--- Day changed Thu Feb 05 2009
00:06 < kanzure3_> http://www.greenergadgets.com/index.php/design-competition/ "vote now for your favorite greener gadgets"
00:08 < gene_> so what do you say that just for the heck of it we enter our bioreactor in that campus challenge thign
00:09 < gene_> http://www.greenergadgets.com/index.php/design-competition/
00:10 < gene_> I used to have a problem with one computer I had, it had a primarily plastic case
00:10 < gene_> needless to say, it almost jammed AM radios
00:27 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit []
00:28 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:41 < UtopiahGHML> for the person who shared the link on stigmergic collboration there is also (Springer 2006) http://rapidshare.com/files/165310709/ebook.Stigmergic_Optimization_Studies_in_Computational_Intelligence.3540346899.zip
05:58 < UtopiahGHML> http://biosciences-ashish.blogspot.com/
06:45 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:27 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:54 -!- gene_ [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-183-173.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:08 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
08:15 < kanzure3_> "Control of a system is exercised by the element with the greatest
08:15 < kanzure3_> variety of behavioral responses."
08:15 < nsh> source?
08:15 < fenn> what's that from?
08:15 < fenn> systemantics?
08:15 < kanzure3_> yes
08:15 < fenn> aha. i knew it
08:16 < fenn> because it was totally wrong yet stated confidently
08:16  * nsh smiles
08:16 < kanzure3_> viruses?
08:16 < fenn> gravity?
08:17 < kanzure3_> flap fast enough and you win?
08:18 < fenn> TMI
08:18 < kanzure3_> ?
08:20  * nsh is no longer following
08:23 -!- mind|wandering [n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
08:28 < kanzure3_> http://tropicaldisease.org/ another OSDD-like open source drug discovery project
09:30 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-98.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:05 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-241-187-180.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:52 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
11:06 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit []
11:20 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:38 < kanzure2-> Say, I wonder if it would help the diybio list if we forced everything about security to some alternative list, like diybio-security
11:38 < kanzure2-> or rather,
11:38 < kanzure2-> diybio-fearmongering
11:44 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-98.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:44 -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-98.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:46 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-241-187-180.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:10 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-241-187-180.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:02 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:10 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:34 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:33 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:34 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:35 -!- splicer_ [n=patrik@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:32 < kanzure3_> well now, that's interesting
17:32 < kanzure3_> have just entered the facebook seen for ADL
17:32 < kanzure3_> David, the guy doing automated product disassembly work, lists favorite TV shows as "Neon Genesis Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Love Hina, Muteki Kanban Musume, Samurai Champloo, Ergo Proxy, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱),"
17:34 < gene> haha
17:34 < gene> must be an otaku
17:34 < gene> wonder if I should join the group
17:34 < kanzure> *scene
17:35 < kanzure> he doesn't seem like the type.
17:36 < gene> that's what they say about things like that sometimes
17:37 < gene> automatic product disassembly?
17:37 < kanzure> using graphsynth though :(
17:38 < kanzure> basically, 
17:38 < kanzure> maximizing mass recovered and minimizing the total disassembly time (presumably the unit here is 'steps')
17:39 < gene> what we really need is a piece of software that takes solidworks assemblies, and turns them into commands for how to move robot arms
17:39 < kanzure> do we not have that?
17:39 < kanzure> I mean, that's not terribly hard
17:39 < gene> or maybe just serve as a 'goal' for the robot to do that
17:40 < gene> really?
17:40 < kanzure> can you dig me up a link that describes the solidworks assembly fileformat?
17:40 < kanzure> once you know the file format, you can wire that up into the Robot Research Group's software,
17:40 < kanzure> or in a worst case scenario, I figure we can generate simple instructions like which order things have to go in
17:40 < kanzure> and then at the very end the fine motor detail like forces and stuff
17:40 < gene> I mean have the robot recognize what the finished product is supposed to look like, so if it makes a mistake it doesn't mess  up
17:41 < kanzure> (which is where it gets complicated, but the easy stuff first)
17:41 < kanzure> oh
17:41 < kanzure> that's kind of stupid though
17:41 < kanzure> why not let it do it blind?
