--- Day changed Thu Dec 18 2008
00:05 < gene> cool
00:05 < gene> dna chips
00:28 < kanzure_> Phreedom: because there's only four.
00:28 < kanzure_> Everything easy to do has a bazillion, like text editors
00:28 < Phreedom> kanzure_: much more than four, but most aren't up-to-date ;)
00:29 < Phreedom> nobody needs a layout engine that's behind the current norm
00:32 < fenn> i do
00:32 < fenn> well, dillo is the only one that actually goes fast enough for me
00:32 < fenn> (and it doesnt do CSS)
00:46 < kanzure_> http://turnitin.com/static/products.html "Over 70 million student papers have been submitted." <- ack, what a waste of time.
00:47 < kanzure_> one day I might break down and just hack together opera and firefox and be done with it
00:48 < kanzure_> while reverse compilers aren't going to work well for me, I seem to recall there being a few tricks.
01:15 < kanzure_> "                                    MEL is one of seven NIST Laboratories, and
01:15 < kanzure_> its mission includes the satisfaction of the measurement and standards needs of
01:15 < kanzure_> U.S. manufacturers.
01:15 < kanzure_> Wait, what? They work *for* companies?
01:15 < kanzure_> "
01:16 < fenn> yes, they do calibration and testing
01:19 < kanzure_> http://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/bestpractices/ is interesting, a portal page for "industrial plant personnel" and DOE stuff.
01:23 < fenn> since they're produced by a US govt agency, shouldnt the source be available as public domain?
01:25 < kanzure_> it would be interesting to argue this point: "if documents are only available to certainly named Engineers in Companies, which are companies owned by Foreign Powers That Be, then you're effectively making sure that U.S. citizens do not have access to that information -- specialization for citizens that are employed by foreign companies doesn't count in the total count."
01:28 < fenn> by "should" i mean "legally, under the current system"
01:28 < fenn> for example this is why we have emc2
01:28 < fenn> er, EMC1
01:30 < kanzure_> http://gnuwave.org/drupal/openmis "An extensible, easy-to-use, well-documented manufacturing inventory system aimed at small to medium-sized businesses."
01:30 < kanzure_> https://launchpad.net/openmis
01:31 < kanzure_> oops, it's dead
01:31 < kanzure_> nevermind
01:33 < fenn> 12/09/08 isnt that long ago
01:33 < fenn> it's just fledgeling still
01:45 < kanzure_> you see eli.html ?
01:46 < fenn> no
01:46 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/eli.html
01:47 < fenn> why am i reading this?
01:51 < fenn> have i mentioned how much i love linux lately?
01:51 < bkero> <3 linux
01:52 < kanzure_> fenn: you're reading it because I failed to figure out how to properly plot pipes in brlcad today, so that's about all that I've been able to dig up
01:53 < kanzure_> and what's with the new love affair in linux?
01:54 < fenn> i've been using an old mac powerbook; using utter crap software helps you value what you have
01:54 < fenn> oh and i just did "eject /mnt" and it Just Worked(tm)
02:46 < kanzure_> http://www.census.gov/mcd/asmhome.html Annual Survey of Manufactures
02:47 < kanzure_> neat, they have statistics organized by NAICS' classification system
02:47 < kanzure_> that sounds incredibly unlikely..
02:51 < kanzure_> http://www.ciras.iastate.edu/publications/CIRASNews/fall97/network.html "Flexible manufacturing networks" - firms pooling resources together. hrm.
02:52 < kanzure_> "by 1991 there were over 50 documented networks in various stages of operation"
02:56 < kanzure_> hm, clicking around on macrae's blue book (an industry directory), I think I'm starting to get the picture
02:56 < kanzure_> these RFQ's, RFC's, etc., are mostly done by email it seems
02:56 < kanzure_> or I guess sometimes done through crappy web interfaces
02:56 < kanzure_> blah, I should stop before I get started. /me goes away
02:58 < fenn> good god it's Communism!
03:00 < gene> COMMUNISM!
