--- Day changed Tue Oct 07 2008
06:25 < splicer> quiet day in #hplusroadmap
06:25 < bkero> Boo
06:26 < bkero> I'm always here, might not always talk.
06:26 < splicer> didn't see you there
06:26 < splicer> channelghost
06:28 < splicer> diybio seems to have has some activity for once
13:04 < kanzure> Huh. Mr. Craigslist is speaking at the uni.
14:21 < ybit> http://superstructgame.org/
14:21 < ybit> http://www.maplight.org/
14:22 < ybit> http://claimid.com/
14:22 < ybit> http://transitionculture.org/
14:22 < ybit> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftransitionculture.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FKinsaleEnergyDescentActionPlan.pdf&ei=6W_rSJ-lO5CSggTErp3WDA&usg=AFQjCNEn8kSEsxEtTFOlRwSmcpqKb58Hew&sig2=x_FZeprFTimZPOp75sWtEw
14:23 < ybit> links found due to superstruct video on the 'ultimate threat'
14:24 < ybit> probably not the greatest links
14:24 < ybit> sucks using a virtual keyboard
14:26 < nsh> hrmm
14:26 < nsh> someone should work a common scientific game framework
14:26 < nsh> for making constructive games such as the protein folding one
14:27 < nsh> harness the recreasphere
14:32 < ybit> google could do this w/ lively, bkero, hint hint :)
14:33 < bkero> What what?
14:34 < nsh> wait
14:34 < nsh> isn't lively a joke?
14:34 < nsh> like a puritan-kid's version of second life
14:35 < nsh> oh that's it
14:35 < ybit> ..just as soon as the data is opened and and i can run it on me linux box.
14:35 < nsh> it's ms-chat in 3d
14:35  * nsh smiles
14:35 < ybit> damn it sucks to type by clicking
14:36 < nsh> please explain why you have no keyboard, using the medium of ms-paint (or equivalent)
14:37 < ybit> if i type, there's a good chance my screen will go blank and i will have to restart this mammoth
14:37 < ybit> but i'm typng now because my hands are starting to cramp :P
14:38 < nsh> superstruct looks interesting
14:38 < nsh> hmm
14:38 < ybit> hand*
14:38 < nsh> what kind of errors is the keyboard causing?
14:40 < ybit> i suspect there's a shortage somewhere and so any vibration from say using they keyboard or especally moving the screen will cause it to go blank
14:45 < nsh> laptop?
14:45  * nsh having wiring problems too :-/
14:45 < bkero> Buy a better keyboard ;)
14:48 < ybit> hehe
14:49 < ybit> anyone ever tried rearranging their keyboard keys to dvorak layout?
14:49 < ybit> silly me for doing that once
14:50 < nsh> i rearranged the keys but they still typed querty :-(((
14:50 < nsh> (jk)
14:50 < ybit> :P
14:50 < bkero> I wouldn't want to change anything on my keyboard. :3
16:38 < kanzure> ybit: /me is already on claimid. But it's just another openid site.
16:39 < kanzure> nsh: scientific framework game? I'm sure you could do this in general for certain classes of computing problems, and then project this over biological domains.
16:44 < kanzure> Gah. 'gene' is now telling me about the latest tests for MWI
16:45 < kanzure> I asked him to list as many interpretations of quantum mechanics as he knew, as quickly as he could
16:45 < kanzure> 'one world interpretation'
16:45 < kanzure> 'multiple world interpretation'
16:45 < kanzure> and he stopped. :(
16:45 < kanzure> kids these days.
18:23 < kanzure> nsh: scientific framework game? I'm sure you could do this in general for certain classes of computing problems, and then project this over biological domains.
18:24  * nsh nods
18:27 < kanzure> hrm
18:27 < kanzure> so the professor has two 150 gallon tanks to unload and lug up 10 flights of stairs
18:27 < kanzure> wants me there in 30 minutes
18:27 < kanzure> now, I was under the presumption that I was still doing shape optimization
18:27 < kanzure> in fact, I'm sure of it
18:27  * kanzure listens to his boxen crunch
18:27 < kanzure> guess we're just going to be doing tubs apparently
18:27 < kanzure> O.o
18:30 < UtopiahGHML> anybody using some social feed rinsing tool? as in you and your friends rate item within your feedclient then you choose to read only well rated feeds (or they would just appear bigger)
18:30 < kanzure> no
18:30 < kanzure> because everyone except me sucks
18:31 < kanzure> http://strangeandhappy.com/2008/09/27/stranger-and-happier-a-positive-science-fiction-manifesto/
18:31 < UtopiahGHML> what about people who have friends they trust?
18:32 < fenn> neat video demoing many basic machining operations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCL7S4eGELM&feature=related
18:32 < fenn> repeats halfway through for some reason
18:32 < UtopiahGHML> ok Im starting a SocialReading idea that would make a mashup with bloglines+greasemonkey+website
18:32 < UtopiahGHML> any suggesiton on this?
18:33 < fenn> bloglines?
18:33 < UtopiahGHML> online feed reader
18:33 < kanzure> whatever you do, do not make it a website
18:34 < kanzure> good god man. you mustn't.
18:34 < UtopiahGHML> ?
18:34 < bkero> Starting an idea?
18:34 < kanzure> a good client would be nice
18:34 < kanzure> with a server daemon like a tracker 
18:35 < UtopiahGHML> a standalone client on online client, same mechanism in the end
18:35 < UtopiahGHML> bkero: adding an iteam in my idea box
18:36 < kanzure> ah, just an ideabox entrant .. mostly when I start an idea that just means implementation as well since otherwise it just fizzles out and dies
18:36  * kanzure has yet to submit his fixes to akregator for streamlined news reading + sharing
18:36 < kanzure> it was basically just an extra shortcut and some backend code to format the silly html/rss stuff into a better format
18:36 < kanzure> and then uploaded it to my blog
18:37 < UtopiahGHML> well before writting it and using resources on an idea I need to know if it already exist and what is valuable in it else I would never have any focus...
