--- Day changed Wed Sep 24 2008
00:00 < kanzure> wiki is terrible
00:00 < kanzure> it's in a fucking browser :)
00:00 < procto> right, exactly
00:00 < procto> the point is that a highschool students can put up a proof from their textbook
00:00 < procto> and all it takes is a thin client
00:00 < procto> the thinnest client
00:00 < fenn> dillo!
00:00 < ybit> procto: i thought it was interesting, but i was drifting to sleep and decided to look at it later
00:01 < ybit> vdash, that is
00:01 < kanzure> browsers are far from thin.
00:01 < kanzure> dillo, meh, perhaps :)
00:02 < kanzure> what's wrong with flat files and repositories?
00:02 < procto> the point is that people shouldn't have to bother with the verification process, storing things
00:02 < kanzure> does everyone think that just because their repo is in a mysqldb that it's magically better?
00:02 < procto> instead, some people just want to see a proof
00:02 < procto> some want to put up a proof
00:02 < procto> some want to improve the elegance of proofs
00:03 < kanzure> you're not designing a user experience, you're building mathematics .. 
00:03 < procto> with a big package locally, you have the ability to do all at once
00:03 < procto> of course a user experience is being designed
00:03 < procto> everything is user experience
00:03 < kanzure> uh, layer abstraction?
00:03 < procto> if a human interacts with it
00:03 < kanzure> sigh
00:04 < procto> as with electrical motors, "computers" will dissappear into the background of our lives very soon
00:04 < procto> in such cases it is often (though certainly not always) to keep many things remotely
00:05 < procto> maybe html files are "bulky" but you don't have to deal with that bulk. you're only dealing with 1 such file at a time.
00:05 < procto> you want to expose the simplest possible interface on top
00:05 < procto> and let the simplicity percolate down
00:05 < kanzure> excuse me, but yes I do have to deal with that bulk
00:05 < kanzure> frontends are not backends
00:06 < fenn> why is html bulky? it's just text, gzip gets rid of the tag bloat
00:07 < kanzure> why not just give me the specific information in a file for what you're serving me
00:07 < kanzure> i.e., look at the slides, you'll see the vdash theorem syntax apparently
00:07 < procto> ok... then you can
00:07 < kanzure> and for some reason intimiately tied into a wiki
00:07 < procto> the wiki is an "active" interface
00:07 < procto> oh no, it's not intimately tied
00:07 < kanzure> so now you're changing on me? :(
00:07 < procto> certainly not
00:08 < procto> you are now talking web services
00:08 < procto> and it sounds like you want REST
00:08 < procto> you can request state of file, and then update it with a new state
00:08 < kanzure> I'm not talking web services.
00:08 < kanzure> am I?
00:08 < procto> ok, "web services" is a very encumbered term
00:09 < procto> what I meant is merely a remotely exposed interface
00:09 < procto> a wiki is a particular way to interact with data
00:10 < procto> how about I coin a new "aphorism"
00:10 < procto> "The wiki is not the data"
00:11 < procto> So to rewind our conversation
00:12 < procto> <me> I think that a wiki is a very appropriate way to interact with this data based on the model of user participation that is likely and desireable
00:12 < kanzure> there was really only 'yay' at first
00:16 < kanzure> http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/XML.jsp <-- Java apache server. Fails to load when you select all data .. blah.
00:16 < kanzure> oh wait, got it
00:36 < kanzure> 10095.
00:42 < kanzure> http://function.device.mst.edu/repositoryEntry/repository.termsXML
00:42 < kanzure> Not a good idea.
00:54 < kanzure> http://function.device.mst.edu/delabsite/people.html why don't I get to be an 'undergrad student extraordinaire' ? :p
01:37 < kanzure> heh, 
01:37 < kanzure> 'fringe' is interesting
01:37 < kanzure> Dr. Bishop hid himself a magnetic cranial stimulator in his wall in '73
02:11 < kanzure> Hm.
02:12 < kanzure> February. Demolition of the water cleaning facility here in Austin.
02:12 < kanzure> That's worth a driveby.
02:23 < kanzure> "Email Ballot Procedures.doc" 
02:23 < kanzure> wtf wtf
02:24 < kanzure> God these people are stupid.
02:25 < kanzure> "Last year, many soldiers over seas didn't get their ballots in time, so this time we're sending it to them by email. They must give a signature and it must be sent from a dot mil email address"
02:25 < kanzure> everybody know how to fake MIME types, right?