03:00 < gene> ???
03:01 < fenn> festering in the heart of America
03:02 < fenn> (encouraged by those damned Leftist Universities of course)
03:02 < fenn> Iowa State Communist Industrial Research and Service
03:03 < fenn> ok that's enough of that
03:05  * splicer wonders if china would fund defunct domestic auto industry
03:42 < gene> well there was that 100 billion dollar bailout fenn that's like way more communist
03:42 < gene> do you know how many giant robots you could build with a 100 million
03:43 < gene> ahem a 100 billion
03:45 < Phreedom> gene: I thought it was several 100 billion?
03:53 < gene_> oh yeah
03:53 < gene_> you can still buy a lot of stuff with 100 billion though
03:54 < gene_> you can buy more giant robots than there are aircraft carriers
04:03 < Phreedom> gene_: 100 billion sounds like enough to completely change the world :)
04:03 < gene_> heh
04:03 < Phreedom> not by feeding the hungry, but by developing tools which would allow smarter of them to fix their own problems
04:03 < gene_> you could buy a lot of repraps for that amount
04:04 < Phreedom> repraps don't grow potatos ;)
04:04 < Phreedom> not yet
04:04 < gene_> you could buy 10 giant diverging lenses 1000 kilometers in diameter capable of stopping global warming ten times over
04:05 < Phreedom> or better yet build more concentrated solar power stations
04:06 < gene_> yeah solar power is much better
04:27 < Phreedom> plenty of useful stuff to do. The question is where do I apply for a 100bn grant?
04:37 < procto> Phreedom: you should join #phreadom :>
04:44 < fenn> yes, build them in space
04:51 < kanzure_> weird, Nathan seriously doesn't understand Eric's posts to om
04:54 < kanzure_> ack.. what's with all of the verbose crap
04:55 < fenn> " for those who may think I'm serious, I'm not. I'm only being honest"
04:56 < fenn> so, er... what does that mean?
04:58 < fenn> i think he hasn't learned that sarcasm clogs the tubes
04:58 < kanzure_> read the next email he sent in that thread
04:58 < kanzure_> I'm thinking "holy shit what I have gotten myself into" .. what's with this overly verbose philosophical *shit*
04:59 < kanzure_> I mean, I'm into philosophy, but this is starting to become annoying
05:01 < fenn> that gear handshake is really corny
05:01 < kanzure_> yeah :(
05:02 < fenn> i need a threaded mail reader
05:02 < kanzure_> kmail
05:02 < fenn> preferably available on BSD
05:02 < fenn> over a terminal
05:03 < kanzure_> you were on a mac, you've moved to a BSD system?
05:03 < kanzure_> freeeeeeeebsd?
05:03 < kanzure_> freebsd*
05:03 < kanzure_> (keyboard has been acting up lately..)
05:03 < fenn> no, my email server is freebsd
05:03 < fenn> the mac was just for some old files i was archiving, they were in stupid mac formats
05:06 < fenn> "citizens bought less today"
05:07 < kanzure_> paul's line?
05:07 < fenn> rofl "Slaves association for future mastership"
05:07 < Phreedom> procto: will I get a cookie? ;)
05:08 < kanzure_> "In last year's iGEM, a team from Freiburg created a
05:08 < kanzure_> breadboard using DNA Origami "
05:08 < kanzure_> http://2008.igem.org/DNA-Origami
05:08 < kanzure_> how's that a breadboard. hrm..
05:13 < fenn> would be interesting to do a bitmap image with the various fluorescent proteins
05:14 < kanzure_> what's the xy coords? based off of the dna origami foldingness?
05:15 < kanzure_> I think Paul Rothemund was doing a smiley face as one type of image, so I guess if you can do a b&w->dna generator
05:15 < kanzure_> Paul's smiley got on the cover of a few magazines.
