--- Day changed Sun Oct 05 2008
00:02  * fenn smells something vaguely like food
00:33 < bkero> It's your own searing flesh. ;)
00:49 -!- gene is now known as turtlesalltheway
00:51 < fenn> probably my cornea. too much informational radiation
01:00 < turtlesalltheway> fenn grow a new one i a petri dish
01:00 < turtlesalltheway> this is a biohacking forum
01:01 < turtlesalltheway> so extract some cells from your eye and put em in nutrient dish
01:03 < fenn> i did that with a chicken once
01:03 < fenn> can't say as though it meant anything
01:22 < superturtle> I still think it could work with 'abandoning ship' from time to time.
01:22 < superturtle> you can't make everybody leave the titanic, but at least the ones who do won't die
01:23 < superturtle> (well, they at least have a chance of not dying)
01:23  * superturtle still doesn't understand why it's commonly held that everybody who remained on the titanic died. It's not like you can't just float off of the top of the deck like everybody else who jumped into lifeboats .. (ignoring the freezing water -- people could carry each other and such)
01:26 < facefaceface> superturtle, wasn't there some crazy undertow?
01:26 < facefaceface> the lead ship dragging a column of water down with it?
01:26 < superturtle> huh
01:26 < facefaceface> growing eyes eh?
01:27 < facefaceface> that really reminds me of 'biohacking' - if we go over to biometrics, its isn't too much effort for someone to clone your eye
01:27 < superturtle> tissue engineering is still somewhat an issue. I haven't entirely figured that out.
01:27 < facefaceface> s/clone/grow from a skin tissue using a matrix/
01:28 < facefaceface> yeah, but in the next 5 years it'll be a doddle
01:28 < facefaceface> superturtle, you working on this?
01:28 -!- superturtle is now known as kanzure_
01:28 < kanzure_> yes
01:28 < facefaceface> have you seen the 'artificial bladder' stuff that exists?
01:28 < kanzure_> Yes.
01:28 < kanzure_> Last one I saw was a 3D sphere with cells printed all over it.
01:28 < facefaceface> btw, it wont work for biohacking, identical twins don't have the same eye scan.
01:29 < facefaceface> OK
01:29 < facefaceface> the neat thing is the recreation of the laminar structure
01:29 < facefaceface> great for studying cancer invasion
01:29 < facefaceface> how do they feed that thing btw?
01:29 < procto> as far as biometric security, its security ceiling is really quite low
01:30 < kanzure_> I thought it was only a thin layer of cells, so just dip it in a nutrient medium, no?
01:30 < kanzure_> not dip, sorry -- keep in
01:30 < facefaceface> kanzure_, and I guess you've seen the 'support matrix' stuff for shaping organs extra... what is a fancy word for body?
01:30 < facefaceface> ectopically?
01:30 < kanzure_> Morphology?
01:30 < procto> until we introduce you don't need to clone an eye, just cut it out of the person
01:30 < facefaceface> extramorphically
01:30 < procto> the only way to fix biometrics is create system where it's hard to find out whose eye needs to be cut out
01:30 < facefaceface> procto, cloning is more 'sci-fi'
01:31 < procto> heh, sule
01:31 < kanzure_> PCR?
01:31 < kanzure_> PCR is scifi?
01:31 < facefaceface> kanzure_, the model I saw had several layers of the bladder on a support 
01:31 < procto> sure*
01:31 < kanzure_> Yeah, something like that.
01:31  * procto has no idea what you're talking about ,btw
01:31 < kanzure_> I don't either.
01:31 < kanzure_> I think we're talking about scaffolds for organ growth.
01:32 < facefaceface> biohacking in the 'strict' sense
01:32 < facefaceface> did you read that paper about identification from a DNA using SNPs?
01:32 < procto> hacking using biology?
01:33 < facefaceface> you can take a DNA sample from a crime scene, and using SNPs generate a highly significant match to an individual, even if their DNA contributes only 100th of the sample
01:33 < facefaceface> this puts people at the scene of a crime. 
