--- Day changed Tue Feb 03 2009
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00:33 < genehacker> Ask them what they're selling it for?
00:34 < genehacker> if they say $100
00:34 < genehacker> then it's probably a used one
00:38 < genehacker> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8b162dfc-f168-11dd-8790-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
00:38 < genehacker> Ray Kurzweil's making a Singularity university
00:38 < genehacker> wooo
01:07 < kanzure3_> why is that good
02:39 < kanzure> hah, $25k
02:40 < kanzure> ok, I need to go yell at Ray.
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06:47 < fenn> heh regarding etchant disposal "I just throw it in our pool. Copper is used as an algaecide and the amount added is hundred of times more than any board etchant I might use."
06:48 < fenn> or: "You can always dehydrate it and make rocket fuel out of it. "
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07:52 < kanzure> looks like I was wwrong, singularityu.org has CC-licensed content or something
07:52 < kanzure> but I do notice a striking lack of manufacturing information/research on the site, like always
07:52 < kanzure> nanotech-or-bust, seems to be the common thought amongst Ray
08:05 < kanzure> yay projectw.org is back in action
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11:01 < kanzure> http://mydaughtersdna.com/
11:01 < kanzure> sounds like the beginning to a good porn career, but alas
11:03  * fenn wonders how long til there's a whole earth catalog torrent
11:05 < fenn> whatever happened to libraries?
11:05 < fenn> i should be able to get a library card and access online versions of all of their books
11:06  * fenn goes job hunting (job squatting?)
11:07 < kanzure> job economy: the status of an economy built around the transfer of "jobs" units.
11:07 < kanzure> I bet some of the resume websites are doing backend "job trading" with other resume sites
11:07 < kanzure> and if they aren't, they are stupid
11:07 < fenn> surprised google hasn't gotten into the resume game yet
11:07 < fenn> afaik
11:08 < kanzure> apparently searching information doesn't include searching for the best talent
11:08 < kanzure> oh god. SEO..
11:08 < kanzure> (already happens for resumes, but still.)
11:09 < kanzure3_> http://nhpr-sc.streamguys.us/listen.pls   Mac & mydaughtersdna.com guy. 
11:09 < kanzure3_> per the email to diybio earlier this morning
11:10 < nsh> kanzure, do you have a list of feeds you subscribe to?
11:11 < kanzure3_> http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/2007-12-20.opml
11:11 < kanzure3_> old, but html: http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/2007-10-30-feeds.html
11:12 < nsh> thanks
11:13 < kanzure3_> this is a pretty nice stream. Just starting to talk about Hugh Reinhoff.
11:29 < nsh> who's talking for diybio?
11:30 < kanzure> Mackenzie Cowell
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11:41 < kanzure> So that went ok. Hugh sounds like he needs to learn about Amazon's Mechanical Turk, or to meet a programmer
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11:45 < kanzure> So that went ok. Hugh sounds like he needs to learn about Amazon's Mechanical Turk, or to meet a programmer
11:46 < bkero> Such basic concepts so foreign to people
11:48  * bkero gets to hear his software engineering teacher talk about how awesome google is, and how their business model works(even though he has no idea)
11:48 < bkero> Look!  The interface is basic and uncluttered.  I bet they have fine rules and guidelines on that.
11:54 < nsh> can anyone access http://www2.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/ICDM.2006.114 ?
11:56 < kanzure3_> I can get it to you in about four hours (I know, I know, schedules suck)
11:57 < nsh> ok thanks, i'll ask again if i still need it
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12:38 < nsh> wotcha listening to now?
12:38 < nsh> (got that pdf in the end)
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14:39 < ppk> howdy
14:46 < AlonzoTG> om
14:47 < nsh> what's up?
14:47 < AlonzoTG> installing kde4, getting ready for a reboot, in about 17 minutes or so.
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14:55 < fenn> 10
14:55 < fenn> 9
14:57 < fenn> 8
14:57 < fenn> 7
14:58 < fenn> alonzo hurry!
14:58 < fenn> 6 minutes to reboot!
14:59 < fenn> time goes quick on the net
15:09 < AlonzoTG> gotta set a few more things up.
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15:35 < fenn> oh my god i'm so trapped in this body it hurts
15:35 < fenn> somebody get me outta here!
