--- Day changed Wed May 21 2008
00:03 < kanzure> http://www.experienceproject.com/
00:06 < kanzure> http://experienceproject.com/ - they are aggregatting 'experiences' that people write down and share anonymously
00:06 < kanzure> oops, ignore
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00:36 < kanzure> blog updates
00:36 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/
00:37  * fenn studiously ignores that link
00:39 < kanzure> probably a good idea
00:39 < kanzure> interface sucks
00:45 < kanzure> oh, fenn
00:45 < kanzure> I came up with an interesting way to uh, do the 'hook' for the article I was hoping to write
00:45 < kanzure> since I've not really felt that it was anywhere near 'right' for a wide audience
00:45 < kanzure> why not bring up something equivalent to the Manhatten Project as an analogy? the Manhatten Project is commonly held in public perception as a 'very massive, very awesome feat'
00:46 < kanzure> but it's also govt + funded + => nuketech / destruction, which isn't the point of anything related to skdb
00:49 < fenn> the _hy-u-o-_ook_-kuh_
00:49 < fenn> i think manhattan project has been flogged to death in these types of discussions, and not very appropriate either since it's a distributed, basically non-funded effort
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00:50 < fenn> above mispronunciation from 'cats cradle' courtesy of 13130 books collection
00:50 < fenn> having all the books you've ever read and more in a searchable format on your hard drive is awesome
00:51 < fenn> stupid pdf's
00:52 < kanzure> heh
00:52 < kanzure> some stupid pdfs are plaintext
00:53 < fenn> i had to use 'pdftotext' on this one, why can't they at least name all the commands similarly.. hrmph
00:55 < fenn> so, i've read about a million essays where some nerd is whining about how a concerted manhattan project in <insert project here> would change the world
00:55 < fenn> mostly space AI and anti-aging
00:56 < fenn> it's not that they're wrong, but obviously it's not the way to get funding
00:57 < kanzure> hrm
00:57 < kanzure> well, it's a social aggregation project
00:57 < kanzure> I don't know how to describe that.
00:58 < fenn> what's the intended audience?
00:58 < kanzure> maybe starting off with "This is completely new, there's nothing really like this, sorry -- tough, bite my ass." wouldn't be too bad?
00:58 < kanzure> well, there's the Sirius H+ magazine
00:58 < kanzure> for transhumanism, sort of, but I think Sirius has a broader context in mind than just transhumanism
00:58 < fenn> 'just transhumanism' eh
00:59 < kanzure> well, probably a magazine about tech updates and developments
00:59 < fenn> i'm not entirely sure it's a totally new idea, just a new way to look at it?
00:59 < kanzure> he doesn't seem like the type of guy to just dump a bunch of guys masturbating each other
00:59 < kanzure> if it's a new way, then what was the old way?
00:59 < fenn> expert system AI coded by some research institute
01:00 < kanzure> no, this isn't a spiell against ai though
01:00 < kanzure> is it?
01:00 < kanzure> I mean, it's easy to hate on ai :)
01:00 < fenn> eh? i dunno, it's an expert system
01:00 < kanzure> hah, a different type of expert system
01:00 < kanzure> where anybody becomes an expert [sort of]
01:00 < fenn> right
01:00 < kanzure> certification in the mail within 2 to 3 weeks?
01:01 < fenn> we could ordain people as popes
01:01 < fenn> pope of inflatable solar collectors
01:02 < fenn> pope of paper bicycles
01:02 < fenn> origami bicycle?
01:02 < kanzure> would origami bicycles be 
01:02 < kanzure> I don't even know how to ask this,
01:02 < fenn> i bet you could evolve one
01:03 < kanzure> evolvable origami ? what would the GA be like?
01:03 < fenn> a GA that folds paper
01:03 < fenn> origami strikes me a lot like protein folding
01:04 < kanzure> wouldn't paper have too much friction?
01:04 < fenn> not if it's, uh, low-friction paper!
01:04 < kanzure> heh
01:04 < fenn> sry for the tangent
01:04 < kanzure> right, well, 
01:05 < kanzure> too many ways to introduce it ...
01:05 < kanzure> oh
01:05 < fenn> how would beethoven do it..
01:05 < kanzure> I remember now, earlier today while watching The Empire Strikes Back, I realized that I might just have to say 'screw it' and just make it an announcement
01:06 < fenn> an announcement? like communist propaganda style?
01:06 < kanzure> and an announcement basically sucks, but you just say "HERE IS WHAT I AM DOING. What it can do, will do, is doing. Here's some historical background. You can help if you want, but whatever."
