--- Day changed Sun Jan 18 2009
00:00 < kanzure3> fenn, did I send you the Saul Griffith calculations?
00:00 < fenn> dunno, i dont remember seeing it
00:00 < kanzure3> something about needing an olympic-sized stadium of algae every 2 seconds to maintain growing rates of energy demand of human civilization.
00:01 < genehacker> well I got a use for algae
00:01 < kanzure3> "Half a terawatt of biofuels?  Something like one Olympic swimming pools of genetically engineered algae, installed every second.  (About 15,250 square miles a year, times 25.)"
00:01 < kanzure3> ^ at that rate you have to worry about the amount of phosphorous being redirected out of the local environment
00:02 < kanzure3> s/phosphorous/phosphorous and other elements and their systems/
00:02 < genehacker> biofuel is a temporary solution
00:02 < kanzure3> (since you're dealing with exponentials)
00:02 < genehacker> the killer app for algae is feeding cows
00:03 < genehacker> or maybe synth meat
00:03 < kanzure3> fenn: fwd'd.
00:04 < fenn> ah yes i saw the soda bottle calculations in make magazine
00:04 < fenn> bottle contains more energy than the soda
00:04 < genehacker> damn WD 40 isn't fish oil
00:05 < fenn> snake skin isn't alligator hide!
00:05 < genehacker> I wanted to sell algae for WD 40
00:05 < kanzure3> speaking of make, did you see that I got a hold of Zach Hoecken (thingiverse)? and that the ponoko CEO wants to do packaging formats too?
00:05 < genehacker> unrelated
00:05 < fenn> havent got to OM yet
00:05 < kanzure3> oomlaut was a bit hostile to my approach though.
00:06 < kanzure3> alec mentioned some passing interest in my correspondence with him..
00:06 < kanzure3> well, a bit more than passing.
00:06 < genehacker> so I did some calculations a while back too, it would take less energy to make an equal amount of diamond than it would of plastic
00:07 < fenn> wtf is wrong with nuclear power?
00:07 < fenn> you never EVER see a detailed analysis of the environmental effects of nuclear power in popular print
00:07 < genehacker> nothing, chernobly just freaked people out
00:08 < genehacker> did you hear about that neighborhood nuclear reactor company fenn, they're sold out for 3 years
00:08 < genehacker> they can't keep up with demand
00:09 < fenn> is it a beta battery? or some kind of thermoelectric thing?
00:09 < fenn> RTG
00:09 < genehacker> a bona fide nuclear reactor I think
00:09 < kanzure3> wtf, keeping up with demand is easy 
00:10 < kanzure3> sounds to me like mostly an architectural issue with their business model ..
00:10 < kanzure3> not scaling fast enough..
00:10 < fenn> "building nuclear reactors is easy" really
00:10 < genehacker> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1993
00:10 < genehacker> 25 mW for 40 years
00:10 < kanzure3> didn't say it was easy
00:10 < kanzure3> but they are also not sprinkling magic into it
00:11 < kanzure3> nor should they be making custom designs each time, so ..
00:11 < genehacker> building nuclear reactors is easy, building safe ones on the other hand...
00:12 < kanzure3> http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1094497&cid=26489733 "That's what SOA aims at: interchangeable components in systems. You're not crafting one big program, or complex of programs, from end-to-end, making it up as you go. You're building uniformly-structured and interchangeable components, and assembling them."
00:12 < kanzure3> "You mean... like Unix?"
00:12 < kanzure3> *cough* http://heybryan.org/shell.html *cough* not quite implemented anywhere to my knowledge .. not even SOA, WSDL, B2B, shells, debs, ..
00:13 < genehacker> speaking of uniform components I've been having second thoughts about making a replicator out of legos
00:13 < genehacker> fuck legos, I can make my own blocks
00:14 < genehacker> designing the blocks is the hard part
00:15 < kanzure3> genehacker: so, you remember the recent two-actor ribozyme replication duo, right?
00:15 < genehacker> yes, yes
00:15 < kanzure3> in the article it said there was something like 30 bits of information that could be channeled into each of the designs.
00:15 < genehacker> that's why I want to use blocks
00:15 < kanzure3> hold on a sec though
00:15 < kanzure3> this is a two-actor system and the set of things that they can make is going to be physically limited
00:16 < kanzure3> it's a very big possibility space though, I'd give you that
00:16 < fenn> two-actor system?