02:25 < kanzure> can anybody explain to me why these people are allowed to breath?
02:53 < kanzure> http://instantrimshot.com/
02:53 < kanzure> follow-up: http://sadtrombone.com/
02:58 < kanzure> You know what, I think I'm starting to see Eric's point about the lack of community support built bottom up into the Maker communities.
02:58 < kanzure> I'm increasingly seeing people who "have their most brilliant idea", and all they need is for you to answer that one last final technical question, which of course isn't really the case.
02:58 < kanzure> But the approach that these folks are using .. might work a few times, maybe once or twice, but it's twisted.
02:58 < kanzure> blah.
02:59 < kanzure> convivial is an example of this.
03:04 < fenn> what is "convivial"?
03:05 < kanzure> #biology troll
03:05 < kanzure> he comes in talking about how he's going to cure cancer with nanotech
03:05 < kanzure> and of course, I'm all ears and willing to help, knowing me
03:06 < kanzure> but he doesn't seem to have any conceptual understanding of just about anything
03:06 < kanzure> so it's .. interesting..
03:06 < fenn> the only "Maker community" i know of is based on a subscription magazine
03:07 < kanzure> apparently there's the blog reading community too
03:07 < kanzure> and apparently these people tinker with 'stuff' and are quite presumptuous about what they have on hands
03:07 < kanzure> erm
03:07 < kanzure> anyway.
03:09  * fenn mumbles something about peoplescapitalism.org
03:11 < kanzure> first page seems to have a few confusions of names of political movements
03:12 < kanzure> hm, what's with the bad art? it's like a poor man's version of adciv.org
03:14 < kanzure> "
03:14 < kanzure> A second, even more important feature, of cost reductions in manufacturing is that they are regenerative. For example, if the cost of a machine tool is reduced, then the cost of another machine tool produced by the less expensive tool will be less expensive still."
03:14 < kanzure> reverse dependency argument
03:16 < fenn> what i find interesting is that this book was written by the inventor of the cable hexapod
03:16 < kanzure> "The revolutionary feature of this process is that it feeds on itself. Less expensive machinery makes the production of new machinery less expensive. When automatic factories begin to manufacture automatic factories, cost reductions will propagate exponentially from generation to generation."
03:16 < kanzure> "The introduction of computers into the manufacturing process thus has the potential for increasing productivity on a scale never before conceivable. Eventually the cost of finished manufactured goods may fall to only slightly above the cost of unprocessed raw materials. U this ever occurs, the expense of production will become virtually independent of the complexity of the manufacturing processes."
03:18 < kanzure> 'Japan, for example, has already committed more than one-quarter billion dollars to research and development in computer-aided manufacturing and robot technology.33 Current Japanese plans call for the construction of a prototype automatic factory for the manufacture of machine tools to be completed by 1980. This plant is of a size that would ordinarily employ 700 to 800 workers, but will require only 10 persons to operate.34'
03:18 < kanzure> huh, has refs
03:18 < fenn> the fabled fanuc "robot room"
03:20 < kanzure> hah, the counter is n = 000093.
03:20 < fenn> it was 62 when i looked at it
03:21 < fenn> that is one wacky counter
03:22 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20040714175954/http://www.jamesalbus.org/
03:22 < fenn> i wonder why 16GB IDE SSD is $70 but same thing in SATA is $400
03:25 < kanzure> james.albus@nist.gov
03:25 < kanzure> hrm
03:27 < fenn> intelligent systems division/manufacturing engineering lab are who originally wrote EMC
03:28 < kanzure> wtf we have the christian conversion channel feeding into the dorm
03:28 < fenn> i'm not sure how much code he wrote, but a lot of it is based on papers he wrote
03:29 < kanzure> guess I should send out an email linking him over to his sympathizers
03:29 < fenn> adciv.org?
03:29 < kanzure> us?
03:29 < kanzure> oscomak?
03:29 < fenn> oh heh
03:29 < kanzure> p2pfoundation.net also has some links to stuff
03:29 < kanzure> also, marshall had something yes?
03:29 < kanzure> hrm, I don't remember everybody
03:30 < kanzure> oh, freedomofscience too.