01:06 < fenn> ATTENTION ALL ABLE-MINDED HACKERS: YOUR COMRADES NEED YOU
01:06 < kanzure> ATTENTION ALL MINDHACKERS
01:06 < kanzure> wait
01:07 < kanzure> ATTENTION ALL ATTENTION-MINDHACKERS
01:07 < fenn> er.. i think we mostly need computer hackers at this point
01:07 < kanzure> now I'm confused
01:07 < kanzure> sure
01:07 < kanzure> okay, that's an interesting way of doing it, just a community recruitment announcement
01:07 < fenn> hmmm nah it sucks
01:07 < kanzure> why's that?
01:08 < fenn> it's boring
01:08 < kanzure> I mean, it's a social project, no?
01:09 < fenn> it would make it easier to fend off accusations of being communist, just be like "yeah, whatever man"
01:10 < kanzure> haha, communist :)
01:10 < kanzure> yes, we'll make everybody show up to work for 9 hours a day
01:10 < kanzure> and read a questionable news-source
01:10 < kanzure> hail hitler? other random memes to confabulate with communism, etc.
01:10 < kanzure> *Heil
01:11 < kanzure> now an introduction
01:11 < fenn> i like fernhout's "achieving a star-trek society"
01:11 < kanzure> there are accusations out there on the net about Star Trek being communist
01:11 < kanzure> even though they are post-scarcity, they still fly around in a monopolistic federation, that sort of thing
01:12 < kanzure> but perhaps that was the best that Star Trek could have done, considering
01:12 < fenn> we dont really see much of the federation society, just their military
01:12 < kanzure> the Rebel Alliance probably wouldn't have flied well on cable television
01:12  * kanzure is obviously a Rebel sympathizer.
01:12 < fenn> i think all you people are totally immature
01:12 < kanzure> hm?
01:13 < fenn> squabbling over a piece of dirt
01:13 < kanzure> what dirt?
01:13 < fenn> what are you rebelling against/for?
01:13 < kanzure> oh, I see
01:13 < kanzure> no, I mean their group -- they were just a group of people that assembled more or less randomly to do something they wanted to do
01:14 < fenn> is "Rebel Allance" something specific i dont know about?
01:14 < kanzure> in Star Wars, 
01:15 < kanzure> you have the Empire, and the Rebel Alliance, the make-shift team of what seems to be open source advocates ;-)
01:15 < fenn> "The Alliance to Restore the Republic (commonly known as the Rebel Alliance)"
01:15 < fenn> fuck that
01:15 < kanzure> yes, fuck *that*
01:15 < kanzure> but luckily that's not actually emphasized in the movies
01:16 < kanzure> off topic again
01:16 < fenn> unfortunately a real galactic empire would be a lot more sinister and harder to fight against
01:16 < fenn> not just flying around in airplanes
01:16 < kanzure> :)
01:16 < kanzure> especially since they have clone troops
01:16 < fenn> clones, hell, mind-control and nanotech, man
01:17 < kanzure> if you have a billion troopers per star system ready to be deployed within however long it takes to sling-shot around, 
01:17 < kanzure> well, nanotech wasn't assumed, although mindtech is an interesting alternative
01:17 < kanzure> I'm sure that would be via mass media
01:17 < kanzure> although if you have nanotech, why the hell have people
01:17 < kanzure> seriously, what are they doing for you ?
01:17 < fenn> well.. that would certainly make it harder for the rebellion now wouldnt it
01:17 < kanzure> you have all of these fantastic robots and automated machinery, lots of intelligence shackled up in places like the Maw, etc.
01:19 < fenn> vinge has these not-quite-nanotech distributed sensor networks called "localizers" that can measure your pulse, skin conduction, some EEG stuff, cameras, microphones. and basically do a continuous surveillance lie-detector test 
01:19 < fenn> it all seems quite near-term to me, whereas he was trying to play it off as some 5000 year in the future technology
01:20 < fenn> they're basically RFID tags on steroids
01:20 < kanzure> so an intro, do I want to go with something like (title: What's the community cooking?) and then something like 
01:20 < kanzure> "Since there aren't many good analogies or historical examples of what we're doing here (maybe we're uninformed), this is a community announcement for an open source, free, automated manufacturing project. That's a mouthful. Here's what we're talking about"
01:21 < kanzure> yep
01:21 < kanzure> I was in #wrongplanet the other day, and these kids are going stark-crazy about that sort of stuff
01:21 < fenn> replace "automated manufacturing" with "personal manufacturing"?
01:21 < kanzure> ooh, yes
01:21 < kanzure> not just RFID, but the tagging databases, where autists are required to be noted in
01:21 < kanzure> and so they fear that if there is a cure, the govt will force it upon them
01:21 < fenn> maybe do the personal computer revolution spiel
01:22 < kanzure> then what's the enabling platform ?
