--- Day changed Tue May 13 2008 00:00 < kanzure> http://www.bertsimons.nl/zenphoto/paperworks/ 00:00 < kanzure> he has heads mounted on his wall :) 00:00 < kanzure> hehe 00:08 < fenn> think of the anime possibilities :\ 00:09 < kanzure> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aq.cgi wired sucks 00:10 < kanzure> http://origami.kvi.nl/programs/oridraw/ oridraw software ? doesn't look like a compiler 00:10 < kanzure> ' 00:10 < kanzure> ORIDRAW, ORITOPS and ORITOAIL are programs designed to make Origami diagrams. 00:10 < kanzure> They are not WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) programs: both programs 00:10 < kanzure> read commands from a file and converts them to diagrams.' 00:11 < ybit> okay, i lied. i had to edit a few more things :) 00:11 < ybit> but NOW i'm through 00:12 < kanzure> ybit: haha 00:13 < fenn> there was an interactive java app origami cad program.. site was in japanese 00:14 < fenn> oripa 00:14 < kanzure> I'd like to track down bert's software. 00:14 < fenn> http://mitani.cs.tsukuba.ac.jp/pukiwiki-oripa/index.php?ORIPA%3B%20Origami%20Pattern%20Editor 00:14 < fenn> i actually got it to work 00:17 < ybit> ugh, i give up 00:17 < kanzure> the input is crease pattern documents? 00:17 < ybit> i keep finding new things to edit :P 00:17 < kanzure> ybit: with what? 00:17 < kanzure> there's quite a lot of content, yes 00:17 < fenn> watch the demo movie 00:18 < ybit> on second thought, not so sure if i like the
element 00:21 < ybit> sorry for not having much to say tonight, i didn't get much sleep this previous morning 00:24 * ybit goes to bed 00:24 < ybit> gn 00:25 < kanzure> 'night 00:27 < kanzure> Keith Henson sent me a nasty email :-/ 00:29 < kanzure> http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-May/043411.html 00:31 < kanzure> guess he is just asking for numbers 00:33 < fenn> i'd have to agree with everything he says in that email 00:33 < kanzure> yes, but the whole "Look, I founded the L5" bullshit 00:33 < kanzure> it's certainly quite a feat 00:33 < kanzure> but. 00:34 < fenn> it's not argument from authority if you're the authority :) 00:34 < kanzure> ah 00:36 < fenn> interesting biography 00:36 < kanzure> he's a good friend of Tony, coincidentially 00:36 < kanzure> ah, didn't know his Xanadu connections 00:37 < kanzure> hm, and an ESR connection 00:37 < fenn> The jury verdict of the trial resulted in Henson being convicted of one of the three charges: "interfering with a religion." This misdemeanor charge carried a prison term of six months. 00:37 < fenn> holy WTF batman 00:38 < kanzure> yes, he recently got released 00:38 < kanzure> and so his emails started appearing back on the mailing lists 00:38 < kanzure> with "advisory from my lawyers to never, ever ever mention you know what" 00:55 < kanzure> fenn: what's the best way for me to figure out what 'real' CAD is like 00:55 < fenn> download alibre free edition 00:55 < fenn> dont you just love the name 00:56 < fenn> http://www.alibre.com/xpress/ 02:06 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:32 -!- Vedestin_ [n=chatzill@ct213mac11.newcastle.edu.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:33 < Vedestin_> hey, i've had a thought, someone can someone tell me how ridiculous it is 02:38 < Vedestin_> anyway, so i was wondering if thought patterns, memories, knowledge etc are reinforced in the brain through strengthening of bonds between neurons (correct this if it's wrong) wouldn't there possibly be some substance which could aid this process 02:38 < Vedestin_> my thinking is like how anabolic steroids aid muscle development, this nootropic steroid could aid brain development 02:38 < Vedestin_> and facilitate learning 02:39 < Vedestin_> let me know when you guys get back 02:42 -!- Vedestin_ [n=chatzill@ct213mac11.newcastle.edu.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]"] 04:16 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:42 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:24 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:40 < kanzure> fenn: 07:40 < kanzure> http://constructors.wikidot.com/ 07:40 < kanzure> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/vncprize 07:40 < kanzure> this is Douglas Reay, the guy who's sponsoring the von Neumann Constructor Prize 08:06 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:46 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:12 < Vedestin> bryan is a high school student? 10:15 < fenn> yup 10:20 < Vedestin> ahh ok 10:20 < Vedestin> final year? 10:21 < Vedestin> that explains the passionate idealism 11:34 -!- fenn_ [n=pz@adsl-75-62-113-88.