03:30 < percent> fuckin scientists
03:30 < fenn> yeah, but it seemed more philosophical even though i know marshall is very technically knowledgeable
03:30 < percent> always hangin out on that INTERNET of yours
03:30 < fenn> ARPANET
03:30 < percent> DONT YOU CURSE AT ME
03:30 < fenn> i mean, uh, FENNET
03:30 < percent> I HANG OUT ON INTELLIPEDIA
03:30 < percent> BECAUSE I AM A FED
03:31 < percent> Heh, you have to be crazy, though, to fuck with .mil...
03:31 < fenn> crazy enough to fuck with a federal election
03:32 < percent> I wonder who the craziest person in this channel is.
03:32 < kanzure> why would you possibly do voting by email though
03:32 < percent> And whether the answer is the same as it always is, in every channel I go to.
03:32 < fenn> i think we're all pretty normal
03:33 < percent> I'm very normal, yes.
03:34 < fenn> kanzure: did you read the thing about open source vote-by-cellphone
03:35 < percent> I'm all for "vote by gunfire"
03:35 < percent> you have a rifle and you shoot at your ballot 50 yards away
03:35 < percent> 50 holes in each box to register a vote
03:36 < fenn> i was thinking "shouldnt it be the other way around?"
03:36 < fenn> shoot at the guy you dont want to be elected
03:36 < percent> but then he dies
03:36 < fenn> not if he has enough people around him
03:41 < kanzure> vote by cellphone too now?
03:45 < fenn> so, i can get a 64GB SSD for the low low price of $5000
03:45 < kanzure> also: how do you go about protecting from spam in a FOAF situation?
03:45 < fenn> use FOAF to make a trust network
03:46 < percent> how about you go install Hardened Gentoo
03:46 < fenn> what's all this hardened crap
03:46 < kanzure> you left it out to dry
03:46 < kanzure> isn't there a debian hardy?
03:47 < kanzure> or is that gentoo?
03:47 < fenn> that's ubuntu.. it's supposed to be a reliable long term release
03:47 < fenn> poxy selinux
03:58 -!- kanzure_ is now known as superautomation
03:58 < fenn> bets on how long it will take for the word superautomation to get coopted
03:59 < kanzure> by who? /me doesn't understand
04:00 < fenn> oh i dunno, ford or microsoft
04:01 < fenn> siemens fanuc allen-bradley
04:01 < kanzure> big business summit in 2009 by ford, microsoft, toyota, other big names, supposedly about infrastructure cruft
04:01 < fenn> pff
04:01 < fenn> they need a good carpet bombing, that's what
04:01 < kanzure> http://enews.thomasnet.com/ct.jsp?uz3763235Biz7343948
04:02 < ybit> "Substitute salmon sperm for tomato.  Chinese salmon." ..eh?
04:03 < kanzure> http://www.mlive.com/kzgazette/news/index.ssf/2008/09/ford_motor_co_and_dow_chemical.html
04:03 < kanzure> 'A national convention in the works for next year on the future of manufacturing, technology, energy and the environment could help fuel a broad plan to overcome industrial and economic upheavals affecting the entire country, the leaders of two global companies said Monday.'
04:03 < ybit> was that a correction, he meant to say chinese salmon sperm?
04:03 < ybit> not sure why it has to be chinese
04:04 < ybit> this is in the diybio mailing list
04:04 < fenn> are there salmon in china?
04:04 < ybit> "stocking up on nucleotides"
04:04 < ybit> kanzure, do you know? you replied
04:05 < kanzure> salmon? What?
04:05 < kanzure> I replied to the nucleotides stuff.
04:05 < kanzure> not to any fish
04:06 < fenn> Salmon sperm is considered a waste product of the fishing industry. It's thrown away by the ton
04:10 < fenn> i'm thinking of a belt of AA batt's, like an ammo belt you put around your waist
04:11 < kanzure> for what?
04:11 < fenn> for my wearable computer
04:11 < kanzure> the biggest issues is the mountable display and keyboard or equally useful interface
04:11 < fenn> yes, i'm working on the keyboard right now
04:12 < kanzure> conceptually?
04:12 < fenn> no i'm trying to figure out how to solder to these pesky flexible circuits
04:12 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0826.JPG
04:13 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0824.JPG
04:14 < kanzure> oh, your split kb arrived?
04:14 < fenn> might just scrap the flex stuff and make my own PCB and read the switches with an AVR
04:14 < fenn> yeah it got here today.. twelve days later
04:15 < kanzure> can you type effectively on it?
04:15 < fenn> i think it needs some grease or something
04:15 < kanzure> but it fits the hands?
