--- Day changed Sat May 17 2008
00:00 < kanzure> fenn: where's mesh->unfold ? specifically 'mesh'
00:01 < kanzure> I'm in 2.4.4 or something,
00:01 < kanzure> so mesh isn't a menu at the top
00:02 < kanzure> hm, I was there a few minutes ago
00:02 < kanzure> ah, so it's in Edit Mode
00:06 < kanzure> hrm
00:28 < kanzure> fenn: maybe it needs a texture ?
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00:43 < fenn> in the upper right there's a box/menu thingy that you can pull down and select 'scripts'
00:43 < fenn> but i figured you'd already done that since you have an svg file
00:45 < fenn> actually its the lower left of most view windows
00:46 < fenn> bad explanation. i'm out of phase
00:46 < fenn> just logged on because i was laying in bed thinking 'matter compiler' isnt quite right, what we're really doing is a 'design compiler'
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00:56 < kanzure> fenn: 'matter compiler' was in the context of figuring out how to use the instruments in the fablab to make a defined object
00:56 < kanzure> 'design compiler' sounds more like something that would compile designs
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13:29 < kanzure> huh, blender's doing a blender repository
13:29 < kanzure> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1118231#post1118231 <-- so I posted. I suck at writing, by the way.
13:30 < kanzure> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/DbBlender
13:31 < kanzure> ew, a repo via mysql
13:31 < kanzure> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123108
13:31 < kanzure> http://www.blender-materials.org/
13:32 < kanzure> http://www.ece.fr/~schroder/showPlace/BlenderRepoProj/
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14:57 < fenn> a program compiler turns abstract source code into concrete machine code, design compiler turns abstract designs into concrete physical artifacts
14:57 < fenn> but a compiler doesn't have to go all the way to machine code, can go to some bytecode (and design compiler doesnt have to physically realize the artifact either)
14:57 < kanzure> that works, I agree now
14:58 < kanzure> right, the design compiler could ideally go all the way up to the point where all of the machines can have the programs downloaded (or managed by a scheduler for the network; whatever)
15:00  * kanzure has been watching blender vids, but hasn't been going far
15:00 < kanzure> *getting far
15:00 < fenn> i think html tutorials are better
15:01 < fenn> they actually tell you what the keystrokes are, etc
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15:04 < fenn> blender file format is the worst thing ever
15:55 < Phreedom> fenn: legacy stuff can be scary
16:02 < kanzure> fenn: I seem to be able to absorb personalities from others.
16:11 < Phreedom> kanzure: absorb?
16:11  * Phreedom runs away and hides
16:13 < kanzure> Maybe I mean understand. Hm. Anyway, /me gets back to blender.
16:13 < kanzure> It shouldn't be this hard to make a hexapod.
16:54 < fenn> heh
16:55 < fenn> i watched two engineers from ndsu spend a couple hours in pro/e trying to make a hexapod model and not get anywhere
16:55 < kanzure> this is retarded
16:57 < fenn> you might have better luck in a more "mathematical" 3d modeler like k3d or one of the many POV modelers
16:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-05-17.png <-- following the instructions to move a vertex
16:59 < kanzure> 170 MB. hahah
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17:01 < kanzure> Hey Biopunk.
17:02 < Biopunk> hi kanzure
17:03 < Biopunk> seen this: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978371 ?
17:03 < Biopunk> and this: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978433
17:03 < kanzure> Nope, but it's neat
17:03 < fenn> so.. what's that blobby thing?
17:04 < kanzure> fenn: my pathetic attempts at vertex modifying a sphere
17:04 < fenn> oo oo is it a brain?
17:04 < kanzure> nah
17:04 < kanzure> just playing around
17:04 < fenn> well, for one thing, nurbs seems like a more appropriate way to do it
17:04 < kanzure> but that's a good idea
17:04 < kanzure> nurbs?
17:05 < fenn> add->surface->nurbs sphere
17:05 < Biopunk> blender?
17:05 < fenn> ya
17:05 < Biopunk> cool
17:06 < fenn> and if you are a die-hard mesh addict, check out the catmull-* subdivision
17:11 < kanzure> hurray, I got a loop
17:13 < fenn> on purpose?