18:37 < UtopiahGHML> you refine and select before investing
18:37 < kanzure> a few days ago I was mentioning doing this with PDFs for SCIENCE (yes, you must shout it) and then using Autozen/AutoScholar for reading the papers automatically on an idle monitor, but whatever
18:37 < kanzure> oh, there's probably a few sites doing that IIRC
18:37 < fenn> kanzure: re positive science fiction, "the world is not, and never will be, a monolithic entity seeking to destroy the ecosystem and enslave the population"; this realization came to me when i was a week into a 100% raw diet.. i think most people are under constant chemical assault from inside their bodies, and it manifests as a feeling that everything is trying to attack you
18:37 < bkero> What's a PDF?
18:37 < kanzure> bkero: Pure evil.
18:38 < bkero> Hum
18:38 < bkero> Is there a better alternative?
18:38 < kanzure> plain text
18:38 < bkero> Why doesn't anybody use it?
18:38 < fenn> because it's not pretty enough
18:39 < bkero> Isn't there something as pretty as PDF but not evil?
18:39  * fenn shrugs
18:39 < kanzure> fenn: You think food 'poisoning' (at the scale that is non-toxic) is finding a route from physiology to psychology and there's some manifestation / idle realization of this bombardment to them? Is it possible that, instead, they're just clueless?
18:39 < fenn> bkero: i dont think pdf is evil, just annoying
18:39 < kanzure> why does it take my machine so much power to render pdf ?
18:39 < kanzure> I can hardly open 10 or 20 at a time.
18:39 < bkero> Isn't there something less annoying than PDF?
18:40 < kanzure> PS, sort of
18:40 < bkero> What's hte problem with PS?
18:40 < kanzure> but it's nearly like PDF IMO
18:40 < fenn> if there were a pdf->html converter that preserved formatting and images, i wouldnt mind at all
18:40 < nsh> ohai
18:40 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure: didn't understand you in the end does it exist or not?
18:40 < kanzure> fenn: ah, but consider the problems with writing HTML rendering engines
18:40 < bkero> Yea, except PS is open source and plaintext.
18:40 < fenn> PS is just as slow as pdf (but at least it's greppable)
18:40 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: I vaguely recall something like that maybe existing. Delicious comes to mind.
18:40 < kanzure> fenn: can't they just as easily put an image as the page for ps files? :/
18:41 < fenn> so i have 6 gigs of pdf's i want to grep occasionally.. not sure how to deal with that
18:41 < bkero> OS X can index them
18:41 < bkero> Beagle MIGHT be able to.
18:41 < kanzure> fenn: there's a nice perl pdf cpan thingy that I've used before
18:41 < kanzure> but I didn't bother with indexing or doing any type of search with it
18:42 < kanzure> there's a method for extracting/reading text in a pdf
18:42 < fenn> kanzure: "put an image as the page"?
18:42 < kanzure> "scan a page" without OCRing
18:42 < fenn> why would you do that?
18:42 < kanzure> fuck if I know
18:42 < kanzure> many have done it with PDF
18:42 < fenn> that's just stupidity, not a problem with pdf
18:43 < fenn> they might as well post TIFF files and charge fees (oh hai USPTO)
18:43 < kanzure> the real alternative to every-science-paper-as-PDF is publishing actual, runnable, code
18:44 < kanzure> so instead of a bajillion papers about models about X, you have the actual models about X>
18:44 < fenn> ah that would be nice
18:44 < kanzure> since there's a bottleneck at the journals and the publishers anyway, they might as well enforce at that point
18:44 < kanzure> yeah
18:44 < kanzure> then we don't have to read crappy graphy files
18:44 < fenn> instead of that pseudo-math notation algorithm stuff
18:44 < kanzure> (although gnuplot files would be nice)
18:45 < bkero> All scientific papers should be written in latex and rendered when a display is needed!
18:45 < kanzure> when I investigated it, latex wasn't too friendly in the syntax department
18:46 < kanzure> for mathematics, mathml might be doing better, or something like it
18:46 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.aiderss.com/ Use PostRank. to score, filter and track performance of any RSS feed.
18:46 < kanzure> for chemistry, chemml, etc.
18:46 < bkero> What?  Latex is perfectly fine.
18:46 < kanzure> have you seen some of the syntax?
18:46 < kanzure> it's more of a markup than a semantic thing for the content
18:46 < bkero> My RESUME is written in LaTeX.
18:46 < kanzure> I mean, it's nice to be able to make it all fancy, but
18:46 < kanzure> yes, yes, I'm sure it is
18:46 < bkero> I write all papers for school in latex above 1 page.
18:47 < fenn> latex is a typesetting language
18:47 < kanzure> heh, so at one point I was proposing to the neurocommons guys that we just use a reverse latex generator
18:47 < fenn> the point is to go beyond typesetting
18:47 < kanzure> feed in the PDFs, get out the original possibilities for latex
18:47 < kanzure> given an understanding of the BNF/DTD for latex
18:47 < kanzure> ;-)
18:47 < fenn> i though SGML was supposed to fix all this
18:47 < kanzure> and how the conversion from the typeset to the graphics works
18:47 < UtopiahGHML> (duh I was actually already using AideRSS...)
18:47 < kanzure> hrm
18:47 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: :)
18:47 < kanzure> fenn: SGML was supposed to fix a lot of things apparently
18:47 < bkero> $\frac{2x_{2}-1}{2*10^{x}}$
18:47 < kanzure> the latest email I sent to the openmanufacturing list
18:48 < kanzure> with all of the crappy links to egXML and stuff
18:48 < fenn> gah it's worse than perl
18:48 < kanzure> apparently those were initiatives after SGML but kind of from the same W3C people
18:48 < fenn> kanzure: why did you send that email anyway? it looks like an ai dump
18:48 < kanzure> (except moving over to the business sector a bit. B2B, EDI, ebxml, etc.)