17:41 < gene> it's harder to do blind
17:41 < kanzure> how so
17:42 < kanzure> I mean, if you have all of the data up front
17:42 < gene> one of the main costs of automatic assembly is programming the robots
17:42 < kanzure> no, this can be done automatically
17:42 < kanzure> I mean, the programming thereof
17:42 < kanzure> that's what CAM is..
17:42 < gene> what if you drop a bolt? how do you pick it up?
17:43 < kanzure> why would you drop a bolt
17:43 < kanzure> it's supposed to be programmed to not drop a bolt..
17:43 < kanzure> have the bolts coming in via feeder tube to the mechanically actuated arm thingy that screws the bolts..
17:44 < gene> well Kanzure, feeders have to be designed for each bolt, each part
17:44 < kanzure> true, but to some extent the details are only slightly variable between each part
17:44 < kanzure> consider a catalog of bolts
17:44 < gene> hmmm....
17:45 < kanzure> at most, I can imagine variation in a few size dimensions
17:45 < kanzure> anything else though?
17:45 < gene> one robotic arm one part
17:45 < gene> not very efficient
17:45 < kanzure> nobody said that :)
17:46 < kanzure> I thought you knew about workercells
17:46 < kanzure> or robotic arm cells or whatever
17:46 < gene> a dedicated assembly for putting in one part might be more efficient
17:46 < kanzure> that's true of course.
17:46 < kanzure> just saying:
17:46 < gene> so what I am saying is one robotic arm almost all parts
17:46 < wrldpc> does bkero just tape down the penny electrodes?
17:46 < kanzure> (1) it is possible to program robotic arm worker cells to assemble a variety of differenyl dimensioned parts
17:46 < gene> really?
17:46 < kanzure> (2) it is also possible to somewhat automatically generate custom-made assembly jigs thingies
17:46 < kanzure> for #1, see CAM to some extent I guess
17:47 < kanzure> wrldpc: heh, don't know :)
17:47 < gene> I thought workercells need cameras?
17:47 < wrldpc> hehe
17:47 < kanzure> gene: one robotic arm for all parts. I think that's possible, but I'm not sure
17:47 < kanzure> gene: really? cameras?
17:47 < kanzure> hrm
17:47 < gene> yeah
17:47 < kanzure> why would they *need* cameras?
17:47 < gene> to know where the part is
17:47 < gene> to know if something is wrong
17:48 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-241-187-180.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:48 < gene> so you say #1 is possible? Has it been done?
17:48 < gene> is there software to do #1?
17:50 < kanzure> I thought so? CAM software, right?
17:50 < kanzure> but yes, there's been some papers I've recently linked to
17:50 < kanzure> that do automatic assembly instruction generation
17:50 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/ click the "date added" or whatever, and then click it again so that you can order the list of files by most recent
17:50 < kanzure> and then there are a few papers that are obviously related to this theme
17:51 < gene> well then that makes the challenge of building a replicator a lot easier
17:52 < kanzure> how so?
17:52 < kanzure> I mean, that's why we're doing the software that we're doing in here ..
17:52 < kanzure> automatic assembly instructions etc.
17:52 < gene> we don't have to design the jigs
17:52 < kanzure> well, arguably, jigs might be useful in some situations like #2
17:53 < gene> so what does it take to make a robotic arm that can assemble itself from parts?
17:54 < kanzure> it's more important to ask how to make those parts though
17:54 < kanzure> and then if those operations are doable by a robotic arm, etc.
17:54 < kanzure> didn't we already talk about this?
17:54 < kanzure> sometime last year, maybe in October.
17:54 < kanzure> check the logs
17:58 < gene> http://www.motoman.com/products/robots/models/DA20.php
17:58 < gene> jigless assembly
18:02 < gene> hmmm...
18:02 < gene> I think I now have more appreciation for having two arms
18:05 < gene> http://www.eetimes.com/special/special_issues/millennium/milestones/kilby.html
18:10 < gene> http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1964-Hybrid.html
18:10 < gene> more info
18:15 -!- Netsplit hubbard.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kanzure2-
18:18 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kanzure2-
18:22 < kanzure3_> hahah
18:22 < kanzure3_> marc fawzi "I think that in general, you're good at finding information, but as far as your ability to reason, ..."