17:13 < kanzure> yeah
17:13 < kanzure> amazing
17:13 < kanzure> this is like hour 9
17:13 < kanzure> so at this rate I'll be a master in a few decades
17:13 < fenn> if you're trying to recreate the torus knot thingy, should know that i drew it out as a nurbs curve first, then extruded a triangle along it and then converted to a mesh
17:15 < kanzure> how do you convert to mesh?
17:15 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/nurb-curve.png
17:15 < fenn> alt-c
17:16 < fenn> i was following this tutorial (sorta) http://chronosphere.home.comcast.net/~chronosphere/tut-blend-knot.htm
17:16 < fenn> dunno wtf he is talking about empties and hooks though
17:17 < fenn> oh ya 'c' makes the curve cyclic
17:17 < kanzure> I ended up with a flat surface :)
17:17 < fenn> hm? the curve? or the unfolded mesh
17:18 < kanzure> curve
17:18 < kanzure> lemme just follow the tutorail
17:18 < kanzure> *tutorial
17:19 < fenn> ok. i would just move the nurbs control points around in edit mode instead of making hooks
17:19 < fenn> its much easier to understand
17:20 < kanzure> btw, the Google 3D model repository isn't useful
17:20 < kanzure> there's no good Google Sketchup 5 or 6 -> blender conversion script
17:20 < fenn> lamesauce
17:20 < fenn> google doesn't exactly cooperate
17:21 < kanzure> it wouldn't take much effort
17:22 < fenn> the sketchup interface has some neat ideas
17:22 < fenn> i'd definitely want to steal some of them
--- Log closed Sat May 17 17:30:12 2008
--- Log opened Sun May 18 00:18:20 2008
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00:18 -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008]
00:18 [Users #hplusroadmap]
00:18 [ Biopunk] [ fenn] [ kanzure] [ krebs] [ ybit] 
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01:09 < kanzure> We are going to need to start off with some good storage space, some machinery of our own and so on. This isn't going to go well if all we can do is just use printers.
01:15 < kanzure> At the very least some good server space.
01:23 < fenn> i'm sure we can scrounge up a git host somewhere (savannah or berlios?)
01:24 < fenn> or both
01:26 < kanzure> right, but we need to be doing standardized manufacturing, so we'll actually need to be working with some equipment
01:26 < kanzure> unless we expect other people to pick up our slack for us
01:26 < kanzure> which is not the way projects are typically done :)
01:26 < fenn> sure, well, i'd love to have a datron dynamics raptor, but we gotta keep it realistic
01:27 < fenn> and 99% of hobbyists dont have machinery of any sort (maybe a drill press)
01:27 < kanzure> oh, right, we could use one of the common diy drill press projects
01:27 < fenn> what common diy drill press projects?
01:28 < kanzure> one of those open source microcontroller kits + drill + some high powered servo from digikey
01:28 < kanzure> oh, stuff
01:28 < kanzure> hold on
01:28 < fenn> to do.. what?
01:28 < kanzure> to make more tools
01:28 < fenn> aha
01:28 < kanzure> hm, Opera was dead in the background
01:28 < kanzure> so not just a sec  :(
01:28 < kanzure> I have a good number of links to diy cnc, lathes, etc.
01:28 < fenn> ok, no need to spam me then
01:29 < kanzure> k
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01:30 < fenn> if plain threaded rod works out for a beginner hexapod, then you only need a cnc hotwire to make the hexapod, and from there the world's your rowboat
01:31 < fenn> (and a manual drill press of course)
01:31 < Vedestin> hexapod?
01:31 < kanzure> it's a byproduct of fenn's brain
01:31 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/machines/hexapod/
01:31 < fenn> it's not my idea, just my passion
01:31 < kanzure> it's secreted in the dorsal lateral subsection of the hypothalamic cortical circuits
01:31 < fenn> oops one sec
01:31 < kanzure> haha, I thought the server was dead ?
01:32 < fenn> oh, heh. http://fennetic.net/machines/hexapod
01:32 < fenn> i set it back up
01:34 < Vedestin> why do you need this
01:35 < kanzure> why do you need to breath?
01:35 < fenn> because it's better than a milling machine, more appropriate for people who dont own a house + pickup-truck
01:35 < kanzure> fenn: I think he's asking more broadly than that
01:35 < kanzure> not sure though
01:35 < fenn> a lot of people dont understand the underlying premise of building things yourself
01:36 < kanzure> isn't that peculiar.
