--- Day changed Sat Jan 31 2009
00:00 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun
00:00 < genehacker> unrelated
00:00 < genehacker> when you read it, you'll **** bricks
00:02 < fenn> you must be shitting me
00:03 < fenn> Toyota is NOT the reason we have "open source"
00:03 < fenn> and you've mixed a metaphor or something
00:03 < fenn> memes reproduce by transferring from one mind/culture to another
00:03 < genehacker> NO TOYOTA IS NOT THE REASON WE HAVE OPEN SOURCE
00:04 < fenn> so horizontal meme transfer would be like a meme splitting in two inside one mind? (wank)
00:04 < genehacker> they do something similar to open source for the same reason it is good
00:05 < genehacker> or transfer between Toyota cells in this case
00:05 < fenn> please take your disgusting worldview elsewhere
00:06 < genehacker> well think about it fenn toyota, walmart, target, macdonald's, burger king, all function like highly specialized units. 
00:07 < genehacker> some even follow similar developmental patterns
00:07 < fenn> corporations don't create people
00:07 < fenn> they merely exploit them
00:07 < genehacker> for example, you always tend to find MacDonalds by a road, not out in the middle of nowhere
00:07 < genehacker> yeah
00:08 < genehacker> but they do exhibit the capability to grow, and spread
00:09 < genehacker> but really look at it fenn, macdonalds behave almost like cells
00:10 < genehacker> albeit cancerous ones
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00:13 < genehacker> macdonald's and such don't follow a body plan
00:18 < genehacker> which is too bad, cuz I'd like to see cities self-organize into arcologies,
00:24 < genehacker> now then what happens when you introduce non-specialized cells into the system, capable of doing much more than the specialized ones
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01:15 < genehacker> oh crap I just posted philosophy
02:12 < UtopiahGHML> genehacker: Knowledge Management is like a 10 years old discipline now.
02:13 < UtopiahGHML> (doesn't necesseraly have a well define paradigm and is effective though but... it exists and people make money out of it.)
02:13 < genehacker> I'd say even older
02:14 < UtopiahGHML> yep, 2009, guess way older, anyway my point is, that provides a framework to analyze what you describe I think
02:15 < genehacker> yeah I guess so
02:15 < genehacker> for anyone who is still up, here's an interesting tidbit: http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/Poisson.html
02:15 < genehacker> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2D61538F937A25757C0A961948260
02:17 < UtopiahGHML> never heard of Jaron Lanier before , checking out his work
02:18 < UtopiahGHML> oh yeah the dread lock guy :P
02:19 < UtopiahGHML> ok ok CS IA/VR from Berkeley
02:23 < fenn> i've been reading his column in discover magazine, looks like he gets into all sort of stuff
02:23 < UtopiahGHML> yes, Ive read few things from him on Edge.org and few other sites but to be honest, none of his "work" papers, mostly philosophical point of views (even if highly articulated I admit)
02:28 < UtopiahGHML> random thought : anybody read a paper on simulation to design the most effective religion for mass control? like using game theory + multi agent-system for with evolutionary ethics having for fitness the number of followers? sth along those lines?
02:29 < fenn> sounds like something you might have read on SL4
02:30 < UtopiahGHML> is there a way to search SL4 archives?
02:32 < UtopiahGHML> ok, got other things to do, guess I won't design my new religion today then
02:33 < fenn> i'm not terribly disappointed
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02:55 < kanzure> hm, awake yet again
02:57 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: to search sl4 archives, use site:sl4.org <search term>.
02:57 < UtopiahGHML> right, didn't think about using google archive, thx
02:57 < kanzure> fenn, what the hell was genehacker smoking?
02:58 < kanzure> isn't he anti open source still anyway?
02:58 < genehacker> I don't smoke kanzure
02:58 < genehacker> I like my lungs too much
02:58 < kanzure> rather attache to them, huh
02:59 < kanzure> *attached
02:59 < kanzure> oh, I know what it reminded me of
02:59 < kanzure> that old cult, organelle
03:00 < kanzure> Okay. Back to sleep for me.