04:16 < fenn> the split is confusing too, since i've never used an ergo keyboard before
04:16 < fenn> i often cross over to type t, y, b, n, etc
04:16 < kanzure> right
04:16 < kanzure> that's typical.
04:16 < fenn> hard to tell how fast i can really type though since i have no way of connecting it
04:17 < kanzure> it's not usb?
04:17 < fenn> no, it's IrDA with some whack protocol
04:18 < fenn> my laptop with IrDA isn't feeling too happy
04:19 < fenn> so my ideal setup would have battery belt, microoptical display, SSD under left kb, ts-7800 under right kb
04:20 < kanzure> microoptical? ts7800?
04:20 < kanzure> oh, ts 7800 is an embeddable
04:20 < kanzure> hm
04:20 < kanzure> do you remember the old 1990s style visors?
04:21 < kanzure> would be good for mounting an old cell phone lcd.
04:22 < fenn> aw crap i havent been logging
04:22 < fenn> brb
04:26 < fenn> LCD's are crap
04:26 < kanzure> alternatives?
04:26 < kanzure> Paul got back to me
04:27 < kanzure> "Jame Albus. I think I met him once at NIST in the 1980s (he was friendly with a professor I knew and we went on a trip to see the manufacturing and automation lab), not sure exactly."
04:27 < fenn> microoptical (discontinued apparently) http://www.eyesentials.com/main_images/microoptical-eyeglasses-500x324.jpg http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/images/product_hmd_microoptical_eg7.jpg
04:27 < fenn> i dont know how it works or any specs
04:27 < fenn> then there's various mems mirrors strategies
04:27 < kanzure> uh
04:28 < kanzure> that's a little bit much for the moment, what about just settling for some good head mounting gear
04:28 < fenn> the oled displays i've seen had much higher resolution and brightness
04:28 < fenn> i dont want full screen video, i want unobtrusive terminal
04:29 < kanzure> that's fine.
04:29 < kanzure> you remember the "private eye" link?
04:29 < fenn> yes, that would be just fine
04:29 < fenn> kinda ugly though :P
04:31 < kanzure> http://dvice.com/archives/2007/07/dataglass_headmounted_video_di.php
04:32 < kanzure> is that the same girl from the other image from a while back?
04:32 < fenn> heh no
04:33 < fenn> requirement is i must be able to go through grocery checkout line without getting any questions
04:36 < kanzure> sorry, but I might have to go for the duck tape + sacrifice one half of a pair of glasses method
04:37 < fenn> this is quite interesting, even just as a source of parts: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3747065&CatId=927
04:37 < fenn> and linux drivers for everything!
04:42 < kanzure> http://www.shimadzu.co.jp/hmd/dg-a.html
04:44 < fenn> hmm i was misled.. it doesnt have a solid state disk
04:45 < fenn> very shadowrun, but it fails the grocery store test
04:46 < fenn> oh christ they made a shadowrun video game.. nevermind
04:48 < marainein> what exactly does it have to have in   terms of peripherals?
04:48 < fenn> does what have to have?
04:49 < marainein> are we just talking about a head mounted display?
04:49 < fenn> i like ts-7800 because it's extremely low power, has a PCI fpga onboard, and linux drivers for everything
04:49 < fenn> no, the whole kit
04:51 < marainein> what are we talking about exactly?
04:52 < fenn> a wearable computer
04:53 < marainein> that's what i thought
04:53 < fenn> this started because kanzure was talking about mounting a big arm to his back to hold a keyboard in front of him
04:53 < marainein> what does it need to do that a smartphone can't?
04:53 < fenn> not suck
04:53 < kanzure> fenn: bah, you and I have talked about wearables since the beginning
04:53 < fenn> kanzure: yes but my current obsession started with that
04:54 < marainein> can you define the nature of the suckage that concerns you?
04:54 < kanzure> you really think a smartphone is a wearable?
04:54 < fenn> marainein: cellphones are highly proprietary, unhackable, have crappy UI, and the UI sucks :P
04:54 < marainein> openmoko?
04:54 < kanzure> well
04:54 < kanzure> think abotu it
04:55 < fenn> glorified LCD screen
04:55 < kanzure> first, it's not quite a wearable
04:55 < kanzure> fine, add the head mounted mic and be done
04:55 < kanzure> there's also a few other issues though
04:55 < kanzure> like needing a real, actual keyboard
04:55 < fenn> yes, i want a real keyboard
04:55 < kanzure> and if you're going to all of this trouble
04:55 < kanzure> it becomes easier to just do it from scratch
04:55 < bkero> There are some keyboard alternatives out there.