01:36 < fenn> my parents for example
01:36 < kanzure> I mean, really. they understand sex
01:36 < fenn> sex isnt about self replication, it's about error correction
01:37 < kanzure> no, I mean building
01:37 < fenn> um.. what?
01:37 < kanzure> you said that people don't seem to understand the idea of building things themselves
01:38 < kanzure> the premise of building things on your own, or i.e. the basis of plowing women
01:38 < fenn> i dont really see the connection
01:38 < kanzure> 'basis' is probably a little strong
01:38 < kanzure> the connection is that they want to do it
01:38 < kanzure> and that they are the ones that have to get it happening
01:38 < kanzure> yes?
01:39 < kanzure> bad example
01:39 < fenn> indeed
01:39 < Vedestin> so you're going to build one of these platforms and mount it under a radial drill
01:39 < Vedestin> to use as a milling machine
01:39 < fenn> no, more likely i'll put a milling spindle on the platform
01:39 < fenn> see hextatic
01:39 < fenn> er, http://fennetic.net/machines/hextatic
01:40 < fenn> this way all the forces are contained within the machine structure
01:41 < fenn> no need to bolt to a concrete slab or whatever
01:42 < fenn> kanzure: i really think the cultural lack of wanting to build things is going to be a big obstacle
01:42 < kanzure> what about the maker culture?
01:42 < kanzure> it seems to be growing
01:42 < fenn> they're dilettantes
01:42 < kanzure> or at least exhibiting itself
01:42 < fenn> nothing practical ever comes out of make
01:43 < kanzure> synthetic biology
01:43 < fenn> where
01:43 < Vedestin> bolting things to a concrete slab is pretty cheap
01:43 < fenn> Vedestin: only if you have a concrete slab
01:43 < Vedestin> yeah
01:44 < Vedestin> laying a concrete slab is a bit more expensive...
01:44 < kanzure> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/an_open_source_synthetic.html
01:44 < kanzure> oh shit
01:44 < kanzure> that's me.
01:44 < fenn> rofl
01:46 < kanzure> there's a channel somewhere near hplusroadmap in terms of number of users that does openstreetmapping or something
01:46 < kanzure> might be good for resource mapping
01:48 < fenn> what sort of resources?
01:49 < Vedestin> thats pretty interesting fenn
01:49 < Vedestin> the hextatic
01:50 < kanzure> fenn: stuff in the area, metals, stuff under the ground, geotagging, whatever gets us our stuffs
01:50 < kanzure> was it you who mentioned homeless people in a soc-net ?
01:50 < kanzure> anyway, we could use homeless mobs to do geotagging
01:50 < kanzure> plus tell them where to get free food at the same time
01:51 < fenn> hey this arduino nano looks halfway decent: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/05/arduino_nano.html
01:51 < kanzure> arduino the microcontroller kit
01:51 < fenn> arduino the meme
01:51 < kanzure> hm
01:53 < fenn> oh, fifty bucks, nevermind :P
01:54 < fenn> anyway it'd make a good prototyping tool at the cost of components
01:55 < kanzure> yes
01:55 < kanzure> btw, I think an alternative computing architecture (not silicon) is a priority -- eventually
01:55 < kanzure> certainly not now, and certainly not when things start to roll
01:55 < kanzure> but the idea of maybe using graphene to sketch out circuits on a flake is much easier to implement than silicon manufacturing
01:58 < fenn> i'm sure the journal of unconventional computing has an idea or two
02:00 < fenn> eh maybe not
02:03 < fenn> hmmm.. http://www.paper-wars.com/?q=news/n
02:03 < kanzure> oh, I know!
02:03 < kanzure> smoke signals!
02:04 < fenn> yes, all we need is a couple acres of forest and some homeless people (indians)
02:04 < fenn> i mean.. wait, how's that supposed to solve anything?
02:06 < kanzure> mapping out resources
02:06 < kanzure> so that we can use them
02:06 < kanzure> but smoke signals was meant as a solution to computing without silicon
02:26 < Vedestin> smoke signals?
02:27 < kanzure> sure, it's just flipping bits
02:27 < Vedestin> im not sure it's really computing
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03:10 < kanzure> http://www.directededge.com/Bungipedia-Linus.jpg
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06:00 < Phreedom> fenn: are there any news re: your hexapod? are you going to/building it already?
