--- Day changed Tue Nov 18 2008
00:03 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh
01:59 < drazak> hm
01:59 < drazak> does one enzyme build the complemenatary strand of dna(polymerase?) or do 4?
02:01 < kanzure> What do you mean, one per nucleotide? No.
02:02 < kanzure> There's a few enzymes involved in making the complementary strand of DNA, one being polymerase, yes.
02:02 < kanzure> There's also a few others involved at the replication fork, for instance.
02:02 < kanzure> Okazake fragments are something else to consider.
02:03 < kanzure> For PCR, you just need DNA polymerase.
02:03 < drazak> not talking about for pcr
02:03 < drazak> I'm talking about for sequencing
02:03 < drazak> hm
02:04 < drazak> PPi as a byproduct
02:04 < drazak> need to find some sort of flourescent/lumonescent dye that activated with PPi, and grabs it up before anythning else
02:15 < kanzure_> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8640306924766056110 "Star Trek: New Voyages". I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.
02:34 < ferrouswheel> drazak: "DNA polymerase epsilon  (Pol epsilon ) from Saccharomyces cerevisiae consists of four subunits (Pol2, Dpb2, Dpb3, and Dpb4) and is essential for chromosomal DNA replication."
02:34 < ferrouswheel> is this what you were asking about?
02:34 < drazak> to some degree
02:35 < drazak> 4 subunits huh
02:35 < ferrouswheel> not sure if all polymerase has a 4 subunit quaternary structure... but at least for S. cerevisiae it does
02:37 < kanzure> If you're interested in the subunit structure of polymerase, I have about 20 PDFs on that on the server:
02:37 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/polymerase/
02:42 < drazak> hm
02:42 < drazak> well, I wonder how different the energies are released by the addition of different subunits
02:43 < kanzure> Huh?
02:43 < kanzure> Subunits are parts of the structure of polymerase. So what energy-releasal process are you talking about?
02:44 -!- kanzure changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing http://heybryan.org/
02:47 < drazak> oh, not that one
02:47 < drazak> when making a dna strand
02:47 < drazak> the breaking off of PPi from ATP/CTP/GTP/TTP
02:47 < drazak> I wonder if it's different between them
02:48 < drazak> I mean, they're ester linked diphosphate groups... butttt
02:48 < drazak> whm
02:49 < kanzure> For notes on the structure of DNA, I have a 20 MB HTML file over in http://heybryan.org/school/Physiology/
02:50 < drazak> I'm just thinking alloud here
02:51 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/school/Physiology/03-29-07,%20Digestive%20system.html <-- Not DNA, but still. Impressive, no?
02:52 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/notes/01-24-07,%20Deoxyribonucleic%20acid.html
02:52 < kanzure_> Ah, there we go.
02:52 < kanzure> Scroll down for the goods.
02:53 < drazak> I dunno if what I'm thinking off would be there
02:53 < kanzure> Worth a glance.
02:56 < kanzure_> Ugh. This was 2005? http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/notes/11-11-05,%20The%20Cell%20Cycle.html 
02:56 < kanzure_> I feel old.
02:58 < drazak> kanzure_: nothing that I need
02:58 < drazak> ah well
02:58 < drazak> I'll research it tomorrow
02:59 < drazak> write what I'm looking for in my notes
04:44 < gene> you there kanzure?
04:58 < gene> can you hear me now Kanzure?
05:50 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn
06:04 < fenn> gosh does this guy really thing going back to the moon will require training kindergartners in science and math?
06:24 < fenn> haha they're talking about hardware based unit testing in emc (moving motors around and pressing switches n stuff)
08:19 < UtopiahGHML> http://markorodriguez.com/Research.html
08:19 < UtopiahGHML> Synthetic Cognition through Petascale Models of the Primate Visual 
08:20 < UtopiahGHML> Cortex, Neno/Fhat: A Semantic Network Programming Language and Virtual Machine Architecture, CDMS: Collective Decision Making Systems, ...
09:56  * UtopiahGHML loves today Dilbert's cartoon :>
12:24 < drazak> kanzure_: do you know if there are enzymes that add only one kind of dNTPs?