01:33 < facefaceface> now for the KGB / CIA / MI5 this is a problem.
01:33 < procto> facefaceface: can you link to that paper?
01:33 < facefaceface> can't have hard evidence of spys ... lemmy look
01:34 < kanzure_> Hm. Come to think of it, there's no protocol for SNP analysis in the biohacking toolkit facefaceface. Would you be so kind as to find and add something into the repository?
01:34 < facefaceface> so the spy in question wears a DNA-cologne, made up of primers designed to 'subvert' the standard forensic DNA amplification protocol
01:34 < kanzure_> heh
01:34 < facefaceface> now that's hacking ;-)
01:36 < facefaceface> procto, http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1000167
01:36 < facefaceface> kanzure_, all I know are the 'genotyping chips' from affy
01:37 < kanzure_> affymatrix?
01:37 < facefaceface> yeah, or 'naffy' as a person from illumina called them
01:37 < facefaceface> kanzure_, there is a bunch of stuff about identifying SNPs from next gen...
01:38 < kanzure_> in vitro embryo selection?
01:38 < facefaceface> kanzure_, I'll send you a booklet you might be interested in... I't 'll have some usefull links
01:38 < facefaceface> ?
01:39 < facefaceface> please let me know if you can read that PDF
01:39 < facefaceface> (the one in your email)
01:39 < facefaceface> someone told me that it was 'corupted'
01:39 < kanzure_> blah, why can't I launch xpdf from this machine on my other machine
01:39 < kanzure_> okay
01:39 < kanzure_> I'll look (eventually)
01:40 < facefaceface> kanzure_, I'll hopefully get recordings of the lectures to go with that booklet.
01:40 < facefaceface> right now I am off to bed. (sorry for avoiding your BioHacking request).
01:40 < facefaceface> night
01:40 < kanzure_> http://mebeam.com/DIYBio
01:41 < turtlesalltheway> you can't clone an eye
01:41 < turtlesalltheway> but you can grow a new cornea
01:42 < turtlesalltheway> however you have to take a chunk of cornea out
02:13 < percent_> what's up, FAGS
02:24 < turtlesalltheway> not much man
02:27 < turtlesalltheway> we need to be thinking simpler
02:28 < kanzure_> ?
02:28 < turtlesalltheway> in other words
02:28 < turtlesalltheway> instead of nuts and bolts
02:29 < turtlesalltheway> we need things that interlock like puzzle pieces
02:29 < kanzure_> nuts and bolts are like puzzle pieces.
02:29 < turtlesalltheway> yeah
02:29 < turtlesalltheway> but they are hard puzzle pieces
02:30 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.25.4.htm
02:30 < turtlesalltheway> something along the lines of that
02:30 < turtlesalltheway> it vastly simplifies assembly
02:30 < turtlesalltheway> no need for jigs, machine vision, or fancy stuff like that
02:32 < turtlesalltheway> see figure 3.80
02:33 < turtlesalltheway> it's an interesting method for universal circuitry
02:34 < kanzure_> I am still not convinced that ad-hoc design will generate a self-replicating design.
02:36 < kanzure_> So far it hasn't worked for anything else .. and besides, increasingly more functional integration might be the method, requiring a systematic recompilation method anyway.
02:36 < kanzure_> not random fandom of patents ..
02:38 < percent_> hey FAGS
02:39 < percent_> what are you up to besides being GAY
02:39 < percent_> does anyone her like NANOWIRES, because you're all GAY
02:39 < percent_> kanzure: I don't like your idea of brute-forcing or genetic-algorithming the solution to a replicator
02:39 < percent_> I think it's GAY
02:39 < percent_> like YOU
02:39 < percent_> hey gene you FAG
02:40 < percent_> everyone in here is GAY
02:40 < percent_> i'm sure you'll fit right in
02:40 < gene> except for me
02:40 < percent_> no you're also gay
02:40 < gene> orly?