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14:45 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Societal_engineering_knowledge_database#2008-05-14:_pepakura New additions made (scroll down)
14:45 < kanzure> Although for some reason my brain isn't making the leap that it has to. Very werid.
14:45 < kanzure> *weird.
15:00 < nsh> should
15:00 < nsh> try making a 
15:00 < nsh> (*racks brain for name...*)
15:01 < nsh> it's the midpoint of a particular family of sphere eversions
15:01 < nsh> although, that might be difficult because of the self-intersection
15:04 < nsh> ah, Morin surface
15:18 < kanzure> blender has so thoroughly wooped my ass
15:18 < kanzure> I spent way too many hours yesterday on it
15:18 < kanzure> so now I'm left wondering what it is that I am going to do next
15:18 < kanzure> putting blender in between you and your goals is a *bad* idea
15:20 < nsh> indeed
16:51 < kanzure> hexayurts = very cheap houses
16:51 < kanzure> (according to Noah)
16:51 < fenn> yeah but... something
16:52 < fenn> better than many designs
16:53 < fenn> huh. the radio antenna on hexayurt.com looks exactly like the solar concentrators i was looking at yesterday
16:53 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/thread.html <-- new stuffing
16:56 < fenn> hexayurt.com is conspicuously missing the actual design files
16:56 < fenn> i.e. "dont make it out of isocyanurate" but wtf do they make it frmo?
16:58 < fenn> this is as close as it gets to a plan: "Look at the picture and go through the steps in your mind again. You get the boards and you get the tape. Then you cut some of the boards into triangles, and tape them together to make the roof, and then you tape the roof to the walls and you are done. You just built a Hexayurt."
16:59 < kanzure> that sucks
16:59 < kanzure> but otherwise it looks interesting
17:00 < kanzure> wait
17:00 < kanzure> http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_schematics
17:00 < kanzure> hm, "Appropedia - the sustainability wiki"
17:00 < kanzure> they must hate me :)
17:00 < fenn> yes i'm looking at that page - there's no plans on it
17:01 < fenn> its all just "this is a hexayurt. this is easy. if you mess up you must be a fucking retard"
17:01 < kanzure> the second image is "How to build it"
17:02 < fenn> not so
17:02 < fenn> look at the triangles on the roof, they're actually made of two triangles
17:02 < fenn> but in the drawing it's just one triangle - how does that nest from a 4x8 sheet
17:03 < kanzure> wait, what?
17:03 < fenn> roof panels approximate an equilateral triangle (with beveled edges maybe)
17:04 < fenn> i'm just saying there's lots of opportunity to mess up because there isnt enough information
17:05 < fenn> oh crap i was looking at http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_Playa
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18:07 < fenn> the world’s first commercially available automatic electric solar powered hybrid robotic lawn mower. The mower will cut for around 40 minutes, and then charge for 40 minutes in its charging station. http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/13290/14314/hysqvarna-auto-mower-solar-power.phtml
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18:10 < fenn> ok, so, not as cool as i thought
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18:48 < kanzure> Heh heh, focus :)
18:48 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-05-18
18:48 < kanzure> trying to write the essay for Sirius' H+ magazine.
19:08 < nsh> can't stop the signal, mal
19:08  * nsh goes to sleep dreaming of hang drums and infrasound helmholtz resonance in quartz crystals at the great pyramid of giza
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19:53 < kanzure> So, I got my graduation present, or at least knowledge of it.
19:53 < kanzure> As it turns out, my grandmother wishes to purchase all of my first year college textbooks.
19:53 < kanzure> This is rather problematic, considering I was planning on stealing all of them.
20:07 < fenn> normally, i'd say "what a lame graduation present" but it's understandable, given your book mania
20:07 < kanzure> I suppose so
20:08 < kanzure> but I was going to steal them anyway
20:08 < kanzure> hrm
20:08 < kanzure> so maybe I can get into first year classes that I actually want the books to
20:08 < kanzure> instead of some stupid curriculum
20:11 < fenn> you need to explain why ubuntu/debian is relevant to skdb
20:12 < kanzure> I could do a "look at how well it works" tie-in
20:12 < fenn> in the big blank space between debian quotage and 'concerns of the ai symbol grounding problem'
20:12 < kanzure> there? or before the debian quotage?
