--- Day changed Fri Jan 23 2009 00:00 < fenn> i should make a babington oil-fired water heater 00:00 < fenn> and heat my house with it 00:26 < genehacker> no, you should make a water heater fired with junk mail 00:48 -!- emlyno [n=emlyn@eth13582.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121622]"] 01:15 < wrldpc> um .. anyone else see the ad in the Metro today for the "hi-tech" Amish-made free space heaters? 01:16 < fenn> we dont live in the same region 01:16 * fenn points at the internet 01:17 < fenn> what does an amish space heater look like? 01:17 < genehacker> yeah, the amish space heaters are really really crappy from what I hear 01:18 < genehacker> http://blogs.chron.com/consumerwatch/2008/01/amish_heater_not_a_hot_item.html 01:18 < wrldpc> lol 01:18 < wrldpc> http://www.goodcleantech.com/heat%20surge%20fireplace%20amish.jpg 01:19 < genehacker> I wonder if I can get a handmade pneumatic powered amish computer 02:11 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@jes-128-62-129-128.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:50 < fenn> kanzure, want me to distill that inventory comparison down to something that makes sense? 02:51 < fenn> if it's even possible 02:52 < fenn> looks like emachineshop is "the complete set" 02:53 < fenn> it's a list of processes though, not equipment 02:54 < fenn> hmm maybe not, they dont have a vinyl cutter or similar 03:01 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: boogles, ferrouswheel, ybit, Overand, Phreedom, UtopiahGHML, bkero, wrldpc, procto, nsh-, (+1 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 03:02 -!- Netsplit over, joins: wrldpc, nsh-, ferrouswheel, Phreedom, procto, Overand, boogles, bkero, fenn, ybit (+1 more) 03:31 < fenn> ooo plutocracy looks ripe for the stealing 03:31 < fenn> basis for building smirf 08:47 < kanzure3> wrldpc: I've seen those ads on tv :( 08:47 < kanzure3> fenn: yes please. 08:52 -!- samrose [n=samrose@99.147.180.206] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:05 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@jes-128-62-129-128.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:27 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@jes-128-62-129-128.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=klh@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:14 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-174-19.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:14 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-174-19.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:14 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-174-19.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:39 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=klh@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [] 13:58 -!- samrose [n=samrose@99.147.180.206] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:47 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:09 -!- ferrouswheel [n=jp@121-73-144-159.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:26 -!- ferrouswheel [n=jp@121-73-144-159.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:47 -!- ferrouswheel [n=jp@121-73-144-159.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:03 < genehacker> kanzure do you have a multimeter? 16:03 < genehacker> a good one 16:04 < genehacker> one with a diode test function 16:17 < genehacker> or do you have a big resistor? 16:28 -!- ferrouswheel [n=jp@121-73-144-159.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:19 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit [] 18:29 < kanzure> No. Just a crap one. 18:42 < genehacker> nevermind 18:43 < genehacker> what there aren't any AWESOME electronic surplus stores around here? 18:44 < fenn> only in san diego and tokyo 18:44 < fenn> and shenzhen if that counts.. 18:44 < genehacker> there was an awesome electronics store where I used to live 18:44 < genehacker> but nothing like tokyo 18:45 < genehacker> where are the awesome surplus stores in san diego? 18:45 < fenn> dunno i've never been there 18:45 < genehacker> I've seen a fry's with a tesla coil, but never anything cool 18:46 < genehacker> down there 18:46 < genehacker> though they have The computer history museum 18:50 < genehacker> you should go sometime 18:50 < genehacker> ever seen magnetic core memory in real life? 18:51 < kanzure> fenn: so I went in to ADL today to do fumble around on the machines 18:51 < kanzure> and there's a new file format that the other universities want me to generate 18:51 < kanzure> it essentially amounts to a list of 136 different component names 18:51 < kanzure> and then a boolean value as to whether or not that component is present in the design 18:51 < kanzure> :( 18:52 < kanzure> and then some vector math on that. :( 18:52 < genehacker> that's sort of like legos 18:52 < kanzure> how? 18:52 < kanzure> this is one of the most terrible ideas I've ever heard 18:52 < fenn> it's "digital" :P 18:52 < kanzure> the "slightly more complicated version" is a table where the columns are the 136 different components, and the columns are too, 18:52 < genehacker> I think I misinterepreted 18:52 < kanzure> so if you have "gear" connected to an "engine", the intersection would have a '1' 18:53 < kanzure> or if there's more than 1, you'd ++. 