--- Day changed Mon May 19 2008
00:00 < Vedestin> their routing software
00:04 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.engr.utexas.edu/che/students/undergrad/documents/06-08SAC_000.pdf
00:04 < kanzure> it's not too bad in the end
00:04 < kanzure> that's the chemical engineering curriculum
00:04 < kanzure> classes that might be worth it:
00:04 < kanzure> lab instrumentation, electronics machinery, chem engr process & materials, reactor analysis & design, process control/design, and then the technical area electives.
00:05 < kanzure> maybe the separation class, that's always important
00:05 < kanzure> of course, I'm not against anything on that list per-se, just that I'd like some flexibility :)
00:06 < kanzure> like, I don't know, not taking the core corriculum (american govt, literature (I can always read Wikipedia to hear what I'm going to hear in there), soc-sci, hist., 
00:06 < kanzure> hrm
00:06 < kanzure> don't know.
00:22 < kanzure> http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/18/1253258
00:22 < kanzure> Shit.
00:22 < kanzure> Missed that one.
00:23 < fenn> i think you will be underwhelmed
00:25 < fenn> just think about what you've learned in the last 4 years and compare with that curriculum
00:26 < fenn> wow two courses in american history
00:26 < fenn> and two american government wtf
00:43 < kanzure> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=556554&cid=23458618 My post on Slashdot re: brain hacking, sandboxing, etc.
00:46 < kanzure> Hm. I'm not going to get karma for that one.
00:49 < Vedestin> kanzure, ever met chemical engineers?
00:49 < kanzure> Nope.
00:49 < kanzure> yes, actually
00:49 < kanzure> my calculus/physics teacher is a chemical engineer
00:49 < Vedestin> really?
00:49 < Vedestin> isn't he a teacher?
00:49 < kanzure> yep
00:49 < kanzure> yes he is
00:49 < Vedestin> he works part time in chem eng?
00:50 < Vedestin> or he's just trained in it
00:50 < kanzure> no, he has a degree in it
00:50 < kanzure> 'trained' is a different story (=no)
00:50 < Vedestin> well, in my experience
00:50 < Vedestin> chemical engineers are either intensely dull
00:50 < Vedestin> intensely arrogant
00:50 < Vedestin> or a horrible mix of both
00:50 < Vedestin> which would normally be ok
00:51 < Vedestin> except that chemical engineers tend to teach chemical engineering courses
00:51 < kanzure> it's definitely something I'm interested in though - this is where you get into manufacturing automation, plus chemistry is an intense analytical science on its own
00:51 < Vedestin> they're different
00:51 < Vedestin> chemical engineering should really be called process engineering
00:57 < Vedestin> what are they researching at austin that you'd want to be involved with kanzure
00:58 < kanzure> Vedestin: http://ellingtonlab.org/ - automated engineering for the acceleration of natural evolution
00:59 < Vedestin> ahh ok, sounds interesting
01:02 < Vedestin> i'm going to go battle bureaucracy for a while
01:02 < Vedestin> bye
01:02 < kanzure> k
01:05 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #hplusroadmap []
01:07 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:08 < kanzure> fenn: just if you haven't seen Ed yet, http://edboyden.org/
01:09 < fenn> hm interesting this was just mentioned on some mailing list or other since i was just reading about it from marshallbrain.com http://www.aber.ac.uk/compsci/Research/bio/robotsci/
01:10 < kanzure> that was on my mailing list
01:10 < kanzure> heh
01:10 < fenn> omg too much stuff
01:10 < kanzure> hm?
01:10 < kanzure> Ed Boyden?
01:10 < kanzure> yeah, he's kind of like me
01:10 < kanzure> it's interesting though
01:10 < kanzure> he also knows Superkuh
01:11 < fenn> oh he's the "everything i learned at MIT" guy
01:11 < kanzure> I talked to him on the phone before.
01:11 < fenn> totally useless but that's what i remembered
01:12 < kanzure> remember him more as the "guy who is using lasers to control neurons"
01:12 < kanzure> and the guy who is associated with http://www.innerspacefoundation.org/
01:12 < kanzure> woah, John Cumbers just offered hplusroadmap some moonrocks :)
01:12 < fenn> eh.. real moon rocks?