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15:45 < gene> http://fromthedeskofthemayor.blogspot.com/2009/02/world-crisis-charts-fed-into-microsoft.html
15:45 < gene> hahahahahaha
15:46 < Utopiah> lol
16:21 < kanzure> Blargh
16:21 < fenn> indeed
16:45 < kanzure3_> http://botropolis.com/2009/02/cloaca-no-5-the-machine-that-drops-a-deuce/ another robo feces machin
16:45 < kanzure3_> *machine
16:45 < kanzure3_> blah, I need a personal assistant.
16:46 < kanzure3_> I wonder if I can take out a loan in a bank to just buy a person for me
16:48 < fenn> you can hire indians over the internet.. i read about it in "4 hour workweek"
17:03 < kanzure> Gordon Novak emailed me re: the F/OSS competition and SKDB.
17:04 < fenn> what did he say?
17:04 < fenn> "submit something!"?
17:04 < kanzure> I did submit something
17:04 < kanzure> (1) substantial user base would be really useful in order to assess impact
17:04 < kanzure> (2) need to clearly separate who coded what
17:04 < fenn> some code wouldnt hurt either :)
17:04 < kanzure> but in this case, the repo clearly shows you wrote everything
17:05 < kanzure> right :)
17:06 < kanzure> also, I have no time these days :( but clearly it's obvious that the inventory list should be turned into a directory of mock packages with mock metadata 
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17:07 < fenn> mock schmock
17:08 < fenn> it's inaccurate enough already as it is
17:08 < fenn> i'm going to be doing an inventory of _my_ stuff soon enough here
17:08 < fenn> and then i'll know what i have :)
17:20 < kanzure> Stem cell engineering for regenerative medicine; 9 am BME 3.204, Dr. Fan Yang; Feb 5 (Thursday)
17:21 < fenn> so is obama shoveling money at stem cell research yet?
17:22 < kanzure> there was a few things in the news recently, though not because of money shoveling (seemed just to be "yay we can come out of the closet")
17:22 < fenn> looks like "he's thinking about it"
17:22 < fenn> too busy campaigning earlier i guess
17:23 < kanzure> I have always found it annoying that nobody kept full track of all videos, speeches, conferences etc. during a campaign trail of presidential candidates
17:23 < kanzure> if I want to grep through all of his speeches for a specific word, by god I should be able to
17:23 < kanzure> ain't the dark ages.
17:23 < fenn> i didnt even listen to any of his speeches, but i voted anyway
17:24 < fenn> oh i lied.. i watched the iowa primaries celebration speech
17:25 < fenn> yeah anyway..
17:25 < fenn> i dont think i'm gonna be getting this job a "wonderlab"
17:25 < fenn> wonderlab is a children's science-y museum
17:26 < fenn> given that there are five other applicants, three of whom are "directly qualified" (i'm not, apparently) is it worth applying
17:26 < fenn> why can't i just go do cool stuff whenever i feel like it
17:26 < fenn> i swear, schedules are the death of progress
17:27 < kanzure> shh! stop talking, I have to spend time on overhead for schedule management so that I can schedule in some progress
17:27 < kanzure> "if you don't schedule progress, how will it happen?"
17:27 < fenn> 1804 1824 whining at bryan
17:28 < kanzure> "throwing virtual fish at bryan"
17:28 < kanzure> I see.
17:28 < fenn> i'm listening to alec's talk about setting up an un-school
17:28 < kanzure> he has a talk?
17:28 < fenn> mit.edu/bosworth/Public/nubtalksRecordings/alec_resnick.mp3
17:29 < fenn> it's very informal
17:29 < fenn> er, unprepared or something
17:30 < fenn> now i'm feeling lame here in bloomington
17:37 < wrldpc> anyone record Mac and Co. on NHPR today?
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17:38 < kanzure> Sorry, no wrldpc :(
17:38 < wrldpc> yikez0rz
17:39 < wrldpc> ::slaps forehead:: curse my nocturnality!!
17:39 < kanzure> Mac freezes up on security issues. I can't blame him, I guess I would too. "Quick! I'm going to hold you responsible for something impossible!" "Uhh. Oh fuck."