05:15 < fenn> no i mean the tiles would interlock such that the only way to solve all the constraints is a picture
05:15 < kanzure_> (IIRC)
05:15 < fenn> this could be done with some kind of stacked wavelet decomposition
05:15 < fenn> each layer of tiles corresponding to a wavelet
05:16 < fenn> i dont know how to say that in english
05:17 < fenn> it's sorta like the binary counter but with 2d patches instead of just rows
05:17 < kanzure_> I'll have to look up wavelet decomposition. but I'm thinking 'unfolding' of an image, 'unraveling'.
05:17 < kanzure_> hm.
05:18 < fenn> http://www.toolsmiths.com/images/cwtgrns.gif
05:19 < fenn> do you have a browser yet?
05:19 < kanzure_> yep, I seeeeeeeee it
05:19 < kanzure_> blah, keyboard.
05:19 < gene_> cool idea
05:20 < fenn> yeah but is it feasible?
05:20 < gene_> now if we only had some biobricks and enzymes
05:20 < gene_> I don't know
05:20 < fenn> also there's the minor problem of DNA tiles being a zillion times smaller than visible wavelengths
05:20 < gene_> but I heard that biochemistry is like electronics without the electricity
05:20 < kanzure_> well the ellingtonlab that I was at was doing bacteria that would display a black and white photo
05:20 < kanzure_> not quite the same thing as DNA, but at least you could see it visibly
05:21 < gene_> so add a different photoreceptor
05:21 < gene_> for different colors
05:21 < kanzure_> what do you mean "so"
05:21 < fenn> you could add a gold atom and do electron micrography
05:21 < kanzure_> you're assuming I'm trying ttto add colors?
05:21 < kanzure_> or trying to do anything at all or something?
05:22 < gene_> no
05:23 < gene_> I just suggested a way of adding flourescent black light colors to biopictures
05:23 < fenn> i'm thinking "that's cute, but what's it good for"
05:23 < gene_> to make it look like some sort of blacklight poster
05:23 < fenn> and it's good for assembling arrays of other stuff
05:23 < gene_> hold one sec
05:23 < gene_> my browser has accumulated errors and I need to purge
05:24 < kanzure_> gee, it's as if he's still using firefox
05:24 < kanzure_> oh wait.
05:24 < fenn> that's what they're trying to do after all: "the antigens NIP and fluoresceine can as well be fused to these oligos"
05:25 < gene> woo update
05:27 < kanzure_> gene, did you ever poooooooost that hand held       factory thingy to the om list?
05:27 < kanzure_> it's after finals, so.
05:27 < gene> OH SHIT NO
05:27 < kanzure_> sarcasm?
05:28 < gene> btw I need some sun
05:28 < kanzure_> the company?
05:30 < gene> no sunlight
05:30 < gene> snow would be good too
05:31 < gene> how else do you power a solar powered balloon
05:32 < fenn> nathan's massive political overhead reminds me of this: http://fennetic.net/milesaway/decision_making
05:35 < kanzure_> you know, with the amount of time he spent typing that crap, he could have been learning what a metal is
05:35 < fenn> impossible!
05:35 < gene> who do you speak of?
05:35 < fenn> i only know how to complain and shit
05:36 < fenn> all that other stuff is way over my head
05:36 < fenn> (not that i'm saying anything bad about anyone)
05:36 < gene> another guy trying to start some project related to replicators?
05:36 < kanzure_> no
05:36 < kanzure_> he just posts to om
05:37 < gene> oh
05:37 < kanzure_> but for the record there is another guy trying to do replicators, i.e. Paul
05:37 < gene> heh
05:37 < kanzure_> and he's also on the om list
05:37 < gene> let me guess they're software people
05:37 < kanzure_> nathan isn't
05:37 < kanzure_> he's .. well I don't know what he is
05:38 < gene> he's probably a dragon, avoid him at all cost
05:38 < gene> s
05:39 < fenn> nathan's one of those Damned Things that dont fit into categories
05:42 < kanzure_> huh, I wonder if suppliers accepting RFC's/RFQ's get lots of spam. How do they know which opportunities to investigate further and put time/resources into checking out?