04:55 < fenn> i dont want a keyboard alternative dammit
04:55 < kanzure> :)
04:55 < bkero> Then do what I do and carry around a model M.
04:55 < marainein> http://www.neopwn.com/
04:55  * kanzure carries a Model M too
04:56 < fenn> i like the dell oem keyboards
04:56 < kanzure> some of the dells are good
04:56 < marainein> a large keyboard or input device is always going to be clumsy
04:56 < bkero> I'm typing to you on one.  It's shit. :/
04:56 < kanzure> some are shit
04:56 < kanzure> marainein: you're lying
04:56 < bkero> This is one of the ones who's bottom(part towards you) curves around a big space bar
04:56 < kanzure> it's not clumsy if you can mount it correctly
04:56 < bkero> Model RT7D50
04:56 < marainein> how?
04:56 < kanzure> bkero: neopwn? Nobody needs penning ..
04:57 < fenn> i have five of these.. they're lightweight and work beautifully.. kinda large though: http://www.pctipstricks.com/pictures/Dell-Vostro-400-Keyboard-and-Mouse.jpg
04:57 < bkero> kanzure: saw it before
04:57 < kanzure> bkero: You linked me to it above.
04:57 < kanzure> oh
04:57 < kanzure> marainein linked me to it :)
04:57 < marainein> :P
04:57 < bkero> My keyboard was made in 1984.  It's BARELY PS/2.
04:57 < bkero> It weighs close to 5lbs and has a spring for each key.
04:57 < marainein> one of those clicky ibm keyboards?
04:58 < bkero> Yes, that's exactly what it is.
04:58 < kanzure> Best thing ever.
04:58 < bkero> I can use(and have) used it as a blunt weapon.
04:58 < bkero> It was my first keyboard.  It came on a Compaq 486.
04:59 < bkero> It's a symbol of all that is manly and good in this world.
04:59 < kanzure> 12000
05:00 < marainein> ok, so what is the non-clumsy way to mount a keyboard?
05:01 < kanzure> split it, mount on legs.
05:01 < fenn> i'm attempting to make a proof of concept
05:02 < fenn> since apparently there aren't any out there (at least not in my meager searching)
05:02 < bkero> See cowboy bebop movie
05:02 < fenn> (but weird stuff like this always costs too much anyway)
05:02 < bkero> Split keyboards are around $50
05:02 < fenn> hmm i had that but deleted it on accident
05:02 < kanzure> bkero: fenn has found himself a split kb
05:02 < fenn> for $20 shipped :D
05:03 < bkero> Nice
05:03 < fenn> not all split kb's are split correctly though
05:04 < fenn> i never understood what people liked about the clicky ibm keyboards
05:04 < fenn> reminds me of middle school library
05:04 < kanzure> it seems to be speed
05:04 < kanzure> the difference between me on a bad keyboard and me on a model m is vast
05:05 < marainein> feedback...the tube amplifier of computer peripherals...
05:05 < kanzure> feedback is just what they keep parroting
05:05 < bkero> It's tactile response.
05:05 < kanzure> we can give you a keyboard that punches you in the face
05:05 < kanzure> how's that for tactile response
05:05 < kanzure> hehe
05:05 < kanzure> "parse error! *punch*"
05:05  * bkero will remain polite. ;)
05:06 < kanzure> why?
05:06 < kanzure> Anyway, I need to sleep. 
05:06 < bkero> The keys literally have a different feel to the keypresses than newer cell-membrane based keyboards.
05:06 < kanzure> Sure.
05:06 < bkero> They feel mushy. :/
05:07 < kanzure> re: http://repository.designengineeringlab.org/ can anybody fetch the XML output of all of the objects? The server seems to crash a few threads when I attempt this. I was trying to get this data so that I can see how I might add a layer of turtle soup to the whole thing.
05:09 < fenn> how do you get XML?
05:10 < kanzure> link at the top => design tools
05:10 < kanzure> then select all items with the giant button
05:10 < kanzure> you'll see checkboxes , the last one says XML next to it or something
05:10 < fenn> ok
05:11 < fenn> lots of javascrap
05:11 < kanzure> bonus points for telling me why
05:11 < kanzure> also bonus bonus points for why they are using a java backend
05:11 < bkero> Because they hired some stupid kid fresh out of college who only knows java.