12:37 < kanzure> drazak: That's what those papers are about.
12:38 < kanzure> Specifically, not really. There are some polymerases that you can mutate a bit, but it's hard to do selection experiments on a "retarded polymerase".
12:41 < kanzure> from Michel - 
12:41 < kanzure> http://thingiverse.com/
12:42 < kanzure> Stupid. Click the 'upload' button .. they allow any file type. blah..
12:47 < nsh> ARGHGHGHGHGH: http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081117/full/news.2008.1235.html
12:48 < nsh> "The search for genome 'dark matter' moves closer"
12:48 < nsh> *head against table, repeatedly*
13:06 < kanzure> nsh: Have you ever published?
13:07 < kanzure> nsh: The reason I ask is because I'd like you to go over a partial draft that I'm submitting to biomedcentral, the BMS Systems Biology journal.
13:07  * nsh hasn't, but will read through anyway if you'd like
13:08 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Towards_automatic_generation_of_linear_genetic_regulatory_networks_via_biobricks
13:08 < kanzure> Apparently a two-page technical "Towards blah blah blah" paper is acceptable and quite commonly appears in that journal.
13:09 < kanzure> second page can very well just be screenshots of cool shit :)
13:09  * kanzure goes down to eat.
13:13 < nsh> i'm not sure you can use the phrase "pathetic web interfaces" in a journal
13:14 < nsh> but you should try anyway
13:25 < kanzure> Heh.
13:27 < kanzure> Rawwrrr
13:27 < kanzure> I hate these people.
13:28 < kanzure> New inbox email: "[agi] My prospective plan to neutralize AGI and other dangerous technologies..."
13:28 < UtopiahGHML> ??
13:28 < kanzure> that's like saying "my plan to neutralize bacteria"
13:28 < kanzure> Yeah, good luck there buddy!
13:28 < kanzure> "my plan to neutralize electrons'
13:29 < UtopiahGHML> Id like to read that actually, Dilbert's cartoon today was funny but I think I can laugh again 
13:29 < kanzure>  Wrong, wrong approach.
13:29 < kanzure> Uhm, it's on the AGI mailing list if you want.
13:30 < UtopiahGHML> pretty bold to post that on the official mailing list of the guys building the tool itself :P
13:31  * UtopiahGHML reading http://www.mail-archive.com/agi@v2.listbox.com/msg15343.html
13:33 < UtopiahGHML> this is definitely a former cracker with solid experience, his notions regarding security seem flawless...
13:33 < UtopiahGHML> [I]
13:33 < UtopiahGHML> (that's the Ironical [I] tag for those who wonder)
13:35 < UtopiahGHML> wtf is this a kind of joke or is the guy serious...
13:38 < UtopiahGHML> Im pretty sure the guy will lock himself out of this very website anyway, funny.
13:54 < kanzure> The problem though is that these people tend to be serious about this.
13:54 < kanzure> Not his specific idea in this instance, but the subject of the thread itself plays on a long-deep fear in the AGI community.
13:55 < kanzure> "Oh teh noes, AGI will rule the world wtf are we going to do? I know, I know! Let's have Eliezer Yudkowsky build an AI *first* that is **inherently NOT EVIL*** that will be a world dictator and stop all other AGI/AI projects from emerging!"
13:57 < UtopiahGHML> isn't it why most makes donations?
16:34 < kanzure_-> Back.
17:03 < kanzure_-> http://www.geocaching.com/ "find the money" game.
17:18 < nsh> did i ever mention
17:18 < nsh> that Eliezer is a fucking idiot?
17:18 < nsh> that may not have come up before
17:18 < nsh> so, just putting it out there
17:20 < nsh> oh wow
17:20 < nsh> i feel so much stupider for reading that agi post
17:20 < nsh> thanks :-/
17:41 < kanzure_-> fenn: http://code.google.com/p/pyglet/source/browse/trunk/experimental/glxgears.py <-- another reason not to use this is the giant gaping "TODO/FIXME" where the meat of the code would actually be ..