18:48 < kanzure> fenn: did you see the bottom
18:48 < bkero> No it's not.  I could have also written the same thing as $ \frac{2 x_2 - 1}{2 * 10^x} $
18:48 < kanzure> there was actual content
18:48 < kanzure> :(
18:49 < UtopiahGHML> (maybe AideRSS only allow to use 1 total ranking and not build your community or select a subpart of it)
18:50 < kanzure> I wish my RSS aggregator / reader client wasn't so stupid
18:50 < kanzure> it just loads everything all at once when I go into the main folder
18:50 < bkero> Get a smarter rss reader
18:50 < kanzure> nobody writes programs correctly .. just always assume there's enough RAM
18:50 < kanzure> no, I'm pretty sure this doesn't exist yet
18:50 < kanzure> even though it should
18:50  * UtopiahGHML uses Bloglines beta
18:50 < kanzure> a dynamic memory allocation library of sorts
18:50 < kanzure> so that when there's more items, you *cut off* the loading gasp
18:50 < kanzure> until the user is within scrolling range
18:50 < kanzure> gasp
18:51 < fenn> kanzure: but that's so not elegant!!1
18:52 < kanzure> elegant as loading it all at once?
18:52 < kanzure> heh'
18:54 < kanzure> huh. giant liquid nitrogen tank. yay.
18:54 < kanzure> get to lug /that/ up 3 floors.
18:54 < bkero> I saw four of those on the streets of new york walking around yesterday.
18:54 < bkero> Why would those be out in the open like that?
18:55 < kanzure> well, sometimes on farm land I also see giant tanks
18:55 < kanzure> probably not liquid nitrogen
18:55 < kanzure> but the same general structure: GIANT CYLINDER
18:55 < UtopiahGHML> anybody using RSS intensively, can you imagine loosing your list of feeds (and the OPML)?
18:55 < bkero> No, they said 'LIQUID NITROGEN' on the side.
18:55 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: I am very RSS intense.
18:55 < kanzure> I have 150,000 unread feed items and about 1000 subscriptions.
18:55 < UtopiahGHML> so can you imagine loosing this?
18:55 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/ is my old OPML
18:55 < bkero> Don't subscribe to the general Digg list. :P
18:55 < kanzure> nope, because I have it extensively backed up
18:56 < UtopiahGHML> ...
18:56 < UtopiahGHML> the point of imaging is to go beyond what is expected, imagine!
18:56 < kanzure> okay, all of my hard drives fail
18:56 < UtopiahGHML> imagining
18:56 < kanzure> everyone's hard drives fail
18:56 < fenn> bkero: possibly to keep the nitrogen from asphyxiating everyone in a closed room?
18:56 < bkero> Mine don't.
18:56 < kanzure> fenn: nahh
18:56 < kanzure> bkero: bah, you and your stupid flash :)
18:56 < fenn> does it not evaporate that fast?
18:56 < bkero> Indeed. 8)
18:57 < kanzure> fenn: I'm actually not sure. That's something worth checking.
18:57 < kanzure> All of the labs here keep their gas tanks inside, including liquid nitrogen.
18:57 < bkero> Yea
18:57 < fenn> iirc the evaporation rate was surprisingly slow, but also the mass of air in a room is surprisingly small
18:57 < bkero> At the University of Montana we kept it in a facility.
18:57 < bkero> THese were on STREET CORNERS
18:57 < UtopiahGHML> so what do you do now that your RSS are lost?
18:58 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: I rerun my RSS crawler.
18:58 < UtopiahGHML> based on keywords?
18:58 < fenn> bkero: maybe they were cleverly disguised government surveilance robots
18:59 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: No, I've just been keeping track of blogs that are referenced in the feeds that I already read.
18:59 < kanzure> like multiple references
18:59 < kanzure> blog X, blog Y, both mention blog Z, so maybe I should start to take a hint, etc.
18:59 < UtopiahGHML> nice, made a visual map out of it?
18:59 < kanzure> not yet. 
19:00 < kanzure> and the code isn't even fully function really
19:00 < kanzure> *functional
19:00 < kanzure> fenn: so I'm happy about links2 -g
19:00 < UtopiahGHML> as long as you have the data, RDF?
19:00 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: what?
19:00 < fenn> what does links2 -g do?
19:00 < kanzure> framebuffer graphical browser in cli
19:00 < fenn> oh
19:00 < kanzure> no css
19:00 < kanzure> but other than that :)
19:01 < kanzure> does have some javascript support apparently
19:01 < kanzure> fenn: so I was thinking I'd finally try to transfer over from konqueror/opera soon .. maybe while still in KDE, though preferably not .. 
19:01 < UtopiahGHML> if your multiple references are in a structured way, eventually with an explicit XML schema or RDF then it should be no problem to build the graphics
19:01 < kanzure> I just need a way to manage 'tabs' or my browsing through tabs
19:01 < kanzure> so either the vertical KDE taskbar or something else
19:01 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: yes, I agree
19:01  * fenn patiently waits for dillo+css to get finished
19:01  * kanzure thinks dillo might be going down the path of duke nukem
19:02 < fenn> increasing number of websites are not working with konqueror anymore
19:02 < UtopiahGHML> (Vimperator + FF for effective browsing)
19:02 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: firefox crashes with more than 10 tabs :/
19:02 < fenn> paypal didnt work today in konq
19:02 < kanzure> with Opera I can do 300 to 400, but with system slowdowns
19:03 < kanzure> fenn: isn't it in paypal's favor to work with konqueror?
19:03 < UtopiahGHML> 400 tabs...
19:03 < kanzure> or does it not have the SSL/HTPS or other certificate standards?