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:34 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help 11:34 -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008] 11:34 [Users #hplusroadmap] 11:34 [ drazak] [ fenn_] [ Phreedom] [ ybit] 11:34 [ fenn ] [ krebs] [ Vedestin] 11:34 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 7 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal] 11:34 -!- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 11:34 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 11:34 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 39 secs 11:50 -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-75-60-173-255.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27 -!- You're now known as fenn 15:07 [Users #hplusroadmap] 15:07 [ drazak] [ fenn] [ krebs] [ Phreedom] [ Vedestin] [ ybit] 15:07 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] 15:24 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:14 < kanzure> fenn: http://sourceforge.net/projects/piquant/ "A Python package extending NumPy and SciPy to allow specification of numbers and arrays with physical units." 19:13 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_art 20:36 < kanzure> fenn: Why does talking with people who don't understand neuroscience (like the ones who want to describe circuits via anthrophomorphization ('awards')) - make me hurt? I feel an actual pain when talking with them. Like I'm ramming my head against a brick wall. Why? 20:55 < fenn> because typically you enjoy communicating with people and you're being blocked? 20:56 < fenn> how to distinguish process art from performance art? 20:56 < fenn> why do people try so hard to be cool? 20:56 < kanzure> fenn: performance art seems to be only realtime, usually involving human actors 20:58 < fenn> today i was playing with cad.py 20:58 < fenn> and another underwhelming cba masters thesis 20:59 < fenn> solar powered tesla turbines, great idea, but didnt exactly inspire me on the fabrication side of things 21:00 < kanzure> I wonder if they are retarded or very good at hiding things 21:00 < kanzure> but why would they hide stuff 21:00 < fenn> i notice they use a different license on software than "the MIT license" 21:01 < fenn> i think they spend more effort connecting with other scientists and the media than direct communication via website 21:02 < fenn> i've found a bunch of neat stuff though when google stumbles upon their internal wiki/blog 21:02 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:03 < fenn> academics are funny, its like they aren't trying to be mean or selfish, they're just clueless 21:03 < fenn> does piquant have any real documentation? 21:04 < kanzure> Not that I can see. 21:04 < kanzure> fenn: Isn't it their job to not be clueless? 21:05 < Vedestin> no 21:05 < Vedestin> their job is to publish papers 21:05 < fenn> unfortunately, vedestin is right 21:05 < fenn> "bibliometry" is like money in academia 21:05 < fenn> the system is totally fucked, but it's self perpetuating and nobody can do anything about it 21:06 < Vedestin> 'publish or perish' is a term often bandied around 21:06 < fenn> it's a truism, but it doesnt reflect the reality of the flawed system we have 21:07 < fenn> things are even worse in japan and china 21:07 < fenn> its some kind of inflationary effect 21:07 < fenn> believe it or not, scientific papers used to be written in plain english 21:07 < fenn> now, you have to write in science-ese so you can pass off your crap research as something worth publishing 21:08 < Phreedom> fenn: still there's a ton of useful stuff published 21:08 < Phreedom> sometimes if the paper is not useful to you, it's really hard to understand why it is useful 21:08 < kanzure> fenn: See the last quote here: http://heybryan.org/2008-05-13_hyperfocusing.html#sus . Quite interesting. 21:08 < Phreedom> of course load of crap are still here 21:09 < Phreedom> *loads 21:09 < kanzure> Phreedom: I agree. You can get to a point where you truly know if it's bullshit or not. 21:09 < kanzure> But you might also be stealing opportunities from yourself, so you have to be careful when glancing over papers. 21:10 < fenn> i just think that if people concentrated more on doing something worth doing, less on publishing papers, they might actually make a difference 21:10 < kanzure> fenn: Those cholinogeric extensions were mentioned in http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html too, so those guys are on to something interesting. 