20:13 < fenn> dunno, there is just this big non-sequitur
20:16 < fenn> this sentence doesn't really work (not enough semantic content, maybe an example?) "The community needs to start with some tools, some resources. Then we can make some more tools with those resources, and give them to other people."
20:17 < kanzure> hrm, that is kind of bad
20:17 < kanzure> I was trying to get across the idea that we can bootstrap the community via tooling ourselves up
20:17 < kanzure> and then by installing more labs by either shipping tools or giving out instructions and where to get the parts, we could make it into a loop
20:17 < kanzure> erm, loop
20:17 < fenn> right, but the reader doesnt know that, they might misinterpret it as saying 'free lunch for everyone'
20:17 < kanzure> as in the way that we download the debian distro
20:17 < kanzure> ah
20:17 < kanzure> that's a good point
20:18 < kanzure> really it's a matter of who we want to give it to *until* we get SR going
20:18 < kanzure> but at the same time
20:18 < kanzure> if somebody wants to copy the information and do it themselves
20:18 < kanzure> that's very easy for them to do.
20:18 < fenn> human-assisted self replication is close enough
20:18  * fenn dons his honeybee outfit
20:18 < kanzure> hah
20:20 < kanzure> good analogy
20:21 < fenn> heh 'financial obesity'
20:35 < kanzure> kfljadlkfjdkl
20:35 < kanzure> I did not need to learn how much money the HS peers earned
20:35 < kanzure> a friend just got back from the 'awards ceremony'
20:35 < kanzure> where they announce scholarships, awards, money, grants, etc., that students at the high school have received
20:36 < kanzure> just fyi, I've seen not a single cent or sign of recognition from anybody whatsoever, and I'm definitely "up there" when in it comes to the numbers
20:36 < kanzure> so I've learned that a certain person got $500k + recommendation from Bush,
20:36 < kanzure> another guy got $50k,
20:36 < kanzure> didn't need to learn this.
20:36 < kanzure> I wish them well, but :-/ 
20:36 < kanzure> http://youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo (the end of the life of brian)
20:49 < fenn> i dont really get scare-mongering like this http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm
20:49 < fenn> as if "joblessness" is the worst thing that could possibly happen to someone
20:51 < fenn> $500k out of high school? really?
20:51 < kanzure> yes
20:51 < fenn> how does that work?
20:52 < kanzure> no fucking clue
20:52 < kanzure> is it his ability to process information?
20:52 < kanzure> no, not really
20:52 < kanzure> is it his ability to do good projects?
20:52 < kanzure> he did nothing like that
20:52 < kanzure> so what are they funding there?
20:52 < kanzure> the military, I guess.
20:52 < fenn> what was the money for/from?
20:53 < kanzure> for west point.
20:53 < fenn> is that how much tuition costs?
20:53 < kanzure> from something - whatever it was, he was endorsed by the president
20:53 < kanzure> no, but let me double check
20:56 < kanzure> fenn: http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/obligations.cfm
20:56 < kanzure> tuition is free
20:59 < kanzure> do you know how much we could get done with $500k ?
20:59 < fenn> hmm i doubt that "initial deposit" is $500k either
20:59 < fenn> you should ask him what the money is for
20:59 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:00 < kanzure> yes, I suppose I should
21:01 < kanzure> the valedictorian also got $50k or $100k, I don't know which
21:01 < kanzure> he flies around the world in jets to go to skiing competitions.
21:01 < kanzure> so is typically not in school
21:02 < kanzure> but somehow still maintains two women
21:02 < fenn> well, that should be obvious enough
21:02 < kanzure> hm?
21:03 < kanzure> smart enough to maintain his women, I guess
21:12 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/docs/cheat_sheet_writing.pdf <--- fallacious arguments
21:43 < ybit> heh, i <3 the life of brian :)
21:43 < ybit> ..the movie
21:51 < Vedestin> not bryan
21:51 < kanzure> heh
22:30 < kanzure> silly new email dumped on the mailing list re: intentional programming
22:35 < fenn> looks like you've been busy today
23:12 < kanzure> http://cns.utexas.edu/current_students/degrees/ 
23:12 < kanzure> Natural Sciences students initially enroll in an entry-level major. After completing some of the courses required for the degree, each student selects the major and the option he or she plans to pursue."
23:12 < kanzure> "For example, all applicants interested in a career in physics apply to the entry-level Physics major. 
