--- Day changed Sun Dec 07 2008
00:02 < fenn> not particularly
00:03 < fenn> why?
00:03 < kanzure> the Afghanistan fablab has nobody running it
00:04 < fenn> nobody?
00:04 < fenn> what about the afghanis?
00:05 < kanzure> well, Amy's running it, but she's $29k in the hole
00:05 < fenn> ouch
00:05 < kanzure> none of the afghanis have a clue
00:06 < kanzure> hrm, I wonder if my aunt is going to afghanistan again soon
00:06 < fenn> maybe you could hitch a ride :)
00:07 < kanzure> "Dear Dad, and everyone, I've hitched a ride to Afghanistan to join the Talhejiban. Erm. I mean the fab lab. Good bye for good."
00:07 < fenn> so, why is there a fablab in afghanistan if a) there's no money, b) no interest?
00:07 < kanzure> well
00:07 < kanzure> heh
00:07 < kanzure> communication problems
00:08 < kanzure> Todd Huffman thought that Amy Sun would run/pay for it
00:08 < kanzure> and Amy thought Todd would run/pay for it
00:08 < fenn> pay with what? isnt she a grad student?
00:08 < kanzure> is she?
00:08 < kanzure> she's paying from her pathetic savings now apparently
00:08 < fenn> er,, phd, whatever
00:09 < kanzure> you know her?
00:09 < fenn> she is the fablab sub-celebrity i guess
00:09 < fenn> no i dont know her
00:10 < kanzure> $1k/mo .. ouch. I was hoping she'd let some of us live there for free in exchange for superawesome tech labor
00:10 < fenn> rent? in afghanistan? what is the world coming to
00:10 < kanzure> well she claims that you could set up a tent on the roof easily enough
00:11 < kanzure> but that with translators, foods, etc., $1k/mo
00:12 < fenn> it doesnt really seem very sustainable
00:14 < kanzure_> "Amy Sun: frankly, i get about 5-10 people a DAY email me that say "I am willing to work for free in a fab lab somewhere cool as long as you cover my travel and expenses".
00:15 < fenn> yep i believe it
00:16 < fenn> this is part of why i still havent written my MIT grad school application
00:25 < kanzure> hm, so grants will kick in in a few months
00:25 < kanzure> before that though you'd have to float your own way. I see.
00:25 < kanzure> gene, how would you like to have a fablab?
00:26 < gene> yeah
00:26 < gene> I want 2
00:26 < kanzure> there's one in Afghanistan that would love to have you run it for $1k/mo
00:26 < gene> the more the merrier
00:26 < gene> hmmmm.....
00:26 < kanzure> it's in need of help
00:26 < gene> I don't live in afghanistan
00:26 < kanzure> you'd have to move.
00:27 < gene> I don't know
00:28 < gene> fablabs always seem to run into problems like this
00:28 < gene> I don't think I could move to afghanistan
00:30 < gene> btw I've been designing a stirling engine
00:30 < gene> the size of a business card
00:31 < gene> as my business card
00:31 < kanzure> it would be awesome if you could diagnose the STL problems with my STL file for the cross section
00:32 < kanzure> I had enough triangles but for some reason only 2 display :(
00:32 < gene> ummm... you're using STL
00:32 < kanzure> yes
00:32 < kanzure> because it needs to be in a usable 3D format
00:32 < kanzure> which is better than VTK.
00:32 < gene> I don't like STL
00:33 < gene> I like vector formats
00:34 < fenn> STL is vector, dummy
00:34 < gene> it is?
00:34 < fenn> it's triangles
00:35 < fenn> er, how that is supposed to work with a laser cutter, only the fablab people know :)
00:35 < gene> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML
00:35 < gene> how is what?
00:35 < fenn> STL -> laser
00:36 < gene> stl to laser huh?
00:36 < fenn> nevermind
00:36 < gene> we
00:36 < gene> are doing something different
00:36 < gene> STL was originally used for stereolithography
00:36 < gene> which is done with lasers
00:37 < gene> for some reason it became the default format for 3d printing
00:37 < fenn> because it's easy to read and write
00:38 < kanzure> amen to that..
00:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/
00:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/mytest.stl or something
00:39 < gene> damn I can't touch that file
00:39 < kanzure> what? why?