01:22 < kanzure> there's not a single enabling platform to be analogous to
01:22 < kanzure> "The computer is personal again -- much more personal." or something, heh
01:22 < kanzure> I guess it's still based on computers anyway
01:22 < kanzure> ah, okay
01:23 < kanzure> "The personal computer took the mainframe and put it on your desk, your pockets. And now for the rest of the industrial infrastructure."
01:23 < fenn> um, well, err.. read this http://fennetic.net/pub/emc/bfi/bfi-draft.txt
01:23 < kanzure> ^ see last line I wrote there
01:23 < kanzure> good?
01:23 < fenn> yeah
01:23 < fenn> cut "your pockets"
01:24 < fenn> that's a good tagline if any
01:24 < fenn> the bfi entry was limited to some pathetically small number of words
01:25 < fenn> i'd like to rewrite it and flesh out a lot
01:25 < fenn> but i'm lazy and stupid :(
01:27 < kanzure> oh, the personal fabrication spiell
01:27 < fenn> i dont really know how to convince a computer nerd that making stuff is cool
01:28 < kanzure> to most people all of these machines and processes are "very distant" as if another world away, and in truth they are, but it doesn't have to be that way
01:28 < kanzure> hm
01:28 < fenn> i mean how can you compete with "this best of all possible worlds"? (points around at the ether)
01:30 < fenn> heh leibniz
01:30 < kanzure> well, there is a way to compete with that
01:32 < kanzure> part of Leibniz's argument was that his optimism is no reason to become a sloth
01:32 < kanzure> suppose this: if this is in fact the best of all possible worlds, of all that could have been possible and has now become existent,
01:32 < kanzure> then what's left to optimize but the self ?
01:32 < kanzure> 'optimize' in the sense of optimism, not necessarily Vulcan-let's-be-robots :)
01:35 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html the Stallman link is still broken
01:36 < kanzure> Google has no "report a broken link" feature
01:36 < kanzure> hm. Henry Spencer is thanked on a Google page ?
01:36 < kanzure> guess I need to give Henry some more respect :)
01:36 < kanzure> he's already the internet's most prolific spacetech enthusiast, but I've only seen him in the context of his replies to my thoughts on spacetech development on the arocketry mailing list
01:37 < kanzure> he wrote regex?
01:39 < fenn> sorta, i know regex incorporates some stuff from earlier grammar notations
01:39 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/net.unix-wizards/msg/4dadd63a976019d7
01:40 < kanzure> "Starting this Thanksgiving I am going to write a complete 
01:40 < kanzure> Unix-compatible software system called GNU (for Gnu's Not Unix), and 
01:40 < kanzure> give it away free to everyone who can use it.  Contributions of time, 
01:40 < kanzure> money, programs and equipment are greatly needed."
01:40 < kanzure> seemed to work for him ...
01:40 < fenn> ah i see
01:41 < fenn> also notice that stallman had already written a very popular editor
01:41 < kanzure> emacs?
01:41 < fenn> ya
01:41 < kanzure> also, he had MIT credentials
01:41 < kanzure> not that it matters
01:41 < kanzure> but it put him at the right place at the right time, at least
01:42 < fenn> his MIT credentials did not matter much, he was a "technician" more or less... programmers didnt get _any_ respect in those days (except for among programmers but they all worked at big institutions so meh)
01:43 < fenn> so now you see where the meritocracy comes frmo
01:44 < kanzure> meritocracy
01:45 < kanzure> it'd be nice if I was more hostile
01:45 < kanzure> it'd be easy to do a quick writeup and show how a professor at some institution as failed re: personal fabrication
01:45 < kanzure> and say "this project deserves his place"
01:45 < kanzure> [avoiding the issue of tenure]
01:46 < fenn> hah
01:47 < fenn> just make sure my name isnt on it ;)
01:47 < fenn> tenure is such bull crap
01:48 < fenn> they only give tenure to narrow-minded people who agree with the status quo, so that when they get tenure they'll come up with crazy ideas that would normally get you kicked out? that doesnt make sense
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01:54 < fenn> egads "From 1983 to 2007 Spencer has posted over 34000 message to the sci.space.* newsgroups."
01:54 < fenn> that's an average of about 4 a day
02:01 < kanzure> Hi h2i.
02:01 < kanzure> oh, ybit.
02:01 < kanzure> there's another guy out there, Keith F. Loyd or something.
02:01 < kanzure> Ketih F. Lynch.
02:01 < kanzure> http://keithlynch.net/
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02:02 < kanzure> he's a bit of an oddball, but he's another prolific poster
02:09 < fenn> good advice: http://keithlynch.net/weight5.html
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07:23 < kanzure> http://www.kainic.com/search.htm $100 for 10 mg of kainic acid
07:24 < Vedestin> yeah, biochem stuff is really expensive
07:24 < Vedestin> friend of mine is doing his honours in biology
07:25 < Vedestin> cost him like $2000 in dye to do his experiments
07:26 < kanzure> http://neuromorphs.net/
07:26 < kanzure> hm
07:26 < kanzure> guess I'll have to make it myself
07:28 < kanzure> http://methpedia.org/ 
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07:32 < kanzure> https://wiki.brown.edu/
07:32 < kanzure> Huh.