05:43 < kanzure_> I mean, that has to be a pretty big deal
05:43 < kanzure_> "you claim you have *how* much demand? well sir. you have yourself a deal."
05:43 < kanzure_> phantom suppliers :p
05:44 < kanzure_> *into checking it out
05:44 < kanzure_> yay for spontaneously dropping words
05:48 < gene> that's called word carpetbombing
06:24 < kanzure_> fenn: re: your om post, you know about canonizer.com and why it's crappy, right?
06:24 < kanzure_> or really re: your decision page
06:26 < fenn> what does canonizer have to do with that
06:28 < kanzure_> brent's supergoal is to make some silly way of hearing everybody's opinion
06:28 < kanzure_> as a way for telling decision makers what decisions people want to make
06:28 < kanzure_> (there's so many issues with that idea that it's hard to know where to begin ..)
06:29 < fenn> problem is voting doesnt work for technical decisions
06:29 < fenn> and it's very easy to manipulate large numbers of people
06:29 < fenn> (with enough money)
06:30 < kanzure_> also, it's difficult to express opinions in text
06:30 < kanzure_> or to do meaning mining and such ..
06:30 < fenn> is it?
06:30 < fenn> hmm wasnt that the point of canonizer?
06:30 < kanzure_> didn't you say it takes you forever to put something in a category
06:30 < fenn> er.. maybe
06:30 < fenn> i think i was whining about hierarchical bookmarking/filesystem, wishing for tags
06:30 < kanzure_> oh, I could probably also link here to Doctorow's "tagging is shit, go home kids" article
06:31 < fenn> boo.. poop on doctorow then
06:31 < kanzure_> nsh agrees with me here :-)
06:31 < kanzure_> or at least once did
06:31 < fenn> nsh is working on semantic infrastructure isnt he?
06:31 < kanzure_> about needing more processssual things going on here
06:31 < kanzure_> wait, what? nsh is in a bio lab
06:31 < fenn> oh
06:31 < fenn> well, it was someone
06:31 < kanzure_> more processes rather than just textnaming stuff
06:32 < kanzure_> or the way procto put it .. I'd rather wake up and have everyone replaced with perl scripts rather than replaced with tags
06:32 < fenn> sure objects are better than data
06:32 < kanzure_> blah, objects ..
06:32 < fenn> but how many people can write code?
06:32 < kanzure_> executing code is better than objects
06:32 < fenn> much less code that plays well with other code
06:33 < fenn> object = executable code + data
06:33 < fenn> c++ has sort of butt-raped the term
06:33 < kanzure_> hm. nod.
06:34 < kanzure_> huh, Mike Harris (openvirgle mike) responded pretty fast to your clusterfuck rollcall
06:36 < fenn> i still chuckle about "William Abaris"
06:36 < kanzure_> his penname? what was the joke?
06:36 < kanzure_> he explaaaaained it once, something about a hero he admired?
06:37 < fenn> dunno, the funny part to me is that it's so obviously him because of numerous google-droppings
06:37 < fenn> "Thanks, I think I'm still going to use it :-) What I really wanted to make sure was that no one new who Abaris was: a mythical Heperborean healer."
06:38 < kanzure_> what sucks is that everybody seems to be getting excited about doing absolutely nothing on om
06:38 < kanzure_> I feel sick. I need to push some code..
06:39 < fenn> pocket.py now has pan and zoom! wheee
06:39 < kanzure_> huh?
06:39 < kanzure_> pocket?
06:39 < kanzure_> is this in the emc .git?
06:39 < fenn> in here http://fennetic.net/git/cxf2cnc.git/
06:40 < kanzure_> erm, the cnc.git :)
06:40 < fenn> it's some crap i'm working on, CAM algorithms
06:40 < kanzure_> what do you say CAM is
06:40 < fenn> so people don't have to have a functioning emc2 install
06:40 < kanzure_> is this just gcode stuff, or is this also more advanced manufacturing stuffs
06:40 < kanzure_> I guess you can't do much though with manufacturing stuffs because of a lack of access
06:40 < kanzure_> so that's a stupid question. nevermind.