18:53 < fenn> adjacency matrix == graph 18:53 < kanzure> not really, 18:53 < fenn> why not? 18:53 < kanzure> imagine that you have 2 engine-to-gear occurences 18:53 < kanzure> but the engine-to-gear in one case connects to something else 18:53 < fenn> oh well that's just a stupid way to write your matrix, that's all 18:53 < kanzure> it' stupid overall. 18:53 < kanzure> who the hell determined 136? 18:53 < fenn> it's specified in the talmud 18:54 < genehacker> whoever rolled the 200-d 18:54 < fenn> talmud: oldest role playing game evar! 18:54 < genehacker> hahahahahahaha 18:55 < genehacker> http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/07/airknife.html 18:56 < genehacker> is sharpened wedge a component? 18:56 < genehacker> what about wings? 18:56 < kanzure> nope, nope 18:56 < kanzure> this is why it's a bad idea. 18:56 < genehacker> name some of the components 18:57 < kanzure> I don't have the list in front of me 18:57 < kanzure> oh wait, one sec 18:58 < genehacker> hmmm... so maybe several different daemons each design their own solution to the problem and then argue over which one is the best 18:58 < kanzure> brusher, diverger, nozzle, housing, electric cord, carousel, conveyor, belt, clutch, extension, shaft, heat exchanger, hinge, tube, diode, bearing, link, sled, .. 18:59 < kanzure> fwd'd to both of you 18:59 < genehacker> what's a brusher? 18:59 < kanzure> dunno 19:00 < kanzure3> http://voiced.device.mst.edu/groups/VisualizeIT/weblog/80da7/attachments/350a6/component_terms.pdf 19:00 < kanzure3> there's the PDF .. 19:01 < kanzure> I immediately told the doc how stupid this is 19:01 < fenn> because a housing is certainly not a heat exchanger is totally different from a tube 19:01 < kanzure> totally. 19:01 < fenn> oh, no i really dont want to look at it, thanks 19:02 < fenn> has anyone seen my xmms? 19:02 < kanzure> no? 19:02 < kanzure> xmms uninstalled itself on my system, I have to go hunt it down in backports 19:02 < kanzure> (I just have xmms2 and audacious, and audacious sucks) 19:02 < fenn> do you know what happened? wtf 19:02 < genehacker> actuator? 19:02 < genehacker> why not use muscle wire 19:03 < kanzure> genehacker: I think you're missing the point. 19:03 < genehacker> have fun 19:03 < genehacker> bye 19:03 < kanzure> but don't you get it? 19:03 < kanzure> I mean, this is a *bad* idea 19:04 < kanzure> because you can't possibly make a global universal ontology 19:04 < kanzure> without pointing a gun to everyone's head 19:08 < kanzure> ok, anyway 19:10 < fenn> ah well at least audacious looks sorta interchangeable 19:10 < fenn> unlike the awful crap i saw for xmms2-client 19:10 < kanzure> I've found it functionally lacking 19:11 < kanzure> there's a way to tell apt-get to ignore the xmms dependencies or something 19:11 < kanzure> like, if you go manually dpkg -i it, 19:11 < kanzure> and then set in your aliases for apt-get to always ignore it 19:11 < kanzure> but this is so much of a hack. I don't know what's wrong with xmms in the first place. 19:14 < fenn> it's a conspiracy 19:14 < fenn> that's the only possible explanation 19:15 < fenn> i am sort of annoyed that it uninstalled and i didnt know 19:15 < fenn> presumably apt-get told me at some point 19:16 < kanzure> hm, xmms is not in etch-backports. 19:24 < fenn> lol "We are not an XMMS clone. Architecturally, Audacious is much different than XMMS, it just sorta looks like XMMS, which I think sends the wrong message, but whatever. The fact is that we do not consider ourselves to be an XMMS clone or an XMMS replacement, and you should strongly consider that before removing XMMS and providing a transitive upgrade path to audacious. 19:29 < kanzure> if I had enough chocolate I'd start writing up my "chainlinks" for command line arguments. 19:30 < kanzure> wrap each argument into a 'chainlink' (the subunit of a chain, whatever you call that) 19:30 < kanzure> and then evaluate a 'loop' or 'chain' to see if all of the links "add up" or are compatible (i.e., some are mutually exclusive) 19:30 < kanzure> (logic inference engine) 19:32 < kanzure> No. Not inference. Nevermind. 19:56 < fenn> And you know (you’ve got to know!) that this is going to turn into an obsession. First, you’ll completely forget to take the dog out. It’ll be standing by the screen door, darting its head about, as your eyes devour the code, as your fingers slip messages to the computer. 19:56 < fenn> Thanks to your neglect, things will start to break. Your mounds of printed sheets of code will cover up your air vents. Your furnace will choke. The trash will pile-up: take-out boxes you hurriedly ordered in, junk mail you couldn’t care to dispose of. Your own uncleanliness will pollute the air. Moss will infest the rafters, the water will clog, animals will let themselves in, trees will come up through the foundations. 