02:42 -!- gene is now known as turtlesalltheway
02:45 < turtlesalltheway> guess everyone left
02:46 < turtlesalltheway> so kanzure, do you think you can automatically design 3d interlocking pieces
02:46 < kanzure_> Sounds feasible. 
02:46 < turtlesalltheway> excellent
02:46 < kanzure_> How many cuts on the interlocks?
02:47 < turtlesalltheway> and see how well they stick to each other
02:47 < kanzure_> Stick?
02:47 < turtlesalltheway> as in, you push two part together and they stick together
02:47 < turtlesalltheway> like lego bricks
02:47 < turtlesalltheway> except better
02:48 < kanzure_> I'm not familiar with the mechanical characteristics of stickage.
02:48 < turtlesalltheway> pieces interlock and stay interlocked
02:49 < kanzure_> That doesn't help.
02:50 < kanzure_> It's easy to have a 3D block of material and algorithmically cut it up into different pieces so that there are little inserters and little receptors for the inserters or something, but that doesn't tell me whether or not a hunk of metal of it will 'interlock'.
02:52 < turtlesalltheway> well it's easy to make interlocking pieces in 2d
02:52 < kanzure_> Do you mean interlock in the same way that a flimsy 2D puzzle does?
02:52 < turtlesalltheway> no
02:53 < turtlesalltheway> I am having trouble putting my concept into words
02:53 < turtlesalltheway> so I have a program on my calculator
02:53 < kanzure_> In the case of a screw interlocking with a block of metal, I suspect there's some variables like rotational tension or something going into it.
02:53 < kanzure_> You'll get better at it.
02:54 < turtlesalltheway> so what it does is draw a random connecting pattern
02:54 < kanzure_> Does that guarantee that they interlock?
02:54 < turtlesalltheway> it does this by moving a "pen" across the screen
02:54 < turtlesalltheway> when the pen hits the bottom of the screen
02:54 < kanzure_> Don't bother with that - the algorithm for drawing it is easy.
02:54 < turtlesalltheway> it moves to the top of the screen
02:55 < turtlesalltheway> when it moves to the left of the screen
02:55 < turtlesalltheway> it moves to the right of the screen
02:55 < turtlesalltheway> do you see what I mean now?
02:56 < kanzure_> See what? You've only described the property of when x=x_max, x is reset to zero. That doesn't tell me how to guarantee that a part 'interlocks'.
02:57 < turtlesalltheway> this program moves a pen over the surface in a defined pattern
03:00 < turtlesalltheway> do you have a ti-83 or above calculator?
03:00 < kanzure_> Fine, make a linked list where each object in the list is a vector expressing magnitude and direction. Then you just randomly generate variables within confines that don't allow them to intersect each other, and close the object at some point. Then you do an inverse or some function like that to generate the complement of that shape. 
03:00 < kanzure_> Does that guarantee the characteristic of interlocking, though?
03:02 < turtlesalltheway> maybe
03:02 < turtlesalltheway> why not deform a cube?
03:03 < kanzure_> That's possible too. But it doesn't answer my question.
03:03 < turtlesalltheway> cut on the bottom results in anti-cut on the top
03:03 < turtlesalltheway> yes
03:03 < turtlesalltheway> but it might not interlock very well
03:03 < turtlesalltheway> so use a genetic algorithm
03:04 < kanzure_> You asked me about interlocking components, but you keep avoiding the issue .. why?
03:04 < turtlesalltheway> if the components cannot be seperated by force x
03:04 < turtlesalltheway> then they interlock
03:05 < kanzure_> How is separation by force determined?
03:06 < turtlesalltheway> repel parts from each other
03:06 < kanzure_> Yes, but what keeps them together in the first place? And you're not allowed to be circular.
03:07 < turtlesalltheway> the other part
03:07 < turtlesalltheway> or maybe just glue
03:07 < kanzure_> uh?
03:07 < kanzure_> I thought we were talking about interlocking components, not glues in between.
03:09 < turtlesalltheway> screw it, let's just design the parts ourselves
03:09 < kanzure_> What parts?