18:22 < kanzure3_> this guy needs to fall over and die
18:22 < kanzure3_> I have never wished ill harm to anyone
18:22 < kanzure3_> but seriously.
18:24 < gene> φ
18:25 < gene> just figured out unicode
18:26 < gene> oh yeah did you hear the ME 3d printer is broken?
18:26 < gene> :(
18:27 < fenn> whoops.. guess i shouldnt have printed that monkey wrench
18:28 < kanzure> fenn: marc fawzi has invaded the postscarcity/abundance mailing list
18:28 < kanzure> and now claims that I lack reasoning skills
18:29 < kanzure> what in the fuck is going on
18:29 < kanzure> how do I stop this *NOW*
18:29 < kanzure> I've tried talking to Joseph Jackson about Marc
18:29 < kanzure> Paul agrees that Marc is a terrible thing, 
18:29 < kanzure> but this troll is still hurting things
18:29 < kanzure> what do I do?
18:29 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/postscarcity (also, Nathan is apparently now at Factor E Farm)
18:30 < fenn> heh dunno man, i'm just happy he's not on OM anymore :)
18:30 < kanzure> hah
18:30 < kanzure> did you listen to Joseph's talk over the radio?
18:30 < fenn> no
18:30 < gene> this is what the stock market did 	〽
18:30 < fenn> i meant to remind you to dump the stream to disk but i forgot
18:31 < fenn> i think i've heard just about everything there is to hear about "post-scarcity" anyway
18:31 < kanzure> it's true, nothing new was really said
18:31 < kanzure> though this was more for me to see where Joseph was in all of this,
18:31 < kanzure> whether or not he understands etc. and it seems like he does
18:32 < gene> ❶
18:32 < gene> ❷
18:33 < gene> ☣
18:33 < fenn> one way to do robotic assembly without machine vision or feeders is to line up your parts in boxes
18:33 < kanzure3_> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/fastforwardradio  there was a download link for the mp3 but now the page sucks because the site sucks.
18:33 < fenn> gene there are like 30,000 unicode symbols..
18:33 < gene> you can also use laser scanners
18:33 < gene> I know
18:34 < gene> I am surprised they would even have ☣ in there
18:34 < fenn> that looks like crap in xterm
18:34 < gene> or for that matter this ✈▌▌
18:34 < kanzure3_> http://groups.google.com/group/postscarcity/msg/68d88131cf38aa7b
18:34 < kanzure3_> okay, that's it
18:34 < kanzure3_> "Look inside yourself for the answer"
18:34 < kanzure3_> fuck him.
18:35 < gene> is it time to b& him?
18:36 < gene> behold the time cube: ⬔
18:36 < fenn> all i see is a box
18:43 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
18:43 -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-132-243-243.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:02 < kanzure> gene, you going to the robot group meeting tonight?
19:02 < kanzure> I'm trying to get Max More, Natasha, and Amil (or however you spell his name) to go
19:03 < kanzure> hitching a ride with Derek Bridges in his tiny little two-seater truck
19:06 < nsh> are you going to try and pass yourselves off as very realistic cyborgs?
19:06 < nsh> *androids even
19:06 < kanzure> I seem to have already fooled you foolish mortals
19:07 < nsh> i had my suspicions :-)
19:20 < gene> why we do this:
19:20 < gene> http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=613
19:24 < wrldpc> wtf does fawzi do besides philosophize?
19:24 < wrldpc> nvm
20:03 < gene> when's the robot group meeting?
20:04 < gene> if you say today, no
20:05 < nsh> tonight
20:05 < nsh> he said
20:06 < gene> damn
20:24 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has quit []
20:25 -!- wrldpc [n=ben@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:09 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:25 -!- mindspillage [n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:32 -!- splicer_ [n=patrik@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:07 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit []
23:29 < kanzure> Well that was interesting.
23:29 < kanzure> I went to the robot group meeting
23:29 < kanzure> and spontaneously encountered David Treadwell
23:29 < kanzure> quite interesting in person
23:30 < kanzure> I'd put him in the same room with Steve..