00:16 < kanzure3> that's the "minimal cell" or "minimal program" approach
00:16 < genehacker> yeah, I want to make a build system though with parts like pipes, linear bearings
00:16 < kanzure3> fenn: there were two complementary replication agents working together. polymerase and 
00:17 < genehacker> two actor system, one does the replication, one provides the information to replicate
00:17 < kanzure3> well. my brain just shut off apparently
00:17 < fenn> ok, von neumann cellular automata basically
00:17 < genehacker> yeah
00:17 < genehacker> something like that I guess
00:18 < kanzure3> anyway, my point was going to be about the alternative to starting from the bottom
00:18 < genehacker> I'm not familar with von neumann cellular automata
00:18 < kanzure3> from the small starting set of those 30 bits of information (actually it's not 2-bit, and it's not 4-bit either because there are some strings of 4-bits that are practically chemically equivalent)
00:19 < kanzure3> you could try to extract and draw out, say, a human, or a giraffe from those bits 
00:19 < kanzure3> and try to stuff as much non-directly-replication-design-stuff as possible, trying to figure out how to make it work in that model
00:19 < kanzure3> or
00:19 < genehacker> well the advantage of designing a build system, is that we can sell it as a toy to fund research
00:19 < fenn> it's 2d, there's a machine sort of like a turing machine that moves around the digital space in response to commands on a tape (also represented in the digital space) and it can change the value of a  state at will (sort of like creating/destroying legos)
00:20 < kanzure3> you go the other way: you already have your machine shop prototyped and can just trace the dependencies
00:20 < kanzure3> fenn: maybe you can see the point that I was going to highlight
00:20 < kanzure3> but it's not an important one at the moment, just thought like mentioning it.
00:20 < genehacker> the Charles Collins replicator is a physical manifestation of that, a way too literal physical manifestation
00:21 < genehacker> yeah I know
00:21 < fenn> DNA is quad, even if the conversion to amino acids is redundant
00:21 < kanzure3> blah, fine.
00:21 < fenn> 3-quad code
00:21 < genehacker> I wouldn't make that comparison
00:21 < genehacker> heh have you heard about tricore chips?
00:22  * kanzure3 is running a quadcore.
00:22 < genehacker> you know what a tricore chip is?
00:22 < fenn> can they vote on the answer? :)
00:22 < kanzure3> we call that a race condition
00:22 < fenn> super duals or sucky quad-cores?
00:22 < genehacker> it's a quadcore with a defective core cut out
00:22 < genehacker> really
00:22 < genehacker> that's what it is
00:22 < fenn> ok now they just need to scale that concept
00:23 < fenn> by about ten orders of magnitude
00:23 < fenn> "i'll take a wafer, thank you"
00:23 < genehacker> you can fenn, just ask them, some hand em out for free
00:23 < genehacker> I got one in my room
00:23 < fenn> eh? like the pope?
00:24 < fenn> i have some defective large silicon dies (dice?) from electronic goldmine..
00:24 < genehacker> heh, I'm sure in the church of saint turing they will
00:24 < fenn> the probability of a defect goes up with area, so that's why large chips are much more expensive
00:24 < genehacker> I have a silicon wafer with the chips made on it, makes a cool diffraction pattern when you shine a laser on it
00:25 < genehacker> a laser which I happened to break :(
00:25 < fenn> but if yo have a large number of identical/commodity elements on the chip that you can route around, you might as well use the whole wafer as a supercomputer
00:26 < genehacker> well you see fenn, you have to cut them, then you have to package them, then you have to do a little dance
00:27 < genehacker> btw, does anyone have any HD-DVD drives they are  willing to give me?
00:29 < genehacker> cutting them out could be expensive
00:29 < fenn> the wafer's already cut, into a wafer
00:29 < fenn> so you just have to bond wires to the edges and do some magic re-routing foo in the silicon
00:30 < fenn> flip chip packaging would probably be best
00:30 < genehacker> you gotta package them fenn
00:30 < fenn> i dont understand
00:30 < genehacker> you gotta get rid of heat
00:30 < fenn> of course
00:30 < fenn> however, if you arent using sucky x86 processors... there is much less heat
00:30 < genehacker> interesting idea though
00:31 < genehacker> you gotta get rid of heat
00:31 < fenn> ok well I dont see what "packaging" has to do with that
00:32 < fenn> for example, why can't I just use aluminum substrate PCB and conduct heat through the solder connections?