21:10 < kanzure> cholinergic (neuron) projections, I mean. 21:11 < fenn> i just see a lot of jargon that i dont know 21:11 < fenn> sorry i'm not interested in neuroscience 21:11 < Phreedom> you don't have to. have your revenge by making up more words they don't know ;) 21:12 < fenn> Phreedom: i'll just squash them under the boots of my giant robot armor 21:12 < fenn> rawr 21:13 < fenn> kanzure: what are you trying to say about hyperfocusing.html#sus 21:14 < kanzure> fenn: The jargon basically says that (1) the cortices may be mapping goals back into the forebrain regions so that you have 'attentional demands' on your own information, and (2) there have been physical experiments that can modulate attention via acetycholine, NMDA, other molecules like that, extending into the regions that Markram has been studying and simulating. 21:14 < kanzure> It's just my page with some notes on attention. I want to hack my attentional circuits somehow, so I figured I'd do a recursion through the literature tonight (to some extent). 21:15 < kanzure> re: cad.py, did you try unfold.py and http://www.czestmyr.wz.cz/progs/B-Paperizer_04.py ? 21:16 < fenn> no, not yet 21:17 < fenn> i can never remember blender interface keys/gestures 21:19 < kanzure> Who are the guys that do remember it anyway? How much time are they spending on that learning curve ? 21:19 < kanzure> I remember back in 03 when I was playing with 3DS Max and Maya for various reasons ... I could do some functions, but even with my excessive amount of free time (i.e., all day and all night), I never got that far. 21:23 < Vedestin> don't you sleep? 21:25 < kanzure> yeah 21:25 < Vedestin> oh ok 21:25 < Vedestin> how come your school schedule is so light? 21:25 < kanzure> http://www.neuroinf.org/pipermail/comp-neuro/2008-May/000816.html position at Boulder in comp-neurosci ... O'Reilly is a familiar name (turns out it was Superkuh's interest) 21:26 < kanzure> Vedestin: My school schedule is intense - second-year calculus, second-year physics, literature (lots of reading), psych (lots of reading), and then macroeconomics, art, fitness. 21:27 < Vedestin> second year as in second year of a degree 21:27 < Vedestin> or is that an american thing? 21:28 < kanzure> Last year it was fucking intense: second-year bio, second-year physics (yes), anatomy/physiology, American literature, U.S. History, U.S. Government, first-year calculus, speech, and an SAT/ACT review class with the head of the literature department + head of the sci department. :) 21:28 < kanzure> No, it's high school. 21:28 < kanzure> year 12 before university/college 21:28 < fenn> kanzure: do you happen to know where unfold.py is available? 21:28 < kanzure> fenn: IIRC, the blog post said it comes with Blender 2.4.4+ 21:29 < kanzure> in the extensions or plugins dir, however blender doesi t. 21:29 < kanzure> *it 21:29 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/3D_models 21:29 < kanzure> specifically: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=101194 21:29 < fenn> locate and google dont find it 21:29 < kanzure> 'lender 2.44 comes with a script called Unfold. It can easily turn mesh into a flat net, without deforming any faces. What is it good for?' 21:29 < Vedestin> so whats involved in second year calculus 21:30 < kanzure> 'It will help to open one Script window before you start. Unfold is in Scripts > Mesh > Unfold. Then, for all objects one by one, select them, click Unfold and click UV to save the layout (why isnt't this automatical?).' 21:30 < fenn> blah 21:30 < fenn> /usr/share/blender/scripts/blender/mesh_unfolder.py 21:31 < kanzure> Vedestin: http://heybryan.org/school/Calculus/index2.html trigonometric substitution, sequences and series, polynomial approximations, and *supposedly* introductions to partial differentiable equations, separable differential equations, etc. 21:32 < Vedestin> oh i see, that's pretty good for a high school course 21:33 < kanzure> You'd think ... but the teacher is ideologically opposed to being able to talk about the methodology and process. :-/ 21:33 < kanzure> Re: O'Reilly. http://psych-www.colorado.edu/~oreilly/ 21:33 < fenn> hmm. the monkey is too complex so instead of making a flat unfold it unfolds in 3d 21:34 < kanzure> wtf 21:34 < kanzure> fenn: try installing http://www.czestmyr.wz.cz/progs/B-Paperizer_04.py in the plugin dir instead 21:34 < Vedestin> so...what do they do? 21:34 < Vedestin> they show you graphs and talk about the theory of calculus 21:37 < Vedestin> i've got this course this semester, http://webapps.newcastle.edu.au/handbook/index.cfm?event=handbookResults&strm=4885%2C4840%2C4880%2C4815%2C4825%2C4855%2C4800&subject_area=MATH&catalog_id=1110&template=0&timetable=&term_year=2008&course_level= 21:37 < kanzure> Not so much. It's mostly just example problems of short snippits of "theorems" that aren't given rigorous proofs or discussions. 21:37 < Vedestin> then http://webapps.newcastle.edu.au/handbook/index.cfm?event=handbookResults&strm=4885%2C4840%2C4880%2C4815%2C4825%2C4855%2C4800&subject_area=MATH&catalog_id=1120&template=0&timetable=&term_year=2008&course_level= 21:37 < kanzure> I hold that it should be completely possible to compress an entire course into 30 minutes if you know what you're talking about, even at the potential cost of a lack of understanding in the students. And it's only 30 minutes ... 