03:01 < genehacker> I think you or your clone are posting on 4chan
03:03 < genehacker> I'm working on this. I'm building a "real-life tech tree" in software (linking together encyclopedia-like summary articles, dependency graphs (eg "sand unlocks glass"), location-sensitive resource extraction (eg can't find whateversulfite minerals in southeast north america), etc.). Slowly, though. It's just me, and my shitty php/mysql-skills, and my greater affinity for physical action and...
03:03 < genehacker> ...the outdoors, and my dozen other projects...
03:03 < genehacker> IF THIS INTERESTS ANYONE, you could help by: 1) finding the tech-tree info for some tech you have an interest in, and 2) doing it yourself - a million-times better and faster - instead of me.
03:03 < genehacker> /quasithreadhijack
03:03 < kanzure> post a link to me.
03:03 < kanzure> or open manufacturing
03:03 < genehacker> http://img.4chan.org/r9k/res/2971302.html#2971535
03:03 < kanzure> um
03:03 < genehacker> it's on 4chan
03:03 < kanzure> wow, that came out wrong
03:04 < genehacker> turn off images
03:04 < kanzure> "post a link [to him] to me"
03:04 < kanzure> that's still wrong, let me go again
03:04 < kanzure> "post a link [to him] to me [for him]"
03:05 < genehacker> also talks about basement semiconductors
03:06 < genehacker> 4chan of all places
03:06 < kanzure> genehacker: you'll find that many of our brightest are on 4chan
03:07 < kanzure> SomethingAwful and 4chan have played central roles in my life, as awkwardd as that sounds
03:07 < genehacker> really?
03:07 < kanzure> *awkward
03:07 < kanzure> yes
03:07 < kanzure> the Singularity Institute research group was actually being ran by a ringleader guy who was a SomethingAwful goon
03:07 < genehacker> You are kidding me
03:07 < kanzure> and even before that, back to 2003, and 2004, I had some 4chan connections
03:07 < kanzure> no.
03:08 < genehacker> I have just started posting on 4chan
03:09 < kanzure> I was surprised to learn that fenn didn't have a 4chan background, actually
03:09 < kanzure> I used to waste quite a lot of my time on that server :/
03:18 < kanzure> I wonder when Monroe is going to publish his xkcd graphs in arxiv.
03:19 < genehacker>     Awesome, thanks for the links!
03:19 < genehacker>     Basement semiconductors:
03:19 < genehacker>     http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeriellsworth/
03:19 < genehacker>     http://www.vimeo.com/jeri
03:19 < genehacker>     BONUS: by a cute, intelligent (autodidactic), red-head.
03:19 < genehacker>     (If anyone digs up better links, post!)
03:19 < kanzure> genehacker: post Meredith.
03:20 < genehacker> Meredith?
03:20 < kanzure> woman doing amatuer biohacking in her dining room
03:20 < kanzure3> http://www.thesmartpolitenerd.com/
03:20 < kanzure3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_L._Patterson
03:20 < kanzure3> "Meredith L. Patterson is a polymath technologist and science fiction author. She has spoken at numerous industry conferences on a wide range of topics.[1] She is also a prolific blogger and software developer, and a leading figure in the biopunk movement."
03:20 < kanzure3> hahahah
03:20 < kanzure3> "leading figure"
03:21 < kanzure3> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126881.400-genetic-manpulation-now-becoming-a-hobby.html?full=true&print=true
03:21 < kanzure3> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iRSS0kTpewoh8MnLmbxkQsCBWfUwD95A49D00
03:21 < kanzure3> and then include a link to diybio.org
03:23 < kanzure3> bonus points: married to a best friend of Mr. Bit Torrent himself
03:24 < kanzure3> if you don't post it, I will :)
03:24 < kanzure3> <--- is a karma whore
03:29 < genehacker> uh just posted a non ideal post
03:29 < genehacker> heh don't we all whore karma?
03:29 < genehacker> http://www.vimeo.com/2643624
03:34 < fenn> eh where do you go about getting these wafers?