00:32 < genehacker> give it a try, if you can solder to them
00:33 < genehacker> do you have a really accurate CNC machine?
00:33 < fenn> i think it has copper on the top layer, "metal core"
00:33 < fenn> no, i dont have a functioning CNC at all right now
00:33 < genehacker> oh packaging also helps prevent tiny bits of metal from shorting your chip out
00:35 < fenn> chip surface would be pressed up against the circuit board (and probably sealed around edges with epoxy)
00:35 < genehacker> solder a chip to a circuit board, then we can talk
00:36 < fenn> i dont have any chips with solder
00:36 < fenn> i'm talking mass production, not DIY stuff
00:37 < genehacker> the connections are very very small
00:37 < genehacker> oh
00:37 < genehacker> ok
00:37 < genehacker> well it looks like it might be interesting to try
00:38 < fenn> it's basically the same idea I had for self assembling DNA-tile FPGA's
00:38 < genehacker> haven't heard that one
00:38 < genehacker> hey we could form a company around this
00:39 < kanzure> *facepalm*
00:39 < kanzure> sometimes I feel like a ghost around here.
00:40 < genehacker> maybe you are
00:40 < genehacker> how do you know you aren't?
00:40 -!- fenn changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: no philosophy, please
00:40 < genehacker> oh shoot forgot about that
00:41 < genehacker> so how can we design replicatable super-blocks?
00:43 < fenn> start by defining what you mean by replicatable
00:44 < genehacker> easy to replicate
00:46 < fenn> -_-
00:48 < genehacker> capable of replication, particulary fast replication
00:55 < genehacker> I'm thinking something along the lines of modular robots
00:55 < fenn> bitcoin: promoting the largest waste of CPU power, ever!
01:02 < kanzure> welp, there goes my entire bubble of safety. /home/bryan/dad/Dad's Files/Brett's Bar and Grill/Apogee Publishing/Projects/Nascency/artificial-intelligence-risk[1].pdf
01:02 < kanzure> that's a paper written by Eli :(
01:03 < genehacker> ???
01:06 < genehacker> http://www.roblocks.org/
01:06 < genehacker> if only magnets weren't so hard to replicate
01:08 < genehacker> it'd be interesting if neodymium magnets occurred in nature, be interesting to see what would evolve 
01:08 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/dad/Biography.html <- found in his archives.
01:10 < genehacker> ok
01:10 < genehacker> AI probably won't be that dangerous
01:10 < kanzure> orly?
01:11 < genehacker> if we can get it to think it's a human too
01:11 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/eli.html <- within his system of thought, he's absolutely completely correct. But read that page for the actual objections.
01:11 < kanzure> no.
01:12 < genehacker> I detect philosophy
01:16 < fenn> hmm roblocks looks cool but i dont know why they tried to make "programming" blocks
01:17 < genehacker> for the kids
01:17 < fenn> there was some open source project to make swivel blocks like in that hod lipson video
01:18 < fenn> with cad files etc
01:18 < genehacker> I think that is or was roblocks
01:18 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:18 < kanzure> I haven't seen that one.
01:18 < fenn> they were making the blocks with some sort of RP machine
01:18 < fenn> it was university based, they definitely didnt have a "catalog"
01:19 < fenn> hmm CMU maybe it was the same site
01:19 < genehacker> well roblocks are made with an RP machine
01:19 < kanzure> *cough* LCD on the third image..
01:20 < kanzure> unless you rapid prototype LCDs now?
01:20 < genehacker> ???
01:20 < genehacker> the plastic is
01:20 < genehacker> http://www.molecubes.org/
01:20 < genehacker> is this it?
01:20 < fenn> no it was a different site.. after looking at archive.org
01:21 < fenn> yes molecubes.org
01:21 < kanzure> say, I remember this one
01:21 < kanzure> it's been mentioned in here before methinks
01:21 < genehacker> Hod Lipson is involved with that
01:23 < fenn> ah cool it's wei-min shen's group
01:23 < genehacker> so what we really need is a way to connect cubes together, and stick without magnets
01:23 < kanzure> .. that's what the interop stuff has been about
01:23 < kanzure> but I'm merely a ghost
01:23 < kanzure> don't bother listening to me.