01:13 < kanzure> not real moon rocks, but stuff that is chemically essentially the same stuff
01:13 < kanzure> 'recommended production of two root simulants corresponding
01:13 < kanzure> to a low-Ti mare basalt and a high-Ca highland
01:13 < kanzure> *anorthosite. *These roots represent compositional
01:13 < kanzure> end-members of mare and highland materials, and can
01:13 < kanzure> in principle be physically mixed to target the range of
01:13 < kanzure> soil compositions in the Apollo inventory. Lunar mare
01:13 < kanzure> basalt simulant *JSC-1A *approximates Apollo 14 basalts
01:13 < kanzure> with relatively low-Ti content, and was obtaiggd
01:13 < kanzure> by milling and sieving a glassy volcanic ash from Merriam
01:13 < kanzure> Crater in Arizona (*JSC-1AF = finer grade)*
01:14 < fenn> okies.. i'll keep it in mind if i ever need some lunar regolith simulant :)
01:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Moontank is the obvious application
01:15 < kanzure> fenn: if I go back and make those edits to the [[2008-05-18]] page, what new things should I add to it?
01:15 < kanzure> it's supposed to be showing up in a magazine for transhumanists among others
01:16 < kanzure> so I'm trying to show that they can actually contribute / get people onboard etc.
01:16 < fenn> one sec, lemme transfer to laptop/bedroom
01:16 < kanzure> I'm going brb
01:28 < fenn>  /away
01:28 < fenn> heh
01:28 < fenn> I HAVE ARRIVED
01:28 < kanzure> hm?
01:29 < fenn> i wonder what would happen if the cat walked on the keyboard when i have multiple screen sessions open
01:30 < fenn> 2005-08-18 is what exactly?
01:31 < kanzure> 2008-05-18
01:31 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-05-18
01:31 < kanzure> it's supposed to become an essay for the Sirius H+ magazine
01:31 < kanzure> meant to be a dense, but accessible, introduction to SKDB
01:32 < fenn> do you know what eric is talking about with Taylor-* stuff?
01:33 < kanzure> hm
01:33 < kanzure> well, wikipedia calls it 'scientific management'
01:33 < kanzure> I think this just means 'thoughtful management'
01:34 < kanzure> uh, shit
01:34 < kanzure> I need some sleep, fenn
01:34 < fenn> g'nites
01:34 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
01:47 < fenn> He distinguishes "Process", the course of material that is transformed into product, from "Operation" which are the actions performed on the material by workers and machines. 
06:29 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:30 < Vedestin> synergism is a pretty interesting concept
06:30 < Vedestin> in biological systems
07:12 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:01 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:24 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
12:05 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:08 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:52 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h203n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:44 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:49 < Biopunk> hi kanzure
17:50 < kanzure> Hey Biopunk.
18:03 < kanzure> http://www.acscinf.org/
18:10 < Biopunk> American Chemical Society
18:11 < Biopunk> sounds like something chemical brothers could be members of
18:12  * Biopunk softly sings "hey boy, hey girl..."
19:13 < fenn> http://smari.yaxic.org/blag/2008/05/19/building-a-post-scarcity-society-in-a-patent-and-copyright-encumbered-intellectual-climate/
19:37 < Biopunk> it's not so easy to find a good solution for the patent problem
19:39 < Biopunk> everyone agrees there has to be a change I think, except disney... well they too.. only they want progressively longer patents
19:47 < fenn> grr tapr.org is making all the same stupid mistakes that we're finally rooting out in the free software world, "because hardware is different! wah!" 
19:51 < kanzure> "No! No different! Only different in your mind."
19:51 < kanzure> ooh, it was you
19:52 < fenn> yeah i just wanted to nudge smari in the right direction
19:52 < fenn> i guess it worked
19:52 < kanzure> good job
19:52 < kanzure> we'll have to do a followup with him later
19:53 < kanzure> fenn: do you have a mental bootup "time" / routine?
19:53 < kanzure> I just spent 40 minutes in the kitchen, a significant time of which was on the floor looking in cupboards
19:53 < kanzure> I am not sure why, though.