07:32 < Vedestin> don't make meth
07:32 < Vedestin> the cops will raid you
07:34 < kanzure> http://wiki.case.edu/
07:34 < kanzure> http://wiki.wsu.edu/
07:34 < kanzure> http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo
07:36 < kanzure> heh, I'll subscribe to all of their recent-changes
07:38 < kanzure> http://wiserwiki.com/Main_Page
07:44 < kanzure> http://slork.stanford.edu/ Stanford Laptop Orchestra
07:46 < Vedestin> whose benefit is this for, kanzure?
07:46 < kanzure> Mine.
07:46 < Vedestin> this is your notepad?
07:46 < kanzure> Still trying to find some cheap kainate, or methods of synthesis.
07:46 < kanzure> Vedestin: hm?
07:47 < Vedestin> why are you posting all these wikis
07:47 < kanzure> I'm pointing out a trend in .edu universities obtaining wikis
07:47 < kanzure> this is something new :)
07:47 < kanzure> and it can be exploited to our benefit very easily
07:47 < kanzure> since wikis typically have an rss feed
07:48 < kanzure> http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/Product.vm/catalog/78050/a/z;jsessionid=DA97E651BC5C45D3A89A7A72C6779D30 kainate - 5 mg for $30 
07:48 < kanzure> hrm
07:49 < kanzure> http://www.nanocs.com/kainic_acid.htm 10 mg for $70
07:49 < kanzure> I wonder what it would take to purify it.
07:50 < kanzure> http://kainoids.com/Product.htm $6/mg
07:50 < Vedestin> you mean growing some of that algae, chucking it in a blender and extracting the kainate with some sort of solvent?
07:51 < kanzure> aha - http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:173275
07:51 < kanzure> yes
07:52 < kanzure> 'Domoic acid and its potent excitotoxic analogues glutamic acid and kainic acid, are synthesized by marine algae such as seaweed and phytoplankton. '
07:52 < kanzure> heh, I can do some growth tanks
07:52 < Vedestin> yeah, then what's the process for refining it?
07:52 < kanzure> "Development of rapid and sensitive high throughput pharmacologic assays for marine phycotoxins."
07:53 < kanzure> 'Synthesis of (−)-kainic acid using chiral lithium amides in an asymmetric dearomatizing cyclization'
07:53 < kanzure> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THR-45JYJND-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a1d43481bc28009aefc662d22536cb7f
07:53 < kanzure> one of the search results - http://www.curehunter.com/public/showTopPage.do - semantic 'cure hunter'
07:55 < kanzure> http://pubs.acs.org/cen/business/7810/7810bus3.html "Producers strive to bring kainic acid back on the market."
07:55 < kanzure> crap.
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19:20 < kanzure> uhh
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.sustainable.gatech.edu/research/initiatives.php 
19:20 < kanzure> "Expanding closed-loops"
19:29 < kanzure> http://www.fis.marc.gatech.edu/srff/samples/sample1.srff
19:32 < kanzure> National Electronics Manufacturing Initiative.
19:32 < kanzure> I find it kinda suck that gatech.edu is funding these things,
19:32 < kanzure> but oh well :)
19:32 < kanzure> very big names here.
20:24 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/000538.html Powered exoskeletons, Iron Man and transhumanism
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20:58 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Neurochem_kit -- so that we don't have to pay companies for neurotransmitters
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21:33 < JoeLlama> neato :)
21:34 < kanzure> Hi all.
21:34 < kanzure> So we can keep the neuro stuff in #neuroscience for the moment
21:34 < kramer3d> ok
21:34 < kanzure> but all the other stuff can go here ;-)
21:34 < kanzure> like the automated manufacturing tech
21:34  * kramer3d is eager to hear kanzure 's idears
21:35 < JoeLlama> I have done a lot of work on manufacturing equipment in my life.. I'm 49 so I'm kinda old :)
21:35 < kramer3d> ah!
21:35 < kramer3d> youre old O_O
21:35 < JoeLlama> old enough :)
21:35 < JoeLlama> mostly I work with amusement ride control systems now including hydraulics and pneumatic systems.