03:34 < kanzure> Circuit Girl doesn't seem to be doing anything in her basement but playing with arcade machines
03:34 < kanzure> which is fine of course, but still
03:35 < fenn> stuff! http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeriellsworth/sets/72157607161498665/
03:38 < kanzure> maybe if you waive your arms around fast enough, it will appear like actual work is being done
03:40 < genehacker> you buy them fenn
03:41 < genehacker> unless you got a way to grow em....
03:41 < genehacker> wonder if there is a way to have biology make them
03:42 < fenn> yeah, oysters.. hah
03:43 < kanzure> GRG runs around the globe confirming 110+ age longevity claims,
03:43 < kanzure> we need something like that for "confirmed polymaths"
03:43 < kanzure> except not 'tested' per-se.. something Other
03:43 < kanzure> just would be a fun list to have
03:50 < fenn> huh the wafers are a lot cheaper than i expected http://cgi.ebay.com/6-inch-Silicon-Wafer-Dummy-Grade_W0QQitemZ320297218437QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
03:50 < fenn> oh min qty 1000
03:50 < fenn> hmmm
03:53 < fenn> still seems you can find them in small qty for a couple hundred bucks
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06:07 < fenn> The U.S. Navy has developed a flight suit for helicopter pilots that delivers little puffs of air on the side of the pilot’s body as his helicopter tilts in that direction. The pilot responds to the puffs by tilting away from them, and the suit passes those signals on to the helicopter’s steering controls. Pilots who train with this system can learn to fly blindfolded or to carry out complex maneuvers, such as holding the helic
06:08 < fenn> magazine article from The Future!!
06:08 < fenn> 2009/feb
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10:31 < UtopiahGHML> Potomac, MD, to develop a beta biomass engine system which will be used to power RTI's Energetically Autonomous Tactical Robot (EATR(TM)), a project sponsored by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), Defense Sciences Office.  http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS141880+28-Jan-2009+MW20090128
10:36 < fenn> does it eat slugs?
10:36 < UtopiahGHML> according to CyberpunkReview it could potentially eat PETA members ;)
10:37 < UtopiahGHML> (joke about robots going vegan and stuff)
10:38 < fenn> "radial six-cylinder, 16HP Waste Heat Engine" seems kinda overkill
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11:02 < fenn> "Hikkikomori Quest" (a near-farcical parody of the Pokemon Game Boy games) in which the protagonist is flamed on 4-chan then goes to the shop to buy food due to the act that he ran out but also to prove to himself that he can go outside and come back home in one piece.
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11:47 < ppk> do any of you guys download your textbooks online?
11:49 < kanzure> yes
11:50 < ppk> what do you use?
11:50 < ppk> I'm trying to get "Molecular Genetics of Bacteria "
11:51 < kanzure> oh, you're in luck
11:51 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Molecular_Genetics_of_Bacteria
11:51 < kanzure3> oops: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Molecular_genetics_of_bacteria
11:52 < kanzure3> sorry, got the name wrong.
11:55 < fenn> O-o
11:55 < fenn> i had that book
11:56 < fenn> gave it to a nursing student
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11:56 < kanzure3> http://sproutward.org/ <- Alec Resnick in disguise
11:56 < kanzure3> http://blogs.thesprouts.org/
11:57 < pppk> bryan, how do you access the chapters?
11:57 < kanzure3> magic. one sec.
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11:58 < kanzure> I don't think I have it on the server. Sorry. :-(
11:58 < fenn> gee does boston really need another hardware hacking space?
11:58 < pppk> shoot
11:58 < kanzure> nublabs, fablabs, diybio, any others?
11:59 < kanzure> NY has NYCresistor, but that's irrelevant I guess
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12:00 < fenn> uh, some other mit-ish thing i cant remember
12:00 < kanzure> media lab? :p
12:00 < kanzure> but MIT doesn't count- I'm sure they have 20x machine shops on campus
12:01 < fenn> hmmers or something
12:01 < fenn> electronics mostly
12:02 < fenn> say, this looks rather familiar http://www.nublabs.org/
12:03 < kanzure> hrm
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12:04 < kanzure> I should go call Alec out on this
12:05 < fenn> Mechpy is a Python package to make the process of designing and building constrained, mechanical systems easier. Eventually, we'd like to hook mechpy up to existing catalogues of mechanical parts and assemblies to make designing for available materials a matter of process, rather than a point of friction in the design process.