03:10 < turtlesalltheway> 1. interlocking electrical circuit components
03:10 < turtlesalltheway> 2. interlocking positioning rails
03:11 < kanzure_> A screw is a simple machine used to translate torque into linear .. apparently its interlocking analysis is called "holding power".
03:11 < turtlesalltheway> indeed
03:11 < turtlesalltheway> so you want to know what holds screws to the thing being screwed?
03:12 < turtlesalltheway> the threads
03:12 < kanzure_> wtf, I typoed :( s/toruqe into linear/torque force into linear force/
03:13 < kanzure_> No, I don't want to know what holds screws together, I want to know what holds wedges and interlocking components in place under strain.
03:14 < kanzure_> s/strain/compression/
03:14 < turtlesalltheway> other parts of course
03:15 < kanzure_> No, that's what's applying the forces in the first place. 
03:16 < turtlesalltheway> I cannot figure out what you are asking
03:20 < kanzure_> "preload"
03:21 < kanzure> Bolt stress detector => http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT3969713&id=E_g5AAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=%22preload%22+screws+-bone+stress+OR+tension+OR+compression+-orthopedic
03:21 < turtlesalltheway> are you looking for an algorithm to generate interlocking parts?
03:21 < kanzure_> No. That's easy.
03:22 < kanzure_> The question is whether or not they will, actually, when tested, interlock.
03:22 < kanzure_> The path stuff is simple peanuts.
03:22 < turtlesalltheway> yeah
03:23 < turtlesalltheway> but the first question that needs to be answered is can a cellular automaton type self-repper actually replicate
03:23 < turtlesalltheway> fully
03:23 < kanzure_> For instance: you can cut a sheet of metal with a laser (because you want to use a laser) in some zig-zag direction down the centerline. You take the two parts and they will not 'interlock' together really. 
03:23 < kanzure_> What the hell are you talking about?
03:23 < kanzure_> I thought we were talking about an interlocking component generator.
03:24 < turtlesalltheway> for a self-replicating machine
03:24 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.18.htm
03:24 < kanzure_> What's wrong with the SKDB approach?
03:24 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.25.4.htm
03:25 < turtlesalltheway> I don't think anything is wrong with it
03:25 < kanzure_> you must think something is wrong with it if you're still going for ad-hoc design strategies.
03:25 < turtlesalltheway> I think if you build everything out of discrete components
03:26 < turtlesalltheway> blocks, wireblocks, motorblocks as opposed to screws, wire, pipe
03:27 < kanzure_> I think you don't know what ad hoc means.
03:27 < turtlesalltheway> individually machined components
03:27 < kanzure_> Ad hoc means to "give up on a consistency and just carry on with the current chaos".
03:28 < turtlesalltheway> no this is to make it easier for SKDB
03:28 < kanzure_> what is 'this'
03:29 < turtlesalltheway> using  block components, that can perform multiple functions as opposed to machined components that can perform one function
03:29 < kanzure_> Why'd you assume it wouldn't include block components?
03:30 < turtlesalltheway> I am saying dike out machined components
03:30 < turtlesalltheway> or unique components
03:31 < kanzure_> Do you mean to say to make that a closer left-hand-branch on the tree?
03:31 < turtlesalltheway> yes
03:32 < turtlesalltheway> but the question is, can a bunch of block replicate?
03:32 < kanzure_> that's what SKDB answers.
03:33 < turtlesalltheway> indeed
03:33 < kanzure_> ..
03:33 < turtlesalltheway> the moses replicator could self assemble
03:33 < turtlesalltheway> to some degree
03:33 < turtlesalltheway> but it couldn't fabricate it's own parts
03:39 < turtlesalltheway> so the question is how do we get it to fabricate it's own parts
03:40 < kanzure_> That's why we do dependency checks on the manufacturing processes, parts and components, such that we find the subgraphs in the pot of soup ..
03:40 < kanzure_> (automatically)
03:41 < turtlesalltheway> how again
03:41 < kanzure_> how much are you asking 'how' .. i.e., from what point do you need me to start explaining
03:41 < turtlesalltheway> do you determine if an aluminum ore processor can be part of a replicating machine
03:42 < kanzure_> Not individually.