06:40 < fenn> computer aided manufacturing, but it usually means going from a CAD geometry file to some kind of toolpath or robot movement instructions
06:40 < kanzure_> k
06:41 < fenn> i dont have anything to run it on right now, but not for lack of access (?) because i'm building it?
06:41  * fenn ponders the philosophical meaning of "access"
06:41 < fenn> is anything truly unfair.. what is freedom?
06:42 < kanzure_> the meaning of access: if you call forth a script, does it execute or just sit there and spurt errors?
06:42 < fenn> it generates a .nc file
06:43 < fenn> you can then run that .nc on a simulated machine or a real machine
06:43 < kanzure_> the meaning of access is "get back to work"
06:43 < fenn> s/access/motivation/
06:43 < kanzure_> whywork.org ref here ? :p
06:43 < fenn> jeez i can't even get any chocolate because the roads are so icy
06:43 < fenn> damn planetary weather
06:44 < fenn> today i was daydreaming about buying dropship.com and setting up a point to point small instant delivery service using UAV's
06:45 < kanzure_> automated or aerial? dropship, I'm guesing is aerial.
06:45 < fenn> both
06:45 < fenn> cost scales with distance and mass
06:46 < fenn> with discounts for returned containers
06:46 < kanzure_> yep, it was mentioned on om a few months ago for a competition of sorts
06:47 < kanzure_> something about delivering milk cartons
06:47 < fenn> it was? can you remember any other keywords?
06:47 < kanzure_> milk cartons aren't mentioned often.
06:47 < kanzure_> competition, prize, milk cartons, ..
06:47 < kanzure_> vehicles, robots, stuff like that
06:48 < gene> automated delivery UAVs
06:48 < kanzure_> I posted in the thread, so you can probably search for bryan +     milk
06:48 < gene> I always wanted something like that in high school
06:49 < gene> for delivering books if I forgot them
06:49 < fenn> god dammit. google groups used to actually display right
06:50 < kanzure_> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/66c29329c67d6bfb/f93eb1261d13613f?lnk=gst&q=Bryan+milk#f93eb1261d13613f
06:50 < gene> you know it would be great idea to actually build something like that
06:50 < gene> trees might be a problem though
06:50 < gene> and landing
06:50 < gene> do you intend to airdrop groceries?
06:50 < fenn> yes
06:51 < gene> IE via parachutes?
06:51 < fenn> there is much room for innovation
06:52 < fenn> just imagine i'm writing a journal article starting with "towards a..."
06:52 < gene> hmmm... you can make parachutes from HDPE sheeting, the same stuff that grocery bags are made from
06:52 < kanzure_> well you could just spout off aboout the possibilities, sure
06:52 < kanzure_> but I
06:52 < gene> but that seems a bit wasteful to me
06:52 < kanzure_> I'm wondering how you'd actually go about getting implementations?
06:53 < gene> yeah you would need gasoline powered airplanes, not special RC plane fuel, and some automatic refuel system
06:53 < fenn> kanzure_: bounties
06:54 < fenn> it seems like a very accessible research area
06:54 < gene> oh and might I remind you that small 2 stroke engines can be very polluting
06:54 < fenn> they havent yet made UAV's or knowledge about them illegal...
06:54 < gene> yup
06:54 < gene> it's unregulatable now
06:54 < fenn> gene: might i remind you that driving your two ton fucking block of metal and glass to the store is also polluting
06:54 < gene> two stroke engines are more polluting
06:55 < gene> err small engines are
06:55 < fenn> if it's an issue, i'll use a four-stroke engine
06:55 < gene> or turbines
06:55 < fenn> really i think electric would be fine since the trip distance is easily characterized
06:55 < fenn> in terms of maintenance costs it's way cheaper
06:55 < fenn> and more predictable
06:56 < gene> what about wind
06:56 < fenn> this would only fly (haha) in a very progressive area though, due to silly government officials getting in the way
06:57 < gene> not even in a very progressive area
06:57 < fenn> where then?