21:36 < JoeLlama> it's an aspie thing for me I think
21:36 < kanzure> oops, please excuse me
21:36 < kanzure> trying to multitask hehe
21:36 < kanzure> JoeLlama: ah, good
21:36 < kanzure> JoeLlama: http://heybryan.org/exp.html
21:36 < kanzure> if you don't understand it, please feel free to yell at me
21:36 < kanzure> basically if you know anything about debian you'll understand what I'm doing here
21:36 < kanzure> I'm doing it with all of my projects
21:37 < JoeLlama> wow you are a busy bee :) neat
21:37 < kramer3d> what in the hell
21:37 < JoeLlama> self-replicating machines
21:37 < JoeLlama> machiens to build machines
21:37 < kanzure> yes
21:38 < JoeLlama> cool :)
21:38 < JoeLlama> I'm mostly into ferris wheels and flume rides now.
21:38 < kanzure> it's a convergence of transhumanism, recursive self-improvement, future-tech, and building stuff
21:38 < JoeLlama> I guess that's because I'm older.
21:38 < JoeLlama> I like recursion
21:38 < kanzure> I'm writing an article at the moment for the inclusion in a magazine later this month or year, I'm not sure which
21:38 < kanzure> JoeLlama: I like recursion too.
21:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/recursion.html
21:38 < kanzure> unless you meant the document
21:39 < kanzure> which I like too, of course
21:39 < JoeLlama> no I do a lot of programming and recursion is your friend :) heh
21:39 < JoeLlama> Mostly into state machines and finite state automata
21:39 < JoeLlama> it's my thing
21:39 < kanzure> yes
21:39 < kanzure> I like CA too
21:39 < JoeLlama> cool :)
21:39 < kanzure> in fact, it's my summer project
21:39 < kramer3d> kanzure: what the hell ... im still on the first link
21:39 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/In_vitro_liquidwars
21:39 < kanzure> kramer3d: exp.html?
21:40 < kanzure> kramer3d: okay, I can explain it to you, if you can tell me what you think it might be
21:40 < JoeLlama> huh interesting
21:40 < kramer3d> ok
21:40 < JoeLlama> hopefully you won't blow apart and end up doing amusement ride engineering
21:40 < JoeLlama> :(
21:40 < JoeLlama> heh :)
21:40 < kanzure> JoeLlama: nothing wrong with amusement
21:40 < kanzure> even better when it's the ride engineering, sounds neat
21:41 < JoeLlama> no I'm attracting to spinny shiney flashy objects....  I love blinky lights :) heh
21:41 < JoeLlama> ah well...
21:42 < kanzure> so, kramer3d
21:42 < kramer3d> ya
21:42 < kanzure> basically the idea is kind of like linux
21:42 < JoeLlama> u r a b-z b
21:42 < kanzure> linux's community has distributions for operating systems
21:42 < kramer3d> mhmm
21:42 < kanzure> like http://debian.org/ or http://ubuntu.org/ or http://gentoo.org/ - pick any of them
21:42 < kanzure> according to Wikipedia, debian has an accumulative value of $10 billion
21:42 < kanzure> and this is mostly because of the social aggregation that they are doing under the hood
21:43 < kanzure> it's a completely free software project, you see
21:43 < kramer3d> ok
21:43 < kanzure> so the volunteers assemble 'packages' of software from the internet
21:43 < kanzure> and you download them with simple <apt-get install 'software name here'> and *that's it*, you're done :)
21:43 < kanzure> program installed :)
21:43 < kanzure> so, I'm doing the same thing with manufacturing, do-it-yourself / homebrew stuff, etc.
21:43 < kanzure> it's called SKDB
21:43 < kanzure> for 'socialized engineering knowledge database'
21:44 < kanzure> this is mostly because the problem of personal fabrication and diy isn't so much the engineering as the knowledge
21:44 < kanzure> most of the knowledge is locked up in proprietary systems and lots of dead guys
21:45 < kramer3d> ok
21:45 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/SKDB
21:45 < kanzure> http://oscomak.net/ for another introduction to the project (sort of) - it's basically the same project
21:45 < kanzure> so, fenn and I have been working on it
21:45 < kanzure> right now I still have to write up some documents and do some pythoning
21:46 < kanzure> but fenn has successfully demonstrated paper-folding through the system :)
21:46 < kanzure> the real first steps will be taken when we can wire up robotic arms that can make some more robotic arms
21:46 < kramer3d> ok
21:46 < kanzure> or when we can get others submitting semantic standards etc.
21:47 < JoeLlama> You certainly seem to have perseverative features kanzure...  You aren't an aspie?
21:47 < kanzure> I'm going to be dumping everything from my roadmap into this databse/repository, no doubt about it. http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap (of course, there's not a lot of datafiles here, anyway)
21:47 < kanzure> JoeLlama: Heh. :)
21:47 < kanzure> JoeLlama: http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html for an interesting take on autism spectrum disorders.
21:47 < JoeLlama> I dunno you seem to have similar features like I do
21:47 < JoeLlama> okee doke I look :)
21:47 < JoeLlama> I have my own ideas.