03:42 < kanzure_> Instead, you have all sorts of ore processors in the database/repository too.
03:42 < turtlesalltheway> do they network to other parts or what?
03:42 < kanzure_> And you go searching from every single part to see if it can be connected to a part that connects to a part that .. connects to a part that makes that same ore processor.
03:42 < kanzure_> Every part has an input and output, yes.
03:43 < turtlesalltheway> so you have to put in parts to see if they replicate
03:44 < turtlesalltheway> SKDB can't give you guidelines on what parts to use
03:45 < kanzure_> Please rephrase.
03:46 < turtlesalltheway> you have to put a replicator design into SKDB to see if it replicates?
03:46 < kanzure_> Nope.
03:46 < turtlesalltheway> ok
03:46 < kanzure_> (But you could (and you should)).
03:46 < kanzure_> What you do is you put in individual parts.
03:46 < kanzure_> You let SKDB show you which parts can be interconnected to make replicators.
03:46 < turtlesalltheway> and it tells you which ones to use?
03:47 < kanzure_> It may even tell you multiple options.
03:47 < turtlesalltheway> excellent
03:50 < turtlesalltheway> so how do we see if Charles Michael Collin's replicator replicates
03:50 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/_home.html
03:50 < kanzure_> What are the parts?
03:51 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/index2.html?1205127168630
03:51 < turtlesalltheway> here's some source
03:51 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.everypatent.com/comp/pat5764518.html
03:51 < turtlesalltheway> here's a patent
03:51 < kanzure_> What are the parts?
03:51 < turtlesalltheway> that's all there is
03:51 < kanzure_> Then how the hell do I know?
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> I don't know
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> heck
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> no one except Charles Michael Collins knows
03:53 < kanzure_> Doesn't really help. :(
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/_home.html
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> here's the homepage
03:53 < turtlesalltheway> I know
03:55 < turtlesalltheway> wtf
03:55 < turtlesalltheway> I swear there were like some diagrams in that patent 
03:55 < turtlesalltheway> but now they are gone
03:59 < turtlesalltheway> http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.16.htm
03:59 < turtlesalltheway> there's a diagram there
03:59 < turtlesalltheway> try emailing Collins
04:01 < turtlesalltheway> dang it
04:01 < turtlesalltheway> I am having trouble getting my tv tuner to work 
04:22 < gene> I'm back
06:00 < kanzure> http://materialica.com/ 11th International Trade Fair for Materials Applications, Surface Technology and Product Engineering " the leading trade fair for material supply,"
06:14 < gene> anyone there?
06:21 < kanzure_> gene: yes.
06:21 < gene> dang
06:24 < gene> where do you post the log files for this?
06:25 < kanzure_> I don't post them regularly.
06:26 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ should have a 'logs.zip' file.
06:26 < kanzure_> And if not, then maybe http://heybryan.org/docs/
06:26 < gene> can you search it on google?
06:26 < kanzure_> No.
06:26 < gene> ok
06:26 < kanzure_> You can try. I'm pretty sure it's not on Google.
06:27 < gene> http://www.google.com/patents?id=5VQaAAAAEBAJ&dq=self+replicating+Charles+Michael+Collins
06:27 < gene> I found all the parts for that replicator
06:27 < gene> that needs to be tested
06:28 < gene> that is about all information on it
06:30 < gene> maybe you can figure out how it work
06:30 < gene> s
06:30 < gene> all I know is that it uses a hot knife to cut modular pieces
06:30 < gene> then there is something with wires
06:32 < gene> there is something called a dabber
06:32 < gene> I can't figure out how it works
06:37 < gene> ok, now the patent seems very weird
06:38 < gene> "mimicking lattice structure and chemical content of substances, create transponders to mimic energies or fields"
06:38 < gene> wtf?
06:41 < UtopiahGHML> anybody played with OpenCalais?
