forums tend to promote 'chatty' posts 01:22 < kanzure> I think it's just the culture that has caught on to it 01:22 < kanzure> I was trapped in that culture for a long time 01:22 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/forums.html <-- but I only exploded once I realized that there was other stuff to talk about on various forums. 02:01 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:17 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:43 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:44 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:01 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:31 -!- Splicer [n=p@h249n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:50 -!- Splicer is now known as Biopunk 18:52 < Biopunk> ah... I thought the nick would only change in #biology 18:54 < kanzure> Heh, no. 18:54 < kanzure> What's up? 18:54 -!- kanzure changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help 18:54 < Biopunk> mmm.. not much.. work 18:55 < Biopunk> you? 18:58 < Biopunk> I noticed BrickIt today 19:10 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:40 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:42 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55 < Biopunk> Reading "The art of memetics - pirate edition"... it has low signal to noise ratio. 19:58 < Biopunk> ...and a lot of references to books on amazon with referral id:s attached ;) 19:59 < Biopunk> fuck 20:01 < Biopunk> I heard they had about 10k downloads a while ago... I wonder how much they make from it in referrals 20:07 < kanzure> http://www.synbiosafe.eu 20:11 < Biopunk> it looks balanced at a first glance 20:12 < Biopunk> only bioDIY is not on that map either 20:18 < Biopunk> a lot of new legislation is eu wide now... it's becoming one country with a lot of resources 20:31 < kanzure> you should see my posts 20:31 < Biopunk> http://www.google.com/trends?q=Genetically+modified+food+ 20:31 < kanzure> They want to 'regulate' synbio, and I really wanted to laugh 20:31 < Biopunk> posts where? 20:31 < kanzure> How are they going to stop the natural course of evolution of the entire planet? 20:31 < kanzure> http://synbiosafe.eu/forum/ 20:37 < Biopunk> i think the rich/poor thing has to do with some french farmers and some strange legislation right now.. something about people not owning crops in their fields if it's mixed with gm crops. It was something weird but there was a debare about it. 20:38 < Biopunk> It's also a common european thing i think... the rich/poor thing 20:40 < Biopunk> I like the google trend curve on gm food, it gets half the amount of hits now compared to 2004 20:40 < kanzure> No, it's common all over the damn place 20:40 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/transhumanism_def.html deals with it too 20:55 < Biopunk> It's not so easy, it's a big field and a lot of people from different memespaces want to carve a nitche... 20:56 < Biopunk> when it comes to things like morality, everyone gets equal time 20:57 < Biopunk> and traditionally that's been a big part of humanism 20:58 < Biopunk> i kindof like to look at biopunk as amoral 20:59 < Biopunk> the same way as memetics and rhethorc is amoral 21:00 < Biopunk> i think that's the way you want to define transhumanism too 21:15 < kanzure> uh? 21:16 < kanzure> no, you mean "not dictated by the historical constraints of what has previously been considered to be 'moral'" 21:16 < kanzure> Here's why - previously, a "moral" action would be to burn a loved one's dead body. WHAT THE FUCK. http://alcor.org/ 21:21 < kanzure> huh, 21:22 < Biopunk> yeah.. that would be one example why i like subcultures that are amoral... 21:22 < Biopunk> morality is a moving target 21:23 < kanzure> it's a personal thing, amoral mostly means "not moral" *both* in the sense of (1) not within the domain of current morality and (2) not possibly within the domain of your own morality [i.e., what you can personally control] 21:23 < Biopunk> that would be 'immoral' i think 21:24 < Biopunk> amoral means recognizing that morals are not applicable here 21:26 < Biopunk> like that saying that planets orbit the sun is an amoral statement even though a church says it will weaken it's position and that will lead to bad things. 21:26 < Biopunk> nature is, evolution is.. amoral 21:29 < kanzure> that's not true, 21:29 < kanzure> would you say that subjectivity is a part of the brain 21:29 < kanzure> that one has this subjective experience of the world 21:30 < kanzure> therefore, this 'subjectivity' is *real* and *natural*, whether you call it morality, ethics, virtues, principles, approaches, etc. 21:33 < Biopunk> you mean 'we are part of nature -> we feel morality -> nature is moral'? 21:35 < kanzure> no? 21:35 < Biopunk> hmm 21:35 < kanzure> I mean that people's subjective experiences are legitimate, they are *physical things* that are right there, they are truly thinking and feeling these thoughts and actions that lead them to say those weird things and so on that might not be technically accurate and so on 21:38 < Biopunk> of course they are...to them at least, and at least until they think about something else. What I'm saying people want to mix them in where they don´t belong... many people have a hard time understanding that morals have absolutely nothing to do with rhetoric for instance. 21:41 < Biopunk> I'm not saying people shouldn't take an intrest in morals. I'm just saying it's not my kink 21:43 < Biopunk> ... it doesn´t belong a lot of places, like most of science for instance. 21:46 < Biopunk> 'we are part of nature -> we feel morality -> nature is moral' 21:46 < Biopunk> 'cheeses are round, the moon is round -> the moon is a cheese' 21:48 < Biopunk> mmm.. bad one 21:49 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:51 < Biopunk> 'Some vehicles go 200mph, I have a bicycle -> my bicycle goes 200mph' 22:13 -!- Aulere [n=dragon_d@131.229.176.252] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:17 < Biopunk> We are part of nature, we feel morals -> nature has morals 22:17 < Biopunk> Bicycles are vehicles, My bicycle is yellow -> Vehicles are yellow 22:18 < Biopunk> time to sleep 22:18 < Biopunk> nite 22:18 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h249n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [] 22:27 < kanzure> Hi Aulere. 22:28 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h249n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:29 < Biopunk> kanzure? 22:30 < kanzure> hm? 22:30 < Biopunk> have you seen the wikipedia 'synthetic biology' page? 22:31 < kanzure> I don't think so, why? 22:31 < Biopunk> you´re on it 22:31 < kanzure> So are you. I put you there. 22:32 < Biopunk> it was you? ;) thank you 22:32 < Biopunk> nite 22:33 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h249n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:00 < Aulere> Hi Kanzure 23:01 < kanzure> Hey there. What's up? 23:01 < Aulere> Finals 23:01 < Aulere> and me 23:01 < Aulere> - I'm up all night these days 23:01 < Aulere> Soon it will be over though. 23:01 < Aulere> What's up with you? 23:19 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/exp.html 23:19 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/quotes.html 23:27 < Aulere> fascinating 23:29 < Aulere> I like the big picture vision 23:33 < kanzure> Hehe. 23:33 < kanzure> The email I cite at the bottom with Eric Hunting. Hm. Eric is able to do long, intense emails. I am trying to figure out how he does it. 23:37 < Aulere> yeah, that is long 23:40 < Aulere> hehe, "where's the open source car?" 23:59 < kanzure> note that on exp.html I have a link to one 23:59 < kanzure> hehe 23:59 < kanzure> http://oscar.org/ IIRC 23:59 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor <-- the guy from usenet who claimed to be from the future