01:23 < kanzure> ~~~~~~
01:23 < genehacker> interop?
01:24 < kanzure> interoperability
01:24 < genehacker> oh
01:24 < kanzure> intercompatibility
01:24 < fenn> hunting of the snark
01:24 < kanzure> huh?
01:24 < genehacker> how do you achieve it?
01:24 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shell.html has some notes.
01:24 < kanzure> debtags is one partial solution, but they wimped out kinda
01:25 < fenn> genehacker: dovetails with locking tabs works
01:25 < fenn> genehacker: i have these tiny boxes for storing SMD components
01:25 < kanzure> I must be thinking of a different level here
01:25 < kanzure> surely there is more than just mechanical linkages to consider
01:25 < kanzure> unless you're interested in doing a totally restrictive regime (ex: legos)
01:26 < genehacker> think something that a blind person wearing mitts could assemble
01:26 < kanzure> ("all things must have these dots to this precision")
01:26 < fenn> heh anders always shows up in my image searches: http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/bilder/box.jpg
01:26 < genehacker> yeah we need something ajdjustable
01:26 < fenn> why adjustable?
01:26 < kanzure> lego = "planned economy"
01:26 < kanzure> *legos
01:27 < fenn> nothing wrong with planned economies
01:27 < genehacker> so you aren't restricted to the dots
01:27 < kanzure> right, legos are good, but we suddelny realize at some point that we want more than plastic lego bricks to connect together, and we realize that we can't replan it all (since we're not lego)
01:27 < fenn> how often does that issue really come up?
01:28 < kanzure> recipe substitution.
01:28 < fenn> but you dont have to replan it all, you just need the source code and build capability
01:28 < genehacker> what do you mean we aren't lego?
01:28 < kanzure> take the "100% fractal automation" bullshit article from the other day
01:28 < fenn> and then you make a DIP-14 brick or whatever
01:28 < kanzure> they were doing top down centralized planning for everything
01:28 < kanzure> their bricks incorporated the pipes, wires, etc., built into the bricks 
01:29 < kanzure> now if you wanted something new
01:29 < kanzure> the entire standards would have to be updated
01:29 < kanzure> and probably the old stuff too..
01:29 < fenn> no way
01:29 < fenn> look at NXT
01:29 < fenn> it's still backwards compatible
01:29 < genehacker> well we can make lego "monster bricks" we have the technology
01:30 < genehacker> we can remake lego in our own image
01:30 < fenn> I don't
01:30 < kanzure> backwards compatibility is not reusability. it's legacy maintenance..
01:30 < fenn> most people don't realize the amount of work that goes into Lego injection mould dies
01:30 < fenn> the die makers are treated like priests I hear
01:30 < genehacker> fenn we have free 3d printer acess
01:31 < fenn> is that good enough to make legos?
01:31 < kanzure> fenn: why doesn't Google have their own lego line?
01:31 < fenn> because they are software people?
01:31 < kanzure> they're the ones that played with legos though
01:31 < fenn> huh?
01:31 < genehacker> the SLS printer can print a very detailed  locket
01:31 < kanzure> isn't lego-fandom a requirement to employability at Google?
01:31 < fenn> possibly..
01:32 < fenn> i think you also have to use a macbook and wear thick rimmed glasses
01:32 < kanzure> ew.
01:32 < genehacker> think about it, if we make legos grow on tree...
01:32 < kanzure> genehacker: are you having a separate conversation right now?
01:32 < kanzure> heh
01:32 < genehacker> cool I have two qualifications for google employment
01:33 < kanzure> fenn: would debian count as a planned economy?
01:33 < fenn> yes
01:34 < kanzure> yet individual packages aren't really.