05:12 < kanzure> How many kids fresh out know about Apache tomcat?
05:14 < bkero> It's related to java
05:35 < percent> Awesome, remember my crazy paranoid gentoo box?
05:35 < percent> Now it has PaX and grsecurity on it.
05:36 < percent> We are going from paranoid to eka-paranoid. 
06:41 -!- Phreedom is now known as xxxxxxxxx
06:41 -!- xxxxxxxxx is now known as p1tbull
09:44 < bkero> PaX and grsec are great security precautions.
09:44 < bkero> RBAC is without equal
12:37 < kanzure> http://goertzel.org/agiq.pdf
12:38 < kanzure> goertzel sometimes has random flashes of insight, so that might be worth opening
12:38 < kanzure> might not be .. still loading.
12:41 < nsh> goertzel seems to 'get it' better than most
15:18 < yb-s> oi
16:43 < kanzure_> chat tonight in #opencog with goertzel
16:46 < kanzure_> nsh: #opencog goertzel chat tonight
16:46 < kanzure_> since you just joined after I mentioned it
16:46 < kanzure_> design repo server still crashes upon export all
16:46 < kanzure_> I'm not entirely sure where they are trying to hide the data.
16:46 < nsh> ty
16:47 < kanzure_> nsh: were you the one who did the shootings last night?
16:47 < nsh> hoard is the default setting for stupid
16:47 < nsh> nah
16:47 < nsh> the wounded (inc. suspect) came to our hospital though
16:47 < nsh> police escort to the ambulence convoy
16:47 < nsh> to keep reporters out
16:48 < kanzure_> 'our' as in, city, university, .. ?
16:48 < kanzure_> sometimes they have these university hospitals, you see
16:49 < kanzure_> and you might be working in a biology lab right next to one, I'd guess
16:53 < nsh> as in, where i work
16:53 < nsh> yeah
16:54 < kanzure_> neat.
16:55 < nsh> hmm
16:55  * nsh listening to UCB lectures
16:55 < nsh> http://www.learnoutloud.com/Podcast-Directory/Science/Biology/General-Biochemistry-and-Molecular-Biology-Podcast/19711
16:56 < nsh> apparantly their textbook is available online too
16:56 < nsh> which is good
16:56 < nsh> (the textbook of the course, probably not published by berkley)
16:57 < nsh> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=mboc4.TOC&depth=2 apparantly
16:59 < kanzure_> ah, right, I remember a few of the books hosted on ncbi
17:00 < kanzure_> "?Landolt-B?rnstein (La-Bo), which is claimed to be the largest compilation of data in physics and chemistry, will celebrate its 125th anniversary on September 29, 2008. On this occasion, Rainer Poerschke, who has been in charge of La-Bo since 1990, will hand over his post toKarin Sora. Published by STM publisher Springer, La-Bo is seen to have played a decisive role in defining the publishing company's scientific path"
17:01 < kanzure_> "Analogous to if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound is the closely related 'if information is so costly that virtually no one can access it, is it still information?"
17:02 < nsh> heh
17:02 < nsh> source/
17:02 < nsh> ?
17:05 < kanzure_> CHMINF-L mailing list
17:05 < kanzure_> lots of chemistry librarians sitting around asking each other for obscure papers and databases etc.
17:06 < nsh> right
17:12 < kanzure_> blah, these guys don't answer their phones
17:13 < kanzure_> http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2008/09/mechanical_generation.php 
17:13 < kanzure_> yay more reprap lies
17:14 < nsh> hmm
17:15 < kanzure_> wtf, since when did ##sl4 move to freenode?
17:18 < kanzure_> that's rather annoying.
17:19 < nsh> how?
17:19 < kanzure_> anywho, to keep track of: #opencog, ##sl4, #ai, #psychology, #diybio, #namcub, #open-rtms, and a few others that I'm temporarily forgetting
17:19 < kanzure_> well, you think you know a channel
17:19 < kanzure_> and you sit on it for a year
17:19 < kanzure_> and then it moves on you without telling you
17:19 < kanzure_> Eliezer and friends used to duke it out on lucifer's servers
17:20 < nsh> mm
17:22 < nsh> i wonder..
