--- Day changed Sat Sep 27 2008
00:31 < kanzure> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=957787&l=61ea0&id=644717755 <-- Where Eric Hunting is hiding out these days.
00:44 < kanzure> hrm, isabelle's birthday tomorrow
00:44 < kanzure> which one of you knows her? is it willPow3r?
00:46 < kanzure> monroe phoned me
01:35 < ybit> http://electro.mthn.net:8400 -- electronic music, nonstop for the past 2 hours
01:36  * ybit likey
01:46 < kanzure> hrm
01:47 < kanzure> I need to add that to http://heybryan.org/music2/internet/
01:47 < kanzure> or maybe it's http://heybryan.org/music2/radio/
01:48 < kanzure> ybit: I'll listen soon, I'm (for some reason?) watching presidential debates
01:48 < kanzure> it's somewhat entertaining to see how the candidates ignore each other
01:48 < fenn> primate psychology
01:50 < kanzure> yes, monkeys are entertaining, it's true
01:51 < ybit> :)
01:52 < fenn> politician's job is to fool us into thinking he's a good "leader" which is derived from evolutionary pack behavior
01:52 < fenn> but 99% of the actual work they are supposed to do is an optimization algorithm
01:53 < kanzure> in what sense?
01:53 < fenn> so that's why there are massive "cabinets" etc
01:53 < kanzure> optimization of vetoing?
01:53 < kanzure> right, compartmentalized specialists
01:55 < ybit> if anyone is listening to the radio station now, uh, it's playing some cheesy early 90s (too sexy for my body) type music o.O
01:55 < fenn> is that a good thing?
01:55 < ybit> haha, not at all
01:55 < ybit> it was a matrix-like rhythm playing for a good while
01:56  * ybit loads the matrix soundtracks
02:02 < fenn> woah.. (garlic + leek)-aftertaste + vanilla ice-cream = super weird
02:46 < ybit> hmm
02:47 < ybit> apparently the guy i met on campus runs plan 9 and has 5-7 servers and is a commodore diehard with 4 amigas
02:48 < ybit> invited him to this channel
02:49 < ybit> runs plan 9 on his mail/web server*
02:51 < ybit> and this http://www.evilshare.com/4857fb58-dd8f-102b-bdf3-0007e90cfb90 was one of his recent assignments
02:51 < ybit> just for everyone's info
02:51 < kanzure> what is it?
02:51 < kanzure> teh page is not really loading for me
02:52 < ybit> "modeling immune response to HIV with chemotherapy treatment"
02:52 < fenn> is there a reason you chose such an obnoxious file sharing site?
02:53 < ybit> heh
02:53 < ybit> any better ones?
02:53 < kanzure> uh
02:53 < kanzure> what happened to you have a server right next to you?
02:53 < ybit> it's still right next to me
02:53 < ybit> on the groud
02:53 < ybit> dying
02:53 < kanzure> bah
02:53 < ybit> i'm still unsure what the problem is :|
02:54 < fenn> death is no excuse!
02:54 < ybit> :P
02:55 < kanzure> tis merely a flesh wound!
02:56 < kanzure> bah, shouted.fm doesn't display the current track title
02:57 < ybit> http://www.mediafire.com/?0d9xmbwydlw -- that might be better
02:58 < ybit> come back! i'll bite your legs off!
02:58 < kanzure> and why can't you use your current machine?
02:58 < fenn> wants to inject spy cookies into my browser - hah!
02:59 < ybit> kanzure: because openvz isn't installed
03:00 < fenn> for future reference http://filebin.ca/ is non-hostile
03:00 < ybit> ah, now that's much more sane
03:01 < kanzure> a *-bin? huh.
03:01 < fenn> it almost reminds you of the time when data was data
03:01 < kanzure> but then stabs you in the eye? 
03:01 < ybit> :)
03:02 < kanzure> oh, it doesn't
03:03 < ybit> fenn, kanzure, you do use virtualization for your servers, right?
03:03 < kanzure> vmware and bochs and such?
03:03 < kanzure> No.
03:03 < fenn> no
03:04 < ybit> huh
03:05 < fenn> openvz is neat but it reminds me too much of work
03:05 < kanzure> just through up an *ftpd
03:05 < kanzure> oh
03:05 < kanzure> nevermind, it's fenn and not ybit
03:06 < fenn> DCC
03:06 < fenn> uuencode and paste in channel
03:06 < kanzure> Heh.