23:12 < kanzure> After completing entry-level courses, the student chooses to pursue either the Bachelor of Arts in Physics or the Bachelor of Science in Physics with an option in physics, computation, radiation physics, space sciences, or teaching.
23:12 < kanzure> so basically they are forcing you down a specific path
23:12 < kanzure>  with only a limited number of options
23:12 < kanzure> as opposed to me paying for the classes that I want to take
23:12 < kanzure> why can't I just take the classes I want to take?
23:13 < kanzure> my dad took a writing class at UT last year, 
23:13 < kanzure> so why can't I just pile on classes like that ?
23:13 < Vedestin> they're not forcing you
23:14 < Vedestin> they're just saying that's what you have to do in order for them to give you that degree
23:14 < kanzure> why do I want a degree ?
23:15 < kanzure> heh, they actually have 'interdiscplinary science' as a narrow, degree.
23:15 < kanzure> http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar/catalogs/ug06-08/ch11/ch11e.html#Bachelor.of.Science.in.Interdisciplinary.Science
23:16 < kanzure> oh, it's only for teachers
23:20 < Vedestin> you don't want a degree
23:20 < Vedestin> you should be able to study any course you want as a non award student
23:21 < kanzure> this is at least four years of "dad pays for your education, take as much as you want"
23:21 < Vedestin> just do science man
23:22 < fenn> kanzure: you want a degree because otherwise you never graduate
23:22 < fenn> and that is worse than not going to college mmkay?
23:22 < kanzure> oh, you have to have a degree to graduate?
23:22 < kanzure> hm
23:22 < Vedestin> yes, yes you do
23:23 < Vedestin> but, if you don't want a degree you don't have to study in any structured way
23:23 < Vedestin> actually, you can get an arts degree by not studying in any structured way
23:23 < Vedestin> you just look at it at the end, identify the common trend and say that's your major
23:24 < kanzure> yes, but they want you to follow the exact curriculum
23:24 < fenn> usually with 'individualized major programs' you have to explain what you're doing first, not figure out what you did
23:26 < kanzure> but UT doesn't have these
23:27 < Vedestin> come study over here, it's much more free
23:28 < kanzure> where?
23:28 < Vedestin> australia
23:29 < kanzure> oh man
23:29 < kanzure> we're so racist
23:29 < kanzure> http://www.utexas.edu/
23:29 < kanzure> Black Engineers student group wins award
23:29 < kanzure> Chapter of National Society of Black Engineers named "National Large Chapter of the Year."
23:29 < kanzure> "Well. We couldn't think of anything else to award them. And they're big. And black. So."
23:29 < fenn> it's not "racist" it's "affirmative" ;)
23:29 < kanzure> ah, right
23:30 < fenn> maybe the large part is like little leage softball
23:31 < fenn> to make competition fair, so large chapters arent competing with small chapters
23:31 < fenn> i mean, that's the point of societies, to win awards, right?
23:32 < fenn> maybe we could include awards in skdb
23:32 < fenn> societal engineering society award
23:33 < kanzure> oh boy
23:33 < kanzure> http://registrar.utexas.edu/students/degrees/ida/
23:33 < kanzure> "online degree audit"
23:33 < kanzure> in other words, it's a logic state system
23:33 < kanzure> "You fail, you don't pass go - stick to the rules"
23:33 < kanzure> fenn: sure, but it has to mean something to other peopl
23:33 < kanzure> *people
23:34 < Vedestin> we don't do that
23:34 < kanzure> I mean, internally, we know who does good work
23:34 < kanzure> 'IDA is the interactive degree audit system for students pursuing degrees at UT Austin. Using IDA you may view and request degree audits online, project how future courses might apply toward your degree, and locate advising resources.'
23:34 < kanzure> 'Prospective students may use the IDA planner to estimate how courses from other institutions might apply to UT Austin degrees. IDA provides a computer-generated report of your progress toward completion of the requirements for a specific program at UT Austin. If changes to your record have occurred since your last audit was run, you must create a new audit for those changes to be included.
23:34 < kanzure> this is retarded
23:34 < Vedestin> a lot of universities do similar things kanzure
23:34 < fenn> kanzure: lol at IU when you go to your "academic advisor" they just sit down and play the computer game and talk to you
23:34 < kanzure> computer game?