00:40 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/huhtest.stl is the latest one that is acting up
00:40 < gene> winblows thinks it is a certificate trust list
00:40 < gene> sertificates trust list
00:40 < gene> stl
00:42 < gene> vista apparently has crypto shell extensions
00:43 < gene> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
00:43 < gene> I think I found the problem
00:44 < gene> you drew a whole bunch of coincident triangles
00:44 < gene> that's why you only see one
00:44 < gene>   facet normal 0 0 0
00:44 < gene>    outer loop
00:44 < gene>     vertex 0 1 0
00:44 < gene>     vertex 0 1 0
00:44 < gene>     vertex 0 1 0
00:44 < gene>    endloop
00:44 < gene>   endfacet
00:44 < kanzure> No, use huhtest.stl
00:45 < gene> that's weird
00:46 < gene> do you see 3 triangles?
00:46 < gene> at least 3
00:47 < gene>  facet normal 0 0 0
00:47 < gene>    outer loop
00:47 < gene>     vertex 1 0 1
00:47 < gene>     vertex 0 1 1
00:47 < gene>    endloop
00:47 < gene> triangles have 3 vertices right?
00:47 < kanzure> um.
00:47 < kanzure> umm
00:47 < kanzure> let me check into that :)
00:49 < gene> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQGA6eZmZyg
00:49 < gene> CDi is made of fail
00:50 < kanzure> "fantasticfabrication.com" bwahah... ok, maybe not.
00:51 < gene> does it work now
00:54 < kanzure> -it would take some significant rewriting to make sure it never generates only two vertifces
00:54 < kanzure> because of the crappy way that I wrote the script
00:54 < gene> can't you just not make triangles and make lines, or squares?
00:54 < gene> anyway this is just a visualizer?
00:55 < gene> if we just need to visualize stuff why not use java or matlab?
00:55 < kanzure> because we don't want to visualize
00:56 < kanzure> we want a format that we can dump easily into openfoam
00:56 < kanzure> although visualization is an easy way to check the STL file
00:56 < kanzure> lines aren't useful in openfoam really, it has to be a meshable structure, and I think the mesher only works off of stl-like files really
00:56 < kanzure> unless you want to find me a quick and friendly api for generating stl files with geometric primitives like lines and shapes, that would be awesome
00:57 < gene> you just want a mesh you can dump into open foam?
00:57 < kanzure> No.
00:57 < kanzure> I want a generator that I have written that generates the mesh that I can dump into openfoam
00:58 < gene> could you teach me how to print stuff to file?
00:58 < kanzure> from what language
00:58 < kanzure> do you have a scripting language like perl, python or php installed?
00:58 < kanzure> that would be ideal
00:58 < gene> java, c, matlab, or perl or something simple
00:59 < kanzure> in perl you just do open(">file.txt",BLAH); print BLAH,"oh god!"; close(BLAH);
00:59 < kanzure> everything after "do" being the code...
00:59 < gene> I tried that and ended up with epic fail
00:59 < kanzure> what type of epic fail.
01:00 < gene> hell if I know
01:00 < kanzure> copy and paste the error.
01:00 < gene> I don't know where I put the code
01:00 < kanzure> then how did you get an error
01:01 < kanzure> I just gave it to you above
01:01 < kanzure> put that into a file, like test.pl
01:01 < kanzure> and then from the shell do: perl test.pl
01:01 < gene> well I might have to relearn perl
01:01 < kanzure> (navigate to the directory that has test.pl)
01:01 < kanzure> just copy and paste :(
01:01 < kanzure> gah..
01:05 < gene> Kanzure try adding another vertice to huh test manually then open it for me
01:06 < kanzure> alright
01:07 < gene> oh yeah nasa is handing out money for moon colonization ideas
01:07 < kanzure> yeah, I'm writing a proposal
01:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Space_colonization
01:07 < gene> really?
01:07 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing is contributing
01:07 < kanzure> yes
01:08 < gene> we could involve teh algae
01:08 < gene> we might want to see if it is edible
01:08 < kanzure> Nutrients?
01:08 < kanzure> I mean, where are you sourcing dirt ?
01:08 < gene> the algae
01:08 < gene> we try eating it
01:08 < gene> algae need nutrients, like what?
01:09 < kanzure> stuff not found in rock easily :(
01:09 < gene> specifically what?
01:09 < gene> amino acids?
01:10 < kanzure> Not sure.