03:07 < fenn> three hours later and i _still_ dont know the beagleboard dimensions
03:09 < ybit> alright
03:10 < ybit> ctl-q is inconvenient
03:11 < ybit> was saying that, kanzure, dcc sent you the file because i thought you were the only one having problems with the file upload site
03:11 < ybit> anywho
03:12 < kanzure> oh, i got it then.
03:15 < ybit> that time konversation crashed
03:15 < ybit> heh, so yeah.. i'll think about not using virtualization
03:15 < ybit> hmm, i need to get some work done. bbl
03:16 < wrldpc2> later ybit
03:22 < kanzure> so, if I wanted to represent HTML as a graph, obviously a hierarchical tree, how would I store that data? should I just do a bruteforce array to associate an ID to a type of HTML element ?
03:22 < kanzure> sounds hackish.
03:23 < kanzure> grr
03:23 < kanzure> so, if I wanted to represent HTML as a graph, obviously a hierarchical tree, how would I store that data? should I just do a bruteforce array to associate an ID to a type of HTML element ?
03:23 < kanzure> sounds hackish.
03:28 < spookact> not exactly sure what you mean, but why not just store it as a tree? or did you need mean to serialize it?
03:30 < spookact> ^re: kanzure
03:30 < kanzure> mean to serialize it, correct
03:33  * kanzure listens to http://heybryan.org/music2/Gundam%200083%20-%2002%20-%20OP2%20-%20Men%20of%20Destiny.mp3 (stupid %20's)
03:33 < kanzure> fenn__ tell us when you're alive again.
04:15 < fenn__> well this is annoying.. my wireless seems to have gone totally kaput
04:16 -!- fenn__ is now known as fenn
04:29 < fenn> gosh thanks to bert and helen the Openmanufacturing list has become even less technically oriented than it was before
04:29 < kanzure> uh oh
04:29  * kanzure checks
04:30 < fenn> i'm still catching up from 9/25
04:30 < kanzure> oh
04:41 -!- Depucelator changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: Country First
04:41 < kanzure> What the fuck?
04:41 -!- Depucelator changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/
04:42 < Depucelator> Is it okay if I add more pipe characters though
04:42 < kanzure> ?
04:42 < Depucelator> to the MOTD
05:39 < gene> what? why country first?
05:39 < gene> are we getting political here?
05:48 < fenn> nobody knows
05:50 < Depucelator> What my opponent doesn't understand is that doubling the number of pipe characters would make the economy thrive
05:52 < fenn> one line of unix shell is worth a thousand lines of java
05:52 < Depucelator> agrd
05:52 < gene> what are world pipe characters?
05:53 < fenn> gene, i'm curious, what did you do during your adolescence?
05:53 < gene> why are you curious?
05:53 < percent> I mostly masturbated
05:53 < percent> why
05:53  * fenn struggles to find a non-offensive way to say this
05:54 < gene> I built things
05:54 < gene> that's what I did
05:54 < fenn> what did you build?
05:55 < gene> lot's of things
05:55 < gene> why do you want to know this anyway?
05:55 < fenn> ok, i'll start: i made an arc welder out of a microwave transformer, a paintball gun from a squirt gun and pipe fittings, a remote control car with weapons on it
05:57 < gene> I made a pneumatic air cannon, [redacted], and lot's of other small things like gliders with a wingspan of about 5 mm
05:58 < fenn> pipe characters are these things: |||||| they are used to pipe the output from one command to the input of another, like cat foo | grep -v bar > foo.bar
05:58 < Depucelator> it seems a common thread in history's brightest minds was that they weaponized toy cars at an early age
05:58 < Depucelator> why is it called a pipe character
05:58 < fenn> tesla used a toy ship, does that count?
05:58 < gene> let's just say that redacted might have got me in trouble with the FAA
05:58 < fenn> heh
05:59 < fenn> i assume it has something to do with guided explosives delivery systems
05:59 < gene> nope
05:59 < gene> but close to something else that is also redacted
06:00 < gene> so percent, can you turn on and off electrospinning fairly fast?
06:00 < percent> Yes.
06:00 < gene> like how fast?
06:00 < gene> seconds, milliseconds, nanoseconds?
06:00 < percent> Well
06:01 < percent> Seeing as how he particles come out of the needle at percentages of the speed of light
06:01 < percent> probably fairly fast
06:01 < gene> are you kidding me?