17:41 < bkero> lol
17:42 < kanzure_-> http://maven.smith.edu/~orourke/240/gears.py
17:43 < bkero> uh
17:43 < bkero> doesn't exist
17:43 < bkero> Gotta kill it
17:43 < kanzure_-> does for me .. wtf? :)
17:44 < bkero> I hold cwn ctrl+c, and it gives me tracebacks, but that's it
17:45 < kanzure_-> Ah, I see what you mean.
17:45 < kanzure_-> apt-get install python-opengl
18:24 -!- percent is now known as jihaad
19:04 < kanzure_-> http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post701317-5.html drop-in compatible with import opengl stuffs? hrm..
19:06 < kanzure_-> https://svn.zib.de/lenne3d/lib/pyopengl/3.0.0a5/OpenGL/Demo/NeHe/lesson42.py close enough.
19:07 < kanzure_-> All hail NeHe.
19:52 < kanzure_-> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-18_glxgears.py.png <- Now accepts graphsynth output (well, not really. There's an intermediate CSV file.)
19:52 < kanzure_-> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/gears.py
19:53 < kanzure_-> uh
19:53 < kanzure_-> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/gears/gears.py
19:54 < kanzure_-> with other stuff in the dir.
19:56 < kanzure_-> git clone git://repo.or.cz/pythoncad.git
19:57 < kanzure_-> looks like I'll be using VTK http://www.nabble.com/CAD.py-td20270104.html
19:57 < kanzure_-> http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/VTK/Writing_VTK_files_using_python
19:58 < kanzure_-> http://cens.ioc.ee/projects/pyvtk/
19:59 < kanzure_-> http://cens.ioc.ee/cgi-bin/cvsweb/python/pyvtk/examples/example1.py?rev=1.3 <--- not bad.
20:06 < kanzure_-> http://rosettadesigngroup.com/blog/ Macromolecular Modeling Blog, by way of bbb@bioinformatics.org mailing list
20:07 < kanzure_-> gene: Welch 2.224 from 630 to 745 is a viewing of the PBS docu "The Atom Smashers"
20:23 < ybit> http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/11/seaweed-fungus-and-algae-biofuel.html
20:24 < bkero> kanzure_-: You said I needed to write you an email or something to get some algae samples?
20:25 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
20:26 < bkero> My digestor, growth tubes, and co2 supply are all ready. :)
20:29 < kanzure_-> bkero: I was going to make a trip down to the lab today, so maybe I'll magically remember.
20:30 < bkero> Heh
20:30 < kanzure_-> ybit: Apparently I'm attending a biofuel/algae conference tomorrow.
20:30 < kanzure_-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Earth-crossing_asteroids <- So kind of Wikipedia/lazyweb to do our hard work for us.
20:31 < kanzure_-> bkero: How do I go about mailing liquids?
20:31 < kanzure_-> Uh.
20:31 < kanzure_-> Hrm.
20:32 < bkero> Goto the mailing place on campus
20:32 < bkero> They should know the procedure
20:33 < bkero> Or call them
20:33 < kanzure_-> Uusally this requires MTAs, material transfer agreements.
20:33 < kanzure_-> And usually this means that I have to have the professor's signature.
20:33 < bkero> Which both our universities have :)
20:33 < bkero> o
20:33 < kanzure_-> yeah ..
20:33 < bkero> I just have an on-campus job, so I use that to mail anything I need.
20:33 < kanzure_-> so google me up a "guide to transferring biological agents"
20:34 < kanzure_-> so do I of course :
20:34 < kanzure_-> )
20:34 < kanzure_-> multiple jobs it seems
20:34 < kanzure_-> wtf am I doing here
20:34  * kanzure_- goes
21:36 < gene> so kanzure, what do you think largest feature size on a microchip should be
21:39 < gene> could you get away with 4 micrometer feature sizes?
21:41 < kanzure> Why do you need it to fit within the category of micro-chip?
21:46 < gene> would you 4 micrometer be ok if you wanted to make a microchip
21:47 < kanzure> I don't know what you are asking.
21:47 < kanzure> Are you asking about the ontological basis of calling something a microchip?
21:47 < gene> no
21:48 < kanzure> i.e., "if it has a 4 micrometer feature, is it still classified as a microchip?"