19:56 < fenn> But your computer will be well-cared for. And you, Smotchkkiss, will have nourished it with your knowledge. In the eons you will have spent with your machine, you will have become part-CPU. And it will have become part-flesh. Your arms will flow directly into its ports. Your eyes will accept the video directly from DVI-24 pin. Your lungs will sit just above the processor, cooling it. 19:56 < fenn> And just as the room is ready to force itself shut upon you, just as all the overgrowth swallows you and your machine, you will finish your script. You and the machine together will run this latest Ruby script, the product of your obsession. 19:56 < fenn> And the script will fire up chainsaws to trim the trees, hearths to warm and regulate the house. Builder nanites will rush from your script, reconstructing your quarters, retiling, renovating, chroming, polishing, disinfecting. 19:57 < fenn> Mighty androids will force your crumbling house into firm, rigid architecture. Great pillars will rise, statues chiseled. You will have dominion over this palatial estate and over the encompassing mountains and islands of your stronghold. 19:58 < kanzure3> "And so was born the Second Law of the Civilized Worlds, which was that Man could not stare too long at the faces of the Computer or her children, and still remain as Man." 20:01 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/Lain's-Room-001.jpg 20:08 < kanzure> I always find it remarkable how well others are able to describe my life without knowing me. 20:24 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@host86-157-24-150.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36 < kanzure> why are refridgerators made so that you have to do a lot of stupid things to get to the stuff in the back 21:36 < kanzure> why not just use the kitchen island as a refridgerator? like a giant cooler (except with a partially sliding top, instead of letting out all of the cool air) 21:57 < kanzure> (the point is that a sliding top, plus sliding layers, could allow a robotic arm to process standardized tv dinners or other thingies) 23:04 -!- PeerInfinity [i=PeerInfi@stnbmb01bbk-ac07-60-48.dial.mts.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:07 -!- PeerInfinity [i=PeerInfi@stnbmb01bbk-ac07-60-48.dial.mts.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15 < kanzure3> http://www.schweikhardt.net/man_page_howto.html man howto. just some basic stuff. 23:35 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/Case%20Studies%20in%20the%20Use%20of%20Design%20Repositories%20in%20Mechanical%20Engineering.pdf Case studies in the use of design repositories in mechanical engineering 23:44 < kanzure3> http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=J10XQ3kf7r0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA141&dq=%22Why+objects+are+not+enough%22&ots=EGmhMmZ-0d&sig=uaCQY1N5zKWzbMuZMvUhknd-_Bo Why objects are not enough 23:47 < genehacker> so Kanzure I want to do some transcranial direct current stimulation 23:48 < kanzure> I know less about that than transcranial magnetic stimulation. 23:48 < genehacker> I am having trouble figuring out how to get 35 cm sq electrode stuck to my head 23:49 < genehacker> that's pretty big 23:49 < kanzure> well, they usually do caps 23:49 < kanzure> other times, I've seen them use those 'suction cups' that moms use for bath tubs for young kids 23:49 < kanzure> except not for suction 23:50 < kanzure> Wasn't there an article that we were talking about in here where someone attached electrodes via a paper clip or thin needle? 23:50 < kanzure> it's the same principle as sticking a sowing needle through the very fine layers of your thumb and not really feeling anything 23:50 < genehacker> well check to see if you have any papers 23:50 < genehacker> or acupuncture? 23:51 < kanzure> heh, acupuncture but through the skull? no thanks :) 23:51 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/ 23:51 < kanzure> but most of that is MEA stuff. 23:51 < genehacker> http://www.magstim.com/magstimdcstimulator.html 23:51 < genehacker> commercial unit 23:53 < genehacker> how the heck do I get contact with the skin on my head 23:53 < kanzure3> go bald. 23:53 < kanzure3> ooh, fenn - http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/A%20port%20ontology%20for%20conceptual%20design%20of%20systems.pdf 23:53 < genehacker> I really don't want to 23:54 < kanzure3> a port ontology for the conceptual design of systems 23:54 < kanzure3> genehacker: well, if you knew absolutely that it would work, would you do it? 23:54 < kanzure3> because you might as well just test with a hand 23:54 < kanzure3> *would you do it (it = go bald) 23:54 < genehacker> what electrically stimulate my hands? 23:55 < kanzure3> well the neurons in particular :) 23:55 < genehacker> they call that TENS 23:55 < genehacker> tDCS is a bit different 23:56 < genehacker> tDCS allow neurons to fire at lower activation potentials