12:05 < kanzure> blah
12:05 < kanzure3> http://github.com/aresnick/nub.mechpy/tree/master
12:05 < kanzure3> gee, thanks alec for not mentioning it
12:06 < fenn> i wonder if nublabs is just changing names
12:22 < kanzure> what the fuck
12:22 < kanzure> that was the CIA?
12:25 < fenn> heh
12:26 < fenn> not what you expected?
12:28 < kanzure> I don't know if handing myself over to the CIA is on my todo list
12:31 < fenn> handing yourself over?
12:31 < fenn> just think of the databases you could access! :)
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12:47 < kanzure3> http://doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=f7an36ght5h93tqu
12:47 < kanzure3> doodle works out pretty well for lab meetings.
12:50 < fenn> daytimer bias inherent in the software.. sheesh
12:50 < kanzure3> the professor had me remove the other hours, sorry
12:51 < kanzure3> personally most of my free time is after 6 pm these days :) but apparently that's not a good time for a lab meeting, even though we all live on campus?
12:51 < fenn> why add artificial constraints I always say
12:52 < fenn> hey at least it's plain html
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> ppk: I was using textbooktorrents till it died :/
12:58 < fenn> huh. can you scan and return a textbook right after you buy it?
12:59 < fenn> (btw was there ever any evidence for alec's mythical book scanner?)
13:01 < UtopiahGHML> (now I just use Bitme and isohunt but Id like to have more information on the ebook group Elohim, they seem to release a lot of recent material including some interesting Springer books)
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13:11 < fenn> wow bitme sounds just awful
13:12 < fenn> does it actually work?
13:13 < fenn> majecki on flakk.org #bookwarez/#bw used to be great, gone now though
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> yep but you don't have 0day content so doesn't really worth the trouble, few blogs for ebooks are better
13:14 < UtopiahGHML> but if you need some educational videos, and quickly, bitme is ok
13:14 < kanzure> I don't understand 0day torrents. how do they sustain themselves if people (like me) can't figure out where to submit 0days?
13:14 < fenn> it's linked into the warez irc channels somehow
13:14 < kanzure> rizon, perhaps
13:15 < UtopiahGHML> well torrent is just a way, you still have scene releases
13:15 < fenn> scene releases?
13:15 < kanzure> What?
13:16 < UtopiahGHML> yep, according to quality rules with nfo and a defined information stream
13:16 < kanzure> ?
13:16 < UtopiahGHML> by teams
13:17 < UtopiahGHML> "old school warez"
13:17 < fenn> i've never heard that phrase before
13:17 < UtopiahGHML> the scene? really?
13:18 < fenn> oh, "the scene"
13:20 < UtopiahGHML> like http://nfodb.net/section_7_ebook_nfo.html with groups
13:22 < fenn> wonder why they put the publisher on everything.. taunting them
13:23 < UtopiahGHML> becaues they have to, it's "the rules" of "the scene" :P
13:23 < kanzure> this still doesn't tell me how to up-push a 0day to the right people
13:23 < fenn> stupid rules
13:24 < UtopiahGHML> well if you have pre-released material you should contact a team (like ELOHiM or DDU for ebooks) that's what they are for, to deliver
13:24 < kanzure> huh? These teams accept submissions?
13:25 < kanzure> Do you know of any others?
13:25 < UtopiahGHML> ideally you'd check sth like http://dupe-hq.info/index.php?search=Ebook. and see which one best fit your material 
13:26 < kanzure> yay
13:26 < kanzure> I'll get to that when I'm done with this episode of Haruhi.
13:26 < fenn> hah
13:26 < UtopiahGHML> usually inside the .nfo they leave some contact info
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13:41 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/893?ref=rss "The images showed users doing typical tasks on their systems, but the company easily picked out four screenshots that showed malware analysts running advanced tools to reverse engineer the program." :P
13:44 < fenn> reminds me of spy vs spy in mad magazine
13:45 < fenn> Among the images viewed by SecureWorks were screenshots that showed a user searching for pornography of underaged girls, Stewart said. The company referred the case to the FBI.