21:48 < gene> Ok
21:49 < kanzure> Then what are you asking?
21:49 < gene> I could conceivably make a micropositioner accurate to 4 micrometers
21:50 < kanzure> gene: Remember, the original microprocessor people were drawing circuits in wax with sharp sticks from trees.
21:50 < kanzure> (Actually, with forks or the opposite ends of pens, probably.)
21:51 < gene> and I could conceivably use this micropositioner to do electrochemical  etching
21:51 < gene> dag
21:51 < gene> dang
21:53 < gene> did I mention I could conceivably make this micropositioner with legos
21:54 < kanzure> I think you should start by trying to make the original setups that the Intel guys were using in the 50s?
21:55 < drazak> tubes?!
21:55 < gene> no
21:55 < gene> no
21:55 < gene> So anyway
21:55 < gene> what do I need to do to do electrochemical etchingn
21:56 < kanzure> No, not tubes.
21:56 < kanzure> They weren't using micropositioners and were still able to make circuits.
21:56 < kanzure> Pretty small circuits too.
21:56 < kanzure> And without ridiculously expensive masks.
21:56 < fenn> just so you know, VTK is really hard to understand
21:56 < fenn> (supposedly it would be easier if you buy the book)
21:57 < kanzure> I don't know. It will require some searching.
21:57 < kanzure> I might have some information here:
21:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/semiconductor.html
21:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/semiconductors.html (one of those)
21:57 < kanzure> fenn: robogami2007 is pretty neat
21:57 < kanzure> yay psychic powers
21:57 < kanzure> yay budgets..
21:58 < kanzure_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIFA_PiDn7k robogami
22:00 < kanzure> I wonder about grammar rules for origami.
22:01 < fenn> let's see it do a crane
22:04 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/origami/ <- check the Introducing robotic origami folding paper
22:07 < gene> can't find the intel thing
22:09 < kanzure> ooh.
22:10 < kanzure> fenn: see also the 'Constituting' paper in that dir.
22:10 < kanzure> it has a data struct for origami
22:13 < gene> does anyone know of any cheap, highly accurate linear actuators?
22:14 < gene> don't CD players use linear actuators to move the laser pickup?
22:39 < fenn> define cheap and accurate in quantitative values
22:41 < gene> cheap as in preferably under $20
22:42 < fenn> in qty 1?
22:43 < fenn> backlash or no backlash
22:43 < gene> what's backlash?
22:43 < fenn> something you need to be aware of if you're using a linear actuator
22:45 < gene> oh yeah
22:45 < gene> no backlash
22:46 < fenn> not gonna happen unless you DIY
22:46 < fenn> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/
22:47 < fenn> you mind telling me what this is for? i dont like doing engineering in the dark
22:48 < gene> electrochemical machining mill
22:49 < fenn> well, all the standard CNC stuff applies then, so off to CNCzone you go
22:50 < gene> indeed
22:50 < fenn> you forgot to mention the corrosive resistance requirement
22:50 < kanzure_> http://www.langorigami.com/art/monumental/monumental.php4 monumental origami
22:50 < kanzure_> webEOS
22:50  * kanzure_ can't find webEOS
22:50 < gene> the actuator doesn't need to work in a corrosive environment 
22:50 < kanzure_> hah, second to last image
22:50 < gene> just the toolhead
22:50 < kanzure_> guy pulling giant sheet of paper
22:50 < kanzure_> hehe
22:51 < gene> now if we could only make a paper folding machine that folds paper we'd be set
22:52 < fenn> is that an ice skating rink?
22:53 < fenn> oh nm it's just a regular floor
22:53 < gene> fenn
22:53 < fenn> gene
22:53 < gene> I am trying to make a small mill
22:53 < gene> a very small mill
22:53 < fenn> so is 90% of the rest of the geek populace
22:53 < fenn> with varying degrees of seriousness
22:54 < kanzure> Manual folding is a good start.. then a machine.
22:54 < fenn> i dont know where people get the idea that making stuff is cheap and easy even if you dont know what you're doing
22:55 < gene> http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cd4.htm
22:55 < gene> cd players
22:55 < fenn> good luck
22:56 < fenn> have you ever actually taken apart a cd player?