01:10 < gene> some asteroids have amino acids
01:10 < kanzure> um, viewstl isn't viewing the file at all now
01:10 < kanzure> hrm
01:10 < kanzure> maybe mayavi will work
01:10 < gene> use art of illusion
01:11 < gene> the reprap guys use it
01:11 < gene> they have scripts that make gears in it
01:15 < kanzure> neat, it nearly looks right
01:15 < kanzure> where's blender's free zoom utility?
01:18 < gene> wooo!
01:18 < kanzure> except there's like two vertices that are wrong now, not just one
01:19 < kanzure> it looks like there's two sides and a top and bottom, but I cna't tell because I suck at navigating in blender
01:21 < gene> so
01:21 < gene>  it works
01:21 < gene> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7765701.stm
01:22 < gene> bet software could solve this problem fast
01:23 < kanzure> yep, it was mentioned on slashdot once in a comment
01:23 < kanzure> about a giant machine to chop up paper
01:23 < kanzure> and then on the other end take rapid photography of the pieces
01:23 < kanzure> and then re-assemble everything ever shredded
01:24 < gene> why?
01:24 < gene> why chop everything up and reassemble it?
01:25 < gene> I've heard about a project to piece together shredded logs from the german secret police but nothing like that
01:27 < kanzure> don't remember. it was a reference to some scifi story about rainbows.
01:27 < fenn> this was in rainbows end
01:27 < kanzure> not Rainbow's end though
01:27 < kanzure> fuck
01:27 < fenn> it was a cheap plot device to get them into an underground bioscience facility
01:27 < fenn> because they used genomics software to reassemble the shredded books (like shotgun sequencing)
01:28 < fenn> "rainbows end" not "rainbow's end"
01:28 < fenn> name of an old people community
01:35 < gene> that's too cheap
01:36 < gene> hey we have one those now don't we kanzure, an underground bioscience facility?
01:36 < kanzure> technically yeah
01:36 < kanzure> yes we do
01:36 < kanzure> have you seen the crane yet?
01:37 < gene> yeah
01:37 < kanzure> know how many floors they are going to do?
01:37 < gene> from above it while they put on the angular actuation motor
01:49 < kanzure_> fenn: http://www.yaxic.org/the_end_of_artificial_scarcity.pdf
01:49 < kanzure_> for reviewing.
01:50 < fenn> ug. another book nobody's going to read
01:50 < fenn> sorry to be so glum
01:52 < kanzure_> "Nobody is going to convince me that Alessandro Volta didn't think electricity wasn't going to tip the
01:52 < kanzure_> game slightly in favor of the peasants. Nobody is going to tell me that Robert Fulton wasn't acting
01:52 < kanzure_> in what he believed were the interests of mankind. "Oh, look," I can't imagine him saying. "There's
01:52 < kanzure_> an opportunity to further oppression of the working classes by making them not only have to work,
01:52 < kanzure_> but have to fight for the right to work too by making them have to compete on an open market
01:52 < kanzure_> against machines capable of working tirelessly with arbitrary accuracy!" Nobody is that stupid. Or
01:52 < kanzure_> are they?
01:53 < kanzure_> this is Smari stuff.
01:54 < fenn> am i supposed to be editing this? or just commenting on it
01:54 < fenn> like weird non-native english constructions
01:54 < kanzure> don't know, whatever you want
01:54 < kanzure> Smari says it's a draft in desperate need of revision/editing
01:55 < kanzure> but I don't know where he's going with it
01:55 < kanzure> or if it matters that much.
01:55 < gene> damn you know what I hate
01:55 < fenn> bees?
01:55 < kanzure> the sun?
01:55 < gene> I hate deboers over pricing rocks
01:55 < fenn> ihatebees!
01:55 < gene> I want diamonds
01:55 < fenn> so make some
01:55 < gene> for tools and lasers
01:56 < gene> good point
01:56 < kanzure> fenn: where do fablabs source their materials from?
01:56 < fenn> debeer's is shitting their pants because there are so many industrial diamond products that are nearly indistinguishable from natural diamons
01:56 < fenn> kanzure: how should i know?
01:56 < kanzure> k
01:56 < gene> I really want a metal coated diamond pressure container and pump so I can make metallic hydrogen
01:57 < fenn> kanzure: probably mcmaster-carr and smallparts.com
01:57 < kanzure> onlinemetals.com maybe too.
01:57 < kanzure> ok, not any bulk ordering supernetwork of sorts.
01:58 < gene> fablabs need to use local materials
01:59 < kanzure> not all materials are locally available.