21:47 < kanzure> Apparently I'm ADHD, the H stands for hyperactive, but really also hyperfocusing and H+ (transhumanism ;-)
21:47 < kramer3d> so basically its self replicating machines via open source engineering ?
21:47 < JoeLlama> both a disorder AND evolution
21:48 < JoeLlama> I am also ADHD however asperger's trumps ADHD
21:48 < kanzure> But I'm pretty sure I have aspergers as well - some of the anxiety [which I selectively take advantage of], the obvious babbling, etc.
21:48 < kanzure> kramer3d: yes
21:48 < kramer3d> ok
21:48 < kanzure> kramer3d: but to get to the self-replicating part, we need lots of work beforehand :)
21:48 < JoeLlama> if you have asperger's you dont' have ADHD even though you have all symptoms of it....  but that's just teh DSM-IV which I take with a LARGE grain of salt.
21:48 < kramer3d> kanzure: let me tell you in concept it sounds very exciting :)
21:48 < kanzure> so that's why I'm supposed to be writing some papers. 
21:48 < kramer3d> i wish u good luck
21:48 < kanzure> kramer3d: :)
21:48 < JoeLlama> kanzure do you have hypergraphia too>
21:48 < JoeLlama> ?
21:49 < JoeLlama> I have hypergraphia and hyperblabbia
21:49 < JoeLlama> hypertypia :)
21:49 < kanzure> JoeLlama: No hypergraphia, although I seem to have hyperlexia/hyperbabblia. 
21:49 < kanzure> hypertypia, sure.
21:49 < kramer3d> kanzure: is your python stuffs open source?
21:49 < JoeLlama> you seen to type a lot kanzure
21:49 < kramer3d> cause id love to read some code :D
21:49 < JoeLlama> hypertypia is hypergraphia I think
21:49 < kanzure> kramer3d: yes, but it's nowhere near ready, it's just a few lines
21:49 < kanzure> hold on
21:49 < kramer3d> ok
21:49 < kanzure> JoeLlama: hypergraphia =~ synesthesia, right? The word highlighting.
21:50 < JoeLlama> kanzure writing, typing, and talking all seem to come from the same part of the brain so I don't consider a big difference between the three.
21:50 < kanzure> kramer3d: http://heybryan.org/docs/agx-get.py might be it
21:50 < JoeLlama> kanzure no
21:50 < JoeLlama> wiki hypergraphia
21:50 < JoeLlama> I also have hyperblabbia
21:50 < JoeLlama> It's how I live my life sometimes.
21:50 < JoeLlama> I mean, I talk regardless of the dangers sometimes.
21:50 < JoeLlama> I mean....
21:51 < JoeLlama> I talk to people and I seek people out specifically to talk to those people.
21:51 < JoeLlama> and sometimes.......
21:51 < JoeLlama> I get into trouble
21:51 < kanzure> Sure.
21:51 < kanzure> I mean, I've had my close calls too
21:51 < kanzure> A year ago I was in my first chem class. The class was discussing melting points.
21:51 < JoeLlama> But the benefits outweigh the possible (and probable) dissadvantages.
21:51 < kanzure> Somebody spoke up and asked "What's the melting point of a human?"
21:52 < kanzure> I saw the opportunity and ran with it: "What's the melting point ... OF A JEW?"
21:52 < JoeLlama> heh
21:52 < JoeLlama> oh
21:52 < kramer3d> hmm idle on mac sucks
21:52 < kanzure> that had to be one of the less good ideas I've had.
21:52 < JoeLlama> yeah that would be a bad thing to say in a neurotypical environment.
21:52 < JoeLlama> kanzure do you have anything against jews?
21:52 < kanzure> JoeLlama: luckily I am jewish (only because my mother is (only because her mother is (ad naseum)), so I got to call racial immunity or some bullshit like that
21:52 < kramer3d> lol
21:52 < kanzure> JoeLlama: nope, not at all
21:53 < JoeLlama> and yes, that was an incredable "foe pah" I dont' spell well.
21:53 < JoeLlama> ok good :)
21:53 < JoeLlama> you seem aspie to me...
21:53 < kanzure> JoeLlama: It was just something that had to be said, you see. Many of them were burned alive. :(
21:53 < JoeLlama> You seem ADHD and aspie which I can relate to I am that way.
21:53 < JoeLlama> I have symptoms of both (in spades)
21:53 < kanzure> yeah, actually my great grandfather on my mother's side (the jewish side) was aspie
21:53 < JoeLlama> I have learned a lot over the years to mimic behaviors.
21:54 < JoeLlama> and become what I need to be in this neurotypical world.
21:54 < kanzure> He died with Alzheimer's too, so I have that to look forward to. I'm the first male on that side of the family since him.