06:01 < percent> you're dealing with high voltage, not high current
06:01 < fenn> small percentages
06:01 < percent> You've heard of electrospray, right?
06:01 < percent> still
06:01 < percent> it's fast as fuck
06:01 < gene> 10^-1000?
06:01 < percent> so
06:01 < fenn> it doesn't give off x-rays
06:01 < gene> damn
06:02 < percent> it's fast enough not to be a problem
06:02 < percent> modulated electrospinning
06:02 < percent> now that's an idea
06:02 < fenn> indeed
06:02 < gene> how fast?
06:02 < percent> audio modulated
06:02 < percent> Shit
06:02 < percent> I don't know
06:02 < percent> Nobody's ever done that shit before
06:02 < percent> fuck
06:02 < gene> that would be fucking awesome
06:02 < percent> the fuck am i, a scientist or some shit
06:02 < percent> christ
06:02 < percent> i am
06:02 < percent> how'd that happen
06:03 < gene> materials science?
06:03 < fenn> you can't bounce fiber off a mirror like with lasers, unfortunately
06:03 < percent> Yes.
06:03 < percent> well
06:03 < percent> the overwhelming,omni-topic of ALL THINGS NANO
06:03 < percent> I seem to work a lot in CVD though
06:03 < gene> could you accelerate the fiber to like 99% the speed of light?
06:03 < fenn> "nano" means a lot of stuff these days
06:04 < percent> by nano, i mean 10^-9
06:04  * fenn just read about some "nano" folding bicycle
06:04 < gene> nano, really really small shit
06:04 < percent> also, gene: Well, I've got this large hadron collider...
06:04 < gene> I highly doubt they could accelerate the fiber
06:04 < fenn> 99% the speed of light would just make a nice explosion
06:05 < fenn> shower of gamma rays
06:05 < fenn> probably some exotic particle physics stuff
06:05 < gene> a nice explosion?
06:05 < percent> Also, you definitely wouldn't get any fiber
06:05 < percent> you'd ionize your shit fuckin fast
06:05 < percent> just
06:05 < percent> boom
06:06 < gene> if you could get it fast enough you could aim it at an alien civilization and eliminate it
06:07 < fenn> assuming your nanofiber piece weighs nm*nm*20nm*1g/cc = 2e-20, the resulting explosion would contain 1.79 microjoules
06:07 < fenn> wait, wrong formula
06:08 < gene> if you have a nanofiber many kilometers long  
06:08 < gene> then you might get  something a bit more epic
06:08 < fenn> but it won't all hit at once
06:08 < marainein> would it scatter?
06:09 < fenn> unless you got fancy with varying the speed somehow.. hrm
06:09 < gene> guess you're right
06:09 < gene> but's it's going too fast to matter
06:09  * fenn liked the modulated beam idea better
06:10 < gene> so you can modulate electrospinning at audio frequencies?
06:10 < gene> do you need an accurate pump for electrospinning?
06:13 < fenn> looked like you dont need a pump at all, just a pipette and let gravity do the work
06:13 < gene> nah
06:13 < fenn> what's the pump for?
06:14 < gene> pumping out a precise amount of liquid
06:15 < gene> so you make nanofibers with small diameters
06:17 < gene> like 8 nm
06:35  * fenn spends too much time on writing perfect emails
09:38 < ybit> http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=106981
09:45 < fenn> gosh singularity summit has a lot of Big Names
09:50  * nsh curses Eliezer for no particular reason
09:52 < fenn> get over it
09:52 < fenn> what have you been up to lately nsh?
10:11 < nsh> experiencing the man-woman level of projective identification at transferance
10:11 < nsh> folding paper
10:12 < nsh> thinking about electron dynamics and geometry
10:13 < nsh> dna sequencing, cloning, pcr, gel electrophoresis, and some marginal bioinformatics
10:14 < nsh> listening to down-tempo music
10:16 < nsh> reading about the development of marxist theory in post-war japan
10:17 < nsh> obsessively-masochistically reading about the presidential election campaigns
10:18 < nsh> et tu?
10:58 < fenn> mostly moping, and obsessing about wearable computers
10:58 < fenn> slowly making my way through jef raskin's website
10:59 < fenn> just spent 3 hours going through the last two weeks of openmanufacturing
14:31 < kanzure> fenn: it took you 3 hours to go through openmanufacturing? really?