01:34 < fenn> it doesn't fit the metaphor perfectly
01:34 < kanzure> in legos, it seems to be top-down novelty stuff going on
01:34 < kanzure> (top-down as in corporate management bosses stuffs)
01:34 < fenn> debian is an aggregator.. there isnt really any equivalent in economics except maybe feudalism
01:35 < genehacker> well, I'm going to jack out now guys, so good night
01:35 < fenn> ciao babe
01:35 < kanzure> one day we'll all have the same conversation at once, and it will be good
01:36 < genehacker> chatrooms aren't very productive
01:36 < kanzure> meh, that's questionable
01:37 < kanzure> fenn: "how often does that issue come up?" <- I think that could also be asked as "how often do projects break their debian packages, or don't quite fit the model"
01:40 < fenn> ah finally found the configurable boxes http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.4580
01:40 < kanzure> constructal theory: all of the most inefficient decisions are made the most frequently in a flow system (i..e, in human transportation, it's individual decisions, rather than mass transit as a norm), same with packaging, and tools to help make better decisions for packaging even in the absence of all out 'instruction formats' and interoperability of parts, would be nice.
01:40 < fenn> they snap together, hold firmly, and come apart easily with the proper massaging
01:40 < fenn> and there are other sizes
01:40 < fenn> seems the concept could be extended to other stuff than just boxes
01:41 < fenn> it's hard to see from the pictures but there's a tapered dovetail
01:41 < fenn> the taper is slightly an interference fit, so the plastic flexes a tiny bit and makes it a snug connection
01:42 < kanzure3> nice.
01:42 < fenn> tools to help make better decisions for packaging... well, that sounds like skdb
01:43 < fenn> to be compatible with the widest variety of parts requires comparing to an inhumanly large set of other things you might want to connect to
01:43 < fenn> on the other hand i just want to bomb a bunch of chinese factories that make single purpose consumer crap that isnt compatible with anything
01:44 < fenn> and just force everyone to use standard parts
01:44 < kanzure3> with the 'instruction format' though, you don't need to "help" make decisions, that can be all automated away mostly
01:44 < fenn> instruction format == recipe?
01:44 < kanzure3> but I'm wondering about what specifically in the absence of that since the instructions/recipe-substitution stuff (ability to snap different abstract parts together, whatever standards they might beu sing)
01:44 < kanzure3> yes
01:44 < kanzure3> sorry
01:44 < kanzure3> I'm kind of talking about three things but it's the same thing
01:45 < kanzure3> instructions, recipes, and the interoperability all reference the same shell.html stuff (the dselect select-your-own-usage-of-the-program-or-part/tool)
01:46 < kanzure3> yn
01:46 < fenn> software has gotten away with a lot of cruft because it's so easy to replicate and storage space is expanding faster than we can fill it with code
01:46 < fenn> but with hardware we can't assume that you'll have some archaic editor from the 70's
01:46 < kanzure3> um, absence of that (since the .. doesn't exist nor can I hack out a demo)
01:46 < kanzure3> ^ add a * somewhere in that last message.
01:47 < kanzure3> (beginning) (this is only making my attempt to correct an error even worse)
01:47 < fenn> so, what you're saying is.. ?
01:47 < fenn> I liked that kanzure guy better
01:47 < fenn> he seemed to make sense
01:47 < fenn> some of the time at least
01:48 < fenn> perhaps you need meta-instructions to explain how to use the instructions, like DTD
01:48 < kanzure3> given no instruction/recipe format or ability to do interoperability/intercompatibility at the moment, and nothing better than the original dimensional analysis of the ability of things to interconnect, 
01:48 < kanzure3> what tools for helping making sound packaging decisions could we come up with?
01:49 < fenn> packaging decisions meaning what?
01:51 < kanzure3> *what tools for helping to make these parts/tools datasets useful could we come up with, from the point of view of a package maintainer who doesn't necessarily see "the larger picture"?
01:51 < kanzure3> I don't think that helps though, hrm.
01:51 < fenn> you're familiar with providing a comparison function for sorting lists right?
01:52 < kanzure3> list1 > list2?