19:53 < fenn> yeah i often do dishes generated by my roomates during that time
19:53 < kanzure> At one point I realized that I was being inattentive and unable to do big/long thoughts, so I took the medication
19:53 < fenn> "the medication"?
19:54 < kanzure> well, I take Adderall
19:54 < fenn> oh, why?
19:54 < kanzure> so earlier today I didn't take it
19:54 < kanzure> it's med for ADHD apparently :)
19:54 < kanzure> the H stands for hyperactive, but more usefully perhaps H+ ;-)
19:54 < fenn> heh
19:54 < fenn> hilarious++
19:54 < kanzure> but I soon realized the error in that, "oh shit, that's why I'm not doing anything"
19:55 < kanzure> so I went back and took some of the smaller dosages that I used to take in the afternoons
19:55 < kanzure> (recently I switched to doing the full morning dose in the afternoon as well, you can probably tell)O
19:55 < kanzure> *tell)
19:55 < kanzure> the switch was sometime in March or April; I don't know if I remembered to document it
19:55 < fenn> survival of the sexiest - is hyperactivity sexy?
19:55 < kanzure> dunno
19:55 < kanzure> it's pretty neat to me, especially paired iwth hyperfocusing
19:55 < kanzure> *with
19:56 < fenn> <- drug hater
19:56 < kanzure> I don't know, fenn, the difference is rather staggering in me
19:57 < fenn> you have to make sure you're "aimed" in the right direction before you take it, or else you might go off on a week-long obsession about pokemon
19:58 < fenn> or at least that's my baseless speculation
19:59 < kanzure> to some extent that might be true
19:59 < kanzure> I was actually trying to think about the typical thoughts that I do think about
20:00 < Biopunk> from my days in that world I remember that it was good to have someone close by who was not on drugs who could point one in the right direction
20:00 < kanzure> for example, earlier today I was jotting out some massive handwritten notes to add to [[brainstate augmentation setup]] eventually
20:00 < kanzure> and I was trying to go through the same thoughts again,
20:00 < kanzure> but I couldn't actually do it, it all seemed rather depressing
20:00 < kanzure> I mean, ultimately I know it is *not* depressing, it's incredibly awesome
20:00 < kanzure> Biopunk: It's prescribed. It's not like that.
20:00 < fenn> the fact that you can't remember your thoughts is awesome?
20:00 < Biopunk> yeah i know
20:01 < kanzure> no, I refer to the concepts
20:01 < kanzure> it's the synthesis/picture/world-view that I am developing
20:01 < kanzure> (perhaps exhibited by [[roadmap]])
20:01 < fenn> oh, you're sick of yourself
20:01 < kanzure> hm?
20:01 < fenn> take a vacation :)
20:01 < kanzure> no, I'm fine, really
20:02 < kanzure> I was going to come up stairs to do something
20:02 < kanzure> but now I've ended up doing meta-talk with you
20:02 < kanzure> hm
20:02 < kanzure> ah, maybe I was going to work on http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/UT
20:02 < kanzure> for some reason my server crapped out on me, so I dumped some content on your wiki on [[ohshit]], fenn ... it was a spur of the moment thing, I was pressed for time
20:02 < kanzure> the server's been doing this recently, I need to fix it, but I can't quite track down the source of the problem
20:03 < fenn> heh that's fine
20:03 < kanzure> I'm pretty sure it's not internal, since the server always responds when I am within the network
20:03 < kanzure> fenn: did I tell you that I have come across some good money for a new computer setup?
20:04 < fenn> gratz
20:04 < fenn> did you steer your grandma in the right direction?
20:04 < kanzure> $2k. I'm planning on a 4 GB DDR2 RAM ($60) + at least one or two 500 GB SATA hdd internal ($90 ea), a RAID card, and a multimonitor card
20:04 < kanzure> I'll then go dumpster diving for a few monitors, I want to get up to five or six soon
20:05 < kanzure> no, I actually haven't talked to her about her textbook gift
20:05 < fenn> get a head-up display and chording keyboard
20:05 < kanzure> it'll depend on what I can do for the first year of classes
20:05 < kanzure> fenn: chording keyboards look awesome
20:05 < fenn> eh i guess
20:05 < fenn> better than nothing
20:05 < kanzure> the last woman I was close to had one
20:05 < fenn> O.o
20:05 < fenn> not a tranny?