01:59 < gene> indeed
01:59 < kanzure> see: geology/geophysics.
01:59 < gene> what about just be able to make bearing
02:00 < fenn> what about just being able to make your own fablab tools so you dont depend on these stupid companies to make them
02:00 < fenn> see: clay/sand clanking replicator
02:01 < fenn> i'm sorry kanzure, i can't read that book
02:01 < fenn> i'm really more of a picture book kind of guy
02:01 < gene> that's what machine shops do
02:01 < fenn> all this history stuff..
02:04 < gene> ECM can make toolheads
02:05 < kanzure> fenn: the pdf thingy? I glanced at it, ignore it
02:07 < fenn> i like the breadulator analogy
02:07 < fenn> "caught bread handed"
02:09 < kanzure> I feel kind of silly for not thinking about the money stuff that Paul pointed out
02:09 < kanzure> it's not like the money would be used for much of anything, unless prototypes from repositories were to be built
02:10 < fenn> about money being inherently politicized?
02:10 < kanzure> no no
02:10 < kanzure> he pointed out that the grant money would have to be questionably divided up among contributors
02:12 < kanzure> if they were to be salaried/paid.
02:13 < fenn> contributors to what
02:14 < kanzure> people covered by the grant.
02:14 < kanzure> the grant apparently wants a list of people who will work on it
02:14 < fenn> oh, the nasa thing
02:14 < fenn> good luck with that
02:15 < kanzure> sarcasm detector still broken
02:15 < kanzure> you're the hardest to detect sarcasm in..
02:15 < kanzure> although maybe you're just never sarcastic
02:15 < fenn> i always get skeptical when i hear "nasa calling for designs" news stories
02:15 < kanzure> usually that just means they want a new contractor, right?
02:15 < fenn> i will try to use a snark mark from now on~
02:16 < fenn> it means they are totally incompetent and scrambling desperately
02:16 < fenn> but in the end they always go with some lockheed-martin design
02:17 < kanzure> somebody stole 43 MB of designs from one of the contractors via an ssh bruteforce attack.
02:17 < kanzure> a few years back.
02:19 < kanzure_> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17523561.100-nasas-new-shuttle-designs-stolen-by-hacker.html
02:19 < kanzure_> Pratt and Whitney.
02:19 < fenn> meh
02:20 < fenn> "This information could help rogue states put spy satellites or even space-based weapons into orbit." or not~
02:20 < kanzure> how is meaning not preserved by dropping ~
02:21 < kanzure> I was trying to figure out on what website the documents were uploaded
02:21 < kanzure> but my search skills failed me
02:21 < fenn> you keep using your periods at the end of sentences, and i'll use my snark marks at the end of my snide remarks~
02:21 < kanzure> don't know why that wasn't torrented.
02:21 < kanzure> fwd'd
02:22 < fenn> uploaded?
02:22 < fenn> hmm why send it to a journalist
02:22 < fenn> put that shit on freenet
02:22 < kanzure> maybe these hackers are amateurs
02:23 < kanzure> I used to be big into the hacking scene, and that was back when I was an idiot
02:23 < kanzure> lots of idiots running around
02:23 < fenn> whole god damn planet is full of idiots
02:23 < kanzure> only sensible thing is to blow this shit up
02:23 < kanzure> where's my nukes.
02:24 < kanzure> ~~~~~~~~~
02:25 < bkero> Right here
02:26 < fenn> yo implant boy
02:26 < fenn> why are they putting it in your finger? that's so boring
02:26 < bkero> fenn: Finger is the best place to put it
02:27 < kanzure_> http://turkishdarbeteam.org/ <- TDT might know WoH 
02:27 < fenn> WoH?
02:27 < kanzure_> World of Hell 
02:27 < kanzure_> supposedly they have the NASA designs
02:29 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://world-of-hell.com/
02:29 < gene> nukes?
02:30 < gene> satellites?
02:30 < bkero> Jihads
02:30 < fenn> ah, if only someone would really forward me some stolen NASA designs
02:30 < gene> why use nukes for space travel anyway
02:30 < gene> NERVA's are just as good
02:31 < bkero> You talking about those engines the US devised way back that had small nuclear explosions as propulsion?