06:57 < gene> where there is no red tape
06:57 < fenn> people have to be: 1) lazy 2) lots of money 3) not risk-averse
06:57 < fenn> and live relatively close together
06:57 < gene> in LA  cops can't fly a UAV because redtape
06:58 < fenn> FAA?
06:58 < gene> you guessed it
06:58 < fenn> i remember the automated radio beacon whatsit project failed because they had to have a human on-board, even though he wasnt doing anything
06:58 < gene> oh yeah try to avoid hitting powerlines
06:59 < fenn> piece of cake
06:59 < gene> automated radio beacon?
06:59 < fenn> powerlines are a big long conductor, how can you not see them?
06:59 < fenn> (with appropriate radar of course)
06:59 < gene> what with micro impulse radar or optic flow
07:00 < fenn> the beacon  i'm talking about was a 24-hour solar powered plane that would just fly over an area constantly
07:00 < gene> it's hard to put radar on something small
07:00 < gene> cool
07:00 < fenn> acting as a cellphone tower or satellite replacement
07:00 < gene> was one built?
07:00 < fenn> yes it was a nasa project
07:00 < gene> cool
07:00 < gene> so how do you deliver the goods?
07:00 < fenn> you've seen pictures i'm sure.. just a big wing with some tailfin looking things for wheels
07:00 < gene> I know know
07:01 < fenn> deliver?
07:01 < fenn> oh, the starting point?
07:01 < gene> as in get them to some one's front yard
07:01 < gene> and not their pool
07:01 < fenn> GPS
07:01 < fenn> not my fault if they want it to land in their pool
07:02 < gene> how do you get them on the ground
07:02 < fenn> drop them
07:02 < fenn> gravity
07:02 < gene> from what height?
07:02 < fenn> i dunno
07:02 < gene> 0?
07:02 < fenn> maybe
07:03 < fenn> with enough reserve thrust, any airplane can act as a helicopter
07:03 < gene> what do you wish to deliver and at what cost?
07:03 < gene> you don't need reserve thrust
07:03 < gene> you just need a long rope
07:03 < fenn> electronics, medicine, software.. things with high value but low mass and volume
07:04 < gene> good idea
07:04 < gene> heh in that case you might drop them
07:05 < gene> might have trouble with electronics thoug
07:05 < fenn> recently i ordered a package of: LED's, micro-SD cards, and watch batteries
07:05 < gene> I don't see how you could do this year round
07:05 < gene> how many other people do?
07:05 < fenn> not sure
07:06 < gene> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18624971.600
07:06 < gene> argh
07:06 < gene> they archived the article
07:06 < gene> those bastards
07:07 < gene> well if you fly an airplane in circles
07:07 < fenn> or TWO airplanes :)
07:08 < fenn> we can even get all 6 degrees of freedom with 3 airplanes
07:08 < fenn> well maybe not
07:08 < gene> with a long rope on it, you can fly around the rope, keeping the rope motionless, put a basket on the end and you have your self a delivery mechanism
07:08 < fenn> not sure it's quite so simple
07:09 < gene> it isn't but robots can do it
07:09 < gene> a UAV did it
07:10 < gene> the article talks about some fuzzy logic that does it
07:10 < fenn> hmm i guess two airplanes going in circles is sort of a distributed helicopter (catamarairplane?)
07:10 < gene> but it's archived
07:10 < gene> with ropes, insta tangle!
07:12 < gene> how do you know where to land?