23:34 < kanzure> "Ah, I see this fits ... not."
23:35 < kanzure> that thing?
23:35 < fenn> right
23:35 < fenn> i mean they just open up your entry in the db and run the logic engine with you
23:35 < fenn> but you can do the same thing without having to make an appointment etc
23:35 < kanzure> retarded
23:36 < fenn> yeah and that was the "honors" advisor, apparently the normal ones are even worse
23:37 < fenn> i mean, there's nothing wrong with a computerized requirements checker, but come on, at least gimme something in return for those $k's 
23:37 < kanzure> http://cns.utexas.edu/students/advising/frequently_asked_questions.asp "there will be no questions"
23:37 < Vedestin> lol
23:37 < Vedestin> sounds like great fun
23:38 < Vedestin> NO QUESTIONS! ONLY LECTURES!
23:38 < Vedestin> why are you going to Texas, kanzure
23:38 < kanzure> Vedestin: I was accepted only by two schools, Wisconsin and Texas.
23:38 < Vedestin> what's wrong with your grades?
23:38 < kanzure> my grades are fine
23:38 < kanzure> they are fantastic
23:38 < Vedestin> then why didn't they accept you?
23:38 < kanzure> I applied all over the place
23:38 < kanzure> who?
23:39 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/school/edu.html
23:39 < Vedestin> the better schools
23:39 < kanzure> dunno :)
23:39 < kanzure> maybe it's because I'm white
23:39 < Vedestin> well, you don't seem like an incapable sort of student, i don't know why they wouldn't want to have you
23:39 < fenn> wouldnt it be nice if they said why
23:39 < Vedestin> could be
23:39 < kanzure> and didn't do a bagjillion community service activities
23:39 < kanzure> fenn: same with women
23:39 < kanzure> you will never, ever be told 'why'
23:39 < Vedestin> we don't do that here...
23:39 < fenn> most women dont know why
23:39 < Vedestin> we have an admission index
23:39 < fenn> otherwise they probably wouldnt stick with assholes so often
23:40 < Vedestin> your academic results are calculated in to that index and you're accepted based on that
23:40 < fenn> 'he reminds me of my abusive father'
23:40 < Vedestin> some things have interview processes
23:40 < Vedestin> like medicine
23:40 < kanzure> basically I didn't do any community activity in the local area
23:40 < Vedestin> so?
23:40 < kanzure> and they don't count internet stuff
23:41 < fenn> well duh, the internet is a threat
23:41 < kanzure> even though I've been what I suspect has been a very helpful person
23:41 < kanzure> right
23:41 < Vedestin> i don't see why community activity matters?
23:41 < kanzure> "what if everybody got free educational support! blasphemy!"
23:41 < kanzure> well, I am active in communities, but it's a larger community
23:41 < kanzure> not just the local carwash or whatever
23:41 < Vedestin> you should go to sydney or melbourne
23:41 < kanzure> or dog fair or whatever it is this month
23:41 < fenn> also it's hard to explain the difference between chatting on a topical mailing list and chatting on some forum about bmw's
23:41 < kanzure> yeah, I have a few friends in Melbourne that I should meet
23:41 < kanzure> yes, that's true
23:42 < kanzure> and 'chatting' isn't the right word either
23:42 < Vedestin> go there and talk to the universities in melbourne
23:42 < kanzure> I don't think they understand how useful an open source genetic engineering kit is
23:42 < kanzure> or what it *means*
23:42 < kanzure> implies, at least
23:43 < Vedestin> go to monash
23:43 < Vedestin> or atleast look at monash
23:43 < kanzure> I should have picked Wisconsin
23:43 < kanzure> it's an intense engineering/sci school :)
23:43 < kanzure> good weather
23:43 < fenn> heh hope you like snow
23:43 < kanzure> kind of expensive, especially since I got no money from them
23:43 < kanzure> snow is much better than 100 deg F
23:43 < kanzure> I can't think in heat
23:44 < kanzure> I suspect if I ever move north my IQ will effectively double
23:44 < fenn> hmm
23:44 < Vedestin> i bet austin has air conditioners
23:44 < kanzure> it has on the occassions that I have vacationed up there
23:44 < kanzure> Vedestin: yes, I live in Austin
23:44 < kanzure> or just south of it, really
23:44 < kanzure> and you do *not* live here without A/C
23:44 < kanzure> 'not having AC' is an unheard of concept
23:44 < Vedestin> i live in australia kanzure
23:44 < Vedestin> i know what heat is
23:44 < fenn> what's your electric bill like? do you know?