06:41 < gene> what's opencalais?
06:45 < UtopiahGHML> web service to analyze your text and produce meta-data to use with semantic engines (or just have html annotations)
06:45 < UtopiahGHML> opencalais.com
06:45 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.opencalais.com/calaisAPI
12:52 < facefaceface> UtopiahGHML, ?
12:53 < facefaceface> where is your website again?
12:54 < facefaceface> yo nsh 
12:54 < facefaceface> do you know the url of UtopiahGHML 'smart idea' wiki?
12:59 < nsh> oh 
12:59 < nsh> hmm
12:59  * nsh checks logs
13:00 < facefaceface> ty
13:01 < nsh> 04[16:58] <UtopiahGHML> nsh: http://seedea.free.fr/wiki/index.php?n=Content.Seedealiveprogresses
13:01 < facefaceface> seedea thanks
13:02 < facefaceface> why dosn't google recognise 'me' as a valid email address?
13:03 < facefaceface> do we have a bot?
13:03 < facefaceface> 2003 - 13?
13:03 < facefaceface> `1990
13:07 < facefaceface> I need more words for OMFG
13:32  * nsh smiles
13:41 < facefaceface> OK, I added some words to this seedea thing...
13:41 < facefaceface> http://seedea.free.fr/wiki/index.php?n=Oimp.MetaDNA
13:41 < facefaceface> Please for your feedback (Added 'Abstract')
13:42 < facefaceface> here is the important bit... "This phenomenal technological revolution promises to revolutionize almost every field of biology and health care. However, these advances in molecular biology have created a new bottleneck in the scientific discovery pipeline. Namely, the cost of data storage."
13:53 < facefaceface> fenn, can you add words about how cool DNA is for data storage?
14:10  * nsh is dubious
14:10 < nsh> how fast can you see read/write to dna
14:10 < nsh> ?
14:11 < nsh> solid state storage capacity/price is growing with a pretty high exponent
14:13  * nsh frowns
14:13 < nsh> why isn't all this data collected somewhere centrally...
14:13 < nsh> (regarding growth patterns, etc.)
14:13 < nsh> it should be possible to plot anything against anything easily
14:14 < nsh> using community-sourced data
14:14 < nsh> someone needs to whip the internet a little 
14:26 < kanzure> nsh: there's a few sites that do that
14:26 < kanzure> but the problem is that everybody gets that idea
14:26 < kanzure> and then their sources are nonintegratable because they keep it all on their little islands
14:26 < kanzure> As it turns out, this was my summer project
14:27 < kanzure> in the areas of technological exponential growth, computing, storage pricing, manufacturing, etc., we had probability distributes within some ranges to sometimes hit points that Kurzweil or other assholes say are true
14:32 < kanzure> is the server accessible?
14:42 < fenn> no
14:47 < nsh> mm
14:48  * nsh eats breakfast, thinks
14:49 < kanzure_> blah.
14:55 < kanzure_> fixed.
14:56 < nsh> http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html interesting
15:01 < fenn> hmm blu-ray 200GB disk is making my argument for DNA data storage less compelling
15:01 < kanzure_> do we have blu-ray burners yet?
15:02 < fenn> i dont know anyone with a blu-ray anything
15:02 < kanzure_> me either :(
15:05 < fenn> where's my holographic memory cube
15:08 < fenn> anyone know what's up with the price difference in flash SSD's? $12k vs $400 between brands
15:10 < nsh> wouldn't imagine it's for any different reason than all other price-range distribution
15:10 < nsh> people charge what people pay
15:12 < fenn> i must say this looks quite reasonable: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch_v2.asp?scriteria=BA25346
15:14 < fenn> froogle is pretty good for this sort of thing
15:15 < fenn> i feel like a super human shopper already :P
15:15 < kanzure> hah, froogle still exists?
15:15 < fenn> of course. it's when you click on 'shopping' from google's front page
15:23 < fenn> http://unit.aist.go.jp/amri/group/finemfg/English/research/Microfactory/CPT2002.pdf
15:24 < kanzure_> slow download.