17:40 < fenn> need to practice those things, practice practice practice
17:40 < fenn> because reporters are ruthless
17:41 < kanzure> right, but first it would come from the discussions I think, but it hasn't
17:41 < kanzure> I mean, there hasn't been that many discussions to entirely root it out
17:42 < fenn> also it doesnt hurt to redirect to a similar but not exactly equivalent canned scenario
17:42 < wrldpc> 'we' definitely can't let 'them' use us as scapegoats.  i'm confident in the ability of knowledge and reason to evaporate the fear and doubt quite honestly.  ... this is very interesting ... it's recurring and I need to give the entire thing more thought.
17:42 < fenn> "what if someone makes disease X with your stuff"
17:42 < kanzure> fenn: yes, that's what the "mediakits" are for
17:43 < fenn> do these exist yet?
17:43 < kanzure> fenn: that's interesting. "what if you, as a 'university' or 'company', enable somebody to do bad voodoo"
17:43 < fenn> business as usual
17:43 < fenn> don't you know what LLC means?
17:43 < kanzure> 'mediakits'? not yet for diybio: but we could assemble some with creative commons images, some media, sound bites, etc.
17:43 < kanzure> LLC? limited lawyer co-something?
17:43 < fenn> limited liability corporation
17:43 < fenn> essentially you can fuck up the universe and it's not your fault
17:44 < fenn> but if an individual does it, they can be sued to hell and back
17:45 < fenn> i'm thinking something that you can issue people before they get interviewed, like "think about these questions first so you dont sound like a dumbass when you make up an answer on the spot"
17:45 < fenn> and then you can submit it back to the mailing list to incite cyber-riots
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17:54 < Utopiah> ("cyber-riots", makes me think of riots/strikes as low-tech DDoS)
17:56 < fenn> it's rather unfortunate we can't "take back the tubes"
17:56  * kanzure grabs a shovel
17:57  * fenn has quit (connection reset by shovel)
17:59 < kanzure> must have been a huge SPOF.
18:04 < fenn> "he has a business license for scientific research, for which he simply had to go to the town hall, fill out an application, and pay a fee."
18:08 < fenn> i bet they'd raid his basement chemistry lab anyway
18:08 < kanzure> please post a few notes about this to the diybio list re: what needs to be done before interviews, security question prepping, etc.
18:08 < kanzure> blah, I can't type fast enough any more
18:08 < kanzure> what was that drug that lain had? acceleration drug.
18:09 < fenn> i never watched lain
18:09 < fenn> i'm not on diybio either
18:16 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/03_-_stacompos2.dnb_sanodg_mix.mp3  gets good around 0:50 and peters out around 3:45-end
18:16 < fenn> not even sure where that came from
18:18 < kanzure> hm
18:19 < kanzure> I have 3 goons available to me for GIS information hunting
18:19 < kanzure> this is sad, since this is the one area that I wouldn't normally need them
18:19 < kanzure> I'm thinking of giving them some tasks related to figuring out the Google Maps API
18:19 < kanzure> something I could do in an hour, but it would be really great if they would take on some of that work
18:19 < kanzure> could I spontaneously expect that of nonprogrammers?
18:19 < kanzure> hrm
18:20 < fenn> so applying hofstadter's law it should take about 5 days
18:20 < kanzure> and for newbies?
18:20 < fenn> depends on the newbie i guess
18:21 < fenn> is it worth 5 days?
18:21 < kanzure> well, engineers but only because they're in engineering programs
18:21 < kanzure> well they're sitting around doing nothing otherwise
18:21 < fenn> alrighty then
18:22 < fenn> the new xmms doesn't calculate times right
18:23 < fenn> both audacious and the xmms deb package i got from some website
18:23 < kanzure> bug! squish it!
18:28 < kanzure> where'd that Raman spectroscopy paper go?
18:28 < kanzure> where did I mention it
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18:31 < fenn> this? Raman_spectroscopy_1928.pdf
18:31 < fenn> (the original snippet)
18:31 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Raman_spectroscopy_1928.pdf
18:31 < kanzure> found it, posted to diybio.