07:13 < fenn> GPS combined with aerial survey maps, radar, and some teleoperators for backup
07:13 < gene> how do you prevent someone from stealing your airplane while it's on the ground
07:13 < fenn> it wouldn't be on the ground for long
07:14 < fenn> and if they did, it's not like we couldnt find it
07:14 < gene> ok
07:14 < fenn> unless they know exactly which chip and wire to desolder
07:14 < gene> I don't really see how this could take off, except for on a hobbyist level
07:15 < gene> they could throw tin foil over it
07:15 < fenn> vinge's idea was to have big artillery cannons that shoot projectiles with parachutes to a certain location
07:15 < gene> yeah but what about wind
07:15 < gene> and the cost of parachutes
07:15 < fenn> parachute has some smartness to get it to the right place, and it's ballasted with mass (probably water)
07:16 < fenn> parachutes are returned by recipient
07:16 < gene> how
07:16 < fenn> uh.. by providing a monetary incentive?
07:17 < fenn> at the post office or shopping mall or whatever
07:18 < fenn> people return cans and bottles for $0.05
07:18 < fenn> this could be much more
07:19 < gene> automated parachutes cost a lot
07:19 < fenn> says you
07:20 < gene> gps unit, radar(or laser scanner), smarts, actuators
07:22 < gene> gps receivers cost about $50
07:22 < gene> maybe you should consider laser guided parawings
07:23 < gene> or landing beacon guidance
07:23 < fenn> GPS will come down in cost a lot, but it's not even necessary, we could use regular old radio triangulation
07:23 < fenn> + webcam for recognizing landscape
07:23 < gene> I can't wait for that
07:24 < gene> what about snowy landscapes?
07:24 < fenn> radio gets you long range localization, webcam for precise localization
07:24 < fenn> what about them?
07:24 < fenn> we'll have airplanes flying over constantly remember? :)
07:24 < gene> things change
07:26 < gene> parawings are going to be expensive, unless you have a factory
07:28 < gene> hmmm... unless you use a rogallo wing
07:28 < gene> you might be able to make rogallo wings cheaply
07:29 < gene> though at that point you might want to make them into something like a glider an not a parachute
07:29 < gene> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pagrosse/h2orrecchute3.htm
07:29 < gene> make a parafoil
07:31 < fenn> airbags was another solution
07:31 < fenn> realistically you'd need both i think
07:31 < gene> both is expensive
07:31 < fenn> parachute to reduce impact damage if the airbag doesnt work, and to provide steering
07:32 < fenn> airbag so the parachute isnt ungodly huge
07:32 < gene> plus, airbags don't seem safe
07:32 < fenn> "reduce impact damage" to the surrounding environment i mean
07:32 < gene> how do you deploy the airbag
07:32 < fenn> uh, gunpowder?
07:32 < gene> most airbags us explosive charges
07:32 < fenn> or CO2
07:32 < gene> not gunpowder
07:32 < gene> CO cartriges are expensive
07:32 < fenn> bah
07:33 < gene> $12 for 5
07:33 < fenn> i dunno where you buy your cartridges
07:33 < fenn> anyway there's lots of options for inflating an airbag
07:33 < gene> cartidges are potentially reusable though
07:34 < gene> you could use helicopter recovery
07:34 < gene> like an autogyro
07:35 < gene> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/terriblesecret
07:35 < fenn> i don't do flash :P
07:39 < gene> anyway build one
08:03 < fenn> http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_spider%20minds.html
08:04 < fenn> non-evolved strategies and learning in spiders
15:11 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure2
15:59 -!- kanzure2 is now known as kanzure_
16:16 < kanzure_> A diamond-based biosensor for the recording of neuronal activity.
16:16 < kanzure_> http://www.personalweb.unito.it/paolo.ariano/ftp/articoli/Ariano08.pdf
16:27 < kanzure_> per om, http://www.techforce.com.br/index.php/news/linux_blog/scientific_study_about_debian_governance_and_organization
17:28 < bkero> Mmm cameras
17:56 < kanzure_> "MACHINISTS WANTED" "The demand for machinists is so great and the supply so limited in almost every city in the United States that many manufacturers have a standing offer with Vocational and Industrial Schools for the employment of all young men who have finished the machine-shop course."
17:57 < bkero> Haha
17:57 < bkero> I wonder if that means they pay well
17:58 < kanzure_> This was 1920.