15:25 < fenn> i wouldnt really call it "micro" so much as "mini"
15:26 < kanzure_> 200k rpm?
15:26 < kanzure_> (from the abstract)
15:26 < fenn> that seems... unlikely
15:26 < fenn> with that big ol' pulley and timing belt
15:27 < kanzure_> what's the rpm on airplanes?
15:27 < fenn> ah, it's 20k
15:27 < fenn> must have been a typo
15:27 < fenn> airplanes usually around 30-50k, but some turbines go up to 100krpm
15:27 < fenn> (small ones)
15:28 < kanzure_> yeah, so, 200k heh'
15:28 < fenn> at 1million weird things start to happen
15:29 < fenn> i want a micro factory :(
15:30 < kanzure_> enlighten me about the size of the machined objects.
15:30 < kanzure_> I'm guessing you could just feed a larger object through it or something
15:30 < kanzure_> and take a hell of a long time for (relatively) 'big' stuff
15:31 < kanzure_> 'direct die mold machining'
15:31 < kanzure_> oh, fig 7 shows feeding shoots
15:31 < kanzure_> what's with the random flag?
15:32 < fenn> spain?
15:34 < fenn> ok so i'd rather have something capable of 10cm x 10cm
15:34 < fenn> but the whole fits-in-a-suitcase idea is nice
15:35 < kanzure_> "what the hell are you going to do, machine yourself a weapon while on the airplane?" yay
15:36 < fenn> ok so it's 200k rpm after all
15:36 < fenn> i'd machine myself an airplane while on the airplane
15:36 < kanzure_> "fuck this shit, that wing is totally wrong. here. lemme fix."
15:36 < fenn> then i'd fly it around the cabin and pester the stewardesses
15:37 < fenn> i wonder how long until you have to board the airplane in your underwear
15:37 < fenn> that might be.. interesting
15:37 < kanzure_> depends on your destination
15:39 < fenn> wow the millfeeds at 50mm/s
15:39 < kanzure_> these numbers sound all wrong though
15:39 < kanzure_> I mean, 200k rpm, what have you done, welded the thing to the ground?
15:39 < fenn> it says it machined that logo in 120 seconds
15:43 < kanzure_> http://www.pmrc.gatech.edu/ISFA/ symposium on flexible automation. 
15:43 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/manufacturing/Development%20of%20desktop%20machining%20microfactory.pdf is one of the references mentioned in the PDF you linked.
15:43 < kanzure_> hm, what's that fig 1 board called? Eric mentioned it to me once.
15:43 < kanzure_> "it's used in everything"
15:44 < kanzure_> for prototyping and mounting. L-something?
15:44 < fenn> optical breadboard
15:45 < kanzure_> k, I agree, but I'm thinking of something else that I can't name now. :(
15:45 < kanzure_> surely these guys have some CAD/design files for this minifactory.
15:45 < fenn> hah
15:46 < kanzure_> no?
15:46 < fenn> surely you're joking mister bishop
15:46 < kanzure_> they just throw random shit together?
15:46 < fenn> there probably is, but i doubt it's either accurate or complete
15:47 < fenn> and most likely scattered over five hard drives that are buried in the lab somewhere
15:47 < fenn> in a format you can't read, probably containing mostly japanese strings
15:48 < fenn> but go ahead and ask, maybe you'll get lucky
15:52 < kanzure_> hm
15:53 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/patents?id=vDKJAAAAEBAJ&dq=desktop+microfactory
15:53 < fenn> ugh please stop linking to patents
15:53 < kanzure_> okay.