22:57 < fenn> there's no "sweet delectable linear actuator module" that you can just pluck out
22:57 < gene> well
22:57 < kanzure> fenn: it's annoying, isn't it.
22:57 < fenn> kanzure: i intend to change this
22:58 < gene> it looks like cd players also have some strange stabilizing mechanism
22:58 < fenn> it's to make up for the inadequacies of the cheap rack and pinion drive
22:58 < gene> well they do
22:59 < gene> using magnets
22:59 < fenn> and notice that it moves a tiny lens on a tiny lever arm
23:00 < fenn> 1 micron accuracy over 1mm travel isnt that difficult
23:00 < kanzure> do tell?
23:00 < fenn> of course they calibrate the shit out of them at the factory with expensive equipment
23:01 < gene> well
23:01 < gene> cd's can also self calibrate I believe
23:01 < kanzure> you speak in tongues. 
23:01 < kanzure> the intention to change this makes up for inadequacies in evolutionary behavior to jump on magic bullets and bandwagons?
23:02 < kanzure> what?
23:02 < fenn> a cd is basically a giant pseudorandom linear encoder
23:02 < fenn> wrapped in a spiral
23:02 < gene> well
23:02 < gene> I'm not an expert
23:03 < gene> but CD laser pickups have more than one pixel
23:03 < kanzure_> eric hunting just posted to om about the 'unimat' in germany: http://www.thecooltool.com/produktgruppe.php?language=e&status=20&sh_id=15&ptitel=Unimat+Classic
23:04 < gene> and might be able to track the pixels
23:04 < fenn> ugh
23:04 < fenn> unimat just won't die
23:05 < gene> what?
23:05 < gene> what's so bad about unimat?
23:05 < gene> it's small right?
23:05 < fenn> it's sloppily constructed
23:06 < fenn> it's also a lot smaller than it looks
23:06 < gene> ok
23:06 < gene> you just got me very interested
23:06 < fenn> it's woodworking crap
23:07 < gene> is it a mill?
23:07 < fenn> no
23:07 < gene> can it be?
23:08 < fenn> i'm just going to say no
23:09 < fenn> i like the 'reconfigurable machine tool' idea, but they just haven't done it
23:10 < kanzure> huh, robotorigami got to slashdot.
23:11 < gene> have you heard about kulibin?
23:11 < gene> some russian milling machine that can be reconfigured into anything
23:11 < kanzure_> http://www.origamiboulder.com/
23:12 < fenn> i only see stuff about the watch maker
23:12 < gene> huh?
23:12 < fenn> ivan kulibin 1767
23:13 < gene> no
23:15 < kanzure_> bioknoppix - for the molecular biologist in you. hm.
23:16 < gene> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mntc.ru%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en
23:17 < gene> so how do you get sub micron accuracy on a cnc machine?
23:18 < fenn> uh, glass scales i guess
23:18 < fenn> and preloaded ballscrews
23:18 < gene> what are preloaded ball screws?
23:19 < fenn> the balls push on both sides of the screw thread with a certain amount of "preload" force
23:19 < fenn> one way to do this is to use oversize balls
23:19 < fenn> another way is to use two nuts pushing against each other 
23:22 < kanzure_> http:/www.score.cs.tsukuba.ac.jp/webeos .. This is why you go open source. Your server dies and everybody mutters your name to damn it.
23:22 < kanzure> hm
23:22 < kanzure> interesting
23:23 < kanzure> So there's a big thing going on about the whole cutting-off-analog-television broadcasting.
23:23 < kanzure> "We urge you to convert ASAP .. do not wait until you get static."
23:23 < kanzure> because then they can't reach them :)
23:23 < fenn> webeos is some kind of origami thing?
23:23 < kanzure> They don't want to lose viewers.
23:24 < kanzure> <quick link to Paul's link to the 10,000 hours link re: TV>
23:24 < kanzure> yes
23:24 < fenn> yeah yeah 2000 wikipedias a yaear
23:24 < kanzure> AJAX crap, so say the papers
23:24 < kanzure> backend is some stupid mathematica notebook file
23:24 < kanzure> but they have an api for folding and so on
23:24 < kanzure> which now that I think about it is probably kind of obvious
23:25 < kanzure> fold(a,b) where there's an arc splitting sides A and B
23:25 < gene> what if I used air bearings?