19:03 < UtopiahGHML> how many screens do you have? 20? :P
19:03 < fenn> kanzure: nobody uses konqueror in a statistically significant sense
19:03 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: 8 monitors
19:03 < UtopiahGHML> lol
19:03 < UtopiahGHML> picture
19:03 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: hold
19:03  * UtopiahGHML holds
19:03 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-07-22_bryandorm.png
19:03 < kanzure> friend => http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/Superkuh_Jan22_06_desk_112956055_53fe3cf020.jpg
19:04 < kanzure> same friend => http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/physicaldesktop.jpg
19:04 < UtopiahGHML> Im sure accross all your browsing you never cam accross the concept of information overload ;)
19:04 < kanzure> other friend => http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/notstevebutjoe/IMG_0853.JPG
19:04 < kanzure> "information overload" 
19:04 < fenn> UtopiahGHML: problem with FF isn't the key bindings, it's the fact that it's a RAM hog
19:04 < kanzure> insert typical rant here
19:04 < kanzure> have I done an 'information overload' rant yet?
19:05 < kanzure> fenn: and the single threadedness.
19:05 < kanzure> or I don't know if that's what's really going on
19:05 < fenn> they're related
19:05 < kanzure> how does opera do it? is it doing multiple threads?
19:05 < fenn> single process leads to memory fragmentation
19:05 < UtopiahGHML> man you have only CRT are you trying to build a sauna?
19:05 < fenn> is that a stack of graphics cards?
19:05 < kanzure> yeah :(
19:05 < kanzure> (to fenn)
19:06 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: I probably have cancer. :/
19:06 < UtopiahGHML> like everybody else...
19:06 < fenn> hey i have that same chair
19:06 < kanzure> mine? I used to have kuh's chair
19:06 < kanzure> it was a good chair too
19:07 < ybit> "Improved Dissemination of Scientific Literature and Data with Userscripts"
19:07 < UtopiahGHML> IMG_0853.JPG is the best one :)
19:07 < ybit> http://blueobelisk.sourceforge.net/wiki/Userscripts
19:07 < UtopiahGHML> the guy is in the basement to keep it cold
19:07 < UtopiahGHML> love it :P
19:07 < kanzure> that's Steve's brother :)
19:07 < kanzure> ybit: are they scraping PDF links?
19:07 < kanzure> with greasemonkey?
19:08 < kanzure> guess not
19:08 < kanzure> just scraping various syntaxes or links for other things. pdb visualization. jmol. etc.
19:08 < bkero> Too many CRTs
19:08 < bkero> That's a BUNCH of cancer
19:08 < bkero> WHOA lots of cancer
19:10 < kanzure> anyway
19:10 < kanzure> vertical taskbar or something else.
19:10 < bkero> No taskbar :P
19:10 < kanzure> by 'something else' I mean back to CLI
19:10 < kanzure> bkero: I'm talking about ways to manage 400 tabs at once
19:10 < kanzure> or really not 'tabs' but rather just stuff that you've been thinking about recently
19:10 < bkero> vimperator
19:10 < kanzure> god, are you even listening to us?
19:10 < UtopiahGHML> any idea of the price per hour of 8 CRTs like that?
19:11 < kanzure> uh, free
19:11 < kanzure> I picked up a few of them for no cost
19:11 < UtopiahGHML> energy wise I mean
19:11 < fenn> 15:10 < God> dammit kanzure how many times do i have to tell you
19:11 < bkero> I think he meant in kw/h
19:11 < kanzure> oh
19:11 < kanzure> fenn: eh?
19:11 < UtopiahGHML> I hope you don't pay for CRTs ;)
19:11 < kanzure> heh
19:11 < kanzure> I paid full price! yep
19:12 < fenn> a pound of flesh nearest your heart
19:12 < kanzure> ?
19:12 < UtopiahGHML> I meant in $ not in cancer :P
19:12 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=3555
19:12 < ybit> "[18:55] <UtopiahGHML> anybody using RSS intensively, can you imagine loosing your list of feeds (and the OPML)?" -- no imagination needed this past weekend
19:12 < UtopiahGHML> Oil addict
19:12 < UtopiahGHML> It's time to confront the addiction and get some much needed help.
19:12 < kanzure> so in the CLI situation, 'tabs' would just be in files? directories? and then just use ls to search your current dir of things you're browsing about on the web? (this is obviously easier with plan9 I bet)
19:13 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: owned?
19:13 < ybit> pw3nd iow?
19:13 < bkero> Have you looked into tab navigation through vimperator?
19:13 < kanzure> I don't like the idea of having to mv, ls, cp, rm, for each of the tabs. there'd be that finite limit of, what, four columns of file names, and then 80 lines of text since it's cli?
19:14 < kanzure> bkero: no, how does it work? is it like tab navigation in elinks?
19:14 < kanzure> or tab navigation in opera for that matter? CTRL+TAB and such.
19:14 < bkero> Neither
19:14 < UtopiahGHML> it's VIMperator =]
19:14 < bkero> It's a firefox plugin
19:15 < kanzure> so what, ESC + colon + shift + x + colon + percent + z + address pointer to the tab that you want + colon + shift + tty7 + ..
19:15 < fenn> kanzure: how do you sort tabs? alphabetically? chronologically? some sort of adaptive algorithm?
19:15 < UtopiahGHML> do you auto-colorize them?
19:15  * ybit has mentioned it two too many times (vimperator)
19:15 < kanzure> fenn: in opera I'm a wimp and I just sort them based off of the mental process that I was having at that moment .. so there's a subset of the list of tabs that represents things that I was thinking about at that moment; sometimes, as you can imagine, this is in the middle of another list. heh'
19:16 < fenn> i mean how do they appear on the screen so you can select which tab to display
19:16 < kanzure> hold
19:16 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-01-02-shareyouropml.png
19:17 < bkero> Tabs Menu or Find In Tabs don't work well for you?
19:17 < fenn> i'm thinking something like a binary search tree
19:17 < bkero> There are a ton of tabs extensions on addons.
19:17 < fenn> er, not binary
19:17 < kanzure> do you see my vertical tab list?
19:17 < kanzure> bkero: oh, I'm aware of it
19:17  * UtopiahGHML wonders if Vimperator could actually auto-manage tap positionning like Irssi does it with window and eventually on better algo (should work with extension on just autocommand)
19:17 < kanzure> but first of all, firefox is already out of the question
19:17 < fenn> a search tree where you press keys to get to each subtree
19:17 < kanzure> firefox has excellent support for tab plugins
19:18 < kanzure> fenn: eh? so, each of the alphanumerics is tied to a tree?