21:37 < kanzure> instead of taking 45 min for 4 problems 21:37 < Vedestin> an entire course? 21:38 < Vedestin> 45 minutes for four problems is fairly long... 21:39 < Vedestin> you'll enjoy university calculus 21:39 < fenn> paperizer only seems to want to make a single triangle 21:39 < fenn> unfold works how i'd expect with a sphere 21:39 < fenn> it provides a number of different ways to unfold too 21:39 < kanzure> fenn: what was wrong with your monkey, then? 21:39 < fenn> well, its not always possible to unfold into a flat plane without overlapping 21:40 < fenn> pepakura gets around that by chopping the unfolded 2d projection into pieces, and then moving the pieces around 21:40 < fenn> something about convexity i think 21:41 < fenn> but paperizer just looks broken 21:44 < kanzure> so we just need to make unfold do some chopping? 21:44 < fenn> unfold almost gets it right.. one would expect a cone to unfold into a circle and a semicircle, but it splits the circle into two pieces 21:44 < kanzure> or do we not care this much ? 21:44 < fenn> eh i dont really care that much 21:44 < kanzure> seems like a job for some topology ?? 21:45 < kanzure> fenn: is it still a suitable demonstration of the system? 21:45 < kanzure> or do we want to go get Bert/Bret/Brent Simons to show us what software he wrote? 21:48 < fenn> some automatic tab numbering would be a lot more convincing 21:53 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Cone.png 21:54 < fenn> that wasn't terribly automated, but i guess one could store all the trial/error i just did in a script somehow 21:58 < fenn> there must be some way to automatically identify convex parts of a mesh and chop them off to unfold separately 21:59 < fenn> oh good "Unfolder saves its nets in SVG format with added metadata describing the relationships between the polygons in the net," 22:00 < fenn> looks something like this 22:00 < kanzure> I can't parse that. 22:00 < kanzure> what does nets:da versus nets:parent mean, for example? 22:00 < kanzure> ofPoly and toPoly might make sense 22:06 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07 < kanzure> wait 22:07 < kanzure> it's SVG? 22:07 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:12 < fenn> i think da is the angle between faces, its a 32 sided cone 22:15 < kanzure> convexity could be established by doing cross-sections in the rendering system and just breaking off the connections 22:15 < kanzure> and then taking the two separate objects and dealing with them separately 22:15 < fenn> it sure has an annoying way of making dashed lines 22:15 < fenn> individual line segments 22:17 < fenn> oh, no, nevermind 22:19 < fenn> starts numbering poly's at 100 for some reason 22:20 < fenn> i gotta say it's pretty cool to move something from blender into inkscape 22:40 < drazak> blender is pretty nice sometimes 23:14 < Phreedom> sometimes? I'd say usually ;) 23:26 < kanzure> I recently (past 2 mo?) discovered blender's python support 23:26 < kanzure> so that was nice 23:38 < fenn> it works; i made a 25-hedron: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0804.JPG 23:39 < fenn> no tabs, just tape 23:41 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/25-hedron.png 23:42 < kanzure> wtf, that's tape? 23:42 < fenn> its paper, cut out, folded, and taped to itself 23:43 < kanzure> you have neat taping abilities, then 23:43 < fenn> actually it was very easy 23:44 < kanzure> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0801.JPG are these yours? 23:45 < fenn> ugh not anymore 23:45 < fenn> well, they were never really mine, it was just assumed they were because i'm the computer nerd right? 23:45 < kanzure> so they just ended up around ? 23:46 < fenn> my roomate took them to his "warehouse" and presumably they're sitting there doing nothing 23:46 < fenn> they used to be on some shelves in the basement and scattered about 23:47 < fenn> then some friends wanted to use a silk-screen machine in the basement so some serious shuffling of crap occurred 23:47 < fenn> to make space for the machine 23:47 < fenn> (they havent used it once) 23:49 < Vedestin> they were going to print t shirts? 23:50 < Vedestin> i think i should switch in to biomedical science 23:51 < kanzure> What are you in? 23:52 < Vedestin> science with a chemistry major 23:53 < Vedestin> just first year 23:57 < kanzure> quick, how do I find cheap flights on the net 23:58 < Vedestin> i use flightcentre 23:58 < Vedestin> but that's for ones leaving australia 23:59 < Vedestin> look for student deals