23:25 < kanzure> hm, maybe each fold() call adds a new surface to the stack 
23:25 < kanzure> this isn't quite the same thing with origami that we were playing around with in blender of course
23:25 < fenn> heh i like their crane animation with the flapping wings: http://www2.score.cs.tsukuba.ac.jp/score-group-homepage/view?set_language=en
23:25 < kanzure> that was 3D object -> mesh it -> to origami diagram
23:26 < fenn> that was papercraft, not origami
23:27 < kanzure> oh right
23:27 < kanzure> tape edges here, or something
23:27 < fenn> yes lots of taping and lots of cutting
23:29 < gene> hey why not make a paper cutting machine out of paper?
23:29 < gene> for printing out papercraft
23:30 < kanzure> gene: just out of curiosity, did you see the news blitz about launching origami planes from space shuttles?
23:30 < gene> yes
23:30 < gene> yes I did
23:30 < fenn> yay space pollution!
23:30 < kanzure> well, in all fairness, it was supposedly towards earth
23:30 < gene> you know I once contemplated making a  paper airplane with a jato on it
23:30 < fenn> i wonder, did the astronauts bring them up folded or did they have to fold in space?
23:31 < kanzure> hm.
23:31 < gene> I believe they brought it up folded
23:31 < kanzure> isn't that kind of redundant?
23:32 < fenn> which, the astronauts or the cranes? :)
23:32 < gene> the plane to be launched from space
23:33 < fenn> a paper plane full of paper cranes
23:33 < kanzure> oooh, astronauts lose a bag of tools in space .. I'm amazed this made the news, but glad I guess. (television news)
23:33 < gene> the cool thing is is that it is so light it will withstand reentry
23:33 < kanzure> what's the glide ratio?
23:33 < fenn> how do you lose a bag of tools? arent they tethered on at all times?
23:33 < gene> dunno
23:34 < gene> no
23:34 < gene> AFK
23:34 < kanzure> yeah .. 
23:34 < kanzure> gene: glide ratio is just how many feet horizontal per vertical lost.
23:36 < fenn> no mention of what will happen to the bag of tools..
23:39 < kanzure> hm, so I might as well just make up my own API for origami folding.
23:39 < kanzure> it looks like the SCORE guys were doing what I was doing with supermetal, with specific 'points of interest' on the shapes (or in this case, the 2D surfaces)
23:39 < kanzure> so given a square piece of paper, the four corners are given labels, and then you say fold(A,B) where A and B are opposite corners perhaps
23:40 < kanzure> I guess there's also half-folds, blah
23:40 < fenn> you could fold at any arbitrary location
23:40 < kanzure> but anyway, given a full fold(A,B) where A and B are opposite to each other, plus a crease, 
23:40 < kanzure> well
23:40 < kanzure> I think what I'm trying to do is come up with a correlation of what each function adds to the list of possible places to fold at
23:41 < kanzure> but you're right, you could just randomly fold anywhere.
23:43 < kanzure> I'm also wondering about mechanical contraptions made from origami
23:43 < kanzure> hopping frogs are boring.
23:43 < fenn> theo janssen mechanism?
23:44  * kanzure googles
23:44 < kanzure> oh
23:44 < kanzure> that too
23:44 < kanzure> hm. this looks like it's straight out of hod's videos.
23:44 < fenn> there was a papercraft version
23:46 < gene> I don't know what the glide ratio is kanzure
23:46 < gene> but I heard it is fairly high
23:46 < kanzure> It would be fun to see what other mechanical motions are possible.
23:47 < gene> I think theo jansen used a GA to optimize that mechanism
23:47 < gene> which explain's its similarity to hod's videos
23:55 < gene> oh
23:55 < gene> the magnets in the CD player might not be for stabilization
23:55 < gene> http://www.physics.udel.edu/~watson/scen103/cd-focusing.html