02:31 < gene> no
02:31 < fenn> nerva is a thermal nuclear rocket
02:31 < fenn> it never really worked
02:31 < gene> really 
02:31 < fenn> reactor was too heavy, and ISP sucked
02:32 < gene> damn
02:32 < fenn> in order to get the ISP high enough to be worth using, the fuel rods would melt and blow away in the exhaust
02:32 < fenn> so this is why we now have gas core reactor designs
02:32 < gene> americium gas core?
02:32 < fenn> uranium usually
02:33 < fenn> i dont think americium is really considered for any nuclear reactors, because where do you get it?
02:33 < gene> do you need to and rich it
02:33 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20010801230912/http://world-of-hell.com/interviewRaFa.txt
02:33 < gene> walmart, always low prices
02:37 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20000505164251/neworder.box.sk/box.php3?gfx=neworder&prj=neworder&key=scene&txt=Teams+%26+advisories
02:45 -!- gene_ is now known as gene
03:11 < kanzure> ssh bruteforce scripts are still being stupid. 
03:11 < bkero> Hawt.  http://www.mojang.com/notch/mario/ 
03:11 < kanzure> if these programmers weren't so lazy, they'd cross-reference usernames with expected login names with individuals listed as employees via sites like facebook and linkedin which allow reverse lookups.
03:11 < kanzure> so that you have a set of possible usernames for ssh access (maybe).
03:14 < gene> wait a minute are hacking the feds?
03:15 < gene> if you are then I am getting out of this chat room as fast as a photon in a vacuum
03:15 < bkero> lol
03:18 < kanzure_> "  Here are some rough ideas about how I think one could make a biological Turing machine using custom RNA splicing and zinc finger proteins.  I hope I expressed my idea clear enough for someone in this world to understand it.  Ha.  I would be interested in knowing if anybody thinks this idea will or will not work for specific reasons.  Thanks.
03:18 < kanzure_> http://www.scribd.com/doc/8703987/Biological-Turing-Machine-Idea "
03:18 < kanzure_> meh
03:18 < kanzure_> so slow..
03:18 < gene> you know I think you can buy zinc finger stuff at supplement places
03:19 < gene> you can buy almost anything as a supplement
03:30 < kanzure_> http://www.tinkercell.com/ "TinkerCell is an open-source project for simulating and analyzing biochemical networks. TinkerCell is designed so that it is highly flexible for the types of models that can be constructed. The simulations are fast because they run on separate thread (parallel processing) and are implemented in C."
03:30 < kanzure_> "
03:30 < kanzure_> TinkerCell comes with features such as a custom set of biological parts and connections and modules that makes it suitable as a CAD software for synthetic biology."
03:31 < kanzure_> "
03:31 < kanzure_> The TinkerCell core library provides a general framework for building a network with nodes and connections, with information attached to each node and connection. The default plug-ins provide features such as stoichiometry matrix for each connection, attributes for each part, family tree of parts and connections, and more."
03:31 < kanzure_> ah, this is deepak's work.
03:31 < kanzure_> This is pretty neat.
03:37 < fenn> yep that's pretty much it
03:38 < fenn> xp_prg can officially go home now
03:38 < kanzure_> yay
03:38 < kanzure_> oh look, prepackaged ubuntu binaries
03:38 < kanzure_> (the svn makeall.pl script is stupid and fails)
03:39 < fenn> those screenshots are freaky close to what i was imagining for biobench
03:41 < kanzure> hrm, segmentation fault
03:42 < fenn> this one in particular http://www.tinkercell.com/screenshots/screenshot.cells.jpg?attredirects=0
03:42 < kanzure> had to do an export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/Tinkercell/
03:44 < kanzure> argh, absolute instead of relative includes ..
03:46 < kanzure_> c/cvodesim.c:394: error: subscripted value is neither array nor pointer
03:46 < kanzure_> hrm..
03:46 < kanzure_> it's basically complaining about ((something))[j]
03:50 < fenn> bad macro?
03:52 < kanzure> oh wait.
03:52 < kanzure> no, just bad code
03:52 < kanzure> if(ODE_POSITIVE_VALUES_ONLY && (NV_DATA_S(u))[j] < 0)
03:52 < kanzure> nope, nevermind. that works.
03:52 < kanzure> I mean, it parses.
03:53 < kanzure> (allegedly)
03:53 < fenn> maybe it should be:
03:53 < fenn> if(ODE_POSITIVE_VALUES_ONLY && (NV_DATA_S(u)[j] < 0))
03:54 < kanzure> same error.