20:05 < kanzure> nope
20:05 < kanzure> just blind :)
20:06 < fenn> aha
20:06 < kanzure> proprietary lockin, hehe
20:06 < fenn> why arent all blind people geniuses
20:06 < kanzure> Haldeman?
20:06 < kanzure> Holdeman? I didn't check the spelling
20:06 < kanzure> She was bright, in a way.
20:06 < Biopunk> but she couldn´t see it?
20:06 < kanzure> but ultimately tainted by proprietary lock in, and not just in terms of software on the device, but also memes and religion etc.
20:06 < kanzure> [how it ended might be a story for another time]
20:07 < kanzure> Biopunk: do *you* need to see the keyboard when you type?
20:07 < fenn> i do sometimes
20:07 < kanzure> heh
20:07 < fenn> only the weird keys though
20:07  * kanzure has keys with no letterings anymroe
20:07 < Biopunk> yes... t'was a joke.. 'bright'
20:07 < Biopunk> cool
20:07 < kanzure> anyway, it ended fairly terribly
20:08 < kanzure> this was late 2006
20:08 < kanzure> 70,000 words over IM and 600 emails within 2.5 months
20:08 < kanzure> [I didn't bother counting phone usage, or time otherwise spent]
20:08 < fenn> cults are the next big obstacle once we get a post-scarcity economy
20:08 < kanzure> how so?
20:08 < kanzure> hrm, I can go into my cancerous spiell
20:08 < kanzure> I have a few notes up in a log somewhere
20:08 < fenn> well, governments will totally be useless when people have what they want
20:09 < kanzure> okay, so cults
20:09 < kanzure> the problem is that these cults are going to be somewhat damaging
20:09 < kanzure> suppose we have a singularity society
20:09 < kanzure> where you can fork your habitat and go off on your own
20:09 < kanzure> the real problem is that the original forker might be ideologically constrained in some way or another
20:09 < kanzure> so every derivative work might in fact be 'tainted'
20:09 < kanzure> this is the same problem as cancer, as the combinatorial explosion,
20:09 < Biopunk> people want people to tell them what to do... evolution has built that in
20:09 < kanzure> as the reason why we need brainsynch [even though it won't entirely work ever [though I am optimistic]]
20:10 < fenn> no, people can change, especially once they've been isolated from influences that shaped the original philosophy/culture
20:10 < kanzure> Biopunk: uh?
20:10 < kanzure> fenn: I hope so :)
20:10 < fenn> i'm optimistic about that
20:10 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/chats/2007-12-08%20-%20cancer.html
20:10 < kanzure> Noah is a friend of David's (from CBA)
20:10 < Biopunk> look out for no one.. that sort of thing... most pepole will always want people to tell them what to do I think
20:11 < fenn> i like people telling me what to think sometimes
20:11 < Biopunk> 'look out for number one'... defend and faciliate for the guy in charge
20:11 < fenn> it's easy, comforting
20:11 < fenn> i have a good bullshit detector though
20:11 < Biopunk> yeah... that's exactly it
20:12 < kanzure> ' 
20:12 < kanzure> But the rate of growth of the noise is going to always be much faster than the rate of growth of any sort of "signal factory" that we can make. And even if we *could* make a signal factory, who's to say that when our dx overpowers the dx of the billions of other noise engines, that our own systems will not also be noise, unable to be stopped? Ater all, we identify noise via looking into our own internal meanings and interpretation
20:12 < kanzure> who's to say that when our dx overpowers the dx of the billions of other noise engines, that our own systems will not also be noise, unable to be stopped? Ater all, we identify noise via looking into our own internal meanings and interpretations, so is it truly to be our will to impose upon the rest of reality? Sounds cancerous, sickly, deadly.'
20:13 < kanzure> don't know where the cutoff is
20:13 < Biopunk> with religion.... it's like you never have to grow up... you can be 5 all your life... big daddy will always take care of things
20:13 < fenn> always is a strong word
20:13 < fenn> lasers overcome the noise problem
20:13 < fenn> and they're just tubes of hot gas
20:13 < kanzure> fenn: shine a laser in people's eyes and what happens?