15:54 < kanzure> do'h. serialization of an html tree would be, clearly, the stupid fscking HTML tree itself. 
15:55 < kanzure> written out in html, no less.
15:55 < kanzure> but I need to manipulate it in terms of a graph. ah.
16:01 < kanzure> http://search.cpan.org/~azs/Graph-ModularDecomposition-0.13/ModularDecomposition.pm wants me to use "ab,cd" format to represent a->b and c->d  in a graph.
16:01 < kanzure> typical perl.
16:03 < kanzure> isn't that stupid? am I supposed to keep a hash of alphanumeric titles to real variables or something?
16:04 < kanzure> http://search.cpan.org/~jhi/Graph-0.84/lib/Graph.pod would make me think they know what they're doing
16:05 < kanzure> and yet, the ModularDecomposition is supposedly an extension, yet demands a string-based input format, wtf?
16:22 < kanzure> http://9819.jp/ for exit trance
16:22 < kanzure> aha
16:22 < kanzure> https://zip-fm.co.jp/
18:15 < kanzure> http://public.resource.org/
18:15 < kanzure> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/27/BAAH134FI4.DTL
18:16 < kanzure> I wonder if this means there's a copy of uspto.
18:17 < kanzure> http://public.resource.org/uspto.gov/index.html
18:18 < kanzure> Somebody needs to put this back on wikileaks where it belogns.
18:19 < kanzure> http://www.pat2pdf.org/
18:22 < kanzure> 40920. Seems to be 6 minute lags between downloads now. How weird.
20:44 < kanzure> 2 hours to go 100? Guh.
20:44 < kanzure> fenn was right, I should have been doing this doubly on two boxen
20:44 < kanzure> although this slowness is probably because many of the tor IP's are useless now
20:45 < kanzure> so randomly going through them on 2+ boxes would only make the problem worse, right? 
20:48 < kanzure> hm, privoxy is doing 80% of cpu usage in top
20:50 < kanzure> okay, reboot of privoxy at 41807 around this time. top no longer says 80% usage by privoxy .. so it must have some threading leaks or something.
20:52 < kanzure> so, sometime in early 2007 I met Joram Zutt, a netherlander talking about building his 'bazaar model' and 'Project C', a microwave-oven-sized atom holography-based fabricator; so after we talked we kept in contact,
20:53 < kanzure> he sends these emails every so often, maybe once every three months, and at first it was awkard and kind of annoying
20:53 < kanzure> because he was ranting about these strange predictions of a world financial crisis
20:53 < kanzure> how the world bank was involved and such.
20:54 < kanzure> so, yeah, that's not awkward at all.
21:02 < kanzure> http://datamob.org/ <- I should probably upload to here some day.
21:41 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/rules.zip Can anybody make sense of these grxml files? 
21:41 < kanzure> They are supposed to be for 'rules' on transformations to graphs. So, supposedly the contents contain "given this, do that", but when I look, it's questionable as to what's what and whether it's actually doing that.
21:42 < kanzure> oops
21:42 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/rules/rules.zip
21:43 < kanzure> oh
21:43 < kanzure> L and R must represent left and right, before and after the transformation
21:43 < kanzure> makes sense.
21:51 < kanzure> routeRule3.grxml for instance. What's going on here? In the left hand side, you would be led to believe that the labels ("a") are being used to keep things internally consistent;
21:51 < kanzure> however, on the righth and side, there are /two/ nodes with the label 'a'
21:52 < kanzure> I'm trying to figure out how the program is keeping it all separated. I mean, on the left hand side and the right hand side the only thing that's different is connectivity. So, it has to keep track of the nodes and keep them the same, so what is it doing?
21:52 < kanzure> it could just be cheating and assuming that both sides are in the same order
21:52 < kanzure> can anybody confirm?
23:20 < fenn> kanzure: " it took you 3 hours to go through openmanufacturing? really?" there were 135 messages, some of them quite lengthy, and i wrote three responses (well two really)
23:20 < kanzure> 135. hrm.
23:21 < fenn> i did actually read all of them because i think the people there are intelligent and highly relevant to my life
23:21 < fenn> sometimes it's hard to figure out what cravens is trying to say though :)
23:32 < kanzure> kind of like me I guess.
23:32 < kanzure> there was actually a good Nathan email
23:33 < kanzure> the one that I replied to with the thing about compiler errors
23:33 < kanzure> "so that your world doesn't encroach on my world" sort of thing.