03:54 < kanzure> at that same line
03:55 < kanzure> another instance of the same error:
03:55 < kanzure> 306 (same error): u  = N_VNew_Serial(N);
03:55 < kanzure> 315 (same error): realtype * udata = NV_DATA_S(u);
03:55 < fenn> should have some [] brackets in order to get that error
03:56 < kanzure> realtype: so illusive..
03:58 < fenn> do you get "undefined reference to `N_VNew_Serial'"
03:59 < kanzure> no
04:02 < kanzure> this is stupid
04:02 < kanzure> wine + windows version works fine
04:03 < kanzure> had to do wine msiexec /i TinkerInstaller.msi to get the msi file running.
04:16 < kanzure_> http://sites.google.com/site/dchandran1/drawings the guy doesn't do too terrible art.
04:36 < kanzure> Hi `tty`.
04:36 < `tty`> hey
04:36 < `tty`> do you think ADHD is a requirement now?
04:36 < kanzure> Hah.
04:36 < kanzure> Requirement for what?
04:36 < `tty`> given the flood of information out there
04:36 < `tty`> for evolving intelligence/consciousness
04:36 < `tty`> i see no other way, really
04:37 < `tty`> it's most agile
04:37 < kanzure> a brutal refusal to admit in your own information overload is definitely a prereq, we call this thickheadedness
04:37 < `tty`> at integrating new info
04:37 < `tty`> what do you mean? if you don't mind me being thickheaded
04:38 < kanzure> I just come across people telling me that I suffer from information overload, and I tend to refuse to believe this.
04:38 < `tty`> oh yeah
04:38 < `tty`> you're model 2.0
04:38 < kanzure> am I?
04:38 < `tty`> it's necessary given the environment
04:39 < `tty`> i haven't seen such flood of information ... when i was your age i was in Boston so I would be in the MIT Hayden (sci) and Barker (eng) libraries all day
04:39 < `tty`> and I did not have the level of info flood available to you via the internetS
04:40 < kanzure> ooh, MIT sci/engineering libraries.
04:40 < kanzure> is there a link to download that yet?
04:40 < `tty`> lol
04:40 < `tty`> their course materials online
04:40 < kanzure> right
04:40 < `tty`> not the books/periodicals/conference proceedings, and my favorite:
04:40 < `tty`> PhD thesis or thesi
04:41 < kanzure> Did you see http://heybryan.org/books/ yet?
04:41 < `tty`> nope... I need true ADHD for that
04:41 < `tty`> i'm close to that but my girlfriend needs something called "presence"
04:41 < `tty`> which contradicts ADHD in a fundamental way
04:42 < kanzure> what is this 'presence' you speak of
04:42 < kanzure> is it some kind of drug?
04:42  * `tty` is laughing at himself
04:42 < `tty`> hmm... its the ability to pay attention to your gf when she talks
04:42 < `tty`> real deep attention
04:42 < `tty`> which is very expensive these days
04:42 < kanzure> there's some seriously sexist things that could be said about that
04:42 < kanzure> in various degrees of comedic effect
04:42 < `tty`> right... but i prefer the water and air analogy
04:43 < kanzure> ?
04:43 < `tty`> water needs space and abstraction to be
04:43 < `tty`> i mean AIR
04:43 < `tty`> doh
04:43 < `tty`> and water needs merging and closeness 
04:43 < `tty`> i'm air, needless to say
04:43 < kanzure> "How do you capture a beautiful bird without killing its spirit?"
04:43 < kanzure> "By becoming the sky, by letting it fly."
04:43 < `tty`> lol
04:44 < `tty`> hmm
04:44 < `tty`> well, the interesting thing is that i see no way around ADHD .. it's an evolutionary trait... how come girls don't have it as much as boys?
04:45 < `tty`> that's the real question w.r.t. evolution
04:45 < kanzure> I've met a few of them.
04:45 < `tty`> are girls lagging 
04:45 < `tty`> oh yea?
04:45 < `tty`> can they absorb math and science at the speed of light and in 10 different areas at once?
04:45 < `tty`> i feel sexist now
04:46 < kanzure> nope, don't feel bad, they're ridiculously rare and they're still not as awesome as me
04:46 < `tty`> haven't met a girl with information processing ADHD
04:47 < kanzure> try looking for the aspie girls.
04:47 < `tty`> asberger? spelling? 
04:47 < kanzure> asperger
04:48 < `tty`> not an ass burger
04:48 < `tty`> ESL is my native tongue, so ...