19:18 < kanzure> for a maximum of 256 different root nodes? (or whatever)
19:18 < bkero> Why is firefox out of the question?
19:18 < fenn> well, probably 8 for asdf hjkl
19:18 < kanzure> can't handle more than 10 or 20 tabs
19:18 < kanzure> bkero: are you even listening to us?
19:18 < kanzure> seriously, we just talked about this
19:18 < kanzure> 10 minutes ago
19:18 < kanzure> fenn: so, what, click key, expand tree, see children nodes?
19:18 < kanzure> so just typical tree navigation?
19:19 < bkero> Firefox crashes for you with 10 tabs open?
19:19 < kanzure> well, 40 
19:19 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/June8th02007_browsers_SonyVAIO_PCVRS510.PNG
19:19 < kanzure> ^ lots of browsers :p
19:19 < bkero> I consistently have over 50, and I even get GOOD battery life.
19:19 < bkero> (using shiretoko)
19:19 < kanzure> bkero: One of my most favorite firefox extensions: http://heybryan.org/shots/June11th02007_Andrewbox.PNG
19:19 < bkero> But it was fine with vanilla 3.0.x too, even the betas(mostly)
19:20 < fenn> kanzure: or you could display a 4x4 grid and press two at a time to select column/row
19:21 < fenn> more than that and it's probably too much to grok instantly
19:21 < bkero> Vertical tabs
19:21 < kanzure> bkero: Vertical hierarchical tabs :) there's a vertical tab extension for firefox and it sucks (I'm currently using it, I don't know why, but I'm also not currently using iceweasel either, so it's probably just lethargy)
19:22 < fenn> speaking of lethargy, i'm taking this herbal supplement called "maca" and it seems to help with my lack of motivation
19:23 < fenn> er, but i ran out yesterday so that's probably why i'm on IRC right now instead of doing something productive
19:23 < UtopiahGHML> what's the point of having > 10 tabs? (or anything higher than what your screen can show the title on)
19:23 < kanzure>  (1R,3S)-1-methyltetrahydro--carboline-3-carboxylic acid ?
19:24 < ybit> fenn, are you still mostly a raw foodist?
19:24 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: Did you see my screenshots? Opera easily shows me more than 50 or 60 tab titles at once.
19:24 < fenn> ybit: it's difficult to maintain the necessary foresight to ensure that you have raw food, especially in midwest america
19:24 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure: did you see the second part of my question?
19:24 < fenn> ybit: so no, unfortunately
19:24 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: Keeping stuff in active memory, then.
19:25 < ybit> fenn, i'm about 40% raw
19:25 < kanzure> It's much more easily to scroll for a quick second than go through five bajillion folders in a bookmarking folder
19:25 < kanzure> folder menu thingy
19:25 < fenn> ybit: one of my wild ideas is to move to thailand
19:25 < ybit> random :P
19:25 < ybit> for raw food? :)
19:25 < fenn> not random, there's lots of good food just growing on trees there
19:25 < ybit> thought so
19:25 < kanzure> hm => UTCS Colloquium/Architecture:  Kunle Olukotun/Stanford University: "Toward Pervasive Parallelism: Parallel Applications without Parallel Programming" ACES 2.402, Monday, October 13, 2008  3:30 p.m.
19:25 < ybit> my random idea is to live on the beaches near sao paulo
19:26 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure: Vimperator does completion on keyword based on history (like the "awesome bar") so that's pretty fast too (even if you ahve to remember at least a keyword, I agree)
19:26 < kanzure> anyway
19:26 < fenn> yes brazil is good too
19:26 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: so you have to remember the names of the pages?
19:26 < kanzure> that kind of sucks
19:26  * UtopiahGHML spend 6 months in Curitiba, Parana (Brazil)
19:26 < kanzure> I just do visual remembering .. "I sort of opened up this awesome page three pages back and to the left"
19:26 < kanzure> "so that would be about .. *here* in my list"
19:26 < ybit> UtopiahGHML: how was it?  i want to stay that long before deciding for sure
19:27 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: excellent but it doesn't mean you would like it, why do you want to go there in the first place?
19:27 < ybit> man i'm so afraid to type on this keyboard :P
19:27 < fenn> ybit: can't you plug in a usb kb?
19:28 < ybit> yes, but i dont have one. realized that this morning. it's in my aunt's apartment in nashville
19:29  * fenn looks around at the piles of usb keyboards
19:29 < fenn> you dont have _any_?
19:29 < bkero> oh shit
19:29 < kanzure> bkero: ?
19:29 < bkero> in vimperator all tabs are buffers
19:29 < kanzure> hm?
19:29 < bkero> So you just hit :buffers
19:30 < kanzure> and what?
19:30 < bkero> and it pops up a new section on the bottom of the window that allows you to choose through tabs
19:30 < kanzure> vertical list?
19:30 < bkero> Yea
19:30 < ybit> UtopiahGHML: geographically, it has ideal weather. less earthquakes and supposedly anything south of 10 degrees latitude has about a 1% chance of a hurricane
19:30 < kanzure> with 400 tabs you'll be scrolling forever
19:30 < bkero> You can search
19:30 < ybit> and cheap property*
19:31 < kanzure> what fields does it search.
19:31  * kanzure sighs.
19:31 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: yes it's cheap especially if you are a westerner ... obviously. Anyway if those are you only requirement then what would be something you would avoid?
19:31 < bkero> url and title
19:31 < kanzure> meh. easily changed.