18:32 < kanzure3_> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/4bb35278daf9fd17
18:32 < kanzure3_> hahah
18:32 < kanzure3_> that has to be one of my most awesome posts
18:33 < kanzure3_> within 5 minutes of Lora's post with a vague mention of Raman spectroscopy as a possible avenue,
18:33 < fenn> the raman paper isnt detailed enough to be useful
18:33 < kanzure3_> I splurge up a post where I "ah yes, I recall the original raman spec paper"
18:33 < kanzure3_> oh crap
18:33 < kanzure3_> fuck fuck fuck
18:33 < kanzure3_> :-(
18:35 < fenn> polarizers are way more feasible than phase contrast
18:35 < fenn> i dunno how much DNA you need to be able to see it though
18:35 < kanzure> what does a polarizer do?
18:35 < kanzure> I know phase contrast, since I recently read up on it
18:35 < fenn> it's like a picket fence that only lets a certain polarization through
18:35 < fenn> so if you have two crossed at 90 degrees the only thing that goes through is something spinning
18:35 < kanzure> fresnel lenses?
18:35 < kanzure> okay, yeah I remember that now
18:36 < fenn> and helical molecules make light start spinning
18:36 < fenn> wish i remembered the name.. circular dichroism is the effect, what's the chemical called?
18:36 < kanzure> if a fresnel lense applies, Superkuh's lense pattern generator would work
18:36 < fenn> optical enantiomer or something?
18:37 < fenn> why is it always easier to remember the hard words
18:37 < fenn> i couldnt find much info on zernicke plates
18:37 < fenn> is it just a single clear ring?
18:38 < kanzure> no, I kept on seeing multiple lenses
18:38 < fenn> er.. multiple plates with a single clear ring
18:38 < fenn> because if so, you could put some acrylic on a lathe and turn away the surface (except the ring) and then draw on it with a sharpie
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18:45 < fenn> DNA naturally absorbs UV in the 260nm range
18:45 < fenn> they dont exactly make LED's for 260nm tho.
18:46 < fenn> or do they!
18:46 < nsh> hrm
18:46 < kanzure> polarizing caps?
18:46 < nsh> or a coating
18:46 < kanzure> blah, just grow some 260 nm GFP (kidding)
18:46  * kanzure needs to find some food
18:46 < fenn> http://www.shop.spectrecology.com/product.sc?productId=114&sourceCode=froogle  only $239 heh
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18:49 < fenn> apparently they are used in backpack water sterilizers
18:49 < fenn> so this should be a good match for a battery powered gadget
18:49 < fenn> i was always annoyed by how big and fugly gel stuff is
18:50 < fenn> all you need is a capillary tube full of agar
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18:51 < nsh> can anyone get http://www.springerlink.com/content/u71g04nl461g3203/ ?
19:00 < fenn> or http://www.jstor.org/pss/3575456 while you're at it
19:03 < kanzure3_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Hydrodynamical%20red-shift%20phenomena%20in%20geophysics.pdf
19:03 < kanzure3_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Absorption%20Spectrum%20of%20DNA%20for%20Wavelengths%20Greater%20than%20300%20nm.pdf
19:04 < nsh> kanzure++
19:07 < gene> backpack water sterilizers?
19:08 < gene> uv ones?
19:08 < gene> or filter ones?
19:21 < fenn> UV
19:43 < fenn> The cuvettes for use in the near UV are made from methacrylate
19:43 < fenn> so that should be easy to get at least
19:44 < kanzure> meredith replied
19:45 < kanzure> heh, twice. "I love this mailing list so much"
19:45 < fenn> aroo
19:45 < fenn> Fenn - if you need access to literature/academic articles, just send
19:45 < fenn> the name of the article to getarticles@googlegroups.com. They'll email
19:45 < fenn> you a PDF of the article for you to read :)
19:45 < kanzure> uh
19:45 < kanzure> well, that's me
19:45 < fenn> d'eaux
19:45 < kanzure> getarticles is mainly done by me.
19:45 < kanzure> but whatever
19:45 < kanzure> happy articling :)
19:49 < gene> this on diybio?
19:49 < kanzure> yes
19:49 < kanzure> in the clonewell electrophoresis article
19:49 < kanzure> thrad
19:49 < kanzure> klasjlasdkjljk s/article/thread/
19:51 < fenn> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/4bb35278daf9fd17
19:52 < fenn> (the thread)
19:54 < kanzure> wait, what?
19:54 < kanzure> I just got an email from James Hogan on behalf of the Seasteading Institute.
19:54 < kanzure> James Hogan .. hrm..