17:23 < nsh> self-replicating machines in fluid
17:23 < nsh> fluidic replicators
17:23 < nsh> would be interesting
17:23 < kanzure_> everybody has their random idea to share.
17:23 < kanzure_> erm, sorr
17:23  * nsh smiles
17:23 < kanzure_> sorry
17:24 < kanzure_> just getting grumpy about the situation of random proposals from multiple ends
17:24 < kanzure_> and it's not at all coherent the way that people spontaneously propose a new product, machine, setup, or experiment
17:24 < kanzure_> anyway,
17:24 < kanzure_> fluidic *bubble* replicators with lipids have been studied a bit
17:25 < kanzure_> emulsions thrown into the mix of elements in those experiments, I might add.
17:25 < nsh> hmm
17:25 < kanzure_> self-assembling monolayers grafted on to emulsions or bubbles in liquid
17:26 < kanzure_> I really forget the reference on this .. it wasn't quite as, ah, modular as it may sound.
17:26 < kanzure_> anyway, I need to split some atoms and leave
17:26 < nsh> i was thinking a bit more abstract: creating a fluid-dynamic regieme which, when given a source of driving energy, would be able to perpetuate it
17:26 < nsh> *itself 
17:27 < nsh> and create the conditions external to itself for another instance of itself to organise
17:28  * nsh gotta shoot too
20:23 < superautomation> Hm. Laptop is frozen.
20:31 < superautomation> Hm.
20:31 < superautomation> fenn: turns out both Joseph and Paul have already met Albus
21:24 < fenn> http://www.jetbeetle.com/
23:20 < ybit> kind of OT, but what do you all think about presidential elections? on this matter, http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/4312 is an interesting article
23:27 < kanzure> fenn: neat find.
23:27 < fenn> he certainly has enough toys to make it work
23:29 < kanzure> Based in Taiwain :-)
23:31 < kanzure> so that immortality channel on ustream.tv
23:31 < kanzure> those guys are jerks.
23:31 < kanzure> "let's fold proteins! yay advancement of science!"
23:31 < kanzure> "if you're not folding, you're a douche"
23:32  * ybit agrees with kanzure
23:32 < ybit> i hate how they push that
23:32 < kanzure> do they even understand how to use the protein folding information for their goals?
23:32 < kanzure> my guess is not
23:32  * ybit usually tunes out for a few mins during that time
23:32 < kanzure> (I asked.)
23:33 < ybit> heh
23:33 < ybit> response?
23:33 < kanzure> "if you're not with us, you're against us"
23:34 < ybit> eek
23:34 < ybit> oi biopunk
23:34 < kanzure> the sw comic torrent finished earlier today :)
23:34 < kanzure> 478 unread emails. oh noes.
23:35 < kanzure> up to 17621. 
23:36 < kanzure> I suspect most of the time being spent now is randomly switching to an unused IP
23:36 < kanzure> as would be expected for the majority of the latter portions of the dataset download
23:43 < fenn> if you ran two tor servers would you get twice as many ip's?
23:46 < kanzure> on the same box?
23:46 < kanzure> 'The IEEE Computer Society is hosting a talk by Ryan W. Smith of MIT Lincoln Labs on Thursday, September 25th.  Ryan, a UT alumnus, will be talking about Lincoln Labs and his current projects including ShellShock, a framework for luring malware into virtual honeypots using emulated response.  He will also be collecting resumes for open positions. '
23:46 < kanzure> hrm, Lincoln Labs sounds unfamiliar
23:50 < fenn> lincoln was the old computer center back when they were room-sized
23:50 < kanzure> http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=329
23:52 < kanzure> uh, how do I check for what's stealing my audio device at the moment?
23:52 < kanzure> lsmod?
23:52 < kanzure> modprobe.
23:52 < fenn> fuser /dev/dsp
23:52 < kanzure> nothing
23:52 < fenn> hm. well it never works anyway :P
23:52 < kanzure> then why .. um. 
23:54 < kanzure> it was quite literally playing music a moment ago
23:54 < kanzure> but then it switched songs and the audio device was stolen by something
23:54 < kanzure> I'm not running anything out of the ordinary
23:54 < kanzure> except evince.
23:56 < kanzure> oh, random note. apparently there's a grant I can apply for within the next, uh, day or so, that might pay me to go up to the singularity summit or convergence08 conferences. I'm not sure I want to go, I'm sure I'd just be annoyed.
23:57 < fenn> what grant is that?