19:31 < kanzure> blah, I don't think that's a good method either
19:31 < ybit> crime
19:32 < ybit> UtopiahGHML: ^
19:32 < kanzure> "use a list or search" sounds like it's missing the big picture
19:32 < fenn> oppressive political regimes
19:32 < ybit> that too
19:32 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: that's a business in Brazil you have gatted communities, it's very developped
19:32 < ybit> but you can only for so long as a friend, *cough* phreedom *cough* pointed out this morning
19:32 < ybit> run*
19:32 < UtopiahGHML> security has a price, especially in a country with high income disparity
19:33 < fenn> i think the real problem is overpopulation
19:33 < fenn> apparently thailand had great success with their birth control program because of the buddhist culture
19:33 < UtopiahGHML> overpopulation in Brazil?
19:34 < UtopiahGHML> what does overpopulation even mean?
19:34 < fenn> too many people in a given area
19:34 < fenn> pictures like this make me want to run away: http://www.travel-earth.com/brazil/sao-paulo.jpg
19:34 < ybit> overpopulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sn5bjHAIFY
19:35 < kanzure> fenn: holy crap
19:35 < ybit> ignore the crappy commercial
19:35 < kanzure> that's a nightmare
19:35 < UtopiahGHML> hehe
19:35  * kanzure doubts that such a city could be effectively managed
19:35 < UtopiahGHML> Sao Paolo
19:36 < UtopiahGHML> I had some coktails in the highest tower there, so... quiet city :)
19:36 < ybit> if not sao paulo, then 5 hours away is rio de janeiro
19:36 < UtopiahGHML> SP is the economical center
19:36 < UtopiahGHML> Rio de Janeiro is the touristic center
19:36 < ybit> http://toursonline.org/wp-includes/images/rio_de%20janeiro.jpg
19:37 < UtopiahGHML> SP-Curitiba-Florianopolis in the industrial/economical core
19:37 < UtopiahGHML> so what will be your activity there ybit ? that would change the location I guess
19:38 < ybit> good question UtopiahGHML, it would be sweet to implement fablabs :)
19:38 < UtopiahGHML> then I would recommand Florianopolis
19:38 < UtopiahGHML> it's not far away from SP/Curitiba and also the little country south ;)
19:38 < UtopiahGHML> and few hours away by car of gorgeous island and playa
19:38 < UtopiahGHML> good party spots and surf spots
19:38 < ybit> or work in bioeng|neuroeng|compneuro field
19:39 < UtopiahGHML> top schools/uni are in SP especially regarding business
19:41 < ybit> why florianopolis?
19:42 < UtopiahGHML> 21:38 < UtopiahGHML> it's not far away from SP/Curitiba and also the little country south ;)
19:42 < UtopiahGHML> 21:38 < UtopiahGHML> and few hours away by car of gorgeous island and playa
19:42 < UtopiahGHML> 21:38 < UtopiahGHML> good party spots and surf spots
19:44 < ybit> i was expecting you to say they would be more open the idea of fablabs throughout the area or that there are more engineering jobs there :)
19:45  * ybit figured such jobs would be closer to the larger cities
19:46 < UtopiahGHML> I said before that "SP-Curitiba-Florianopolis in the industrial/economical core"
19:46 < ybit> ah
19:46 < ybit> my apologies
19:48 < ybit> florianopolis certainly is appealing to the eyes, and as a bonus, doesn't have a large statue of jesus hovering over the city, constantly taunting and tempting me to shoot a rocket toward it
19:49 < UtopiahGHML> In Brazil, the most widespread form of gated community is called "condomínio fechado" (closed housing estate) and is the object of desire of the upper classes. Such a place is a small town with its own infrastructure (backup power supply, sanitation, and security guards). The purpose of such a community is to protect its residents from outside violence. The same philosophy is seen on closed buildings and most s
19:50 < ybit> strange how the conversaton goes from raw food to blowing up jesus statues ;P
19:52 < UtopiahGHML> condomínio fechado were pretty weird really
19:52 < UtopiahGHML> one time I participate to some special voodoo ceremony
19:52 < UtopiahGHML> and we did it in the poor country side after picking up some people in gatted community
19:52 < UtopiahGHML> mix of very poor and very rich few miles away
19:53 < UtopiahGHML> gathered together to have some weird religious custom originated in Africa
19:53 < UtopiahGHML> and... a little white guy or 2 there...
19:53 < UtopiahGHML> fuck, I hope they don't control me since with sacred voodoo dolls!
19:54 < fenn> i believe the term is 'unholy'
19:54 < UtopiahGHML> sorry
19:54 < UtopiahGHML> unholy fuck, I hope they don't control me since with sacred voodoo dolls!
19:58 < kanzure> "I believe Dr. Bowyers is making vast strides in engineering!" why'd I join the stupid cosmic engineers mailing list
19:58 < kanzure> "we believe in warm glow fuzzy koodles outwards expansion help people waaah"
19:58 < bkero> So I just decided that I want to use vimperator full-time.  It'll even make me to learn vim better. :)
19:58 < kanzure> alfjdalkfjadolfjka
19:59 < kanzure> firefox .. tabs. it fails. :(
19:59 < bkero> Working fine for me.
19:59 < kanzure> at 40
19:59 < bkero> At 53
19:59 < kanzure> Leave it running for a few days, do your normal routine, don't close things, see what it's like at 100, 200, and so on
19:59 < kanzure> you'll see.
19:59 < bkero> It's been running for over a month
19:59 < kanzure> at 53
19:59 < bkero> Yes
20:00 < kanzure> I just said 100, 200, 300
20:00 < kanzure> why doesn't anybody listen to me
20:00 < bkero> I've been up to about 80 with no discernable difference.
20:00 < bkero> Maybe it's due to the good seek times on my SSD though.
20:01 < kanzure> I just said 100, 200, 300
20:01 < kanzure> not 80
20:01 < fenn> hey i thought emacs was the text editor with a web browser in it
20:01 < kanzure> why doesn't anybody listen to me
20:02 < UtopiahGHML> (communication problem detected)
20:02 < fenn> hold still for transcranial implant
20:03 < bkero> emacs is a text editor with a EVERYTHING in it
20:04 < UtopiahGHML> Vim rules
20:04 < nsh> Quiet.