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20:44 < kanzure> Okay.
20:44 < kanzure> It's official.
20:45 < kanzure> <-- Pink Army Admiral.
20:47 < wrldpc> so we're running the electrophoresis with the illuminated gelbox
20:47 < wrldpc> the gelbox is nice but
20:48 < wrldpc> we ran into some power issues early, the samples may not have been concentrated enough or the power issues might've resulted in a lack of diffusion through the gel
20:48 < wrldpc> it might be the gel too
20:48 < wrldpc> unlikely
20:49 < fenn> you dont see anything?
20:49 < fenn> is the gel warm? (are you actually getting current through it)
20:49 < wrldpc> we're past that point.  the buffer was lithium borate  fasterbettermedia.com
20:49 < fenn> uh.. blue band should be visible to naked eye if you have it in your loading buffer
20:50 < wrldpc> it worked famously.
20:50 < wrldpc> the spread is clear
20:50 < wrldpc> and stark you can really trace gradient
20:54 < wrldpc> all of this separate technology needs to be homogenized or modulized.
20:55 < fenn> it's Science(tm)
20:55 < fenn> well, Biology mostly
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20:58  * kanzure paces around happily
21:10 < fenn> what are your orders, sir?
21:15 < kanzure> hijack pinkarmy technical systems for transhumanesque tasks?
21:16 < fenn> hmm arent admirals more of a navy rank? not army
21:17 < kanzure> I've never been te combative type
21:17 < fenn> navy pink, is that a color?
21:17 < kanzure> so anyway, think of it as 'retainer' except not upfront
21:18 < fenn> oh really
21:18 < kanzure> eta <1 year
21:18 < kanzure> lawyering work is finishing up..
21:18 < fenn> so you've progressed beyond pokemon board ranking after all :P
21:18 < kanzure> beyond wha?
21:19 < fenn> eh .. i was a level 30 assassin you know
21:19 < fenn> but nobody paid me for it
21:19 < kanzure> pokemon didn't have level 30 assassins
21:19 < fenn> that's because they're gay
21:19 < kanzure> I'm so confused
21:20 < fenn> sigh..
21:20 < kanzure> sorry, the delight is a bit much
21:20 < kanzure> maybe I'll go take it out on the students I can order around now
21:20  * fenn celebrates with a bowl of pasta
21:20 < kanzure> but don't you always eat pasta?
21:20 < fenn> no i havent had pasta for at least 3 weeks
21:21 < fenn> this is the first time i've cooked something at the new house
21:21 < kanzure> everything working out ok?
21:21 < fenn> eh.. kinda bored and lonely
21:21 < fenn> and cold
21:21 < kanzure> get a programmercat? (monitor cat)
21:23 < fenn> was scooping the olive oil out of the bottle (frozen solid)
21:23 < kanzure3_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kv3mMK7EP8
21:27 < fenn> moral of the story: rockstars get laid, but independent film directors don't
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22:00 < wrldpc> "It's Science."
22:00 < wrldpc> I like that.
22:00 < wrldpc> It's Science™
22:00 < kanzure> in the name of SCIENCE!
22:01 < wrldpc> :)
22:01 < wrldpc> anyone have the link to the chemical etched precision parts?
22:02 < kanzure> to the wha??
22:02 < kanzure> photochemical milling?
22:02 < wrldpc> yeah
22:02 < wrldpc> someone linked an image ~2 days ago
22:02 < wrldpc> Mac said they tried to ask your question on air today but the station cut reinhoff off in the middle of his response :\
22:03 < kanzure> yes
22:03 < kanzure> oh, you were with mac today?
22:03 < kanzure> oh right, you were testing some stuff
22:06 < wrldpc> aye, a new gelbox ... professional style .. plexiglass ... 
22:06 < fenn> wrldpc: http://www.ferret.com.au/odin/images/169243/Chemically-Etched-Precision-Parts-169243.jpg
22:06 < kanzure> was this using the gel box generator?
22:06 < kanzure> the design generator
22:06 < fenn> (i think its a bad picture)
22:09 < fenn> http://www.conardcorp.com/images/EO007.jpg
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23:33 < gene> hmmmm....
23:34 < gene> with a bit of image reducing optics one could easily make very tiny parts
23:34 < gene> using a DMD chip or some transparency sheeting