21:54 < JoeLlama> But I still make mistakes...
21:54 < JoeLlama> all the time.
21:54 < JoeLlama> kanzure I take preventative measures against alzheimers but not on direcdt purpose.
21:54 < kramer3d> kanzure: what do you plan on studying in undergrad?
21:54 < kanzure> The inattentiveness due to ADHD keeps me normal when I'm aimless etc.
21:55 < JoeLlama> Not that I won't get it....
21:55 < kanzure> kramer3d: Chemical engineering, http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/UT
21:55 < kanzure> kramer3d: but I might switch to something else
21:55 < JoeLlama> actually, I wish to prevent the type of death that my mother had.
21:55 < kanzure> UT doesn't let me pick my own classes
21:55 < kramer3d> kanzure: neat i reccomend EE
21:55 < kanzure> kramer3d: yeah, but nobody knows anything about EE anymore
21:55 < kramer3d> huh?
21:55 < JoeLlama> My mother basically her brain malfunctioned very badly
21:55 < kanzure> by this I mean that there's no connection down to subatomic particle physics with EM fields and so on
21:55 < JoeLlama> anyways....
21:55 < kanzure> so it's hard for me to understand
21:55 < kramer3d> kanzure: whats that supposed to mean?
21:55 < JoeLlama> kanzure lemme see if I can describe some of your features :)
21:56 < kanzure> kramer3d: There's no way for me to connect it to my understanding of QED, so it's hard to understand at times. Just seems kind of ridiculous. 
21:56 < kanzure> kramer3d: But I wouldn't be opposed to it.
21:56 < JoeLlama> kanzure are you intensely organized?
21:56 < kanzure> I mean, I've done digital electronics before :)
21:56 < kramer3d> kanzure: force yourself to learn it
21:56 < kanzure> JoeLlama: Hm. That depends.
21:56 < JoeLlama> I do digital electronics.
21:56 < kanzure> kramer3d: yes
21:56 < JoeLlama> Ah...
21:56 < kanzure> JoeLlama: Let's see.
21:56 < kanzure> physically, no
21:56 < kramer3d> i wish i could do double major neuro + engineering
21:56 < JoeLlama> kanzure depends on what it is?  I bet your file systems are well oroganized.
21:56 < kramer3d> but i just cant fit into my skedule
21:56 < kanzure> digitally, no, although I do hoard links into collections
21:56 < kanzure> JoeLlama: well, look at my bookmarks on my site
21:56 < kramer3d> maybe after undergrad i might do something
21:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/bookmarks-old2/ 
21:57 < JoeLlama> well I make sure I put my car keys in the same place each day so I know where they are... If I don't do that I will not find them immediatelly.
21:57 < kanzure> kramer3d: neuro + engineering would be awesome
21:57 < kanzure> kramer3d: I'd like to do computational neuroscience + mechanical engineering, or something like that.
21:57 < kramer3d> ya thats my ideal education
21:57 < JoeLlama> kanzure I an mostly NOT organized.
21:57 < kramer3d> but right now it looks like neuro + math
21:58 < kanzure> I have a list of the main classes in the engineering curriculum that I want to take - like the mechanical industrial stuff, the processes that are used in manufacturing, etc. But then the other stuff, like p-chem, I can learn on my own via reading the papers and mathematical models
21:58 < kanzure> JoeLlama: The majority of my ideas are scattered throughout 25+ megabytes of plaintext journaling logs, over the web ( http://google.com/search?q=kanzure ), and on hundreds of sheets of densely packed pieces of paper
21:58 < kanzure> I use blank, white printer paper (8.5x11) and write densely in black ink
21:59 < JoeLlama> I bet kanzure gets "hyperfocus" which he has periods of time where he get's so focused on a project that all time seem to slow down.  He might think it's 20 minutes yet it's been two or three hours.
21:59 < kanzure> I've been fitting 100 lines per sheet-side, and have a very large stack that admittedly I will never go through entirely :)
21:59 < kramer3d> anything requiring hands on stuff is what id take if i was u
21:59 < kramer3d> cause the rest u can learn on ur own especially maths
21:59 < kanzure> JoeLlama: sure, time dilation
21:59 < kramer3d> if youre dedicated that is :)
21:59 < JoeLlama> yes seems like time dilation
21:59 < JoeLlama> *grin*
22:00 < JoeLlama> someone might even say your name and you won't hear them... your focus isi so intense...
22:00 < kanzure> kramer3d: the [[UT]] link on the wiki there ... is evidence of dedication, methinks. I'm going through the entire friggin' curriculum before I show up for day one.
22:00 < JoeLlama> you mnight get three days of work done in a period of several hours.