01:52 < fenn> i think we need to provide comparison functions for interface compatibility
01:52 < kanzure3> so, what, "this part accepts IETF standard RJ45"
01:52 < fenn> like, if you wanted to sort colors you would lookup the color name in some table, find the RGB values, convert to HSV, then compare the H values of two colors
01:53 < fenn> i think there has to be some physical simulation involveed
01:53 < kanzure3> this just seems to be "tagging the inputs and outputs, and then checking if the tags of a possible machine to connect to overlaps with the input/output of the other machine"
01:54 < fenn> if the blackbox data already fits we wouldnt need to provide a function.. this is like how we dont need to write a comparison function for sorting numbers
01:54 < kanzure3> machine 1: inputs (a, b, c) outputs (x, y, z)
01:54 < kanzure3> machine 2: inputs (x, y, z) outputs (a, b, c)
01:54 < kanzure3> machine1.out matches machine2.in
01:54 < kanzure3> where a,b,c,x,y,z would be tags for standards
01:54 < kanzure3> but doesn't this inherent the fundamental suckness of debtags?
01:54 < fenn> no that's blackboxing, and requires lots of coordination and standards
01:54 < fenn> (and work)
01:55 < fenn> tags are useful, for some things
01:55 < kanzure3> I need you to elaborate on the alternative in this situation then, because tags don't solve it.
01:56 < fenn> there must be some low level standard representation for physical quantities that everyone can agree on
01:56 < fenn> everything else is just semantics
01:56 < fenn> by which i mean "incompatible choice of words"
01:56 < kanzure3> but but then you just get to my crappy code where I was saying "input: 7 m^2" (of space)
01:57 < fenn> if you really only need some arbitrary 7m^2 of area, then what's the problem?
01:57 < fenn> if it must be planar, then you need to describe the plane with more constraints
01:57 < kanzure3> hrm, I suppose taking a hint from django and GNU autoproject would be nifty there .. deploy the common measurement utilities to make sure you have your workbench setup and stuff
01:58 < kanzure3> ok, blackbox that and assume that's fine
01:58 < fenn> "tabletop" can be decomposed into a number of attributes, like normal vector (up) surface hardness, rigidity, impact resistance etc
01:58 < kanzure3> didn't we have some GUID funkyness with the materials class?
01:58 < fenn> so then you can look at other surfaces and see if they fit the requirements of a tabletop
01:59 < kanzure3> right
01:59 < fenn> but you only have to specify "tabletop" in the package requirements
01:59 < fenn> all the magic happens invisibly
01:59 < fenn> bleh
01:59 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:59 < fenn> do you see how this is different from tags?
02:00 < parodyoflanguage> No philosophy? Aw.. :)
02:00 < kanzure3> well, yes, but no
02:01 < kanzure3> IEEE 1994 input isn't specified by dimensional units..
02:01 < kanzure3> I am not being coherent am I?
02:01 < fenn> it gets around the standards problem by encoding the standard in dimensional units, and comparing the units
02:01 < kanzure3> 59.2 IEEE 1994s
02:01 < fenn> i believe signals can be represented by units and code
02:01 < fenn> what is IEEE 1994?
02:02 < kanzure3> firewire?
02:02 < kanzure3> 1394?
02:02 < fenn> ya
02:02 < kanzure3> yep, 1394. sorry about that.
02:02 < fenn> so, firewire is both a protocol and an electronic signal and a set of connectors and cabling
02:03 < fenn> the protocol is software and can be represented with BNF?
02:03 < fenn> surely there must be some universal protocol representation language
02:03 < kanzure3> when you go buy a plastic-wrapped device off of Amazon, you get a list of tags of what it supports (IEEE 1394, RCJ 45, ...)
02:03 < kanzure3> hm.
02:04 < fenn> you get tags from amazon?
02:04 < kanzure3> well, no,
02:04 < kanzure3> but it's in the product descriptions
02:04 < kanzure3> usually in a list or something
02:04 < fenn> oh
02:04 < kanzure3> and thus how stuff shows up in search results
02:04 < kanzure3> a list on the side of the box, etc. like food labels.
02:05 < fenn> almost useful info.. sigh
02:08 < fenn> so, i hope whoever is making packages for representing protocols and electrical signals will look at what software libraries exist already before they start reinventing the wheel
02:08 < fenn> oh, there has to be some base geometry classes too
02:09 < kanzure3> don't know if you took a look at ECIX when I was ranting about it the other day
02:09 < kanzure3> electronic component packaging XML standard stuff.