17:58 < bkero> Ah
17:59 < kanzure_> I've found a cache of Really Good Stuff that I'm uploading at the moment. At an astonishingly slow 70 KB/sec. (Yesterday I was getting 700. Hrm..)
18:04 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/gingery/
18:04 < kanzure_> It's still unzipping, so be careful.
18:05 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/gingery.zip for the 60 MB zip.
18:52 < kanzure_> So, that's a good bunch of content that should be more thoroughly packaged at some point (along with mechmate.zip)
18:56 < kanzure_> http://sbml.org/Community/Programs <- small sbml scripts/programs to be added to their svn repo. I might submit some stuff..
19:07 < kanzure_> hm, maybe I should become a debian developer so that I can take a look at the code they're using to manage themselves.
19:07 < kanzure_> iirc, they're using lots of custom scripts to manage hoards of developers
19:07 < kanzure_> http://www.synbioproject.org/ uhg
19:07 < kanzure_> ugh
20:25 < kanzure_> fenn: > This is the commercial product I have been working on for the past three
20:25 < kanzure_> > years. It's a >$1mil  3000+ piece machine in the biotech space. When I say
20:25 < kanzure_> > the whole data vault or data set that defines the system I'm including
20:25 < kanzure_> > solidmodels, drawings, specifications, test plans, test reports, schematics
20:25 < kanzure_> > and board layouts, software source code, artwork, assembly work
20:25 < kanzure_> > instructions, purchasing specifications, etc. It's very large project
20:25 < kanzure_> > compared to say a bicycle, phone, or something on that scale, but small
20:25 < kanzure_> > compared to a car or an airplane. Just depends.
21:37 < kanzure_> hm
21:37 < kanzure_> I don't think I could be happier.
21:37 < kanzure_> gingery books are torrented now
21:37 < kanzure_> hm, not all of them
21:56 < kanzure_> I wonder where I should go if I wanted to read the automobile industry bailout proposal. Is this going to be on THOMAS as debate-stuff for the House?
21:57 < kanzure_> http://thomas.loc.gov/
21:57 < kanzure_> gene: any idea where I can read the automobile bailout proposal documents?
21:57 < gene> No
21:57 < kanzure_> I'm guessing it may or may not be on THOMAS.
21:57 < gene> why you want to apply for it?
21:57 < gene> is fenn there?
21:57 < kanzure_> " Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act "
21:58 < kanzure_> No, I want to read it and laugh
21:58 < kanzure_> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c110qfAC8X::
21:58 < gene> well it is good comedy
21:58 < gene> so I don't see why not
21:59 < gene> you might also want to read that iraq executive order thing that forbids people in Iraq from using nonregistered seeds
21:59 < gene> ie anything not from a big company
21:59 < gene> new IP law in Iraq
22:01 < gene> failed lol
22:02 < gene> http://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-titanium-thermite-bronze-age-and.html
22:03 < gene> need some titanium?
23:02 < kanzure_> "It has been a difficult decision, but we have decided not to continue work on Google Research Datasets, but to instead focus our efforts on other activities such as Google Scholar, our Research Programs, and publishing papers about research here at Google."
23:02 < kanzure_> "
23:02 < kanzure_> The Google Research Datasets service will remain active until the end of January 2009 during which time any datasets may be downloaded. For those datasets that are impractical to download, we will also happily provide interested users with a copy via hard drive shipment."
23:28 < ybit> just tried out the asus eee pc, wow, that keyboard is small. anyone know of something similar with a not so small keyboard?
23:29 < ybit> tragic news kanzure_
23:37 < ybit> bkero: didn't you have an ideapad?
23:37 < ybit> can't remember, it was a lenovo something
23:39 < ybit> i'm betting all these type notebooks have too small of a keyboard for my taste
23:48 < bkero> ybit: I don't have a lenovo.
23:48 -!- drazak_ is now known as drazak
23:48 < bkero> ybit: I got a dell mini, it has a pretty good size keyboard.
23:49 < ybit> hmm, i will have to test it out
23:58 < bkero> Do you have hands like a gorilla?