20:04 < bkero> UtopiahGHML: try vimperator <3
20:05 < nsh> it's like arguing over which is the better kind of column, ionic or doric
20:05 < UtopiahGHML> bkero: thanks but Ive been in #vimperator for a while now
20:06 < bkero> :)
20:07 < UtopiahGHML> have you done any small script or command for it?
20:08 < kanzure> why doesn't bkero listen to anything that's going on
20:08 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML and ybit have been talking about vimperator for the past hour
20:08 < kanzure> I'm seriously questioning bkero's ability to read
20:08 < UtopiahGHML> hey kanzure , you should try Firefox
20:09 < kanzure> http://www.mirekw.com/ca/mjcell/mjcell.html '   Mirek's Java Cellebration (MJCell) is a Java applet that allows playing 300+ Cellular Automata rules and 1400+ patterns. It can play rules from 13 CA rules families: Generations, Life, Vote, Weighted Life, Rule tables, Cyclic CA, 1D totalistic, 1D binary, Neumann binary, General binary, Margolus neighborhood, Larger than Life, and some of the User DLLs. It allows also to experiment with own rules. '
20:09 < kanzure> god
20:09 < kanzure> I feel like I'm talking to brick walls
20:09 < bkero> I think I mentioned it first
20:09 < UtopiahGHML> =]
20:09 < ybit> awesome wm, xmonad, and the rest of minimalist setups are nice, but what about consistency and integration offered by kde, not to mention nepomuk 
20:09 < UtopiahGHML> lol
20:10 < bkero> 01:29 < ybit> before long you will be using awesome wm with firefox and vimperator :)
20:10 < bkero> 22:49 < ybit> for the browser, you really might want to try vimperator+firefox if you are using a tiled wm [kanzure]
20:10 < bkero> 19:10 < bkero> vimperator
20:10 < bkero> 19:13 < bkero> Have you looked into tab navigation through vimperator?
20:10 < bkero> 19:15  * ybit has mentioned it two too many times (vimperator)
20:10 < bkero> (sorry I don't date-stamp)
20:10 < UtopiahGHML> case sensitive?
20:11 < ybit> it's addicting indeed, but i have switched switch back and forth several times
20:12 < ybit> mostly, when i am fed up with remember what keyboard commands do what
20:12 < bkero> UtopiahGHML: Guess you mentioned it 8 minutes before me :)
20:12 < ybit> remembering* ...and just want to get things done quicker
20:13 < ybit> depends on my mood too :)
20:13 < bkero> Ok, I'm up to 190 tabs.  Let's see how long firefox 3.0.1 will last.
20:14 < kanzure> bkero: of content pages or just blank tabks?
20:14 < kanzure> *tabks
20:14 < kanzure> **tabs
20:14 < UtopiahGHML> how many tabs with Flash content?
20:14 < kanzure> Firefox 2 was doing 10,000 blank tabs easily
20:14 < ybit> UtopiahGHML: interesting info on brazil you presented, though i'm not sure where voodoo ties in with it :)
20:14 < kanzure> heh
20:14 < bkero> kanzure: I did a google search and loaded every link on 18 pages plus what I had open in another window
20:15 < kanzure> wait, aren't you on some ridiculously suped up system?
20:15 < bkero> uh
20:15 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: slave trade, africa, culture, voodoo, getting in?
20:15 < bkero> I'm on a Pentium 4 3.4GHz with 3GB RAM
20:15 < kanzure> 3.4 GHz with 3 GB RAM
20:15 < kanzure> yeah
20:15 < ybit> ah, the history, i see
20:15 < bkero> It's running at 2.4GHz now
20:15 < kanzure> I'd say you're cheating :)
20:15 < bkero> DUDE ITS A PENTIUM 4
20:15 < ybit> UtopiahGHML ^
20:15 < kanzure> ehh
20:15 < kanzure> okay, handicap points
20:16 < UtopiahGHML> ybit: history is a useful tool if you want to bet in a country ;)
20:16 < bkero> Firefox is eating ~23-35% cpu, 350MB
20:16 < ybit> okay, let's take it to the extreme, bkero: 15k tabs for 40 days!
20:16 < kanzure> bkero: Tell me when it starts to eat into other stuff you're doing. That's when I get interested.
20:17 < kanzure> I've noticed sometimes browsers taking up large percentages of CPU processing time but otherwise not screwing up everything else
20:17 < kanzure> but other times, not so much
20:17 < bkero> I've got gkrellm running on top, so we'll see when it does something
20:17 < UtopiahGHML> with 10% java applets, 40% ajax, 10% flash, ... (not being exclusive too, etc...)
20:17 < bkero> 21% cpu, 243 processes, 4 users, says gkrellm
20:20 < ybit> nice screenshot kanzure, anyone know of something similar to share.opml.org ?
20:21 < kanzure> yes, a directory on a server ...
20:21 < kanzure> just collect people's OPML files :)
20:22 < kanzure> export w/ FOAF XML
20:22 < ybit> TOUCHE!
20:23 < kanzure> heh
20:23 < kanzure> (also, "touchy" is just as appropriate)
20:23 < ybit> figured i'd get in on the caps lock since everyone uses them these days
20:23 < ybit> haha
20:23 < ybit> but, wtf: http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-01-02-shareyouropml.png
20:23 < ybit> windows!? srsly?
20:23 < kanzure> also, the solution to dealing with tabbing might be to consider graph compartmentalization, each browser session is a traversal of a graph, through the path and the overall connectivity into a pot, or a python egg, and just stash that away somewhere in your tree full o' nuts
20:23 < kanzure> ybit: computers were down :(
20:24 < kanzure> had to steal usage time on my brother's.
20:24  * kanzure goes off to sniff liquid nitrogen or something
20:24 < ybit> :P
20:24 < kanzure> ybit: wait, that wasn't windows in share-your-opml methinks
20:24 < bkero> kanzure: why not load firefox profiles depending on tree?