04:48 < `tty`> anyway, are you chatting on 3 windows at once?
04:48 < `tty`> i'l go check this out: http://nervous.cnns.unt.edu/
04:49 < `tty`> then go kill some slow brain cells the natural way..
04:49 < kanzure> uh, 9 on this screen
04:49 < kanzure> 8 on the other monitor
04:49 < `tty`> the Open Manufacturing list is really cool
04:49 < kanzure> :)
04:49 < `tty`> any other lists i should know about?
04:49 < kanzure> yes
04:50 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html
04:50 < `tty`> great thanks
04:50  * `tty` bookmarking
04:50 < `tty`> later dude, keep breathing 
04:50 < `tty`> :)
04:51 < kanzure> why has everyone forgot the art of idling
04:53 < bkero> ?
04:53 < kanzure> Okay, not everyone. Just the ones that leave.
04:54 < bkero> I'm at work, doing $2
04:54 < kanzure> Doing what?
04:54 < bkero> work
04:54 < kanzure> $2 is work?
04:54 < bkero> $2 is the third word
04:54 < bkero> Listening to Komm, Susser Tod
04:54 < kanzure> jkdflad;sfjaslk;d
04:54  * kanzure is watching some DBZ.
04:54 < bkero> You've seen Yo, haven't you?
04:55 < kanzure> Don't remember. :(
04:55 < kanzure> An anime?
04:55 < bkero> Dragon Ball Yo
04:55 < kanzure> Me will search.
04:55 < bkero> It's out there.
04:56 < bkero> Sweetened tea is fucking horrid
05:34 -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer
05:50 < willPow3r> sweet tea is the fucking bomb, what u talkin bout bkero 
05:57 < gene> doesn't sweet tea have more sugar in it?
05:57 < gene> increasing your chances of crashing?
06:26 < willPow3r> crashing?
06:27 < willPow3r> sweet tea is common on the east coast, its really nothing more than regular tea with lots of sugar
06:27 < willPow3r> can't find it anywhere here on the west coast
06:28 < gene> are you in teh valley?
06:28 < willPow3r> no, san diego
06:29 < gene> hmmmm....
06:29 < gene> why do you need tea
06:29 < willPow3r> because it tastes good?
06:30 < gene> ok you make a good argument there
06:37 < gene> http://arxivblog.com/?p=743
06:37 < gene> check this out
06:37 < gene> http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.3792
06:37 < gene> and this
11:38 -!- UtoTest is now known as UtopiahGHML
14:18 < kanzure_> http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/12/06/2238223.shtml <- battling over minimum pricing
14:27 < kanzure_> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianScience/ComputerAlgebraSystems    comparisons.
14:27 < kanzure_> hrm, doesn't have sage or simpy mentioned
14:27 < kanzure_> or numpy
14:30 < willPow3r> i use maxima in texmacs for CAS
14:31 < kanzure> maxima is running on linux?
14:31 < kanzure> wait.. /me double checks some things
14:31 < kanzure> ah yes
14:31 < willPow3r> yeah, you have to kind of hack the scripts though
19:42 < wrldpc> anyone have Fab.pdf?
19:42 < wrldpc> by G-feld?
19:55 < fenn> i have the paperback
19:55 < fenn> "the coming revolution on your desktop" right?
19:56 < fenn> or did you mean this: http://ng.cba.mit.edu/dist/fab.pdf
20:05 < wrldpc> the paperback
20:06 < fenn> i dont really know how much value you'll get out of it.. it's very introductory
20:08 < wrldpc> aye ... I'm trying to introduce some people to the concepts.
20:09 < kanzure> "MAKE STUFF". Just yell that at them I guess.
20:10 < fenn> the book is very "inspiring"
20:10 < fenn> it's for all the people who ask "but why"
20:11 < kanzure> I've always liked "G-feld"'s point about "giving people something other to do than, you know, nothing."
20:11 < fenn> other than shoot at each other
20:11  * kanzure nods
20:11  * wrldpc nods
20:11  * fenn nods too
20:12 < fenn> rawr i'm tired of scanning this book
20:12 < kanzure> say, is there a gnu general "how to be a developer on an open source project" presentation that I should start linking people to?
20:12 < kanzure> scanning which?