02:09 < kanzure3> (electronics being the golden standard of everything, all hail the electronics software people)
02:10 < fenn> i suppose they already have a signal format/ontology
02:11 < kanzure3> when you're pushing things you can't see, you go hire thinkers to think abstractly for you anyway
02:11 < fenn> wait, this is b2b stuff
02:11 < kanzure3> so maybe that's why that happened
02:11 < kanzure3> oh, is it?
02:12 < kanzure3> I thought I saw stuff like pin geometries, timing diagrams,
02:12 < kanzure3> Electronic Component Information Exchange
02:12 < kanzure3> http://archives.si2.org/si2_publications/#ECIX_Electronic_Component_Information
02:12 < fenn> yeah digging through that
02:14 < kanzure3> http://archives.si2.org/si2_publications/ecix/pdf/ecixquickvcdemo.pdf
02:14 < fenn> i think they just reference the relevant standard
02:14 < fenn> it's not a standards format
02:15 < fenn> god that's barely even a relational database
02:16 < fenn> this is more the sort of thing i'm interested in http://archives.si2.org/si2_publications/pinpak/Specs/ECPinPak1.0.pdf
02:17 < kanzure3> yep
02:21 < fenn> it really sucks that standards orgs are so closed
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11:51 < kanzure3> http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/Python/ldraw/
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14:47 < genehacker> you there kanzure?
14:48 < kanzure> yes
14:58 < genehacker> want to make a reprap sometime this year?
15:05 < kanzure> sure.
15:46 < kanzure> yay
15:46 < kanzure> ponoko ceo wants to do apt-get for hardware
16:01 < genehacker> ok what do you think about forming an Austin Reprap User Group(RUG)
16:01 < kanzure> why only reprap
16:01 < kanzure> I mean, that's what the Austin Robot Group is for really
16:01 < kanzure> they're the guys that have been working on repraps anyway..
16:02 < genehacker> they're working on repraps?
16:02 < kanzure> a few of their members, yes.
16:02 < genehacker> good point
16:02 < kanzure> like I said, they commonly bring up desktop cnc machines to the meetings..
16:02 < genehacker> I was thinking of working with the actlab people
16:02 < kanzure> so they're on the same wavelength.
16:03 < kanzure> nothing wrong with the actlab people
16:03 < genehacker> they aren't engineers
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16:04 < genehacker> how did I leave?
16:05 < genehacker> so how small can a CNC be and still be useful?
16:08 < genehacker> now who to ask in actlab about building a reprap?
16:08 < kanzure> sandy and brandon
16:08 < genehacker> thanks
16:11 < genehacker> I think I'll just email the whole actlab
16:11 < kanzure> mention my name and cc me please :)
16:13 < genehacker> how do you want to be mentioned?
16:13 < kanzure> positively?
16:13 < kanzure> what are you asking them anyway
16:16 < genehacker> if they'd be interested in finishing the reprap they tried to build
16:18 < kanzure> ponoko is *really really* excited about this.
16:20 < genehacker> about what?
16:20 < kanzure> skdb
16:20 < genehacker> about your SKDB?
16:29 < genehacker> so I'll say you're interested in the project too
16:33 < genehacker> I can't think of a way to mention you
16:42 < genehacker> actlab email is broken
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17:12 < genehacker> emailed Sandy
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19:40 < genehacker> hey you know of any facial recognition software kanzure?
19:40 < kanzure> opencv or opencp or openmp
19:40 < kanzure> it's one of those heh'
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21:48 < kanzure3> oh god.
21:48 < genehacker> ???
21:49 < kanzure3> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=132480
21:49 < genehacker> centimeter sized sheets of graphene
21:49 < kanzure3> you'll note that I submitted a patch on 2009-01-03
21:49 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/projects/browsehack/tabtabtab.html
21:49 < kanzure3> you'll note that I apparently made a patch on 2008-05-26
21:49 < kanzure3> completely forgot about that ..
21:49 < kanzure3> <-- has repeated his own work :(
21:50 < kanzure3> compare: (2008-05-26 patch) http://heybryan.org/projects/browsehack/2008-05-26.diff to (2009-01-03 patch) http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=29847
21:50 < genehacker> http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/17/2341232
21:52 < genehacker> shit happens, I recently burnt out an expensive laser that I almost broke from shorting a nine volt batter across it and a trimpot
21:53 < genehacker> broke it when I forgot to short out the capacitor in the driver before hooking it up
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