13:45 < fenn> i think that would take some serious lawyering
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14:42 < kanzure3> Age 108: first reached in 1837
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 110: first reached in 1898
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 111: first reached in 1925
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 113: first reached in 1928
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 114: first reached in 1987
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 115: first reached in 1990
14:42 < kanzure3> Age 122: first reached in 1997
14:51 < kanzure> http://mechpy.nublabs.org/
14:55 < kanzure3> http://github.com/sproutward/diyhealth/blob/dff4fbd6fbca04ca845e51ba41fea67a66d9a24a/journal.rst  chronic neck pain?
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15:16 < kanzure3> fenn: http://github.com/aresnick/aresnick/blob/4792af83e48082141a895e19ca3bdd8bfdb9a695/Documents/journal.org  what do you think's going on here?
15:16 < kanzure3> the syntax is unfamiliar to me
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15:23 < kanzure3> * DONE [#B] Respond to Bryan Bishop              :grasping: DEADLINE: <2009-01-16 Fri> CLOCK: [2009-01-16 Fri 01:00]--[2009-01-16 Fri 01:19] =>  0:19 - Emailed about faultiness of open source analogy
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15:36 < wrldpc> 429?@rez
15:36 < kanzure3> http://mit.edu/harold/Public/linkage/ "This page provides instructions and Python source code for simulating the behavior of mechanical linkages using Rigidity theory. The software was written to simulate the behavior of transformable Penrose tilings, but is general enough to simulate many planar linkages."
15:38 < kanzure3> http://www.pythonengineering.com/kinematics.html
15:38 < kanzure3> oh, just a brand name, ignore
15:41 < kanzure3>  /home/aresnick/nub/projects/mechpy/solvers/
15:43 < kanzure3> oh, it moved
15:43 < kanzure3> that took forever
15:43 < kanzure3> http://github.com/wbosworth/nub.mechpy/tree/master
15:44 < kanzure3> git clone 
15:44 < kanzure3> git clone git://github.com/wbosworth/nub.mechpy.git
15:45 < kanzure3> hehe, def convert(value, unit_1, unit_2)
15:52 < Utopiah> (potential illustration for DNA work http://www.bobbiecarlylesculpture.com/images/SelfMadeMan.jpg )
15:53 < kanzure3> http://blogs.sun.com/hinkmond/resource/images/Drawing-Hands-M-C--Escher-180592.jpg
15:53 < kanzure3> http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/shanewillis.jpg
15:54 < kanzure> Utopiah: I wouldn't mind having that sculpture sitting on my desk as a paperweight.
15:54 < Utopiah> yep made me think of Eschers drawing hands too 
15:55 < Utopiah> (didn't know the tech versoin though)
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16:34 < wrldpc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoCQ9WcKAUM
16:36 < wrldpc> Geordi cleaning house sans visor.
17:06 < kanzure3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_satisfiability_problem
17:10 < kanzure3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_equivalence_checking "Formal equivalence checking process is a part of electronic design automation (EDA), commonly used during the development of digital integrated circuits, to formally prove that two representations of a circuit design exhibit exactly the same behavior."
17:12 < kanzure3> http://www.doulos.com/knowhow/psl/
17:14 < kanzure3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_algebra
17:25 < kanzure3> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=400508 "Dependency analysis in constraint negotiation"
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18:01 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/Inference%20in%20a%20mechanical%20design%20compiler.pdf  <-- fenn, 1989 paper. non-geometric constraints considered (i.e., torques)
18:02 < kanzure3> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?num=100&hl=en&lr=&cites=8734708539492621535
18:03 < kanzure3> neat, there's a book on mechanical design compilers (by the same name)
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19:05 < PeerInfinity> so, um... hi again :)
19:09 < PeerInfinity> please excuse my ignorance, but is there a hplusroadmap wiki?
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22:24 < genehacker> kanzure any website out there with dimensions of tube fittings?