20:25 < bkero> That would cut down on the sqllite slowness
20:25 < ybit> yeah yeah, wrong link
20:26 < ybit> i was thinking of http://heybryan.org/shots/June8th02007_browsers_SonyVAIO_PCVRS510.PNG
20:59 < willPow3r> my ip has been banned from freenode for over a week now because i ran tor as an exit node for less than 2 hours
21:01 < fenn> you should talk to a staff member
21:04 < willPow3r> where can i find one of those?
21:06 < fenn> i guess there arent any logged in and wearing their staff hat right now (/stats p should show them i think)
21:07 < bkero> ask christel, she loves that ;)
21:07 < bkero> Actually email kline@freenode.net
21:07 < bkero> I set up that mail alias for RT for them :)
21:11 < willPow3r> hmm. kline?
21:11 < bkero> That's the message it should have given you when it banned you.
21:13 < fenn> A k-line is a line in an ircd.conf file that can be used to prevent certain people, or people from certain computers or networks, from connecting to that server.
21:13 < willPow3r> oh.
21:14 < willPow3r> so i actually have to send an email?
21:14 < willPow3r> thats so... 90's
21:14 < bkero> It goes into RT, and you get assigned a ticket.
21:15 < bkero> Then they see your tor gateway is down, and take you out of the lists.
21:15 < willPow3r> efnet has a website that you can go to and input your ip addy to have it removed automatically
21:16 < willPow3r> but i guess that network is more trusting/advanced than freenode
21:16 < bkero> Freenode is pretty 90s
21:17 < willPow3r> yeah, very pre-1337
21:17 < bkero> The people who run it are cool though
21:17 < bkero> I mean they name the nodes after science fiction authors...and
21:18 < bkero> http://www.openverse.com/~dtinker/agalmics.html
21:18 < bkero> The guy who started freenode wrote that.
21:22 < willPow3r> k, sent it off, we'll see what happens
21:34 < willPow3r> Let's briefly compare photosynthesis with cellular respiration.
21:34 < willPow3r> Both processes involve redox reactions. During cellular respiration,
21:34 < willPow3r> energy is released from sugar when electrons asso,nated
21:34 < willPow3r> with hydrogen are transported by carriers to oxygen,
21:34 < willPow3r> forming water as a by-product.
21:35 < willPow3r> biology is either amazingly fascinating or infinitely boring. can't tell.
21:40 < willPow3r> bkero, thanks for the help re: kline
21:40 < willPow3r> they took me off kline
21:40 < bkero> willPow3r: no problem
21:41 < fenn> willPow3r: you just need more pictures:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=E8NHcQesYl8
21:42 < willPow3r> fenn, interesting, i never thought to look on utube
21:42 < willPow3r> utoob rather
21:44 < fenn> i particularly like part 2
21:45 < fenn> sure beats those stupid diagrams with circles and arrows
21:46 < fenn> more of the same series: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nl8pSlonmA0
21:56 < kanzure> Guy who started freenode is dead. :( Niven I mean.
21:59 < kanzure> willPow3r: You can also try http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/ and either the one that has 'metabolism' or 'respiration' in it, or http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/notes/output.html
22:00  * kanzure wonders where all of the youthful energy from /school/Biology/ went.
22:01 < kanzure> it was something about /having/ to do all of the work
22:01 < kanzure> almost a fear.
22:01 < willPow3r> maybe you're delusional about your past exuberance
22:01 < kanzure> but look! the files! :)
22:01 < kanzure> they're right there
22:03 < willPow3r> files don't lie, as they say
22:03 < kanzure> what?
22:05 < willPow3r> oh, thats photos. n/m
22:05 < willPow3r> pictures*
22:06 < kanzure> what?
22:06 < kanzure> hrm
22:06 < willPow3r> you've never heard the saying "pictures never lie?"
22:07 < kanzure> bkero: the problem with multiple sessions is this: http://heybryan.org/projects/social/sessdb/files/ ... you're back to the tab problem again. Soon the directory will be too large to support much. (And uh, for the record, that hasn't been updated since mid 2007. Obviously I've had more than a year to accumulate more session files.)
22:08 < bkero> Er, are sessions = profiles?
22:09 < kanzure> sort of.
22:09 < kanzure> saved sets of tabs
22:09 < kanzure> plus profile information
22:15 < fenn> http://www.molecularmovies.com/showcase/index.html
22:17 < kanzure> time for a link dump
22:17 < kanzure> I knew I collected thousands of bookmarks on this for a reason :)
22:18 < fenn> noooo
22:21 < kanzure> http://www.laporte.isd.esc4.net/campuses/lphs/science/kicklighterr/preap/cell/respiration.htm http://home.comcast.net/~john.kimball1/BiologyPages/C/CellularRespiration.html http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/cellresp.htm http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/atp.htm http://www.utm.edu/departments/cens/biology/faculty_pages/respirat.htm http://homepages.ius.edu/GKIRCHNE/Glycolysis.htm http://projects.edtech.sandi.net/miramesa/Organelles/chemce
22:22 < kanzure> also, http://dnatube.com/
22:23 < kanzure> the atp.htm is the 'cell respiration song' :)
22:35 < kanzure> grumble grumble
22:35 < kanzure> I should get around to fixing the python scripts that were exporting my ADR file into flat file directories
22:57 < willPow3r> kanzure, did that chinese materials list downloader thing to work?
22:57 < kanzure> yes :)
22:59 < kanzure> I wonder if you could fit a foundry on the back of Iron Man. 
23:06 < willPow3r> are you going to publish the information?
23:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/
23:07 < kanzure> matweb.zip
23:07 < kanzure> I suggest you yell at me to convert it into MatML first
23:07 < kanzure> before downloading the 480 MB zip file
23:30 < willPow3r> what does it open with?
23:30 < kanzure> presently it's a hunk of HTML
23:41 < willPow3r> all their data was in html format?
23:43 < kanzure> willPow3r: yeah :(
23:44 < willPow3r> well, they *are* an industrializing nation
23:44 < willPow3r> so they have an excuse