20:13 < kanzure> subtlety is needed
20:13 < kanzure> much like your nudging that guy in the right direction
20:13 < kanzure> instead of an all out burst like I have been doing
20:13 < kanzure> like at OWW and ISDC2008
20:14 < kanzure> which only has a partially good reaction mostly because it's smart people on the other end
20:14 < kanzure> :)
20:14 < kanzure> but it could be better
20:14 < fenn> hm.. the problem with your emails is they aren't focused, they're all over the place and you dont bring it together
20:14 < kanzure> it's hard :(
20:14 < fenn> yep
20:14 < kanzure> but yes, I need to do that
20:14 < kanzure> > The Vild in _Neverness_ is a region of the Milky Way galaxy where
20:14 < kanzure> > stars are going supernova at an exponential rate. The heavens are
20:14 < kanzure> > literally diseased, sickened, poisoned. The main character, Mallory
20:14 < kanzure> > Ringess, pilot of the Order of the Mystical Mathematicians and Other
20:14 < kanzure> > Seekers of the Ineffable Flame, must fall across the galaxy as a beam
20:14 < kanzure> > of light in search of the source of the problem and to meet his
20:14 < kanzure> > destiny.
20:15 < kanzure> > And with that in mind, it is easy to call the internet poisoned.
20:15 < kanzure> > Automated spam bots flood the internet with linkfarms and other
20:15 < kanzure> > traps. The blognets are heavy with useless noise. Incorrect
20:15 < kanzure> > information floods not only hard drives but minds of users. Botnets
20:15 < kanzure> > storm the connections, denial of service attacks, etc. If an
20:15 < kanzure> > individual could transcend the bio in/out info limitations it would
20:15 < kanzure> > be possible to dive into both the noise and the signals all across
20:15 < kanzure> > the internet (indeed, all of reality) without worries.
20:15 < kanzure> even though it's quoted, that's actually me
20:16 < fenn> another way of identifying noise is checking for consistency
20:16 < kanzure> then the message is incomplete
20:16 < kanzure> well, not the message
20:16 < kanzure> the 'system on the other end' (the generator?)
20:16 < kanzure> according to Godel, that is.
20:19 < kanzure> Okay, enough philosophy. I was going to do something.
20:19 < kanzure> hm. recurse through [[UT]], or recurse through my designs for [[brainstate augmentation setup]]
20:20 < kanzure> or I can try to improve [[2008-05-18]], though I'm still questioning my ability to write well :)
20:20 < Biopunk> you write well... but you might want to use the occams razor
20:21 < kanzure> hm?
20:21 < kanzure> how would you apply it in this situation
20:21 < kanzure> v
20:21 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-05-18
20:22  * fenn just wants to point out that kanzure didnt write anything past 'manufacturing ecology'
20:23 < kanzure> fenn: yep
20:23 < kanzure> fenn: I should go place a link
20:23 < kanzure> done
20:24 < Biopunk> i think that's fine for it's intended audience
20:24 < kanzure> many people would disagree completely
20:24 < kanzure> it's not talking about how they can actually help out
20:24 < kanzure> it's not talking about how this could mean something to them personally
20:24 < kanzure> it's just a bunch of words in the end, no?
20:25 < Biopunk> yeah... but you know my thoughts on the h+ community
20:26  * kanzure added a quote to http://heybryan.org/ at the top
20:26 < Biopunk> it's in the same style i think
20:26 < kanzure> I need to change what Google shows up as my snippit when it turns up my website
20:26 < kanzure> right now it's just me saying "Hey, my name is Bryan Bishop, and I'm blah blah blah" and nobody gives a flying fuck
20:28 < fenn> bbl restauranting
20:28 < Biopunk> time for me to sleep
20:29 < Biopunk> cu
20:29 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h203n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit []
21:49 < kanzure> heh, 
21:49 < kanzure> call us the Singularity Acceleration Institute
22:36 -!- kanzur1 [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:38 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:45 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:27 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:48 -!- kanzur1 [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
23:55 -!- Vedestin [n=Vedestin@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]