20:12 < fenn> i just want to do GPGPU medial axis transform! why oh why is the world so harsh
20:13 < fenn> peter pearce
20:13 < fenn> re: how to run an open source project, actually there is
20:13 < fenn> there's also a related article on how not to be clueless
20:14 < kanzure> like, I want something that I can show people and suddenly they will reach enlightenment about revision control systems and so on
20:15 < fenn> oh, well, that's not going to happen
20:15 < fenn> software carpentry is good
20:15 < fenn> but they have to want to learn
20:16 < fenn> http://www.swc.scipy.org/lec/version.html
20:16 < fenn> he describes cvs-style version control unfortunately
20:18 < fenn> i wonder if this is the true origin of the phrase
20:18 < fenn> I need to fix this bug, but first I better eat something so I don't get tired. So I'm going to have some cereal, but I'm out of milk. So I'll go get some milk.  But I heard that yak milk is the best, so I'll go out to Nepal to find a yak. But they're all so hairy, I can't get to their udders.  So, first I'll just shave the yak.
20:20 < kanzure> I think it's more popular than scipy.
20:20 < kanzure> I've been called a yak shaver :-/
20:29 < kanzure> oh foo
20:29 < drazak> kanzure: have you tried hg?
20:29 < kanzure> I'm missing the feast
20:29 < drazak> mercurial, that is
20:29 < kanzure> drazak: Mercury?
20:30 < kanzure> the rcs?
20:30 < kanzure> not yet.
20:30 < drazak> it's a revision control system
20:30 < drazak> really pretty decent
20:30 < kanzure> will it instantly bring enlightenment to those who I show it to?
20:30 < drazak> maybe
20:30 < fenn> no
20:31 < fenn> i think the problem with rvision control system is they dont have enough pretty pictures
20:31 < fenn> something like vimdiff or kompare would help immensely in getting the point across
20:32 < kanzure> does vimdiff just show a diff in a vim window?
20:32 < fenn> no, it shows to files side by side with different color backgrounds for added or removed lines
20:32 < fenn> two*
20:32 < kanzure> ah.
20:33 < fenn> and kompare is essentially the same thing with slime arrows
20:34 < kanzure> actually it should be easier to show rcs with 3d models, like "bob just submitted a new patch, his super ultra mechanical part. Joe meanwhile is editing his own copy, and overwrites Bob's changes .. gasp"
20:34 < kanzure> and then show the mechanical parts being overwritten
20:34 < kanzure> bleh, not enticing enough
20:37 < fenn> well, yeah, but first we'd need some kind of distributed cad software
20:37 < fenn> and it's about more than just multiple people editing the same file
20:37 < kanzure> well just for visualization it'd be a stupid animated thingy
20:37 < kanzure> but
20:37 < fenn> RCS is very useful for a lone developer
20:37 < kanzure> distributed cad modeling doesn't sound too painful, what do you mean we don't have it? Just pull and push from the git repo
20:37 < kanzure> in fact
20:37 < kanzure> isn't there a gitfs or something?
20:38 < fenn> there should be
20:38 < fenn> well, git really is a filesystem if you think about it long enough
20:38 < kanzure> well I mean just so that you don't have to go teh hackings into programs 
20:38 < kanzure> although using filesystem wrappers doesn't really capture all (any) of the features
20:38 < kanzure> so on second thought that might be a terrible idea..
20:39 < fenn> i think it might be a skew idea
20:39 < fenn> i.e. not quite perpendicular
20:39 < kanzure> so, homosexual?
20:40 < fenn> no
20:40 < fenn> nevermind
20:40 < fenn> the problem is that all the software out there expects a dumb (i.e. non-rcs) filesystem
20:40 < fenn> so you have to manually update everything all the time by pressing 'save'
20:40 < kanzure> maybe there's an stdio-git.h lib somewhere
20:41 < kanzure> a serializer might be an appropriate place to do the hack.
20:41 < fenn> http://www.sfgoth.com/~mitch/linux/gitfs/ <- is that what you're thinking of?
20:42 < kanzure> I'll check in a bit, I'm "rolling with the homies"
20:43 < fenn> keep it real, yo
23:43 < kanzure_> Reference: Open Source Manufacturing, 2009 conference of the Society For Machinery Failure Prevention Technology, Dayton, Ohio, 28-30 April 2009 (accepted, to appear)
23:43 < kanzure_> Authors: Pierce Kuhnell, Amit Deshpande
23:43 < kanzure_> oh, it's just about mtconnect
23:43 < kanzure_> nevermind