15:53 < fenn> thanks
15:55 < kanzure> http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=BoqYILA2HuEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA531&dq=%22miniature+manufacturing%22+&ots=neaTYL9MmO&sig=Yz0DTYuX3VvlOKSfsJyAigN5vjU     "Concurrent Design of a Manufacturing System Utilizing a Microfactory" by Mishima
15:58 < fenn> yay viewing limits
16:01 < kanzure_> "This paper documents our efforts to develop a scalable network infrastructure for distributed automation (minifactory)"
16:02 < kanzure_> huh. "industrial field networks". commercial versions: http://profibus.com/ http://controlnet.org/ http://worldfip.org/
16:02  * fenn yawns
16:27 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_eProcurement good god what happened here
16:33 < kanzure> https://open-b2b.dev.java.net/
16:34 < kanzure> http://guycrets.blogspot.com/2007/07/b2b-open-source-as2.html
16:38 < kanzure> wtf, who is this "Nikola Stojanovic" person? weren't we recently mentioning him?
16:45 < kanzure> 'New Rosettanet Engineering Information Management Standard allows automated communication of design specifications'   http://www.rosettanet.org/cms/sites/RosettaNet/RosettaNet.pdf   
16:47 < kanzure> helloo data :) http://members.rosettanet.org/dnn_rose/TradingPartnerDirectory/TradingPartnerDirectorySearch/tabid/294/Default.aspx
17:03 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/ebware/ open source business gateway (inactive, no downloads)
17:20 < UtopiahGHML> faceface: you can use seedea.org is easier to remember
19:50 < ybit> no hope for my hard drive
19:51 < ybit> putting live iso on usb drive
19:51  * kanzure has learned the joys of links2 -g
19:52 < ybit> hehe
19:52 < ybit> except when viewing flash sites? :)
19:52 < kanzure> flash is for the weak! etc.
19:52 < kanzure> just use a flash script downloader thingy. I wonder if there's a libsvga mplayer variant.
19:52 < ybit> man, i missed the cali. diybio live stream :|
19:52  * ybit won't have another computer for a couple of months :|
19:52 < kanzure> somebody recommended a .com for youtube stream capturing stuff the other day
19:52 < kanzure> ybit: how many do you have?
19:53 < ybit> one laptop, one desktop
19:53 < ybit> might be able to get the desktop working though..
19:57 < ybit> anyone watch or dump the stream from the diybio meeting?
19:57 < kanzure> Nope, but I did go to the URL that was provided. I was hoping it would be looping. Wrong.
20:20 < ybit> kanzure, what was the link about turtles you sent on friday afternoon?
20:20 < kanzure> irrelevant methinks
20:20 < kanzure> you really want it?
20:20 < ybit> heh, i never read it, just wondering what it was
22:38 < kanzure> wow, I'm amazed at how little people can say about EDIFACT, TRADCOMS, SEDAS, VDA, ODETTE, ANASI X.12, ebXML, RosettaNet, PIPS, AS2, B2B, etc. with so many words. 
22:39 < kanzure> in the past hour of browsing around the net with my lil' browser I haven't seen any actual implementation notes or anything that might qualify as "not bullshit"
22:39  * nsh has no idea what any of those are
22:39 < nsh> so i assume they're all entirely useless articles of techbunkum 
22:40 < nsh> *articals
22:49 < kanzure> heh heh. fenn's monkey: http://sap.ittoolbox.com/documents/popular-q-and-a/sap-mm-interview-questions-3586
22:49 < kanzure> nsh: I'm pretty sure it's articles
22:55  * nsh smiles
22:55 < nsh> for some reason i got the idea that the two senses had different spellings
23:03 < kanzure> god.
23:03 < kanzure> these people are doing business transactions in the $billion's over stuff like FTP,
23:04 < kanzure> and then spending hundreds of thousands on programmers to write fancy ftp clients for their fancy "business integration platforms" .. uh, ftp directories
23:05 < nsh> :-/
23:05 < kanzure> but for all of this work, there's no standard like "robots.txt" on their servers
23:06 < kanzure> though ports 4080, 9999, 5110, 2131, and 5555 might work for some 'stuff'
23:58 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Business_Language 'UBL is another currently being adopted by Scandinavian governments as a legally required standard for sending invoices to governments, and was enforced in February 2005 that all invoices to the Danish government must be sent in an electronic format.' or I guess this points to http://legalxml.org/