23:44 < kanzure> I was very surprised to learn that people in Boston don't have AC installed by default
23:44 < kanzure> fenn: it's $200~
23:45 < kanzure> >$200
23:45 < Vedestin> per week? month? quarter?
23:45 < kanzure> month
23:45 < kanzure> shit-processing is $60/mo, it's more expensive than the water bill itself
23:45 < fenn> surprised there isnt more work on solar air conditioning
23:45 < fenn> why? water shortage?
23:45 < kanzure> no
23:46 < kanzure> there is no reason *why*
23:46 < kanzure> this place just sucks :)
23:46 < fenn> it's probably just an austin thing
23:46 < Vedestin> lol, they keep building desal plants here
23:46 < Vedestin> it's piss funny
23:46 < kanzure> no competition with internet cabling either, it's all Time Warner, so we get kicked in the ass a lot
23:46 < fenn> that's something that seems so easy to change
23:46 < kanzure> same with electricity
23:47 < kanzure> how's that ?
23:47 < kanzure> lay new copper?
23:47 < kanzure> or fiber, really
23:47 < fenn> give people a wireless mesh node, jumpstart the system by spreading them in key locations..
23:47 < kanzure> sure
23:47 < kanzure> but who will foot the bill for the pipe that it has to be connected to?
23:47 < fenn> charge them for access, silly
23:47 < kanzure> you can't have a 100-person mesh
23:47 < kanzure> but they will say that's illegal
23:47 < Vedestin> you can with freenet
23:47 < kanzure> of course, not if they don't know about it
23:47 < fenn> wtf, start your own ISP
23:47 < kanzure> fenn: yeah, but who will I plug into?
23:48 < fenn> the fucking backbone!
23:48 < kanzure> don't you need to be FCC compatible etc.?
23:48 < fenn> um.. no?
23:48 < Vedestin> for wireless?
23:48 < kanzure> no, for the backbone plugging, Vedestin.
23:48 < kanzure> where's the backbone then?
23:48 < Vedestin> oh
23:48 < kanzure> I mean, the major node that I need to connect to?
23:48 < fenn> FCC doesnt apply to the internet does it?
23:48 < kanzure> I thought so?
23:48 < Vedestin> fcc is airways
23:48 < kanzure> maybe not
23:48 < kanzure> yes, but
23:49 < fenn> if it did, then you wouldnt be allowed to cuss on irc :)
23:49 < kanzure> it was my understanding there was a good reason why we had no local competition
23:49 < kanzure> i.e., because the backbone here is all *owned* by the same company giving out access
23:49 < fenn> ah, so they probably laid the fiber from dallas or wherever
23:50 < kanzure> yeah
23:50 < Vedestin> you could lay your own cable to japan
23:50 < fenn> one could feasibly piggyback microwave transmitters on cellphone towers
23:50 < Vedestin> hmmm, what sort of latency would you have
23:50 < fenn> i mean, how much latency is tolerable?
23:51 < fenn> 25ms to google
23:51 < fenn> 86ms to freenode
23:51 < fenn> i know nothing about microwave router latency
23:52 < Vedestin> neither do i
23:53 < kanzure> I guess the latency would be in decoding/encoding ?
23:53 < kanzure> since it's all photons
23:53 < kanzure> how long before a data packet would be transmitted?
23:53 < kanzure> ah, a good test is to go find somebody with a phone
23:53 < kanzure> do some triangulation and so on
23:55 < Vedestin> or ask someone who knows
23:57 < fenn> in switched packet networks you have to receive the whole packet before forwarding it?
23:57 < kanzure> hm
23:57 < fenn> or at least have to receive the destination part of the packet
23:57 < kanzure> that's a good question
23:57 < kanzure> 'packet streaming' ?
23:57 < fenn> meh.
23:57 < kanzure> internet-streaming is just streaming-of-discrete-packets, not continuous packets
23:57 < kanzure> but that's not what you asked.
23:58 < fenn> just speculating on where latency comes from
23:58 < kanzure> my router.
23:58 < kanzure> although I can't figure out where my current latency is coming from