22:00 < JoeLlama> That is a symptom of ADHD
22:00 < kanzure> yep
22:00 < kanzure> that's me, sure
22:00 < JoeLlama> of asperger's I'm not sure.
22:00 < JoeLlama> with some they have it.
22:00 < JoeLlama> asperger's is an autistic specturm disorder whereas ADD/ADHD is an affective spectrum disorder
22:01 < JoeLlama> but I've seen both in people (regardless of what the DSM-IV says)
22:01 < kanzure> here's what I was focusing on today - http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention
22:01 < kanzure> nah, ADHD is on the autism spectrum
22:01 < kramer3d> kanzure: my goal is to achieve whats already shown alot in sci fi films and that is cyborgs :)
22:01 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html talks about ADHD in relation to ASDs.
22:01 < JoeLlama> I think the only way to define asperger's is asperger's with or without ADD/ADHD
22:01 < JoeLlama> symptoms
22:01 < kanzure> kramer3d: yeah, cyborgorization is neat stuff sometimes.
22:02 < kanzure> kramer3d: Kevin Warwick and so on.
22:02 < JoeLlama> kanzure I will have to read it.
22:02 < kramer3d> i want a full understanding of brain so that i can hook up electronics to it and do whatever i want
22:02 < kanzure> kramer3d: yeah, you might be interested in http://www.innerspacefoundation.org/ - it has the 'first' cyborg (Kevin Warwick) and a few other guys sponsoring the IF Prize
22:02 < JoeLlama> You type a lot on many channels I think kanzure
22:02 < JoeLlama> you multitask it's what "floats your boat"
22:02 < kanzure> the Innerspace Foundation Prize -- it's a neurohacking competition
22:03 < kramer3d> kanzure: how well do you do in school? gpa  etc
22:04 < kramer3d> sorry if im being personal :P
22:04 < kanzure> kramer3d: I used to do near perfectly, until I realized I didn't care
22:04 < kramer3d> ok thats good
22:04 < kanzure> that's why everything is digitzed on my website
22:04 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/todo.html is back when I cared - it was my *total* todo list, day by day, minute by minute, I was an extremist, but also sort of delluded at the time hehe
22:04 < kramer3d> kanzure: i was same, like junior year i stopped giving a damn but that was due to personal reasons
22:04 < kramer3d> now i have realised i need to stop the lazyness :)
22:05 < kramer3d> #
22:05 < kramer3d>     * I need to write a ToDo List for going between houses.
22:05 < kanzure> well, the trick is to separate the laziness due to school versus the laziness due to personal issues
22:05 < kramer3d> LOL
22:05 < kanzure> kramer3d: yeah, be careful there
22:05 < kanzure> that's a rather personal document
22:05 < kanzure> I don't link to it on the web because of the content, really
22:06 < kramer3d> ok
22:14 < kanzure> Hm. we died out
22:14 < kanzure> I was going to do some other things tonight, I can't quite remember what
22:14 < kanzure> I was going to write a few emails, one pointing out the lack of criticism against Iron Man as a transhuman
22:15 < kanzure> and then another one on the lack of molecular science backing up 'basic physical fitness' propaganda
22:23 < kramer3d> kanzure: suppose i wanted to cut up like a bug 
22:23 < kramer3d> and put electrodes in it so it would control a little motor instead of moving its leg
22:23 < kramer3d> how can i get started 
22:23 < kramer3d> lol i just laughed 
22:23 < kramer3d> XD
22:23 < kramer3d> i cant believe i typed that but oh well
22:27 < kanzure> well,
22:27 < kanzure> we've talked about this on the mailing list before
22:27 < kanzure> or something close to it. Hm.
22:28 < kanzure> Anyway, the problem with cutting up a bug is that it's so small. You're not going to be able to easily wire up electrodes. And even if you could, do you have small electrodes on you? Probably not.
22:28 < kramer3d> :{
22:28 < kanzure> The smallest MEAs (microelectrode arrays) are maybe 1/10th the size of a quarter, and they have at least 10x10 arrays
22:28 < kanzure> so it's just kinda hard
22:28 < kramer3d> i can get some $4 mice from petco
22:28  * JoeLlama says, "moo"
22:28 < kanzure> but there was a setup where there was an MEA hooked up to a cockroach
22:28 < kramer3d> but thatd be cruel
22:28 < kanzure> so you might want to look at that
22:28 < kanzure> hah
22:28 < kramer3d> MEA?
22:29 < kanzure> yes, if you do animal research please know what you are doing
22:29 < kanzure> MEA = microelectrode array
22:29 < kramer3d> ya
22:29 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/docs/neuro/
22:29 < kramer3d> ok
22:45 < JoeLlama> moo
22:45 -!- JoeLlama [n=snork@unaffiliated/joellama] has quit ["Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything one learned in school --=Albert Einstein"]